It scares me that you reached your pinnacle of cringe right on this topic. Person who yells WHATABOUTISM when i even slightly hint at a comparison (not a main rebuttal), blatantly doesn't answer a single direct question and just start discussing other people 
surely the irony cannot be lost here
[...]
Osama bin Laden was also fighting Soviets before murdering innocent people (and was also sponsored by CIA), does that make him a controversial figure in your eyes as well? How about Osama bin Laden Avenue in Kyiv, it can run directly parallel to Stepana Bandery Avenue.
surely the irony cannot be lost here[...]
Osama bin Laden was also fighting Soviets before murdering innocent people (and was also sponsored by CIA), does that make him a controversial figure in your eyes as well? How about Osama bin Laden Avenue in Kyiv, it can run directly parallel to Stepana Bandery Avenue.
No, it's still you bringing in unrelated shit into this thread.
You brought up Bandera as one of the reasons Ukraine needs denazification (correct me if I'm wrong). I responded as to why that's absurd. If you can't make a coherent argument that's not really my fault.
The UPA's actions resulted in between 50,000 and 100,000 deaths...the killings were directly linked to the policies of Stepan Bandera's faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) and its military arm
[...]
Controversial figure, right, something all of us could've done, just a silly mistake, perhaps wouldn't mind having an address on his street?
this is beyond atrocious!
[...]
Controversial figure, right, something all of us could've done, just a silly mistake, perhaps wouldn't mind having an address on his street?
this is beyond atrocious!Not a fan of Stalin. Georgian' madman who indiscriminately killed his own people across all races/ethnicities (even his own Georgian republic suffered greatly "the exact number of Georgians executed during the Great Purges is not estimated, but some scholars suggest it varies from 30,000 to 60,000"). He did achieve his goal of rapidly industrializing USSR. I believe the argument largely comes from the cost/benefit analysis, where some people feel the loss of life is justified or couldn't be avoided under such circumstances. I tend to disagree and believe he went above and beyond on human suffering from what could be reasonably justified to industrialize USSR as quickly as possible. During the Soviet famine, percentage wise Kazakhs suffered the most 38 to 42 percent of all Kazakhs died from the famines during his rule. In absolute numbers including Russian famine of 1921–1922, the most died in Russia (~7mil). I surely wouldn't condone naming streets after him in 2016. Now any chance you could concede that the guy who did all the massacring and raping wasn't such a great guy and surely there must be other Ukrainian heroes who should get a street named after them?
But still Bandera streets in Ukraine - bad, Ukraine needs denazifying.
Stalin streets in Russia - nah, I just don't condone it.
Sometimes I feel like your reading comprehension is on a 6th grade level. Let's try once again, I brought up Bandera because I came across CIA's operation Red Sox where in 1949 CIA also tried to back Ukrainian independence by sponsoring Bandera, and CIA operations chief flat out admits that they were sponsoring a group directly linked to Nazi atrocities, even worse they did the Nazi's 'dirty work' (Bandera). Everyone seem to agree that this guy massacred/tortured/rapped lots of people, yet Ukrainians felt that he was the most deserving from all Ukrainians to name a street in his honor in the capital of Kyiv in 2016. Now this is where i get confused, you claim that there are only few Nazis in Ukraine but no more than in any other capital ok, so if you'd say that some idiot somehow managed to find some loophole and rename a street in the city after the murderer but once people found out there were protests etc but for one reason or the other they cannot change it to someone more deserving, i'd understand. But you don't say that at all, what scares me is your allusions, changing topic to other people, and reluctance to condemn Bandera makes it sound like that's wasn't an error at all, and most people do in fact support a guy who massacred innocent people. Am i mistaken? Is Bandera a hero to you?
Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti-
communist, nationalist but not a Nazi. He collaborated with the Germans, but later was arrested by them and imprisoned in the concentration
camp.
He was assassinated by the Russians.
You support Russians who committed and are committing genocides and war crimes. Who executed people in Katyn?
Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times?
Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals.
Who killed innocent people across Europe? Easy, your hero Bandera. Here are some highlights:
Quote from: Banderites
Stepan Bandera (1909-1959), head of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that formed in 1929 as an amalgamation of movements including the Union of Ukrainian Fascists.[2][3] The union, known as OUN-B, had been engaged in various atrocities, including murder of civilians, most of whom were ethnic Poles.
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These massacres resulted in the deaths of 80,000-100,000 Poles and 10,000-15,000 Ukrainians.
..
The OUN-B (Banderites) formed Ukrainian death squads that carried out pogroms and massacres both independently and with support from the Germans
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To ensure maximum impact of the systematic ethnic cleansing campaign in the contested territory, OUN-B faction spread antisemitic, racist, and fascist propaganda among the ordinary peasants and other Ukrainians.
