Front update: Ruzzia has slowed down the already slow advance in the East, while there are signs of Ukraine succeeding at getting more Pow at Kursk.
On the rumours side, the conscripts that surrendered to Ukraine and are exchanged are sent back to the front (I am not sure how they expect a different result?) and the Tik-tok army of Ahmad is saying that they are not interested in recovering captured soldiers. So... I guess they pow from Chechenia need to apply for Ukrainian citizenship.
^^^ More territory, more power and rebuild the Ruzzian domains. If you are going to argue do it correctly.
I do not see Ukrainians massively taking the streets in favour of Putin's puppet, so there must be some reason why - who knows, maybe they are absolutely ok with getting rid of Moscow and what you call a coup is simply the people taking over their own destiny into their own hands? Maybe is not about cookies after all, but about having a future?
Your whole philosophy is built on the people of Ukraine not having an opinion nor a will of their own and that is being proven wrong.
Meanwhile the situation in Kursk is extremely fluid, with a contingent of Ruzzians near encirclement after a failed counter-attack.
It's refreshing to see that even you don't consider people in Crimea and Donbas as Ukrainians now, this is a great indication for me that there's a good chance that negotiations can happen by November.
Yes people taking their own destiny into their own hands, while a third top senior US politician just happened to give out cookies to them that day while saying "Fuck the EU", and then more javilins magically showed up per square meter in Ukraine than in any other place on earth, which were enough to stop Russian initial offense of 250k soldiers. It's as if they planned this all along and were actually expecting the Russian offense, and armed Ukraine to the teeth with all they could after giving out those cookies. But guess you're going to try and convince everyone that it's all just a coincidence, right?
Your whole philosophy conveniently disregards the roll US played in all of this from the very beginning. You base your arguments on absolutes, totally disregarding the realities of this world and double standards. I'm yet to hear a reason why Ukrainians should be able to take destiny into their own hands while Cubans are not allowed to?
The road to hell is paved with good intentionsEdit:
Wondering why more people don't voice their opposing positions, it's not like someone is oppressing them from even speaking in their mother tongue, and now to this...
The city of Ivano-Frankivsk in western Ukraine is to be patrolled by “language inspectors” tasked with limiting the use of Russian while simultaneously promoting the use of Ukrainian among its residents, Mayor Ruslan Martsinkiv announced on Monday.
Martsinkiv attributed the decision to introduce language inspectors to the increasing frequent use of Russian in the city, which he described as a problem for Ukraine that would be solved by “introducing a public initiative”.
“Because, unfortunately, the Russian language is being spoken more in Ivano-Frankivsk, and this is a problem for our country and for our city in particular,” he added.
Nothing says freedom like "language inspectors"
why are you so eager for peace? Is anything not going plan?
I consider people in all the regions Ukrainians under a military invasion by Moscow. Are you trying to imply that the fake referendums are anything but a mockery of democracy? I am not surprised, as said you mind does not accept free people taking decisions. They have to be under a tyrant - you probably justify it to yourself in terms of that's how it works or it is all the same or most likely, I do not care. Is like a medieval world and it is the reason why Ukraine wants to move on from it.
And here we go again with the narrative that Putin is going to protect Ruzzians, that they were mistreated, bla bla bla... Not a single part of it is true and we have gone through it a million times.
Regarding peace:
a) I do not see Putin accepting only the taken terriotories. I do not see Ukraine accepting the statu=quo on the terrain as permanent.
b) I do not see Ukraine accepting to be neutral to wait for the next invasion, I do not see Putin accepting Ukraine in NATO.
c) I do not see Ruzzia being able impose the stated objectives (4 regions) by force. I do not see Ukraine stopping to create economic pain and stiff resistance.
d) I do not see the US loosing anything by keeping the fight ongoing.
Too many things to solve in just a couple of months.
"slowed down the already slow advance" is that just another way of saying still advancing?
I'm "eager for peace" because...well because war is bad, people dying/suffering is bad, is that not obvious to everyone? Now why don't you want peace?
