Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 227. (Read 58953 times)

Quote from: Branko on June 06, 2022, 08:21:08 AM

I am saying that I consider the treaty signed under threats and it was never fully followed by ANYONE.

Now it doesn't matter, forget about the Minsk agreements, they have lost their relevance. There are two types of people, some in a difficult situation ask "What to do?", while others ask "Who is to blame?". I urge you not to engage in fruitless searches on whom to blame for what happened, this is an infantile position in life. It is wiser and more productive to actively look for a way out of the current situation, and not the reasons for getting into it. It will take about the same amount of force, but the result will be significantly different. Now Ukraine is facing an incredibly difficult challenge associated with the complete loss of its statehood - that's what you should focus on! Otherwise, there will be no Ukraine soon, as it did not exist before 1917.

I think that there is plenty of Ukraine and that, even with just the assets that can be taken from Adolf Putin, his family and the plutocrats it could become a great country to live and work in. The billions in London and NY flats, the gold reserves that are outside Russia, the immense asset base that all the plutocrats have all around Europe... You can move your yatch, but you cannot move your villas in Spain, you flats in London, your gold in the US.... You cannot move your planes unless you want the confiscated, you cannot sell your shares,... More than enough for a fair war compensations.

It will be an epically "Karma" situation that the wealth stolen by the Plutocrats and Adolf Putin from the RF people end up as schools, hospitals, road and bridges all shiny and new right across the border and protected by a NATO treaty.

Yup, west will "help" them as much as it "helped" Kurds, Libyans, Syrians, etc...there's no chance that
they ever see any of those money
I suggest you to read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081

Western help has ruined many countries like Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. These countries will take decades return to where they were before western forces came in to help them. I don't see an early end of Ukraine war, all major world powers have created enough mess in this beautiful country which used to hub of food supply for the whole world. I am afraid we may face serious food crisis if this war continues.

It was wrong for the US to invade Iraq, there was no justification. Kuwait war was justified IMHO because they were defending it against the Iraq invasion.

Afghanistan was another mistake. Going after Bin Laden is one thing, but building democracy in this region? Not sure I followed that logic.

As for Syria, well, there was ISIS which was a threat to the whole world, so I think both the US and Russia were justified in crushing them.

As for this current war, other than just a land grab I see no other justification. Historical revisionism at its best. All the talk about NATO expansion, 'denazification', 'demilitarization', and 'genocide of the Russian peoples' are just empty propaganda points.

This war started with the aggression, occupation, and annexation of Crimea in Feb 2014. Followed up by the Russian invasion of Donbas in March 2014.

Putin sells this war as a defensive war against the 'Russian peoples' but it is a war of conquest, plain and simple. There were no Russian people in Ukraine before 2014.

Just because someone speaks Russian as their first language, it does not make him Russian. Many Canadians speak North American English
but are not Americans, or speak French, yet are not French, they are Canadians. The same goes for Russian-speaking Ukrainians. They are Ukrainians. Many became Russians, no doubt. But to bomb and level the country? How nuts does someone has to be?

Nazism or more precisely imperialism 101. I think Russia poke the wrong wolverine. They will have their ass handed to them.
Sooner or later. It will be 100 times worse for them than Afghanistan and in the end, they will go home empty-handed.

be.open

copper member

Activity: 2072

Merit: 901

White Russian

BTW, I'm a bit confused by wheat shortage...Ukraine is producing
24 out of 750 million tonnes of world production...that is around 3%...
how can such tiny number have such big influence on price

By itself, this figure is within the limits of natural fluctuations from year to year. But it looks like 2022 has decided to compete for the title of the year of the perfect storm, because in France there is a two-month drought, in India there is a drought and abnormal heat, and Russia expects a record harvest, but prudently limited the export of wheat to unfriendly countries. As a result, the Ukrainian three percent has increased to double digits and this is already causing serious concern on a global scale. Especially when you consider that wheat is not only spaghetti and bread, but also the basis for animal feed.

Well, the human factor has not been canceled, let me remind you that the oil crisis in the 70s of the last century was caused by a real decrease in oil supplies from the Middle East by only 7%, and the rest was done by expectations and fears.

