Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 26. (Read 77398 times)

Even Ukraine would be agreeing with Putin offering Ukrainian farmland homesteads to Russians, if they thought of it.


Ukrainians increasingly willing to cede land for peace: survey

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https://asiatimes.com/2024/09/ukrainians-increasingly-willing-to-cede-land-for-peace-survey/
The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, is trying his best to shake up the dynamics of the Russia-Ukraine war. He recently undertook a major cabinet reshuffle in which he replaced no fewer than nine ministers, including his foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba.

Announcing the changes, Zelensky said he wanted his government to be "more active" in pressing for aid from its Western allies.

These cabinet changes came as Ukraine pressed ahead with its offensive in the Kursk oblast in Russia. Zelensky has said that holding some Russian territory will give Kiev leverage for future territorial exchange negotiations with Russia.

And, while criticism of Zelensky's gamble has increased as Ukraine's position in the Donbas in the east of the country has deteriorated, seeing Ukrainian soldiers turn the table on Russia has undeniably given Ukrainians a morale boost.

Ukrainians needed this. As the war has endured and its costs mounted, morale and public health have suffered.

We have tracked Ukrainian sentiment for years. In June and July 2024, in cooperation with the Kiev International Institute for Sociology (KIIS), we conducted a telephone public opinion survey of 2,200 respondents representative of the adult population of government-controlled areas of Ukraine. This was to follow up on a survey from October 2022.

We should treat wartime polls with caution. But our survey findings suggest people are worried about war weariness among their fellow Ukrainians. It also suggests that there is growing, if reluctant, support for negotiations and territorial concessions.

Open to compromise

Attitudes among Ukrainians toward territorial concessions have also started to shift – but only slightly. Most people have opposed giving up land since 2014, but KIIS's own regular omnibus survey provides evidence of growing recognition, now shared by one-third of Ukrainians, that territorial concessions may be necessary.
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Actually, there were 10+ so far on the other side.
Example:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/JmtWtkvxeS9a

I think it will be allowed to hit deep into Russia soon, then it will be hot.

If the event is 1) for real and 2) close to as advertised as a kinetic attack and conflagration, then it's Russia's bad.  Bad engineering in storage primarily, and not unlike the series of explosions in Western Ukraine when uranium shells were stored carelessly by NATO.  Clearly a win for NATO tactically speaking.  That's war.

I think now they will start blowing up such warehouses, after all, 30 kilotons were on it, it's gorgeous.

Peace is the absence of war. I guess going back to the status quo of 2013 is now termed surrender by those who want to continue the war? If we go back to how things were before the cookies arrived, then why would Russia want to invade?

Blah blah blah back to NATO is helpless and apparently it's Ukraine that's protecting NATO nonsense, we all believe that right?  

The best terms Ukraine could've gotten were in 2021 when Russia, which has alarmed the West with a military buildup near Ukraine, laid out an array of security demands late last year, including a demand that Kyiv never join NATO. It also asked for a halt to the Western military alliance's expansion. we can all guess the response it got. The second best terms Ukraine can get is now. The problem with that is what to do with Zelenskyy. When fighting stops he stops being a president and he won't want to be in Ukraine when the real losses of a 10-1 RU advantage in artillery will be revealed.


UN predicts winter power outages of between 4 and 18 hours per day.

What percentage do you think will want to negotiate coming out of the winter? And will Ukraine be in a better position or worse on the front lines after the winter?

Also, i'm guessing a lot rests on US elections in November, that in itself will probably dictate the outcome for Ukraine.

You despise Cubans deciding for themselves. You embrace hypocrisy and double standards of who should and who should not be able to decide. The only logical conclusion that can lead to is either a one world government, or a nuclear annihilation, neither of which sound good to me. I'd rather nuclear powers each stay in their own sand box and don't infringe on others spheres of influence by sponsoring coup detat. You know the whole existential threat for each power that have kept us safe since the cold war.

Russia does have a lot of problems with its demographics, low birth rates, people leaving, population declining etc. But all those problems are exponentially worse in Ukraine to the point of a full demographic catastrophe. If Ukraine decides to go into the winter like this, they'll have to somehow prevent younger generation from leaving.

Negotiations, is not about what you wish for, but what you can realistically get, and whether you think you can improve that with time. Fighting until either last Ukrainian or 1991 borders, will not lead to desired outcome for Ukraine.

It makes sense pretty much everywhere actually.  About the only place it fails is in the fever-dreams of crazed messianic end-of-days wackos, or retards installed into 'leadership positions' by said.  I and most of the rest of the world are very fortunate that at least Russia seems to be led by a sane person.


Sure.  That's what rational people do.  Remember that Russia and plenty of countries are not being imploded in some sort of controlled demolition and actually have a pretty bright future in front of them.  It makes sense that they wish to live to enjoy it.  It's mostly NATO countries who feel that they have no hope and thus wish to go out in a giant nuclear fireball.

