rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) - page 290.

ErisDiscordia

legendary

Activity: 1133

Merit: 1163

Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 11:43:30 PM

Seriously... let's make J Bitcoin happen.

(sounds like something the Bitcoin Foundation might give a seed grant to support)

No, don't involve the Bitcoin Foundation. This needs to be crowdsourced via Bitcoin. But great idea, I'm all for it and pledge financial support.

creekbore

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Lazy, cynical and insolent since 1968

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 25, 2014, 12:19:14 AM

Quote from: Peter R on March 25, 2014, 12:05:46 AM

I have a feeling there are more PhDs around here than are letting on…

I assume there are plenty... but if you are uncertain, you can count at least one PhD Bitcoiner right here

Incidentally, I was part of an effort of starting a journal that would be published by Elsevier... I was kind of dismayed by how restrictive it is. Academic journal publishers want to be indexed by Thomson Reuters, and that forces them to conform to fairly exacting standards (page limits, ratios of peer-reviewed to non peer-reviewed content, etc.). Probably not a big deal, but it would be a lot easier to start outside of the traditional academic publishing bureaucracy.

I've done quite a bit of publishing work within academia and would make a couple of points: standards can be exacting but more important is the process of peer-review (and the subsequent questions of who does it and why); lead times are much longer than people envisage and in the fast moving world of crypto this would be an issue; you don't need a Phd to submit or be published in any academic journal although the discipline of gaining one helps with the rigour required.

Siegfried

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on March 25, 2014, 12:44:26 AM

Quote from: Peter R on March 25, 2014, 12:05:46 AM

I have a feeling there are more PhDs around here than are letting on…

I'd say there are a few around. Some of them prefer to be counted among the chattel though. Wink

And a few who would have been PhDs but discovered Bitcoin and decided that it would be a better focus of their efforts than academia.

cAPSLOCK

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 5146

Whimsical Pants

Quote from: Peter R on March 25, 2014, 12:05:46 AM

I have a feeling there are more PhDs around here than are letting on…

I'd say there are a few around. Some of them prefer to be counted among the chattel though. Wink

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1007

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 25, 2014, 12:19:14 AM

...it would be a lot easier to start outside of the traditional academic publishing bureaucracy.

Glad to hear you say that as it would be my preference as well. It fits better with the bitcoin spirit too, I think.

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1007

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:36:05 PM

Quote from: Peter R on March 24, 2014, 11:18:51 PM

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:07:03 PM

There could well be a disconnect from Metcalfe's Law beyond four more years. In say 8 more years, when the quantity of Bitcoin transactions exceed the current quantity of bank card transactions, I find the predicted bitcoin price value of 57 billion USD per bitcoin implausible.

Lol, I was doing the same math earlier today while jogging.

I came to a similar conclusion: we may see up to ~2 more years of growth following Metcalfe's law, putting us at a Metcalfe Value near $50,000 / coin and near 1% market saturation. At some point we must diverge from V~N² growth, otherwise the price projections get ridiculous like you just pointed out.

Metcalfe's Law is based upon the common sense notion that adding nodes to an economic network adds value in proportion to the quantity of other nodes that can be reached. So perhaps at some point the Bitcoin economy develops small world effects in which clusters of nodes are well connected, but otherwise nodes are not as well connected universally. By well connected, I mean economically visible and useful. For example, small world effects are present in the world's email network due to incompatible natural languages.

That's a good point about small-world effects. I guess we'd expect a transition to a linear V~N model if this becomes dominant. Interesting times…

Agree to move discussion regarding J Bitcoin to another thread outside of Speculation sub-forum. I don't think I'll start that thread tonight. J Bitcoin was a group idea, precipitated by Chris's comment about publishing my "Metcalfe Value" observation. Anyone is free to run with the ball...