The main thing is not to lose heart. Poland's deputy climate minister is advising Poles to gather firewood in the forest to keep their homes warm in the winter amid rising fuel prices.

Branko

sr. member

Activity: 2464

Merit: 318

BTW, I'm a bit confused by wheat shortage...Ukraine is producing
24 out of 750 million tonnes of world production...that is around 3%...
how can such tiny number have such big influence on price

Sayeds56

copper member

Activity: 1316

Merit: 715

Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!

Quote from: Branko on June 06, 2022, 05:43:18 AM

Quote from: paxmao on June 06, 2022, 05:19:05 AM

Quote from: paxmao on June 06, 2022, 05:19:05 AM

I am saying that I consider the treaty signed under threats and it was never fully followed by ANYONE.

Now it doesn't matter, forget about the Minsk agreements, they have lost their relevance. There are two types of people, some in a difficult situation ask "What to do?", while others ask "Who is to blame?". I urge you not to engage in fruitless searches on whom to blame for what happened, this is an infantile position in life. It is wiser and more productive to actively look for a way out of the current situation, and not the reasons for getting into it. It will take about the same amount of force, but the result will be significantly different. Now Ukraine is facing an incredibly difficult challenge associated with the complete loss of its statehood - that's what you should focus on! Otherwise, there will be no Ukraine soon, as it did not exist before 1917.

I think that there is plenty of Ukraine and that, even with just the assets that can be taken from Adolf Putin, his family and the plutocrats it could become a great country to live and work in. The billions in London and NY flats, the gold reserves that are outside Russia, the immense asset base that all the plutocrats have all around Europe... You can move your yatch, but you cannot move your villas in Spain, you flats in London, your gold in the US.... You cannot move your planes unless you want the confiscated, you cannot sell your shares,... More than enough for a fair war compensations.

It will be an epically "Karma" situation that the wealth stolen by the Plutocrats and Adolf Putin from the RF people end up as schools, hospitals, road and bridges all shiny and new right across the border and protected by a NATO treaty.

Yup, west will "help" them as much as it "helped" Kurds, Libyans, Syrians, etc...there's no chance that
they ever see any of those money
I suggest you to read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081

Western help has ruined many countries like Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. These countries will take decades return to where they were before western forces came in to help them. I don't see an early end of Ukraine war, all major world powers have created enough mess in this beautiful country which used to hub of food supply for the whole world. I am afraid we may face serious food crisis if this war continues.

Branko

sr. member

Activity: 2464

Merit: 318

I am saying that I consider the treaty signed under threats and it was never fully followed by ANYONE.

Now it doesn't matter, forget about the Minsk agreements, they have lost their relevance. There are two types of people, some in a difficult situation ask "What to do?", while others ask "Who is to blame?". I urge you not to engage in fruitless searches on whom to blame for what happened, this is an infantile position in life. It is wiser and more productive to actively look for a way out of the current situation, and not the reasons for getting into it. It will take about the same amount of force, but the result will be significantly different. Now Ukraine is facing an incredibly difficult challenge associated with the complete loss of its statehood - that's what you should focus on! Otherwise, there will be no Ukraine soon, as it did not exist before 1917.

I think that there is plenty of Ukraine and that, even with just the assets that can be taken from Adolf Putin, his family and the plutocrats it could become a great country to live and work in. The billions in London and NY flats, the gold reserves that are outside Russia, the immense asset base that all the plutocrats have all around Europe... You can move your yatch, but you cannot move your villas in Spain, you flats in London, your gold in the US.... You cannot move your planes unless you want the confiscated, you cannot sell your shares,... More than enough for a fair war compensations.

It will be an epically "Karma" situation that the wealth stolen by the Plutocrats and Adolf Putin from the RF people end up as schools, hospitals, road and bridges all shiny and new right across the border and protected by a NATO treaty.

Yup, west will "help" them as much as it "helped" Kurds, Libyans, Syrians, etc...there's no chance that
they ever see any of those money
I suggest you to read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081

paxmao

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1575

Do not die for Putin

I am saying that I consider the treaty signed under threats and it was never fully followed by ANYONE.

