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Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 293. (Read 73612 times)

sr. member
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All of the fallacies aside, locals who join the enemy forces will be killed just like the enemy. Attempts to twist this into some unfair hostility should be addressed to Putin - he started the invasion and all of this mess.

If he is guilty, he should be punished, better in Ukraine. There are hundreds of reports on the network about the atrocities of Russian soldiers. How many criminal cases have been opened and criminals named so far? None of the normal person will protect them. Ukrainian law enforcement agencies are required to publish complete information so that the thieves and rapists become known in Russia.

And they do that. But Russia isn't doing shit about it, and most likely Ukrainian law enforcement is not going to be able to arrest them. So what exactly is your problem here?

You often quote American and English magazines, apparently considering them indisputable authoritative sources, to accuse Russia. Even the most famous newspaper is not a judicial department to accuse anyone, because there is such a thing as "presumption of innocence". Remember this definition? The United States is the main sponsor of Ukraine's military operations and is the most active on its side, and it is unlikely that there are large independent magazines anywhere in the world that are completely outside the control of governments. For prosecution, an international independent investigation must first be carried out. I and any adequate person will not defend criminals, no matter what country they belong to, if their guilt is proven in an independent court. Articles in an American, English, German and any other newspaper can serve as an additional source of information, but in no way can be evidence of a serious crime, especially now, during the open information war between the countries of the West and Russia.

This is not a court of law. We share information from various sources and I put a lot of effort into reading Russian language sources so your allegation about "American and English" is ludicrously off base. I post links to English versions whenever possible because this is an English board, but most of the information originates in Russian. I try to add warnings if I post e.g. rumors from telegram, otherwise if it's a reputable source then it's up to the reader to decide what to make of it. Again, I don't understand what your problem is here. If Russian military isn't looking its best in these news reports, it's most likely because it's a looting gang of criminals and not because the reports are wrong.

It would be quite absurd to use heavily-censored and mostly Kremlin-controlled media in Russia as sources for anything other than a laugh.

Just warn people that a woman who is accused of changing the price tag in a store now faces up to 10 years in a Russian prison.

Totally not a fascist regime at all.


But you just said you would kill Ukrainians doing the same
legendary
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~

All of the fallacies aside, locals who join the enemy forces will be killed just like the enemy. Attempts to twist this into some unfair hostility should be addressed to Putin - he started the invasion and all of this mess.

If he is guilty, he should be punished, better in Ukraine. There are hundreds of reports on the network about the atrocities of Russian soldiers. How many criminal cases have been opened and criminals named so far? None of the normal person will protect them. Ukrainian law enforcement agencies are required to publish complete information so that the thieves and rapists become known in Russia.

And they do that. But Russia isn't doing shit about it, and most likely Ukrainian law enforcement is not going to be able to arrest them. So what exactly is your problem here?

You often quote American and English magazines, apparently considering them indisputable authoritative sources, to accuse Russia. Even the most famous newspaper is not a judicial department to accuse anyone, because there is such a thing as "presumption of innocence". Remember this definition? The United States is the main sponsor of Ukraine's military operations and is the most active on its side, and it is unlikely that there are large independent magazines anywhere in the world that are completely outside the control of governments. For prosecution, an international independent investigation must first be carried out. I and any adequate person will not defend criminals, no matter what country they belong to, if their guilt is proven in an independent court. Articles in an American, English, German and any other newspaper can serve as an additional source of information, but in no way can be evidence of a serious crime, especially now, during the open information war between the countries of the West and Russia.

This is not a court of law. We share information from various sources and I put a lot of effort into reading Russian language sources so your allegation about "American and English" is ludicrously off base. I post links to English versions whenever possible because this is an English board, but most of the information originates in Russian. I try to add warnings if I post e.g. rumors from telegram, otherwise if it's a reputable source then it's up to the reader to decide what to make of it. Again, I don't understand what your problem is here. If Russian military isn't looking its best in these news reports, it's most likely because it's a looting gang of criminals and not because the reports are wrong.

It would be quite absurd to use heavily-censored and mostly Kremlin-controlled media in Russia as sources for anything other than a laugh.