Bitcopia

hero member

Activity: 715

Merit: 500

Quote from: Peter R on March 25, 2014, 12:05:46 AM

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:48:46 PM

I happen to be the treasurer of an unrelated academic society that has an open-access peer-reviewed online journal. We grant immediate free access to the public and charge authors 100 USD per accepted submission. The publisher is http://www.degruyter.com/ (http://www.degruyter.com/).

Thanks for the info, SlipperySlope. Is the main benefit of publishing through degruyter.com that the you can leverage their website for dissemination of the papers? I wonder what the politics are with a publisher like Elsevier for a touchy subject like bitcoin. Perhaps it may even be preferable to publish independently under the Bitcoin Foundation brand (I don't expect there would be demand or a need for a print edition). A lot to brainstorm about.

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:48:46 PM

I lack a PhD, but helped found an academic society. Perhaps we need an international Cryptocurrency Society for academics, that would hold an annual conference and publish the journal. For this to be accepted we need academics with doctorate degrees in charge.

I have a feeling there are more PhDs around here than are letting on…

Bitcoin should require a PhD of its own.

Also, props on the correlation between Bitcoin and Metcalfe's law. As simple as the concept is, I was unaware.

chriswilmer

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Peter R on March 25, 2014, 12:05:46 AM

I have a feeling there are more PhDs around here than are letting on…

I assume there are plenty... but if you are uncertain, you can count at least one PhD Bitcoiner right here

Incidentally, I was part of an effort of starting a journal that would be published by Elsevier... I was kind of dismayed by how restrictive it is. Academic journal publishers want to be indexed by Thomson Reuters, and that forces them to conform to fairly exacting standards (page limits, ratios of peer-reviewed to non peer-reviewed content, etc.). Probably not a big deal, but it would be a lot easier to start outside of the traditional academic publishing bureaucracy.

SlipperySlope

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 501

Stephen Reed

Quote from: Peter R on March 25, 2014, 12:05:46 AM

Thanks for the info, SlipperySlope. Is the main benefit of publishing through degruyter.com that the you can leverage their website for dissemination of the papers? I wonder what the politics are with a publisher like Elsevier for a touchy subject like bitcoin. Perhaps it may even be preferable to publish independently under the Bitcoin Foundation brand (I don't expect there would be demand or a need for a print edition). A lot to brainstorm about.

Yes, the new model for academic journals is open access. Online is much less expensive and generally more useful for consumers. I do not see a necessity to involve the Bitcoin Foundation. I believe that such a journal should encompass any cryptocurrency, which might be a conflict of interest with regard to the Bitcoin Foundation - or at least outside their focus.

Suppose we start a new thread in the Economics sub forum as this discussion is off topic here and may be deleted anyway by the moderator.

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1007

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:48:46 PM

I happen to be the treasurer of an unrelated academic society that has an open-access peer-reviewed online journal. We grant immediate free access to the public and charge authors 100 USD per accepted submission. The publisher is http://www.degruyter.com/ (http://www.degruyter.com/).

Thanks for the info, SlipperySlope. Is the main benefit of publishing through degruyter.com that the you can leverage their website for dissemination of the papers? I wonder what the politics are with a publisher like Elsevier for a touchy subject like bitcoin. Perhaps it may even be preferable to publish independently under the Bitcoin Foundation brand (I don't expect there would be demand or a need for a print edition). A lot to brainstorm about.

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:48:46 PM

I lack a PhD, but helped found an academic society. Perhaps we need an international Cryptocurrency Society for academics, that would hold an annual conference and publish the journal. For this to be accepted we need academics with doctorate degrees in charge.

I have a feeling there are more PhDs around here than are letting on…

SlipperySlope

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 501

Stephen Reed

Quote from: Peter R on March 24, 2014, 11:53:11 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 11:43:30 PM

Seriously... let's make J Bitcoin happen.

(sounds like something the Bitcoin Foundation might give a seed grant to support)

I'm on board. I think we should gauge community interest over the next while and discuss the logistics of how this could best be accomplished. I like your idea of approaching the Bitcoin Foundation for a seed grant--supporting an academic journal would shine a positive light on them too.

