Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 221. (Read 77449 times)

That doesn't explain why delivery of tanks would justify a nuclear response but whatever. I never expected logic from Russian propaganda so carry on.


Makes me wonder if you got confused which thread you're posting in or is it just a larger-than-usual dose of whataboutism.

Anyway, after 8 months of killing predominantly Russian-speaking population it should be clear by now that Putin didn't come there to protect the Russian language but if you want to keep living in that illusion that's fine. For sane people though, all that BS doesn't mean that Ukraine can just roll over and Putin will magically become nice and friendly and will no longer threaten or invade other countries like Georgia or Moldova. That's why Ukraine is being supported in this fight and Russia is becoming a pariah state.


Must've been a long time since you last checked it, let me help you.


(maps from https://liveuamap.com)

Getting paid does not hold you in your position when things get hard. You may ask your slave army about it, they understand that money does not solve everything.

If you do not know where to find them, they are in the road to Moscow.




"Devastating" does not stand for "sanctions" on this case, but something much worse. That is clear to anyone.


Again, playing the saloon geo-strategist - the problem being that this should not be about the ruling elites of RF or US wanting a land grab, but about the future of Ukrainians. Based on the historic attitude of Russia towards anyone that is not Russia and their use an abuse of Ukraine (Chernobyl, Holodomor, burnt land tactics,...), they are better governing themselves, despite having plenty of things to solve.

Of course companies will go back to the RF if they can, once sanctions are lifted and the war ends. What would need to happen for the sanctions to be lifted and the war ended? I will leave it there for you.

You have to count better

http://www.spectrezine.org/global/chomsky.html


"Overcoming amnesia, suppose we now apply the methodology of the Black Book and its reviewers to the full story, not just the doctrinally acceptable half. We therefore conclude that in India the democratic capitalist "experiment" since 1947 has caused more deaths than in the entire history of the "colossal, wholly failed...experiment" of Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, tens of millions more since, in India alone. The "criminal indictment" of the "democratic capitalist experiment" becomes harsher still if we turn to its effects after the fall of Communism: millions of corpses in Russia, to take one case, as Russia followed the confident prescription of the World Bank that "Countries that liberalise rapidly and extensively turn around more quickly [than those that do not]," returning to something like what it had been before World War I, a picture familiar throughout the "third world." But "you can't make an omelette without broken eggs," as Stalin would have said. The indictment becomes far harsher if we consider these vast areas that remained under Western tutelage, yielding a truly "colossal" record of skeletons and "absolutely futile, pointless and inexplicable suffering" (Ryan). The indictment takes on further force when we add to the account the countries devastated by the direct assaults of Western power, and its clients, during the same years."

When you're thinking about all the evil America did in the past decades, and doing those mental triple back flips to get to the place where all those bad things make Russia justified in starting a war with Ukraine, does Stalin ever pop into your head?   The guy just rounded up hundreds or thousands of people at a time...and executed them.  Almost 1 million citizens of his own country were executed.  He intentionally caused multiple famines that killed millions of Ukrainians. 10's of millions of people were murdered on his orders.  

For an American President to come close to matching the amount of pain and suffering that Stalin intentionally caused, they would have to first seize pretty much all political power.  And even then, it would take years to get to the level that Stalin did.  

That hasn't happened yet to America.  It could start to happen some day...but it hasn't yet.  

Appears it's started to happen in Russia though.  

Russia's response to the terrorist attack on the Crimean bridge was quick, but it can hardly be called rash. As a result of massive missile strikes, electrical substations with a capacity of 330 kW were damaged throughout Ukraine. This forced Ukraine to stop exporting electricity to the EU and led to blackouts in many parts of Ukraine, but this is not dramatic damage to critical infrastructure. If 750KW substations had been targeted for strikes, Ukraine would have been plunged into darkness for a long time, and these damages would have been much more difficult to repair. The prospect of meeting winter without electricity, heat, water, light and the Internet is not very tempting. No country can survive winter without heating and electricity, even at minus 5 degrees.