Now it doesn't matter, forget about the Minsk agreements, they have lost their relevance. There are two types of people, some in a difficult situation ask "What to do?", while others ask "Who is to blame?". I urge you not to engage in fruitless searches on whom to blame for what happened, this is an infantile position in life. It is wiser and more productive to actively look for a way out of the current situation, and not the reasons for getting into it. It will take about the same amount of force, but the result will be significantly different. Now Ukraine is facing an incredibly difficult challenge associated with the complete loss of its statehood - that's what you should focus on! Otherwise, there will be no Ukraine soon, as it did not exist before 1917.

I think that there is plenty of Ukraine and that, even with just the assets that can be taken from Adolf Putin, his family and the plutocrats it could become a great country to live and work in. The billions in London and NY flats, the gold reserves that are outside Russia, the immense asset base that all the plutocrats have all around Europe... You can move your yatch, but you cannot move your villas in Spain, you flats in London, your gold in the US.... You cannot move your planes unless you want the confiscated, you cannot sell your shares,... More than enough for a fair war compensations.

It will be an epically "Karma" situation that the wealth stolen by the Plutocrats and Adolf Putin from the RF people end up as schools, hospitals, road and bridges all shiny and new right across the border and protected by a NATO treaty.

be.open

copper member

Activity: 2072

Merit: 901

White Russian

Quote from: DaRude on June 05, 2022, 12:46:52 AM

I am saying that I consider the treaty signed under threats and it was never fully followed by ANYONE.

Now it doesn't matter, forget about the Minsk agreements, they have lost their relevance. There are two types of people, some in a difficult situation ask "What to do?", while others ask "Who is to blame?". I urge you not to engage in fruitless searches on whom to blame for what happened, this is an infantile position in life. It is wiser and more productive to actively look for a way out of the current situation, and not the reasons for getting into it. It will take about the same amount of force, but the result will be significantly different. Now Ukraine is facing an incredibly difficult challenge associated with the complete loss of its statehood - that's what you should focus on! Otherwise, there will be no Ukraine soon, as it did not exist before 1917.

paxmao

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1575

Do not die for Putin

...

Thank you for acknowledging that Ukraine didn't implement those two points. Words have meanings, you should look up differences between "impossible" and "undesirable"!

1) "did Ukraine abide by the Minsk agreements from 2014 until 2022?" -> "Of course, they did."
2) "This point was not fulfilled by Russia. It was impossible to accomplish anything else with Russia."

That is objectively called lying! You're not going to raise any support by lying! You can't expect anyone with half a brain to fall for such cheap trick! You can finger point all day long, explain how they weren't fair, or provide reasons why Ukraine didn't implementing Minsk agreements by blaming DPR/LPR not implementing other points first, that's all fine, but what you cannot do is fool people by saying that Ukraine implemented Minsk agreements. That's just a lie, you ruin any credibility you've had by claiming such nonsense, and trying to make idiots out of the readers!
..

I am saying that I consider the treaty signed under threats and it was never fully followed by ANYONE. This is public information, there is nothing new in what I am saying and you are simply looking at one side with absolute disregard for any element of balance or equanimity in the information provided.

Minsk II it was a manoeuvre by Adolf Putin to pat the back of Macron and let him think he was on the path to the Nobel Peace Price. No wonder Adolf Putin considered that Europe would not do anything.

RE credibility and taking people for fools, you need now to answer a few questions:

1) Did Adolf Putin's RF respect THEIR side of the agreement?
2) The RF is justified on an attempt to a full invasion of Ukraine because the treaty was, in your view, not respected by Ukraine? Is that your idea of proportionality?
3) If so, would not now an full scale invasion of the RF be justified by Adolf Putin's actions?

You should not try to play this cheap and accuse when anyone can learn about the fact even with a minimum search. No wonder you are defending this war of aggression and the mass killings.