Not much money is needed to start an online open-access journal. I believe the main effort will be to find qualified and motivated academics to edit the journal. They could well be young post-docs.

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1007

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 11:43:30 PM

Seriously... let's make J Bitcoin happen.

(sounds like something the Bitcoin Foundation might give a seed grant to support)

I'm on board. I think we should gauge community interest over the next while and discuss the logistics of how this could best be accomplished. I like your idea of approaching the Bitcoin Foundation for a seed grant--supporting an academic journal would shine a positive light on them too.

SlipperySlope

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 501

Stephen Reed

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 11:43:30 PM

Seriously... let's make J Bitcoin happen.

(sounds like something the Bitcoin Foundation might give a seed grant to support)

I happen to be the treasurer of an unrelated academic society that has an open-access peer-reviewed online journal. We grant immediate free access to the public and charge authors 100 USD per accepted submission. The publisher is http://www.degruyter.com/.

I lack a PhD, but helped found an academic society. Perhaps we need an international Cryptocurrency Society for academics, that would hold an annual conference and publish the journal. For this to be accepted we need academics with doctorate degrees in charge.

chriswilmer

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Seriously... let's make J Bitcoin happen.

(sounds like something the Bitcoin Foundation might give a seed grant to support)

chriswilmer

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Peter R on March 24, 2014, 11:38:02 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 11:25:20 PM

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:23:22 PM

Quote from: Peter R on March 24, 2014, 11:05:17 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 10:34:44 PM

This would make for a great academic paper!

I'm starting to think there is a lot of low-hanging fruit that would make interesting research papers. We need to found J Bitcoin. This forum is useful for brainstorming and vetting ideas, but I think a lot of good work gets lost and forgotten in the noise. It would be useful to publish highly-polished peer-reviewed manuscripts in an archival format accessible to everyone.

See this thread from 2012 ...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cryptocurrency-journal-edit-financial-cryptography-115048

Quote

Looks like the correct search term is "Financial Cryptography".
Also the spring link (http://www.springer.com/generic/search/results?SGWID=0-40109-23-0-0&searchType=EASY_CDA&queryText=Financial+Cryptography+and+Data+Security&sortOrder=relevance&searchScope=books) seems to be the closest thing to something peer-reviewed.

Yes, but a result about Metcalfe's law doesn't need to go in a cryptography journal. It's really an economic result and should go in a journal of economics... it just seems that there is a cultural barrier to overcome at the moment.

Perhaps there actually would be a demand for J Bitcoin. It would be unorthodox in the sense that it would accept papers in all bitcoin-related fields (cryptography, economics, hardware engineering, etc), but I may actually read it! I think if you kept the quality high via a rigorous peer-review process, it may eventually establish itself as the journal for research regarding bitcoin. Chris's colleagues in economics who scoff at bitcoin now will be hoping to get published in J Bitcoin five years hence, lol.

I would read it. Heck, I would volunteer to be an editor (I've been an assistant editor for another journal).

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1007

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 11:25:20 PM

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:23:22 PM

Quote from: Peter R on March 24, 2014, 11:05:17 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 10:34:44 PM

This would make for a great academic paper!

I'm starting to think there is a lot of low-hanging fruit that would make interesting research papers. We need to found J Bitcoin. This forum is useful for brainstorming and vetting ideas, but I think a lot of good work gets lost and forgotten in the noise. It would be useful to publish highly-polished peer-reviewed manuscripts in an archival format accessible to everyone.

See this thread from 2012 ...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cryptocurrency-journal-edit-financial-cryptography-115048

Quote

Looks like the correct search term is "Financial Cryptography".
Also the spring link (http://www.springer.com/generic/search/results?SGWID=0-40109-23-0-0&searchType=EASY_CDA&queryText=Financial+Cryptography+and+Data+Security&sortOrder=relevance&searchScope=books) seems to be the closest thing to something peer-reviewed.

