Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 220. (Read 77449 times)

https://theins.ru/en/news/256042

The glorious, great russia doesn't have any dirty secrets to hide, or does it? 

Could you please stop wall-texting to basically say nothing or state facts that are contrary to what we are seeing?

Again, you have to concede to anyone that is bigger. False, when someone is bigger and you concede you become a slave. You fight, you look for allies and you let the bastard know that there hell to pay for aggression. That is what you are looking at in Ukraine.

Again, you have been living for too long under despots and thieves - you have lost you will to fight and you think the rest of the people are like you.

Russia diplomatic stance has been fucked. Land? It is still yet to see what do they hold to - bearing in mind that the Donbas is not even a rich region.
Europe has been damaged, now it finally gets the incentive needed to diversify energy and suppliers.
US is super happy of fucking Adolf Putin's army.

My apologies if I do not go through all your wall... it is just repetitive and very biased.

Well, it took you long enough to recognize this stuff.

Yes and Biden isn't the US president.  The pope is in jail.  And vaccines are killing everyone that took them.

Putin already won. He took over some 20% of Ukraine. Can he hold it? The answer comes in the form of the missile strikes that he did in Kiev a few days ago. Ukraine is, now, urging its people to cut back on electricity because of these missile strikes. https://www.naturalnews.com/2022-10-13-ukrainian-government-tells-citizens-conserve-electricity.html#. The missiles took out some important Ukraine infrastructure.

In addition, search on "Putin moves troops into Belarus" - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=putin+moves+troops+into+belarus&ia=web. Ukraine wants to play tough? Time to take the kid gloves off.

The missile strikes in Kiev were nothing compared with what's coming. While the West sits on its hands wondering what to do next... to antagonize Russia in such a way that doesn't bring on the nukes... Russia moves to put down all of Ukraine if necessary. And where in the world has the Belgorod gone?

Or maybe Ukrainians just don't want to be in or with Russia, just like nearly all countries in Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet block.

You can yell "cookies" all you want but anyone following politics in the aforementioned countries for the last 30 years could see that these countries had all sorts of issues, pendulum swings left and right, pro- and anti-EU/US/NATO etc, but most still somehow ended up on the western side of the newly-being-erected iron curtain, with exceptions being authoritarian shitholes like Belarus and the like.

There are many good reasons for this, all vividly illustrated now in Ukraine. Who could have know that people might not like to be invaded and ruled by a KGB psychopath. But wait, no, it must be some evil US plot. Maybe Clinton installed Putin back in 1999 and is puppeting him into doing all these evil things.

Or : Sure with the great decisions by our leadership, we still exist as a country, closer to the west with hope of joining EU and eventually NATO,  and don't have to live in a Kleptocracy.


The whole "they should have just let Putin win" is such a stupid argument.

Not sure if your assessment could be anymore wrong. If you really want to solve the problem, you need to start at the root cause of the problem, and not at its symptoms. You cannot box by the rules when the other guy is twice your size and doesn't follow them, that's just not how the real world works. US having a full hegemony put in place some terrible precedence, "operations" instead of wars, private military companies, use of nukes, financial and political coercion of other governments, disregarding international laws, sanctioning international court judges, human rights abuses, bombing of other nations infrastructure without UN etc etc etc... And now when (so far) local conflict touches you personally you cannot possibly act surprised when the world doesn't rise up on your calls that NOW suddenly everyone should start to care about the rules and start changing things   We're back to the ‘For my friends, everything, for my enemies, the law’ logic. Laws either have to be consistent or shouldn't exist. Arbitrary application of laws, double standards and hypocrisy just makes a mockery of the whole system. Biggest players should start following laws before trying to shame others, it's akin of discussing global police abuse and starting with Ukraine while not mentioning police issues in US/Russia/China (cause suchmoon would be yelling whataboutism). It would be obvious to even casual observer that there's agenda at play and Ukraine is being used as a scapegoat.