Quote

Following reports of Ukrainian positions being shelled from the Russian side of the border, between 22 and 25 August 2014, Russian artillery, personnel, and what Russia called a "humanitarian convoy" crossed the border. Russian crossings reportedly occurred both in areas that were controlled by pro-Russian forces and those that were not, such as the south-eastern part of Donetsk Oblast, near Novoazovsk.[42][43] The Head of the Security Service of Ukraine, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, called the events of 22 August a "direct invasion by Russia of Ukraine"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas#cite_note-53

Quote

The Minsk II deal set out military and political steps that remain unimplemented. A major blockage has been Russia’s insistence that it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms. In general, Moscow and Kyiv interpret the pact very differently, leading to what has been dubbed by some observers as the “Minsk conundrum”.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/9/what-is-the-minsk-agreement-and-why-is-it-relevant-now

Quote

The agreement contains a timeline for implementation but no binding mechanism, though certain elements—for example, promises to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine, efforts by France and Germany to help restore financial links with the separatist territories, and promises to continue trilateral dialogue between the EU, Ukraine, and Russia as well as the Normandy-format discussions—are quite important from a technical perspective.

https://carnegiemoscow.org/commentary/59059

be.open

copper member

Activity: 2072

Merit: 901

White Russian

Quote from: TwitchySeal on June 06, 2022, 03:44:37 AM

Ukraine gets the ball back...

Quote

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 5

Ukrainian forces continued to conduct limited and localized but successful counterattacks against Russian positions throughout Ukraine on June 5, including retaking large areas of Severodonetsk—the city in Luhansk Oblast the Kremlin has concentrated the majority of its forces on capturing. A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Ukrainian troops launched a counterattack north of Kharkiv City, indicating that Ukrainian forces continue to pressure Russian defensive lines near the Russian border.[1] Ukrainian forces are likely seeking to leverage the continued Russian focus on Severodonetsk to conduct counterattacks on other axes of advance. Even as Russian forces continue to pour equipment and troops into the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, Ukrainian forces have conducted a successful counterattack in Severodonetsk in the last 48 hours and pushed Russian troops back to the eastern outskirts of the city and out of southern settlements.[2] Ukrainian counteroffensive pressure will likely continue to draw the attention of Russian forces to Luhansk Oblast and therefore leave vulnerabilities in Russian defensive efforts in Kharkiv Oblast and along the Southern Axis. The ability of Ukrainian forces to successfully counterattack in Severodonetsk, the Kremlin’s current priority area of operations, further indicates the declining combat power of Russian forces in Ukraine.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-5

Journalist Yury Butusov, editor-in-chief of Censor.net, said that the authorities' official information about the situation in Severodonetsk was not true. Butusov wrote about this on his Facebook page.

TwitchySeal

legendary

Activity: 2520

Merit: 2015

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Ukraine gets the ball back...

Quote

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JUNE 5

Ukrainian forces continued to conduct limited and localized but successful counterattacks against Russian positions throughout Ukraine on June 5, including retaking large areas of Severodonetsk—the city in Luhansk Oblast the Kremlin has concentrated the majority of its forces on capturing. A Russian Telegram channel claimed that Ukrainian troops launched a counterattack north of Kharkiv City, indicating that Ukrainian forces continue to pressure Russian defensive lines near the Russian border.[1] Ukrainian forces are likely seeking to leverage the continued Russian focus on Severodonetsk to conduct counterattacks on other axes of advance. Even as Russian forces continue to pour equipment and troops into the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, Ukrainian forces have conducted a successful counterattack in Severodonetsk in the last 48 hours and pushed Russian troops back to the eastern outskirts of the city and out of southern settlements.[2] Ukrainian counteroffensive pressure will likely continue to draw the attention of Russian forces to Luhansk Oblast and therefore leave vulnerabilities in Russian defensive efforts in Kharkiv Oblast and along the Southern Axis. The ability of Ukrainian forces to successfully counterattack in Severodonetsk, the Kremlin’s current priority area of operations, further indicates the declining combat power of Russian forces in Ukraine.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-5

Branko

sr. member

Activity: 2464

Merit: 318

Quote from: DaRude on June 05, 2022, 10:42:48 PM

It's a nice quote, but what's the logic here? Back in 2014 Ukraine was loosing land even without official Russian involvement. Germany and France clearly didn't want to get involved (as today), Ukraine didn't have 8yrs of training and weapons from US, are you saying Ukraine should've fully surrender/got captured back in 2014? Pretty sure that was their plan and Germany/France managed to get Russia to compromise on some land, and now Germany/France are the bad guys for doing that?