That's why Ukraine has little appetite for bailing Russia out from it's own self-inflicted colossal mess.

Most of the time it's incorrectly called the "Russian peace deal", but let's call a spade a spade, it's a "bailing Russia out deal".

While it is true that Ukraine triggered the ammo explosions in the Tver region, it may have been Russia that inadvertently cause their own damage by trying to repel an Ukrainian missile.


Drone Strike On Arsenal Triggers Biggest Explosion On Russian Soil Of The War

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https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/drone-strike-arsenal-triggers-biggest-explosion-russian-soil-war
"A fire started in Toropets, Tver region, as a result of falling debris from a drone that was repelled by air defense forces," the Tver regional administration said early Wednesday. The oblast declared a "partial evacuation" due to the large blast and surrounding fires. Social media video showed a huge fireball erupt against the night sky.

The above video was likely take from 2km away or more, strongly suggesting this could be the largest explosion of the war on Russian territory. There's widespread speculation that it was a missile and ammo storage site.

"A NASA satellite image showed a concentrated set of fires east of Toropets, covering an area of 13 square kilometers (5.2 square miles) as of early Wednesday," Amsterdam-based The Moscow Times writes.

"The site corresponds with the location of the Russian Defense Ministry's main missile and artillery directorate arsenal, situated 488 kilometers northeast of Ukraine's border," the report continues. If true, then Moscow is likely to view such a major attack so deep into Russia as having a NATO hand behind it.

Reuters has described it as an "earthquake-sized blast" which also resulted in a mushroom cloud rising high after the explosion. Some online commentators went so far as to say the blast looks suspiciously nuclear.

President Putin last week said it has become clear that NATO countries assist with targeting and that its satellites and coordinating systems must be involved in such attacks.
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I am surprised that Ukraine pulled it up. It was huge, to the point that BA Decker has thrown one of his usual walltexts to prevent people from actually reading about it. Let's undo this and have a look a Toropest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH7-krNAOQA

This is before. Not a small depot, lot's of small depots as usual in these cases, but... the Ruzzians apparently were so confident on not getting attacked that they piled up stuff out of the protected depots. Perhaps they were given the order to store much more than they really could... who knows... but...


Before:


After:



So the adversary want you to nuke them, and Putin's strategy is to screw them by not nuking them. Ok.. I am sure that makes sense in Ruzzia.

In the rest of the world, Putin knows he has nothing to gain by escalating, so if "the West" sends weapons he copes with it.

What can I say is that explosion was very impressive. In these more than 2.5 years I so lot of stuff, but this one is something what you won't see daily. It even triggered little earthquake. We can only guess what exactly was stored there, but it's obvious that there was crazy amounts of hiighly explosive stuff. Fun fact that official version of Russia says that fire was caused by drone wreckage because as always, all drones were shot down by Russian air defense. But when they build these facilities, they said that facility could defend weapons from missiles and even a small nuclear attack. And that was just drone wreckage...

Forces within the Western decision making centers are clearly and increasingly desperate to get some sort of WW-III going.  There are multiple hypothesese as to who and what drives these objectives, and why.

If some sort of a WW-III is not in Russia's interest at this time, it would be foolish to react inappropriately.  Putin, who actually does appear to call the shots in Russia (very much unlike what we see in most of the Western governing frameworks), seems to be a deep strategic thinker with a long-term outlook and not prone to making mistakes driven out of haste.   The same cannot be said for all Russians.

The way to really screw ones adversary is to NOT give them what they want.   At least not when they want something which would server their interests at a given point in time.  WW-III, if/when it happens, will probably work out better for Russia some time in the future.  If it can be deferred until internal forces within the West manage to collapse their respective societies with population movements, monetary collapses, etc, then a proper World War might not even be necessary and if it is, it will be a lot less costly to win.

A classic example of patience was Israel back in Gulf-I.  Saddam insulted Israel with some meaningless scud bottle-rockets and Israel did exactly the right thing.  Nothing! ...or so it seemed at the surface level where the retards live.  Back in those days the Likudniks, who did shriek for 'revenge', were just a faction of fundamentalist crazies with their messianic visions who didn't run the show.  It's a different world now where rational strategies which visualize a future past the 'end-of-days' are less possible.

Every attack that Ukraine does to/on Russia challenges and stretches-thinner the general love Russia has for Ukraine. With a million troops in standby in Russia, when Russia has had enough, they will simply overrun Ukraine.

Personally, to gain more support from his people, Putin should start offering 250 acres of Ukrainian homestead farmland to any Russians (or others) who will go in and fight Ukrainians to prove the homestead land up. There are incentives Putin could offer that would make it even more attractive to the people of Russia... including general military support.