Russia didn't close borders, people are free to leave when they wish to. Do you see mass exodus of people from Crimea coming into Ukraine through other countries? What would Ukrainian "language inspectors" even do with all those people that don't even speak Ukrainian? Want to look up statistic on the population of Crimea?
"fake referendums are anything but a mockery of democracy" oh you mean like the
Kosovo independence precedent?
‘For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law’Would you mind going through your justification for "language
police inspectors" one more time? I must've missed you explaining how democratic and freedom loving that is.
a) I do not see Putin accepting only the taken terriotories. I do not see Ukraine accepting the statu=quo on the terrain as permanent.-Well yeah. Russia is on record saying that this is not about the territory, Russia must have neutral Ukraine and without " language inspectors"
b) I do not see Ukraine accepting to be neutral to wait for the next invasion, I do not see Putin accepting Ukraine in NATO.-It's really close now, but poll trends indicate it changing anytime now. Plus what are the alternatives you'd recommend to Ukraine? To go into the winter without electricity, with reduced aid from Germany and possible no aid from US? Because you honestly see less people in Ukraine accepting to be neutral coming out of the winter and going into spring in 2025? Same end result but with more suffering.
c) I do not see Ruzzia being able impose the stated objectives (4 regions) by force. I do not see Ukraine stopping to create economic pain and stiff resistance.-Russia is on the offensive. And mostly has been for almost 3 years now. Do you see financial support for Ukraine from US/Germany reducing or increasing in 2025? And now, do you see financial support for Russia from China reducing or increasing in 2025? Follow the money
d) I do not see the US loosing anything by keeping the fight ongoing.-It's in US's interest to keep solidarity in EU. EU collapsing would not benefit US in long term. They must do all they can to stop the spread of ultra rights in EU, this must become a top priority for US policy above all else. The question if they can actually stop ultra-rights from spreading is another matter.
Zelenskyy is being squeezed financially, and it's hard to gauge Ukraines manpower shortages after this Kursk fiasco ends. It's not what he wants to do, but what he can do, and whether waiting will improve or worsen his situation coming out of winter.
No,
you are not seeking peace you are seeking surrender. You "care" when it comes to asking Ukraine to give up, but you are all about justifying Putin actually starting this war and give all the "good reasons why Ruzzia invaded and why this war actually exist. Do not pretend to care about peace, it is so hypocritical and evident as things get.
You say:
- Ukraine will surrender because the power infrastructure is damaged and the support will be less in the future. - Both of these are your wet dreams, nothing that is here and now. Ukraine has enough to keep the war going for years.
- Ukraine is ok with not joining NATO - again, your wishes. But if can be some other military alliance or pact, because I think it is NATO that is not ready for Ukraine. What peace are you accepting if it guarantees Ruzzia will invade after recovering.
- EU solidarity is collapsing - You have a massive misunderstanding of the situation. EU is not defending Ukraine, it is defending the EU. Survival comes first and Germany in particular understands it very well as half of it was soviet for quite a while.
I do not need to justify your claims nor argue about them. You say "stuff", anyone is free to check. If it gives you a clue, you rarely present proven facts, just a few cherries here and there, even occasionally saying the opposite of what the source say.
So you are saying that Ukraine cannot go into winter because of the damage to the infrastructure.
Ok, so you think Ukraine will surrender in winter or before. Let me quote you on that.I did not defend other referendums,
it is for you to prove that the ones you argue are "valid" or at least "credible" if you need to lower the standard. You despise anything that means people deciding, you belong in the middle ages. Again, you will never understand why an Ukrainian soldier signs in to defend his country because for you all is a mockery. I suggest you and Branko open a thread about the war in former Yugoslavia so that topics that belong there can be discussed.
That is a good point,
people can leave Ruzzia - unless they are forcibly conscripted and sent to the borders, or they are imprisoned for political reasons or they are so poor that they simply cannot - like most - (to leave a country you need to be able to live somewhere else). And certainly many have take the decision to leave, probably in the range of millions by now - those who can work anywhere because they are qualified.