And even for today i still can't trace such logic. Are you betting on Russia not fully mobilizing and just surrendering even before mobilization? Or is the bet on Ukraine somehow winning when Russia mobilizes? Or are you pushing for NATO involvement after Russian mobilization aka WW3?

And yes US/EU stole exponentially more of Russian property without any court rulings, think they even sanctioned Ukrainian born billionaire, so much for the idea of genocide

It will backfire...big part of west economic "success" was based on pouring money into dictatorships, who
would in turn return 90+% of money back to country of capital origin, while those country working class
had to repay that "debt"...who in his right mind will keep money/assets in west countries, if it can
be seized any moment

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1786

In order to dump coins one must have coins

Quote from: paxmao on June 05, 2022, 04:58:56 PM

Quote from: DaRude on June 04, 2022, 07:33:06 PM

...
Ugh so now plan put forth by France and Germany in response to offensive by the separatists, dubbed as "last chance" by French president, was coercive and wasn't "lawful"? If Poroshenko who started implementing all of that anti-Russian language laws was Putin's puppet Poroshenko who won with 54,7% (with next in line Tymoshenko receiving 12,8%) wasn't "legitimate government" can you explain who in 2015 should've signed such agreement?
...

Nobody should. It is giving away territory and concessions just to appease Adolf Putin. Big mistake.

Quote from: be.open on June 05, 2022, 08:36:38 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on June 05, 2022, 07:55:26 AM

Quote from: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-05-28/ship-to-take-metal-from-mariupol-to-russia-kyiv-decries-looting

If they don't belong to the state, why is the state the one complaining? Shouldn't it be some company stating that it lost so many tons of grain?

I didn't think this could get any more absurd, but thank you for proving me wrong. Yeah, why aren't farmers complaining, in a territory occupied by a totalitarian regime known to disappear people, when said regime is taking their property. Why didn't the people in Bucha complain on Russian state TV about getting killed?

But yes, "some company" did complain:

Ukraine's largest steelmaker Metinvest on Friday said it was concerned that Russia may use several ships stranded in Mariupol to "steal and smuggle metallurgical products" belonging to the group. It accused Russia of piracy.

Asked on Saturday whether the metal due to be shipped out belonged to Metinvest, a company spokesman said: "We said yesterday that our metal is in the port of Mariupol, yes."

Please move the goalposts by no less than 20 meters next time.

I haven't looked into this situation in detail, but this may be Russia's symmetrical response to the recent seizure of its assets in Ukraine worth more than a billion dollars. Stop whining, it works both ways. I don't know how much of an idiot you have to be to take money from the Russians and think you can get away with it.

"Russian has always come for their money". (c) Otto von Bismarck

Seize assets (AKA plunder and steal), it seems to me that Ukraine will be rebuilt with the sales of some yatchs, plenty of London ("Londongrad" / "Moscow upon thames") houses and flats in prime districts, gold reserves in custody. There is no way Adolf Putin can try to be "symmetrical" in the sanctions because it is simply beyond his power to do so. In the end, Russia still holds some Soviet era military gadgets, but economically is just another (poorly led) country sending their young to die for no purpose.

"Never bet against America" - Warren Buffet

It's a nice quote, but what's the logic here? Back in 2014 Ukraine was loosing land even without official Russian involvement. Germany and France clearly didn't want to get involved (as today), Ukraine didn't have 8yrs of training and weapons from US, are you saying Ukraine should've fully surrender/got captured back in 2014? Pretty sure that was their plan and Germany/France managed to get Russia to compromise on some land, and now Germany/France are the bad guys for doing that?

And even for today i still can't trace such logic. Are you betting on Russia not fully mobilizing and just surrendering even before mobilization? Or is the bet on Ukraine somehow winning when Russia mobilizes? Or are you pushing for NATO involvement after Russian mobilization aka WW3?

And yes US/EU stole exponentially more of Russian property without any court rulings, think they even sanctioned Ukrainian born billionaire, so much for the idea of genocide

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1786

In order to dump coins one must have coins

Quote from: af_newbie on June 05, 2022, 02:42:11 AM

Quote from: DaRude on June 05, 2022, 12:46:52 AM

...blah, blah, broken Minsk agreement, we did nothing wrong, we are innocent, we just invaded you and annexed Crimea, blah, blah...