Just warn people that a woman who is accused of changing the price tag in a store now faces up to 10 years in a Russian prison.

Totally not a fascist regime at all.
legendary
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Rumor has it Russia is facing the possibility of losing Crimea.
Russia Could Actually Lose Territory Amid Ukraine War Disaster
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-kyiv-crimea-putin-zelensky-donbas-1708149

This is an illusion, and a very dangerous one for all parties.
Ukraine will not be able to regain Crimea under any circumstances, since Russia's nuclear doctrine states that it will use nuclear weapons if the Kremlin decides that the existence of the state will be threatened.

A few months ago we all thought we'd be waking up to news of Zelensky dead and Kyiev occupied by Russian forces.  At the time, Russian failure and retreat within a few weeks seemed much less likely than Ukraine ultimately regaining some of it's land that was seized in 2014 today.
legendary
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Do not die for Putin
Your loaded question on "rusophobia" aside, "examples of" is not equal to a widespread adoption of nazi ideology. Nazi/fascist elements can be found in any society that has a certain degree of freedom of speech. Only a few countries - Russia is among them, Ukraine is not - have adopted fascism as a policy.
...
Source

Stop engaging in demagogy. The Ukrainian Azov Battalion was recognized as a neo-Nazi group by the US Congress. 40 congressmen wanted it to be also considered a terrorist entity, but this initiative didn't pass then. Azov is officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine. What other countries have Nazis officially in the army, if you know of such examples?

Yoohoo, Putin isn't invading Ukraine because of Nazis.  The whole Nazi thing is just an excuse.  

Think about it, Putin is an Ethno Nationalist and a fascist.  Why would he have a problem with Nazis?  He doesn't.  He's just calling Ukrainians Nazis to get all the boomers and Russians that want it to be true so bad they are blinded to support him.

And for every Nazi in Ukraine there are hundreds, maybe thousands of Stalin supporters in Russia, which is just as bad.  


On top of it, on the ridiculous attempt to make it look like if US were giving any credibility to the "nazi-terrorist" arguments, this is how reality looks like:

https://youtu.be/6JUOIJRpffs?t=14 - Senate approved 40 Billion USD in help to Ukraine.

That is the US view on the matter, putting the dollar where their mouth and the public opinion are.

Edited: I just noticed on the strategic map that if either Kherson or Melitopol fall Crimea may simply not have any water. The supply would be cut. Some maps even give a larger advantage to Ukraine in the South, calling contested some of the areas that Russia is taking for granted.
legendary
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Your loaded question on "rusophobia" aside, "examples of" is not equal to a widespread adoption of nazi ideology. Nazi/fascist elements can be found in any society that has a certain degree of freedom of speech. Only a few countries - Russia is among them, Ukraine is not - have adopted fascism as a policy.


Source

Stop engaging in demagogy. The Ukrainian Azov Battalion was recognized as a neo-Nazi group by the US Congress. 40 congressmen wanted it to be also considered a terrorist entity, but this initiative didn't pass then. Azov is officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine. What other countries have Nazis officially in the army, if you know of such examples?

Yoohoo, Putin isn't invading Ukraine because of Nazis.  The whole Nazi thing is just an excuse. 

Think about it, Putin is an Ethno Nationalist and a fascist.  Why would he have a problem with Nazis?  He doesn't.  He's just calling Ukrainians Nazis to get all the boomers and Russians that want it to be true so bad they are blinded to support him.

And for every Nazi in Ukraine there are hundreds, maybe thousands of Stalin supporters in Russia, which is just as bad. 
legendary
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Anyone in Ukraine providing material support to Russia should be killed.  They became combatants on Feb 24th, 2022.

Anyone in Ukraine with pro-Russian views will be considered an enemy. Most likely these people will be stripped
of their Ukrainian citizenship and will have to leave Ukraine.

Thanks, af_newbie. I had always guessed you wanted to take freedom away from people - freedom of speech and freedom to live their lives. But now that you admit it, it will be so much easier to classify you as a Nazi.

Cool

Yes, I would take away your freedom to rape, murder, torture, and level cities.

You have some twisted moral standard. But I will never understand your Bronze Age morality, so I am not going to try.