Russia has not been on the offensive for three years. They have been in the defensive at least three times - when loosing Kherson, during the previous summer and in Kursk as of now. At the pace Russian economy is going, they are not going to be on the offensive in the long term.
"Slower advance" means exactly that, but if you need an interpretation have it: "advancing at such a pace that makes reaching the military objectives impossible within a 5 years framework of time". If you are happy with that you should apply for a position in Putin's General Command.
Peace is the absence of war. I guess going back to the status quo of 2013 is now termed surrender by those who want to continue the war? If we go back to how things were before the cookies arrived, then why would Russia want to invade?
Blah blah blah back to NATO is helpless and apparently it's Ukraine that's protecting NATO nonsense, we all believe that right?
The best terms Ukraine could've gotten were in 2021 when
Russia, which has alarmed the West with a military buildup near Ukraine, laid out an array of security demands late last year, including a demand that Kyiv never join NATO. It also asked for a halt to the Western military alliance's expansion. we can all guess the response it got. The second best terms Ukraine can get is now. The problem with that is what to do with Zelenskyy. When fighting stops he stops being a president and he won't want to be in Ukraine when the real losses of a 10-1 RU advantage in artillery will be revealed.
More Ukrainians Want to Negotiate an End to the War. Soldiers Don’t Agree.
Opinion polls show that support for some kind of negotiations with Moscow has been creeping upward since Ukraine’s counteroffensive last year failed to retake significant territory—though a majority of Ukrainians still say they want to keep fighting to retake all Russian-occupied land.
...
“There’s war fatigue in Western society, and certainly in Ukrainian society,” said Col. Andriy Biletskiy, the commander of one of Ukraine’s largest brigades. “This is not the most optimistic moment for Ukraine, but no military catastrophe has occurred. This war is not lost.”
...
But he said he decided to speak publicly—something he has rarely done since the start of the invasion in February 2022—in response to the shifting national mood, which he said was hurting the motivation of troops at the front.
...
Though polls show that the general public also remains skeptical of deals with Putin, many—especially younger people—are ready to accept an imperfect peace to stop the war.
...
“People want peace,” she wrote. Soon after, Umka said, Ukraine’s domestic intelligence agency, the SBU, called her in to speak. Umka declined to comment on what happened.
...
Still, Volodymyr Dubovyk, director of the Center for International Studies in Odesa, Ukraine, said the shifting public opinion has given Zelensky an opportunity to forge some kind of deal.
“The very fact that people appear to be more ready to have negotiations with Russia is a big change,” Dubovyk said. But he added that any cease-fire came with significant political risk: “It would probably be seen by a lot of Ukrainians as a bad deal.”
Yet, continuing the war presents its own political challenges for Zelensky.
Ukrainian brigades on the eastern front are desperately short of men and weaponry. Continued support from the U.S. may depend on the results of the election in November.
UN predicts
winter power outages of between 4 and 18 hours per day. What percentage do you think will want to negotiate coming out of the winter? And will Ukraine be in a better position or worse on the front lines after the winter?
Also, i'm guessing a lot rests on US elections in November, that in itself will probably dictate the outcome for Ukraine.
You despise Cubans deciding for themselves. You embrace hypocrisy and double standards of who should and who should not be able to decide. The only logical conclusion that can lead to is either a one world government, or a nuclear annihilation, neither of which sound good to me. I'd rather nuclear powers each stay in their own sand box and don't infringe on others spheres of influence by sponsoring coup detat. You know the whole existential threat for each power that have kept us safe since the cold war.
Russia does have a lot of problems with its demographics, low birth rates, people leaving, population declining etc. But all those problems are exponentially worse in Ukraine to the point of a full demographic catastrophe. If Ukraine decides to go into the winter like this, they'll have to somehow prevent younger generation from leaving.
Negotiations, is not about what you wish for, but what you can realistically get, and whether you think you can improve that with time. Fighting until either last Ukrainian or 1991 borders, will not lead to desired outcome for Ukraine.