However, while Russia might be corrupt, Ukraine is way more corrupt than Russia.


Ukraine and Poland continue to disagree over Volhynia genocide where Ukrainians murdered at least 120K ethnic Poles

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https://www.naturalnews.com/2024-09-18-ukraine-poland-disagree-over-volhynia-genocide.html
The World War II-era Volhynia genocide continues to be a source of tension between Poland and Ukraine despite the Polish government's strong support for the Ukrainians in their current conflict with Russia.

From 1943 to 1945, Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) and the ultra-nationalist Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) murdered at least 120,000 ethnic Poles. Most of the casualties were women and children.

The slaughter was set in motion in then-German-occupied eastern Poland, a territory owned by modern-day Ukraine because of Soviet-orchestrated land transfers.

Many of the killers were ordinary Ukrainians armed with agricultural implements who used the German occupation as an excuse to ethnically cleanse the area ahead of its incorporation into an independent Ukrainian nation-state.

The Ukrainian government continues to deny that the Polish massacres were acts of genocide.

Dmytro Kuleba, Ukraine’s Foreign Minister, was hesitant when asked whether Ukraine would defer to recent Polish requests for the exhumation of Polish massacre victims. He suggested that Kyiv and Warsaw should agree to disagree on the subject of genocide, adding that the matter is something that historians should discuss.

Poland to block Ukraine from joining EU and NATO if Ukrainian crimes remain unaddressed
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What do you say about the strike on the ammunition depot in the Tver region?

The most interesting update is Ukraine hitting a massive weapons storage facility. Figures are around 90.000 tons of explosives lost and I would not give credit to it, but there is satellite evidence - I mean that the smoke can be seen from space. This was in the north, not that far from Lithuania.


I am not sure what is the guy's post about??? So the weapons that US and UK and France, and German, and Poland, Canada, Lithuania... all those were not serious weapons?? They did only hurt a bit and not kill??

Where is the escalation? Ruzzia has put many red lines, all of them have been passed and there is no escalation and the reason is that if Ruzzia goes nuke, the Moscovian regime would be gone either in hours or in days.

Stay out of the war? What war? It isn't a war. It's a cat and mouse game, at least for the cat Russia.


Russia announces counteroffensive in Kursk, recapture of 10 settlements

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https://www.naturalnews.com/2024-09-16-russia-counteroffensive-kursk-recapture-10-settlements.html
The Russian Ministry of Defense has announced that its forces have successfully recaptured 10 settlements previously seized by Ukrainian troops during its surprise cross-border incursion into Russia's Kursk Oblast.

This marked a significant shift in the conflict as Ukrainian forces had initially made considerable advances in the region in its lightning incursion.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed the development, stating that the Russian counteroffensive aligns with Ukraine's broader strategy of diverting Russian manpower and resources away from the contested regions of southern and eastern Ukraine.

The Russian counteroffensive began under the command of the "Units of the North," who reclaimed the settlements over a two-day operation around the area of Snagost, a key western flank in the region occupied by Ukraine since the launch of their campaign on August 6. (Related: Russia claims to have destroyed two concealed U.S.-made HIMARS systems near the border with Kursk.)

The first signs of a Russian counterattack emerged when Maj. Gen. Apti Alaudinov, commander of the 141st Motorized Regiment, a unit within the Russian National Guard consisting of ethnic Chechens, reported that six Ukrainian brigades had suffered significant losses amid the regiment's push into Ukrainian-occupied Kursk.

A Ukrainian officer currently involved in the fighting in the Kursk Oblast, speaking anonymously to the BBC, confirmed the scale of the Russian counteroffensive, revealing that the fighting had started some distance west of Sudzha, a crucial area in the conflict.

Ukraine's incursion into Kursk resulted in Kyiv occupying nearly 1,300 square kilometers (500 square miles) of Russian territory.

Russian military expert Anatoly Matviychuk told Moskovsky Komsomolets that Russian forces had reclaimed more than 100 square kilometers (38.6 square miles) of territory and that "the enemy's reserves, reinforcements and logistical supplies can no longer reach Kursk region."

The counteroffensive could have significant consequences for Ukraine's ability to sustain its campaign outside of its borders.

Ukraine's incursion into Kursk unable to divert significant Russian forces from Donbas
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You would prefer to stay out of this war - offcourse, because now you're somewhere far away from it. But current phase of war is leading nowhere, only to more deaths every day. Now basically Ukraine is fighting with their hands tied.
You're talking about escaltion. Yeah, but Ukraine already crossed what was red flag for Russia so many times that long distance missiles wouldn't be big deal.

^^^ It's simple. Russia has a million troops in reserve for the time the US and/or Nato decides to make it a formal war. What's left of Ukraine could easily be overrun and destroyed by just a part of this Russian reserve military. So, let Ukraine gradually kill themselves off in playing their 'war games' thinking that they have some kind of a chance in this war.