I am not sure you can even comprehend what is happening. Russians are the terrorists here, always were, and I am afraid always will be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQe8GcrQy-U

The Nazis of the 1940s would be offended for guys like you calling people like me a Nazi.
legendary
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Do not die for Putin
Your loaded question on "rusophobia" aside, "examples of" is not equal to a widespread adoption of nazi ideology. Nazi/fascist elements can be found in any society that has a certain degree of freedom of speech. Only a few countries - Russia is among them, Ukraine is not - have adopted fascism as a policy.

...
Source

Stop engaging in demagogy. The Ukrainian Azov Battalion was recognized as a neo-Nazi group by the US Congress. 40 congressmen wanted it to be also considered a terrorist entity, but this initiative didn't pass then.



Which means that 495 did not. You see 40 vs 495 - that is how credible your argument is. In my view, the Putin's army as of today is a terrorist organisation: invaded a pacific neighbour, destroyed schools, hospitals and a range of civilian buildings with people inside, tortures and kills to spread terror... that looks like terrorism to me.

The Nazi argument is irrelevant to the war, Putin could not care less about the ideology of the people that he kills and this discussion is only for the internal propaganda market and to cover up an unjustified war of invasion and aggression. Nobody outside Russia (probably not that many inside) thinks that this war has anything to do with Nazism (Putin himself is behaving much more like the Nazi Reich and his army like the Wehrmacht).

As said before, retaliation is a bitch. If Putin decides to treat POW as terrorist, the young and unprepared Russian soldiers sent to the front should not expect anything else. Under Putin, Russia is acting as a terrorist state and it is to be expected that is granted the same "courtesy" as he has with the adversary.

This if to you, young Russian men: If you do not stop this you will be sent to die for Putin. He is 70, he does not care at all if you live or die and the leaders that will send you to your death know that you are inexperienced and will be facing an experienced and well supplied army that will do anything to defend their land.

Do not die for Putin.
legendary
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Anyone in Ukraine providing material support to Russia should be killed.  They became combatants on Feb 24th, 2022.

Anyone in Ukraine with pro-Russian views will be considered an enemy. Most likely these people will be stripped
of their Ukrainian citizenship and will have to leave Ukraine.

Thanks, af_newbie. I had always guessed you wanted to take freedom away from people - freedom of speech and freedom to live their lives. But now that you admit it, it will be so much easier to classify you as a Nazi.

Cool
legendary
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legendary
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Rêlêå§ê ¥ðµr MïñÐ
Your loaded question on "rusophobia" aside, "examples of" is not equal to a widespread adoption of nazi ideology. Nazi/fascist elements can be found in any society that has a certain degree of freedom of speech. Only a few countries - Russia is among them, Ukraine is not - have adopted fascism as a policy.


Source

Stop engaging in demagogy. The Ukrainian Azov Battalion was recognized as a neo-Nazi group by the US Congress. 40 congressmen wanted it to be also considered a terrorist entity, but this initiative didn't pass then. Azov is officially part of the National Guard of Ukraine. What other countries have Nazis officially in the army, if you know of such examples?
You refuse to acknowledge the obvious. In Ukraine, civil servants (SBU - possibly like those who wear SS patches) killed their negotiator because they thought he supported pro-Russian views, and you just brush it off, like this is all nonsense and Putin propaganda.
From the 2nd minute of this video, SBU officer Vyacheslav Shevchuk recalled the mayor of Kremenny Vladimir Struk, who was waiting for the "Russian peace" and who was later found shot dead with a bag on his head. From 3 minutes 40 seconds, an SBU officer tells how six citizens were executed "without trial or investigation" accused of complicity with the Russian army, that they allegedly set up beacons. Some users may say that these are cruel wartime laws. And if, under the guise of traitors, objectionable people are thus eliminated? Because without a trial they can accuse any person of betrayal and immediately shoot him.
Ukrainian President Zelensky calls it "normal and cool" that some Ukrainians consider the Nazi Stepan Bandera a national hero. Zelensky's adviser, Mikhail Podolyak, says that in the south-eastern regions of Ukraine they should clear the land from collaborators and forget the word "Russian". Is it worth recalling that millions of Russian-speaking people live in these areas? Do you have any idea what will happen to them when the armed Ukrainian nationalists get there? Most likely, much worse than what happened in Donbass in 2014-2021, when 14,000 people died.