It's an illusion, Ukraine is not big enough to hold on it's own, so it must submit to one Tzar or the other. Ukraine is already in shackles with A $20 billion programme would be the second largest currently active loan from the IMF after Argentina. All of this is outside of Ukraine's control, and i have nothing but pity for the people, as they're just pawns in this big game. But at the same time when two behemoths are battling it out, I'm very skeptical of any small nation that would willingly make itself into a battlefront proclaiming that it's protecting/fighting for the survival of one of the behemoths. Smart thing would be to stay quiet and watch how it plays out (like almost everyone else is doing). Either Grandiose delusions or people have been brainwashed into doing someone else's bidding by constant propaganda of being "de facto" in NATO and fighting for Poland/NATO/EU/Papua New Guinea/the World. Outcome is already shaping out and this is how it'll be sold to the people:

• Russia-we got more land out of this and kept our dominance on EU resource markets
• US-with only few billion spent and minimal losses we set Russia back some X years
• Europe-WTF just happened!?!
• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!
• China-

Human rights in middle east is shit. But now ask yourself why is it so? Then ask what is the currency in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Jordan, UAE (Dubai), Bahrain, and Qatar? Surely they are not all pegged and completely reliant to USD couldn't be right?? Now ask yourself why there so much human rights abuse in those countries? Is that cause with total financial control US just can't do anything about it? Or because US doesn't want to do anything about it, all of the money it sends there for oil still stays in it's own financial system anyway, which US can later use to offer bigger cookie to Ukrain/Belarus/Kazakhstan/Taiwan countries surrounding other world powers. And people, people just want to live their lives and are easily influence by a talking head on their TV box offering a bigger cookie until suddenly they find themselves fighting for their lives. Now ask yourself how are your proposals for "changes" will break this cycle and prevent this from happening over and over and over... again, or are these just superficial changes really intended to just prolong the current status quo

Lol. It's so funny that you can find evidence of what I have said all over the Internet, but you keep on drawing yourself into the hole of ignorance.

However, it's kinda enjoyable watching the silliness that comes out of your mind and heart.

Irrelevant and also false.

But if you can pop down there and talk to Taliban - maybe you can get those American "armaments" and bring them to your buddy Putin. Then he can personally fly a Black Hawk to Kyiv and declare himself the Grand Duke of Kievan Rus.

Notice that when the US pulled out of Afghanistan, she left far more armaments there than the measly few tanks Putin left when he pulled his troops out of certain areas of Ukraine. Just saying.

Another sorrowful base argument: you cannot change anything, this is the way it works so you have to live with it. You may have been living under a despot for too long to see anything else. Or even a worse one: "since you cannot always implement socially liberal and representative policies, then is better to not do it ever". That is your bottom line.

Yet here we are, people in Ukraine that are not willing to submit to the Tzar. That is real, you have it there. Medieval thinking does not work well in the Internet era.

You view is very partial and certainly you are not discovering anything, just trying to make Adolf Putin's attitude "the only possible course of action" - which certainly is not. You are putting the focus on countries that are ruled by despots because that is what you understand, but most of the developed world is based on representative governments (I do not want to discuss how democratic). And yes, we do have to live with Kings and Tzars and have diplomatic and commercial relations with them, but at least some of us want to press to make those regimes eventually representative.

Whattabout the Kingdom of Arabia? They are using the chance to favour their economy with disregard of their allies. There is price to pay. Nothing to do with their record as slavery and human rights abuse.

Let me ask you a question: How are human resources for construction works organised in Arabia, Oman, Dubai and EA? Do you know how they do it? Do you think "that's the world it is and there is nothing to be done?"

If you had claimed that Russia didn't lose any tanks, a picture of a burning tank would indeed be a good "counter argument", or rather a fact disproving your false claim. In this case a map was such counter-fact. I'll take being cute though, thank you.

As much as it's middle-age thinking you cannot deny that it's current reality. Cuba is still under US blockade just because of it's proximity to US, and US considering sanctions against Saudi Arabia not because they kill journalists and oppress women but because they didn't lower oil price and agreed to buyers cartel before November mid-term US elections (not to mention North Korea, Venezuela, Syria ...). You can even block deliveries of resources between separate countries, Germany even wanted to give US 1bil just for the privilege to turn on NordStream2, pretty savage right? Sorry to break this to you but this is how this cruel world still works, just because it's called soft power doesn't mean it doesn't cost lives, that's the benefit of being the world power and having reserve currency, you literally get to fuck around with anyone on this planet.