Russia's problem is that it is still conducting a special operation in Ukraine without taking off its white gloves. And Ukraine, in response, is fighting with all its might, not choosing the means to achieve its goals. For the most part, Ukrainians hate Russians, and Russians consider Ukrainians to be a brotherly people. For Russia, this is not an advantageous position, even taking into account its multiple superiority in strength.

Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that tanks have consistently been the top request from UA, which so far has been ignored by US/EU? Oh we can't have them? Well, then we never wanted them anyway  

Sure, powers will always want to expand their spheres of influence, Russia might want Mexico but just like US wanting Ukraine, doesn't mean they should get it. (And that's the reason why China's claims on Taiwan are inevitable and only a function of time. No first world power would tolerate 2nd world power in their backyard from across the globe [see Cuba]) And if Russia is depleting they military reserves by sending them to Mexico i'd be in here arguing that Russia has no business using Mexico as their proxy, and you can be sure that US would be talking about nukes 24/7 [again see Cuba] . As far as i'm aware there are no regions in Poland where majority speak Russian language and consistently votes for pro-Putin president. Now if there were (widely accepted) elections and a pro Russian president would be elected, only to be removed in a coup with US freedom cookies, than things might be different. But as usual you're conveniently trying to compare UA to a NATO country. Pretty sure EU would be ecstatic to see things go back as they were in 2013, growing GDP, high and improving standards of living, fast-track visas with Russia with discussion of visa-free entries, access to cheap Russian resources which lets them stay competitive with China/India/US, and discussions about expanding RU resource deliveries and approving NordStream2 securing competitiveness for years to come doesn't sound like too bad of the outcome? Surely you must realize the reason for all those guaranteed buy back clauses when companies leave Russia always have to leave the door open, just in case  

Last i checked almost 1000km line of engagement still stands with RU even making some progress in some sections, surely someone is manning it or who is UA fighting against there currently? But to your point, obviously in almost 8 months of fighting both sides have lost a lot of their best units, only UA side lost a lot of its conscripts and mobilized force as well, where Russia just started to mobilize. You can pretend that mobilized UA forces of the Xth wave are somehow more "sober" or elite than the first mobilized wave of RU soldiers but that's just amusing propaganda to anyone with a brain cell.

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Slippery slope argument Haha this is a good spin, NATO playing a victim card, original! Russia is down to bare bones of RU speaking Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus. So if NATO doesn't expand to these countries right now that would be a gateway to RU taking over Ireland or Canada next!   are we hoping that no one here has mental capacity to remember 2013 when UA had a pro RU president and that Transnistria has been with RU since 1990s and no one cared for that anymore than for Belarus president being the last European dictator

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Sure, is a strongly worded condemnation, and another batch of sanctions against Putin's dogs would be any less devastating than any previous devastating batches of sanctions?

March 10, 2022

Yes let's all trust US intelligence, after all they have such excellent track record. Thank you for supporting my previous point, great example of UA supporters pushing for a nuclear war. If you're feeling extra lucky today perhaps it's best you play a lottery instead of attempting to argue for a nuclear Armageddon, would give you better odds too!

Or maybe you know the reason for the defeat of Russia in other wars?

Or maybe US intelligence has figured out that Russias Nuclear Arsenal Maintenance fund has been diverted to the Oligarch Mega Yacht and Ski Chalet fund for the past 20 years.  

Kleptocracy has it's downsides - which is the main reason Ukraine booted Putins buddy Yanukovych.

Because they were paid from the funds of the US State Department, like you when you jumped on the Maidan?

The riots in Iran followed exactly the patterns of color revolutions, and enough about that here.

The police original purpose is to allow the rule of law, this includes preventing riots and protest that turn into violent mobs or riots - that would be something unsustainable for any society. If you argue that they overstep, I agree. If you are saying that the police in totalitarian regimes have the same response and accountability that in country with rule of law, that is not true.