Quote from: af_newbie on June 04, 2022, 09:14:39 PM

Read this fucking thing again.

"Pullout of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, and also mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under OSCE supervision. Disarmament of all illegal groups."

This point was not fulfilled by Russia. It was impossible to accomplish anything else with Russia. They vetoed all UN resolutions to bring peace to this region.

I am even surprised they "agreed" to this point when they knew they never planned to fulfill it. But that is what Russians do, think one thing,
say something else, and do something else altogether.

Not only that, they brought more military and FSB personnel after they signed this agreement.

This conflict was orchestrated by Russia. Both FSB and military were involved first in Crimea and immediately afterward in Donbas when
FSB terrorists captured the Sloviansk police station. The rest is history.

The Minsk 'agreements' were signed to buy Russia time to ferment more 'pro-Russian' sympathy in Donbas, but when this did not work, we got the Feb 24th invasion as Putin was fed up with Russian speaking Ukrainians.

Thank you for acknowledging that Ukraine didn't implement those two points. Words have meanings, you should look up differences between "impossible" and "undesirable"!

1) "did Ukraine abide by the Minsk agreements from 2014 until 2022?" -> "Of course, they did."
2) "This point was not fulfilled by Russia. It was impossible to accomplish anything else with Russia."

That is objectively called lying! You're not going to raise any support by lying! You can't expect anyone with half a brain to fall for such cheap trick! You can finger point all day long, explain how they weren't fair, or provide reasons why Ukraine didn't implementing Minsk agreements by blaming DPR/LPR not implementing other points first, that's all fine, but what you cannot do is fool people by saying that Ukraine implemented Minsk agreements. That's just a lie, you ruin any credibility you've had by claiming such nonsense, and trying to make idiots out of the readers!

That is right, Russia lied. They never had any intention of removing their FSB and military from Donbas or Crimea. Merkel and Macron are both
idiots to believe in such nonsense.

This time around, they thought they can pull Crimea 2014 annexation scenario. You know the "Green Men" on vacation doing their hobbies, we don't know anything about it, it is Ukrainians that wanted the referendum, etc.

Just like before they amassed a 200K army on the border in January, they said that they never intended to invade Ukraine. They lied.

Just like they said they did not invade Ukraine, and at the same time, their forces were storming Kyiv. They were lying.

Just like now, they said they never stole grain and steel from Ukraine. They lied.

Just like now, they said they never target civilian targets, don't rape, don't steal, don't kidnap children, and don't execute civilians.

Guess, what, they lied. And keep lying.

Russkiy Mir, my friend. Guess what? Their spiel is up. Even the naive westerners caught on, and now the whole civilized world knows
what these terrorists are doing.

You can only trust dead Russians.

If I were in the Ukrainian government I would advise them not to talk to Russians. Just kill them all on your territory, close the border
completely, create a 1-2km mined buffer zone on the border, and never ever again trade or deal with Russia. Criminalize communist or Soviet
propaganda, criminalize pro-Russian views, prosecute all pro-Russian advocates, let them leave Ukraine, and ban them from ever entering the
country.

Oh, yeah, once you recover from this clusterfuck, allocate 20% of your GDP to the military, join NATO, and obtain nuclear weapons.

Just stop, you're only making it worse for yourself. Whatboutism about politicians lying in no way covers you lying here to us!

Quote from: TwitchySeal on June 05, 2022, 01:03:53 AM

Quote from: DaRude on June 05, 2022, 12:46:52 AM

That is objectively called lying! You're not going to raise any support by lying!

Speaking of lies, here's a list of Putins top 10 lies about Ukraine, according to the US Dept of State from back in 2014 after he annexed Crimea but before he admitted it publicly.

https://www.businessinsider.com/state-dept-putin-lying-top-10-lies-ukraine-crimea-2014-3

Before you start screaming about US being the liars, remember...Russia did annex Crimea.

Politicians lie, I'm just shocked Shocked

If you show me a politician that doesn't lie, then you'll be the one lying, now how's that relevant to members posting obvious lies on here?

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1368

^^^ You are so funny, paxmao. Don't you realize that Putin is offering homesteads in Russia to citizens from everywhere in the world? - https://malaysiandigest.com/putin-offers-millions-of-americans-free-home-in-russia/.