Again, an historic argument that does not matter at all because you cannot get out the middle-age thinking of "this belong to Russia", "This territory was Russia when my grandad lived there..." The territories belong to the people who live in them, the fakeferendums can only create fakepublics.

Ukraine is trying to get away from the world of Tzars and Kings that held the land as a personal possession. You need to get on a time machine and get back to the XII century where your brain is. While you wait for it to be invented, you can just travel back in this thread where those arguments have been shown wrong over an over - starting by the fact that the origin of the Rus (modern Russians) is Kiev.


The picture is a clear argument. Russian slave orcs are going to Moscow ... just for a coffee Boris... yes, back in no time.

Try this for starters: Here's Why Sanctions Actually Help Russia - https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/heres-why-sanctions-actually-help-russia/ri41.

Then do searches on various combinations of words that mention benefits for Russia from the sanctions.

I'm not able to follow your logic here, you went from alluding that Russian nukes are non functional to Stalin? Where's suchmoon yelling whataboutism!?!
To reiterate my point, i view this conflict as just further expansion of NATO, or more specifically, US trying to pull Ukraine from Russia's sphere of influence with soft power (handing out freedom cookies during the coup of pro RU president in 2014). Everyone knew that there was no way Russia could compete with US on the soft power field, and that Russia couldn't afford to loose Ukraine, so doesn't take a political think tank to figure out the odds of tanks rolling. Germany and France did a good job and managed to stop Russian tanks from rolling back in 2014 and convinced UA to sign Minsk agreements which would ultimately mean Donbas would stay with Russia. Ukraine agreed, won some time which US used to litter the country with weapons, after receiving all the weapons UA did a 180 turn and started to pretend that now they can take Crimea back. RU finally started to realize that they were played, demanded written guarantees from US that NATO won't expand etc... and US pretty much told RU to fuck off, finally as a last ditch effort to make its intentions crystal clear RU did that idiotic show of force with a column of tanks to Kyiv, we all know how that turned out. So now here we are, was this the desired outcome for EU or RU? Clearly not, as both expected UA to just fold in 3 days of posturing, instead we now have this prolonged conflict ultimately leading to even worse outcome for UA but now with greater lose of life from both sides. On the other hand appears US has so far fully anticipated every move from Russia.

I covered Stalin and Mao in my thread before, the goals of their actions was transformation of their countries' political and economic systems (collectivization etc). Such actions can only be viewed through the cost/benefit analysis, and it is my view that the benefit was not worth the cost, so i'm personally not a fan of Stalin. Unfortunately propaganda tries to deceive the uneducated masses and attempt to draw comparisons to where there was no to limited cost or benefit. Like since Stalin caused death of many people, and Hitler caused death of many people thus Stalin is as bad as Hitler. This leads us to equate tragic loss of life in the name of radical transformations of the whole system to deliberate exterminations with no real benefit and in the name of ethnic/national/racial cleansing and superiority of the Aryan race above all. Even attempts at such horrendous comparisons, should automatically repulse anyone with an IQ higher than a rock.

But back to your point, besides propaganda value I don't see how any of this is even relevant? Trying to compare historical "evilness" is more of a philosophical question, how many deaths of exterminated native Americans is equal to own workers worked to death? Or how many lives of innocent civilians nuked with a press of a button during their sleep equal to farmers starved to death? How many slaves killed just for being an "inferior human being" equal to ideological opponents or enemies of the state frozen at gulags? etc etc etc

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You're cute when you don't have a counter argument   perhaps add a picture of burning Russian tank next time to really drive home your point?

What kind of reverse effect are you talking about? Maybe products have become cheaper in Russia or have they started producing something new? Tell me, please. After all, maybe we in Russia do not know any serious advantages of living here.

And there we go to the same baseline: if Adolf Putin invades Ukraine is not his fault, it is the dark powers of the capitalism that forced him. If he speaks of using the nuclear capacity, it is not his fault, it is somehow Biden's, if he throws nearly 80 missiles in a day is not his fault, it is because he is forced to and so on.

This is becoming ridiculous.

You have to read better?  Or are you saying Colin Powel, or any American intentionally had 100 million people killed and so compared to them Stalin wasn't that bad?