No, you are not seeking peace you are seeking surrender. You "care" when it comes to asking Ukraine to give up, but you are all about justifying Putin actually starting this war and give all the "good reasons why Ruzzia invaded and why this war actually exist. Do not pretend to care about peace, it is so hypocritical and evident as things get.

You say:
- Ukraine will surrender because the power infrastructure is damaged and the support will be less in the future. - Both of these are your wet dreams, nothing that is here and now. Ukraine has enough to keep the war going for years.

- Ukraine is ok with not joining NATO - again, your wishes. But if can be some other military alliance or pact, because I think it is NATO that is not ready for Ukraine. What peace are you accepting if it guarantees Ruzzia will invade after recovering.

- EU solidarity is collapsing - You have a massive misunderstanding of the situation. EU is not defending Ukraine, it is defending the EU. Survival comes first and Germany in particular understands it very well as half of it was soviet for quite a while.

I do not need to justify your claims nor argue about them. You say "stuff", anyone is free to check. If it gives you a clue, you rarely present proven facts, just a few cherries here and there, even occasionally saying the opposite of what the source say.

So you are saying that Ukraine cannot go into winter because of the damage to the infrastructure. Ok, so you think Ukraine will surrender in winter or before. Let me quote you on that.

I did not defend other referendums, it is for you to prove that the ones you argue are "valid" or at least "credible" if you need to lower the standard. You despise anything that means people deciding, you belong in the middle ages. Again,  you will never understand why an Ukrainian soldier signs in to defend his country because for you all is a mockery. I suggest you and Branko open a thread about the war in former Yugoslavia so that topics that belong there can be discussed.

That is a good point, people can leave Ruzzia - unless they are forcibly conscripted and sent to the borders, or they are imprisoned for political reasons or they are so poor that they simply cannot - like most - (to leave a country you need to be able to live somewhere else). And certainly many have take the decision to leave, probably in the range of millions by now - those who can work anywhere because they are qualified.

Russia has not been on the offensive for three years. They have been in the defensive at least three times - when loosing Kherson, during the previous summer and in Kursk as of now. At the pace Russian economy is going, they are not going to be on the offensive in the long term.

"Slower advance" means exactly that, but if you need an interpretation have it: "advancing at such a pace that makes reaching the military objectives impossible within a 5 years framework of time". If you are happy with that you should apply for a position in Putin's General Command.

"slowed down the already slow advance" is that just another way of saying still advancing?

I'm "eager for peace" because...well because war is bad, people dying/suffering is bad, is that not obvious to everyone? Now why don't you want peace?

Russia didn't close borders, people are free to leave when they wish to. Do you see mass exodus of people from Crimea coming into Ukraine through other countries? What would Ukrainian "language inspectors" even do with all those people that don't even speak Ukrainian? Want to look up statistic on the population of Crimea?

"fake referendums are anything but a mockery of democracy" oh you mean like the Kosovo independence precedent?
‘For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law’

Would you mind going through your justification for "language police inspectors" one more time? I must've missed you explaining how democratic and freedom loving that is.

a) I do not see Putin accepting only the taken terriotories. I do not see Ukraine accepting the statu=quo on the terrain as permanent.
-Well yeah. Russia is on record saying that this is not about the territory, Russia must have neutral Ukraine and without " language inspectors"
b) I do not see Ukraine accepting to be neutral to wait for the next invasion, I do not see Putin accepting Ukraine in NATO.
-It's really close now, but poll trends indicate it changing anytime now. Plus what are the alternatives you'd recommend to Ukraine? To go into the winter without electricity, with reduced aid from Germany and possible no aid from US? Because you honestly see less people in Ukraine accepting to be neutral coming out of the winter and going into spring in 2025? Same end result but with more suffering.
c) I do not see Ruzzia being able impose the stated objectives (4 regions) by force. I do not see Ukraine stopping to create economic pain and stiff resistance.
-Russia is on the offensive. And mostly has been for almost 3 years now. Do you see financial support for Ukraine from US/Germany reducing or increasing in 2025? And now, do you see financial support for Russia from China reducing or increasing in 2025? Follow the money  
d) I do not see the US loosing anything by keeping the fight ongoing.
-It's in US's interest to keep solidarity in EU. EU collapsing would not benefit US in long term. They must do all they can to stop the spread of ultra rights in EU, this must become a top priority for US policy above all else. The question if they can actually stop ultra-rights from spreading is another matter.

Zelenskyy is being squeezed financially, and it's hard to gauge Ukraines manpower shortages after this Kursk fiasco ends. It's not what he wants to do, but what he can do, and whether waiting will improve or worsen his situation coming out of winter.