Yes, but a result about Metcalfe's law doesn't need to go in a cryptography journal. It's really an economic result and should go in a journal of economics... it just seems that there is a cultural barrier to overcome at the moment.

Perhaps there actually would be a demand for J Bitcoin. It would be unorthodox in the sense that it would accept papers in all bitcoin-related fields (cryptography, economics, hardware engineering, etc), but I may actually read it! I think if you kept the quality high via a rigorous peer-review process, it may eventually establish itself as the journal for research regarding bitcoin. Chris's colleagues in economics who scoff at bitcoin now will be hoping to get published in J Bitcoin five years hence, lol.

SlipperySlope

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 501

Stephen Reed

Quote from: Peter R on March 24, 2014, 11:18:51 PM

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:07:03 PM

There could well be a disconnect from Metcalfe's Law beyond four more years. In say 8 more years, when the quantity of Bitcoin transactions exceed the current quantity of bank card transactions, I find the predicted bitcoin price value of 57 billion USD per bitcoin implausible.

Lol, I was doing the same math earlier today while jogging.

I came to a similar conclusion: we may see up to ~2 more years of growth following Metcalfe's law, putting us at a Metcalfe Value near $50,000 / coin and near 1% market saturation. At some point we must diverge from V~N² growth, otherwise the price projections get ridiculous like you just pointed out.

Metcalfe's Law is based upon the common sense notion that adding nodes to an economic network adds value in proportion to the quantity of other nodes that can be reached. So perhaps at some point the Bitcoin economy develops small world effects in which clusters of nodes are well connected, but otherwise nodes are not as well connected universally. By well connected, I mean economically visible and useful. For example, small world effects are present in the world's email network due to incompatible natural languages.

chriswilmer

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Quote from: SlipperySlope on March 24, 2014, 11:23:22 PM

Quote from: Peter R on March 24, 2014, 11:05:17 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 10:34:44 PM

This would make for a great academic paper!

I'm starting to think there is a lot of low-hanging fruit that would make interesting research papers. We need to found J Bitcoin. This forum is useful for brainstorming and vetting ideas, but I think a lot of good work gets lost and forgotten in the noise. It would be useful to publish highly-polished peer-reviewed manuscripts in an archival format accessible to everyone.

See this thread from 2012 ...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cryptocurrency-journal-edit-financial-cryptography-115048

Quote

Looks like the correct search term is "Financial Cryptography".
Also the spring link (http://www.springer.com/generic/search/results?SGWID=0-40109-23-0-0&searchType=EASY_CDA&queryText=Financial+Cryptography+and+Data+Security&sortOrder=relevance&searchScope=books) seems to be the closest thing to something peer-reviewed.

Yes, but a result about Metcalfe's law doesn't need to go in a cryptography journal. It's really an economic result and should go in a journal of economics... it just seems that there is a cultural barrier to overcome at the moment.

SlipperySlope

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 501

Stephen Reed

Quote from: Peter R on March 24, 2014, 11:05:17 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on March 24, 2014, 10:34:44 PM

This would make for a great academic paper!

I'm starting to think there is a lot of low-hanging fruit that would make interesting research papers. We need to found J Bitcoin. This forum is useful for brainstorming and vetting ideas, but I think a lot of good work gets lost and forgotten in the noise. It would be useful to publish highly-polished peer-reviewed manuscripts in an archival format accessible to everyone.

See this thread from 2012 ...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cryptocurrency-journal-edit-financial-cryptography-115048

Quote

Looks like the correct search term is "Financial Cryptography".
Also the spring link (http://www.springer.com/generic/search/results?SGWID=0-40109-23-0-0&searchType=EASY_CDA&queryText=Financial+Cryptography+and+Data+Security&sortOrder=relevance&searchScope=books) seems to be the closest thing to something peer-reviewed.

chriswilmer

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Either way... kind of makes you want to HODL doesn't it?

Topic: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;) - page 290. (Read 907212 times)