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Bandera wrote a manifesto entitled "Ukrainian National Revolution" that called for the annihilation of so-called ethnic enemies.
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included specific instructions about the killing of Jews, Poles, and Ukrainian opponents of fascism.
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OUN leaflets...read: "Exterminate the Poles, Jews and communists without mercy. Do not pity the enemies of the Ukrainian National Revolution!
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The first pogrom took the lives of at least 4,000 Jews... and the "Petlura Days" massacre of more than 2,000 Polish Jews by the Ukrainian militants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderites...
These massacres resulted in the deaths of 80,000-100,000 Poles and 10,000-15,000 Ukrainians.
..
The OUN-B (Banderites) formed Ukrainian death squads that carried out pogroms and massacres both independently and with support from the Germans
...
To ensure maximum impact of the systematic ethnic cleansing campaign in the contested territory, OUN-B faction spread antisemitic, racist, and fascist propaganda among the ordinary peasants and other Ukrainians.
...
Bandera wrote a manifesto entitled "Ukrainian National Revolution" that called for the annihilation of so-called ethnic enemies.
...
included specific instructions about the killing of Jews, Poles, and Ukrainian opponents of fascism.
...
OUN leaflets...read: "Exterminate the Poles, Jews and communists without mercy. Do not pity the enemies of the Ukrainian National Revolution!
...
The first pogrom took the lives of at least 4,000 Jews... and the "Petlura Days" massacre of more than 2,000 Polish Jews by the Ukrainian militants.
Quote
Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists[1][2] (OUN), an organization responsible for ethnic cleansings also implicated in collaboration with Nazi Germany.
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largely responsible for the massacres of Polish civilians[28] and partially for the Holocaust in Ukraine.
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his organization, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, was involved in a massacre of Poles in Volhynia and, in early 1944, ethnic cleansing also spread to Eastern Galicia. It is estimated that more than 35,000 and up to 60,000 Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia, and up to 100,000 if other regions, such as Eastern Galicia, are included.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera...
largely responsible for the massacres of Polish civilians[28] and partially for the Holocaust in Ukraine.
...
his organization, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, was involved in a massacre of Poles in Volhynia and, in early 1944, ethnic cleansing also spread to Eastern Galicia. It is estimated that more than 35,000 and up to 60,000 Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia, and up to 100,000 if other regions, such as Eastern Galicia, are included.[
Guy who was never even a citizen of Ukraine, kills 10k-15k Ukrainians (ignoring thousands of other women and children) that's your hero? Just cause he also killed Soviet people?
To summarize:
- 1929 Bandera joined OUN
- 1931 becoming the chief propaganda officer of the OUN
- June 1933 became head of the OUN national executive
- June 1934 assassination of Poland's Minister of the Interior Bronisław Pieracki. convicted of terrorism and sentenced to death but the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment in Poland
- 1 Sep 1939 Germany Invades Poland.
- Sept 1939 Bandera is freed from prison, moves to German-occupied zone of Poland offers his services to Nazi Germany in exchange for ongoing financial and logistical support.
- Sept 1939 recruited before Operation Barbarossa during World War II into the Nazi Germany military intelligence Abwehr for espionage, counter-espionage and sabotage.
- 22 June 1941 Nazi Germany invades Soviet Union
- 5 July 1941 Bandera is arrested in Germany
- 14 July 1941 After 9 days released from custody was required to stay in Berlin
- Jan 1942 Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp's special barrack for high-profile political prisoners Zellenbau but kept in special, comparatively comfortable detention
- Sep 1944 with Germany rapidly losing ground in the war in the face of the advancing Allied armies, Bandera was released and settles with his family in West Germany
- 1946 OUN-B was re-formed in under the sponsorship of MI6. Organization had been receiving some support from MI6 since the 1930s. One faction of Bandera's organization...became more closely associated with the CIA
- Some American intelligence reported that he even was guarded by former SS men.
- Bandera reached an agreement with the BND, offering them his service, despite CIA warning the West Germans against cooperating with him.
- 1959 Bandera was assassinated in 1959 by KGB agents in Munich.
- 22 January 2010 President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko awarded Bandera the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine.
Let's reiterate where everyone stands. On one side we have:
Russia
Israel
Germany - condemning crimes committed by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, in part under the leadership of Bandera, especially against civilians
Poland - declared Volhynia a genocide, and doesn't even allow cars with OUN (red black flag) stickers to enter Poland
EU - Deeply deplores ... to award Stepan Bandera, a leader of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) which collaborated with Nazi Germany, the title of ‘National Hero of Ukraine’; hopes, in this regard, that the new Ukrainian leadership will reconsider such decisions and will maintain its commitment to European values;
And on another side we have:
Ukrainian neo-Nazis
and YOU
Right, so we all got your stance on Bandera. A follow up question, how do you feel about Hitler, he also fought against Soviets, so is he a hero to you too?