Code:
Mikhail Podolyak: "For me, it's important that we liberate the Kherson region,
and as harshly as possible for both collaborators and the Russian military.
We need the waters of the Sea of Azov.
I am in favor of forgetting the word "Russians" in the Kharkiv region.
I am in favor of forgetting the word "Russians" in the Luhansk and Donetsk regions
and that the criminal elements who call themselves the authorities should not be there physically.


Lyudmila Denisova
This is the same lady who claims that Russian soldiers rape Ukrainian women on Putin's orders. Do you unquestioningly believe her, even if her statements about child abuse contradict the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office?

Code:
Lyudmila Denisova: "The background is that they want to make it impossible for women to ever be able or want to have children again.
This is clear genocide. The soldiers rely on Putin's orders to destroy the entire country".
... Men and children are also raped. A mother was tied to a chair while her 11-year-old son was abused for 10 hours.
The 45-year-old man barely survived when he came out of his hiding place to fetch water.
They tortured and raped him.


Quote
One of those occupiers who raped Ukrainian women is in the photo. This is Bulat Lenarovych FASSAKHOV, born on November 20, 2001.
If he is guilty, he should be punished, better in Ukraine. There are hundreds of reports on the network about the atrocities of Russian soldiers. How many criminal cases have been opened and criminals named so far? None of the normal person will protect them. Ukrainian law enforcement agencies are required to publish complete information so that the thieves and rapists become known in Russia.
The Russian military also caught a Ukrainian rapist in Mariupol in April 2022. This is the deputy commander of the fire support company of the military unit A-2777, senior lieutenant Sergei Batynsky. He raped a woman at gunpoint and killed her husband.


Nonsense sounds like a correct description of what you're doing here. Again, going out of your way to find some minor, possibly out-of-context, tangential detail and ignoring actual facts.
You often quote American and English magazines, apparently considering them indisputable authoritative sources, to accuse Russia. Even the most famous newspaper is not a judicial department to accuse anyone, because there is such a thing as "presumption of innocence". Remember this definition? The United States is the main sponsor of Ukraine's military operations and is the most active on its side, and it is unlikely that there are large independent magazines anywhere in the world that are completely outside the control of governments. For prosecution, an international independent investigation must first be carried out. I and any adequate person will not defend criminals, no matter what country they belong to, if their guilt is proven in an independent court. Articles in an American, English, German and any other newspaper can serve as an additional source of information, but in no way can be evidence of a serious crime, especially now, during the open information war between the countries of the West and Russia.



Silver lining to dictator cracking down on dissent is the creative ways to protest.
Like switching price tags in the grocery store, or hacking the TV guide:


Just warn people that a woman who is accused of changing the price tag in a store now faces up to 10 years in a Russian prison.


Rumor has it Russia is facing the possibility of losing Crimea.
Russia Could Actually Lose Territory Amid Ukraine War Disaster
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-kyiv-crimea-putin-zelensky-donbas-1708149

This is an illusion, and a very dangerous one for all parties.
Ukraine will not be able to regain Crimea under any circumstances, since Russia's nuclear doctrine states that it will use nuclear weapons if the Kremlin decides that the existence of the state will be threatened.

Ukraine is preparing to extend the mobilization, the territorial defense is being sent to the front, criminals are being released from prisons so that they go to war. Whereas Russia has involved so far 15% of the total Russian army (150,000 out of 1 million). In Russia, you don't even need to declare mobilization, as there are unused contract soldiers, volunteers who fully support Putin's policies, and militant citizens with combat experience who want to go to the front.