Besides, here's Biden, Pelosi, and the Dems, betting against America by giving away all kinds of military to the Ukraine, and destroying the US in the process. So, who is going to get all that war material when Russia puts down the Ukrainian rebellion? Russia, of course.

You are so silly.

Cool

paxmao

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1575

Do not die for Putin

Quote from: DaRude on June 04, 2022, 07:33:06 PM

...
Ugh so now plan put forth by France and Germany in response to offensive by the separatists, dubbed as "last chance" by French president, was coercive and wasn't "lawful"? If Poroshenko who started implementing all of that anti-Russian language laws was Putin's puppet Poroshenko who won with 54,7% (with next in line Tymoshenko receiving 12,8%) wasn't "legitimate government" can you explain who in 2015 should've signed such agreement?
...

Nobody should. It is giving away territory and concessions just to appease Adolf Putin. Big mistake.

Quote from: be.open on June 05, 2022, 08:36:38 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on June 05, 2022, 07:55:26 AM

Quote from: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-05-28/ship-to-take-metal-from-mariupol-to-russia-kyiv-decries-looting

If they don't belong to the state, why is the state the one complaining? Shouldn't it be some company stating that it lost so many tons of grain?

I didn't think this could get any more absurd, but thank you for proving me wrong. Yeah, why aren't farmers complaining, in a territory occupied by a totalitarian regime known to disappear people, when said regime is taking their property. Why didn't the people in Bucha complain on Russian state TV about getting killed?

But yes, "some company" did complain:

Ukraine's largest steelmaker Metinvest on Friday said it was concerned that Russia may use several ships stranded in Mariupol to "steal and smuggle metallurgical products" belonging to the group. It accused Russia of piracy.

Asked on Saturday whether the metal due to be shipped out belonged to Metinvest, a company spokesman said: "We said yesterday that our metal is in the port of Mariupol, yes."

Please move the goalposts by no less than 20 meters next time.

I haven't looked into this situation in detail, but this may be Russia's symmetrical response to the recent seizure of its assets in Ukraine worth more than a billion dollars. Stop whining, it works both ways. I don't know how much of an idiot you have to be to take money from the Russians and think you can get away with it.

"Russian has always come for their money". (c) Otto von Bismarck

Seize assets (AKA plunder and steal), it seems to me that Ukraine will be rebuilt with the sales of some yatchs, plenty of London ("Londongrad" / "Moscow upon thames") houses and flats in prime districts, gold reserves in custody. There is no way Adolf Putin can try to be "symmetrical" in the sanctions because it is simply beyond his power to do so. In the end, Russia still holds some Soviet era military gadgets, but economically is just another (poorly led) country sending their young to die for no purpose.

"Never bet against America" - Warren Buffet

be.open

copper member

Activity: 2072

Merit: 901

White Russian

Quote from: suchmoon on June 05, 2022, 07:55:26 AM

Quote from: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-05-28/ship-to-take-metal-from-mariupol-to-russia-kyiv-decries-looting

If they don't belong to the state, why is the state the one complaining? Shouldn't it be some company stating that it lost so many tons of grain?

I didn't think this could get any more absurd, but thank you for proving me wrong. Yeah, why aren't farmers complaining, in a territory occupied by a totalitarian regime known to disappear people, when said regime is taking their property. Why didn't the people in Bucha complain on Russian state TV about getting killed?

But yes, "some company" did complain:

Ukraine's largest steelmaker Metinvest on Friday said it was concerned that Russia may use several ships stranded in Mariupol to "steal and smuggle metallurgical products" belonging to the group. It accused Russia of piracy.

Asked on Saturday whether the metal due to be shipped out belonged to Metinvest, a company spokesman said: "We said yesterday that our metal is in the port of Mariupol, yes."

Please move the goalposts by no less than 20 meters next time.

I haven't looked into this situation in detail, but this may be Russia's symmetrical response to the recent seizure of its assets in Ukraine worth more than a billion dollars. Stop whining, it works both ways. I don't know how much of an idiot you have to be to take money from the Russians and think you can get away with it.

"Russian has always come for their money". (c) Otto von Bismarck

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org