At the risk of "whatabouting", think of the protest in Iran. Police do kill protesters, and not by chance or when things get out of control, they do kill them by the hundreds and those arrested get badly beaten, again not just one or two cases, but as an official method of control and punishment without trial. Why do you think the women there are risking death when protesting? Why do you think they would rather risk dying than living under the Ayatollahs?  If you find the answer, you will be one step closer to understanding Ukraine.

TwitchySeal or anybody can invent all kinds of possible scenarios. And nobody knows if Biden really wants to risk nuclear war. The whole thing is a bunch of bluffs on both sides, at least until the time when things get serious.

Right now things seem to be getting serious. Putin is simply showing Zelensky that he has far more non-nuclear firepower than he has used so far. He seems to be bombing Kiev in retaliation for all kinds of aggression that Zelensky has been doing, like bombing the nuke plant, and bombing the bridge, and others.

And if you say that Russia used aggression by 'stealing' about 20% of Ukrainian lands, most of the people living there voted to join Russia. And the US puppet government since 2014 have been attacking these people because there have been Russians living there for decades.

It's not easy to tell who is right. But with the US controlling Ukraine to some extent, it looks like Russia is justified to some extent.

Putin was obviously wrong when he calculated that Biden won't risk nuclear war similar to Khruschev over Cuba missiles.
He also calculated that EU is not such vassal state to USA.

He seems intent to recalculate and fix his errors

How about the scenario where Russia fails to kill him, fails to take Kiev, gets their main battleship Sunk, Crimean bridge blown up, and after a bunch of other embarrassments finds itself on defense losing territory they thought they had secured last for good last spring, and now forced to mobilize 9 months after starting the thing they thought wouldn't even be a war by invading Ukraine .  You think Putin thought of that scenario?  Doesn't seem like it.

Well, what can anybody expect? After all, the sanctions were done by the US and Nato countries to at least weaken Russia... even though they backfired. If you look for it, you might be able to find other countries plotting to blow-up the bridge.

However, thanks for this article link.

Kremlin's Fifteen Ruble Forces figured out the Crimea bridge explosion plot and it's a full-scale double-o-seven movie script. MI6, NATO, Bulgarian weapons, Lithuanian spies, it has it all. Spoilers: it ends with WW3.

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/10/10/ukrainian-kerch-bridge/

Ok, fifteen rubles is a bit unfair. The essay has so many putinist triggers, from the fall of the Soviet empire and Boris Yeltsin all the way to Christopher Steele, that it could easily be worth 50 rubles.

If you like Zelensky, you'll love his request for NATO to start a nuclear war. Why does he want the nukes to fly? Because he is failing against Russia in Ukraine.

Who is this Ukraine joker, anyway... who wants world nuclear war? Doesn't he realize that any scenario he dreams up, has already been thought of in Russia and all around the world? Doesn't he think that a sudden nuclear attack against Russia is exactly the thing that Russia is watching for, and that will be instantaneously countered by Russia?

Watch the video at the site.


Zelensky Calls for NATO to Launch Nuclear Weapons

That's what the police force was created for, to squash labour protests and to chase down run away slaves.

Just because you can find examples of police over stepping their authority or protests turning violent, doesn't mean that police reaction in general is the same in US as Russia.  There are regularly protests with millions of people against things like war in the US without issue.  Sometimes they even work.


(Note: I believe this is one of the protests, not the violent insurrection)





Do you think the police in Russia would react the same as the police in any of the above protests in America?

No, they would react differently.

No, I'm arguing that police reaction is the same

The question is not for me, but I will answer. Recently, a detachment of special forces from Ukraine returned to my city. They left six months ago and only now have they been given vacation leave (although the planned rotation should be carried out after six weeks of hostilities). Six months instead of six weeks - this is the price of the shortage of manpower involved in the special operation.

As for the scale of losses, people are tired, but everyone is alive. Recently, the first "cargo 200" from Ukraine arrived in the city, a sniper from Wagner.