- This conflict will drag on because the act of surrender and the surrender of several regions will mean a death sentence for Zelensky. If he admits defeat, he will be executed by his own nationalists, as was the case with one of the Ukrainian negotiators, therefore Zelensky puts conditions that are impossible for Russia to fulfill, he will negotiate only if Donbass, Crimea and the Kherson region are given to Ukraine.
- Russia will not give up these territories and will continue the offensive. If the Russian command feels that they will not be able to win this war, then they can use nuclear weapons, since for it the retreat and loss of territories is comparable to self-destruction. After admitting defeat, Russia will be in a much worse position than it is now, under > 10,000 sanctions. Even those who were neutral will turn away from her, and, most likely, a civil war will begin in the country, since the Russian population will not forgive such a result to their government. Therefore, the issue of victory is a matter of survival for Russia, it cannot simply turn back.
- The US views Ukraine as its own important strategic and economic asset. The US government has invested tens of billions of dollars in Ukraine, for years prepared Ukraine for resistance to Russia, pumped it up with weapons and most likely US doesn't want to give Russia the giant shale gas deposits in the Donbass.
legendary
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Gas for rubles...oil for rubles...wheat for rubles...
...
Are the Russians also winning on the economic front? Hell, when you earn in BTC and spend in rubles, it's not so noticeable. This sword is double-edged, unfortunately or fortunately.

Where I live it is 'light blue' (generally somewhat aligned with the West...read; 'dependent upon IMF and WorldBank') but people simply don't have the money to pay exponentially more for food, fuel, helicopters, etc, just to supposedly stick it to Russia 'because of things'.  I suspect that if the govt tries to make the peeps do so it may result in a collapse of the oligarchy.  Unless, by accident of fate, there are a lot fewer people somehow which is probably the best explanation for complicity in the globalist vaxx solution.

Anyway, I do suspect that Russian resource availability will overcome all, and brokering through cyrptocurrencies very well could end up being more economical and reliable than trying to get through either the existing Western dominated exchange frameworks or the hot mess which is sure to follow.

The above pretends that Putin is not 'in on it' with the rest of the NWO Globalists, and, as I judge things currently, that he is is more likely than not.

---
On a totally different topic:  Probably staged, but pretty funny:

  Jewkraine Soldier Captured: Mm y Russian is not good
  https://www.bitchute.com/video/Kbdvy2zRO4s9/

I find the (mis?)translation indicating that the little fella was told it was staged for 'American TV' to be especially interesting.

copper member
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White Russian
Rumor has it

Rumor has it Russia is facing the possibility of losing Crimea.


Russia Could Actually Lose Territory Amid Ukraine War Disaster
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-kyiv-crimea-putin-zelensky-donbas-1708149
I don't see any consensus in the West on this issue. For example, according to the editorial opinion of the New York Times, a decisive Ukrainian military victory over Russia, in which Ukraine will regain all the territory captured by Russia since 2014, is not realistic.

Gas for rubles...oil for rubles...wheat for rubles...

I think I'm seeing a pattern here.  Wonder how a guy could get a hold of some rubles?  Oh hey, I know!

  https://currency.com/btc-to-rub

Wow, in looking at that chart it's showing pretty good performance for the big RUB over the last month!  Maybe because the last of the Rooskies has not quite yet been chased back across the border even though that event was just days away several months ago according to official Ukrainian sources.
Are the Russians also winning on the economic front? Hell, when you earn in BTC and spend in rubles, it's not so noticeable. This sword is double-edged, unfortunately or fortunately.
legendary
Activity: 4690
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Gas for rubles...oil for rubles...wheat for rubles...

I think I'm seeing a pattern here.  Wonder how a guy could get a hold of some rubles?  Oh hey, I know!

  https://currency.com/btc-to-rub

Wow, in looking at that chart it's showing pretty good performance for the big RUB over the last month!  Maybe because the last of the Rooskies has not quite yet been chased back across the border even though that event was just days away several months ago according to official Ukrainian sources.

legendary
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Not sure if this is spontaneous or somehow organized, but it defies the typical excuses that nothing can be done in protest against Putin's regime. Apparently some things can be done and are being done.

Silver lining to dictator cracking down on dissent is the creative ways to protest.

Like switching price tags in the grocery store, or hacking the TV guide:



legendary
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Russian citizens are likely responsible for the attacks on military commissariats

Hopefully they get a bit smarter in picking out the buildings without surveillance, disguising themselves, and prepping/testing the incendiary devices. If they get caught they face serious criminal charges all the way up to terrorism.

Not sure if this is spontaneous or somehow organized, but it defies the typical excuses that nothing can be done in protest against Putin's regime. Apparently some things can be done and are being done.
legendary
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Secretly forcing your citizens to fight a war has it's consequences. 

Quote
Unknown Russian perpetrators conducted a series of Molotov cocktail attacks on Russian military commissariats throughout the country in May, likely in protest of covert mobilization. Russian media and local Telegram channels reported deliberate acts of arson against military commissariats in three Moscow Oblast settlements—Omsk, Volgograd, Ryazan Oblast, and Khanty-Mansi Autonomous District—between May 4 and May 18.[5] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov said that there were at least 12 cases of deliberate arson against military commissariats in total and five last week.[6] Russian officials caught two 16-year-olds in the act in one Moscow Oblast settlement, which suggests that Russian citizens are likely responsible for the attacks on military commissariats.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-19
legendary
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Do not die for Putin
Again, all this is good for short distance. UKR is now getting proper siege artillery, the modern ones that are accurate, fast firing and come with a range of ammo for various situations. We have already seen footage and my guess is we are going to see much more.
You are great for not losing heart. Meanwhile, 700 people left Azovstal during the day, and the total number of those who surrendered exceeded 900 people. I think the next tactical boiler will be near Avdeevka or near Lisichansk-Severodonetsk. Here and there, under the threat of encirclement of the APU grouping of about 15,000 soldiers, with Zelensky's order to stand to the death.

Loosing heart? The morale and conviction of Ukraine is 100x the Russ. It has taken your glorious Psychos in Chief months to defeat a regiment even under continuous shelling and siege. Is that how you intent to play this war?
Why not?

Because you cannot afford it.

Rumor has it

Rumor has it Russia is facing the possibility of losing Crimea.


Russia Could Actually Lose Territory Amid Ukraine War Disaster
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-kyiv-crimea-putin-zelensky-donbas-1708149

It is not out of question certainly. I am not sure about a full loss of al the occupied territory, but there is a decent chance of them loosing it partially at least. Crimea is heavily defended but the Russ have shown their incapability to take Mykolayv and may be forced to retreat further. A few of the chief psychos have been shown the door by Putin, that is certainly a sign of how it goes. I never heard of generals dismissed when they win in modern times.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-fires-2-generals-for-ukraine-failures-uk-claims-2022-5?r=US&IR=T

Quote
The UK update said that Lieutenant General Serhiy Kisel, who commanded the elite 1st Guards Tank Army, was suspended for his failure to capture Kharkiv.

It also said that Vice Admiral Igor Osipov, who commanded Russia's Black Sea Fleet, was fired for the sinking of the cruiser Moskva in April.

legendary
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Rumor has it

Rumor has it Russia is facing the possibility of losing Crimea.


Russia Could Actually Lose Territory Amid Ukraine War Disaster
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-kyiv-crimea-putin-zelensky-donbas-1708149
copper member
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White Russian
According to yet unconfirmed reports, Svyatoslav Palamar (callsign Kalina) also surrendered.
Nope, he didn't surrender, he is still in Azovstal and made short video:
https://t.me/uniannet/55727
Rumor has it that this video was pre-recorded. It seems that the story of Azov has ended ingloriously, there is information from the Russian military correspondent that today Denis Prokopenko (call sign Radis) and his assistant Volyna surrendered. The biggest bewilderment of military correspondents is that the Azov people are captured quite vigorous, fresh and neatly trimmed, with bags of provisions. And that there are much more prisoners than the DPR fighters who received them and blocked them at Azovstal.

ps Musical pause.
legendary
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Many nationalists worship bandera in Ukraine today and yes he was a nazi collaborator and war criminal who murdered Jews and other ethnic minorities.

Many nationalists worship Stalin (arguably more evil than Hitler) in Russia today and yes he was a nazi collaborator and war criminal who murdered Jews and other ethnic minorities. 

Stalin More Popular Than Putin in Russia These Days
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2019-05-09/stalin-is-more-popular-than-ever-in-russia-survey-shows

(from 2019)

But so what.  That wouldn't justify any country attempt to stop Russia from existing as a country.
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