Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 295. (Read 60618 times)

Its possible that Russians did it, but it would be as stupid as Assad gassing his own civilians always AFTER
he would retake some territory...illogical...but in his case western media always promptly sided against
him, then going silent after UN team would find it was rebels that staged it

Tell me, what is the logic of the Russian military to kill civilians when leaving Bucha? Why Ukraine staged this provocation, I can understand, but why would the Russians do it? I think the staged fake was made in a big hurry and a medical examination, together with forensic experts, will soon shed light on this situation.

They have large Russian minority in Ukraine...shooting them and then blaming it on Russia would be seen by Azov as double win, I guess
I'm from Croatia, and during our little war 30 years ago, all sides did that (yes, even us Croats)

It is a pity for everyone that you do not listen to your own advice and choose to be a two-faced creature.


You know, even the Nazis during World War II did not blame the victims themselves for their crimes. They at least spoke openly about their views. By your logic, did the Jews burn themselves in concentration camps? Unlike them, you are not only brutally cruel, you are also the last cowards. Did the Ukrainians themselves arrange the massacre in Bucha? Well, it's extremely easy to do when the city is under occupation for more than three weeks. In the occupation you are so proud of, because it is almost near Kyiv. Probably, people want to see your "velikaya rasseya" on their doorstep so much that they burn your fascist symbols on their backs. They rape themselves and their children, they shoot themselves with their hands tied behind their backs. Just to set you up, innocent sheep. Because the world has nothing to do but think about you.

In Bucha, this is definitely a staged fake of Ukrainian propaganda, filmed on professional film equipment. Here is a video of the cleansing of Bucha by the Ukrainian police, there, for the whole time, a corpse in military uniform flashed in the frame once, there are no civilian corpses there. The decision to provocation under a false flag was apparently made by Ukraine later.
According to my estimates, a grouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine numbering up to 15 thousand people is blocked in Mariupol, in the port area and at the Azovstal plant. Under Azovstal there is a whole underground city with many floors, in which there are a lot of interesting things that it is impossible or impractical to simply bomb and blow up, so it is being stormed by the marines and Kadyrov's Chechen militants, together with the people's militia of Donbass. Rumor has it that the Russians have captured US Major General Roger L. Cloutier Jr. and many more NATO troops are trapped in a bunker near Azovstal. They also say that there is a huge bio-laboratory where they conducted experiments on living people abducted from the Donbass. There is a version that there is a disassembled nuclear warhead, but I find it conspiratorial. I think the bunker will be taken soon and we will find out what is really there.

Objective facts show that in 48 hours Ukraine lost its navy and significant losses in the air fleet, and in 72 hours it was thrown back from the border with Russia by 100-150 kilometers, having lost the chance to shoot at Russian territory from artillery and even its own the most long-range missile Tochka-U. During the month of the operation, the Ukrainian army did not conduct a single serious counter-offensive. The entire military infrastructure has significantly degraded, the airfields have been destroyed, the oil refinery has been destroyed, the army of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has been immobilized in the Donbass and cannot leave their fortified positions. In the south, landing from the sea threatens Odessa and Nikolaev, in Mariupol the Armed Forces of Ukraine have no chance to get out of the encirclement.

Once Mariupol casualties are counted, it's likely that Putin will have killed more people in Donbas in a couple of months than there were conflict deaths during the prior 8 years.

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Edit: looks like Putin's propaganda will need a new version of the Bucha massacre denial. NYT dug up Maxar satellite pictures that show dead people appearing on the streets weeks ago, during Russian occupation, and not - like Kremlin apologists were claiming here in this thread - after Russians ran away.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html (paywall)

It is just like the continuous pattern repetition on the post, people speaking of the issues in the Donbas, as if Putin could care at all about the actual people living in there and if they could, if ever given a honestly free choice - not like the "referendums" held, chose to join this or that country without any consequence.

This war is unrelated to nazism, will of people, the president being this or that,... it is simply a power-grab from Putin because he has failed to bring the old soviet controlled countries back under his Tzardom by offering an appealing alliance or economic advantages. This is simply absolutism and supremacism (I am so surprised he uses the nazi argument on others).

I agree with you, actually

So, everything what goes against Russiaan narrative is fake? I still remember how Russians lost in their lies about hospital in Nariupol. First, Konashnenkov from Defence ministry said that it was fake staged by Ukraine, a bit later Lavrov said that hospital was base of Azov.

This video is edited and cut so much that I would be sceptical about things said in it. And as I understand, she is in Russia, so, in fear of her own security, she may say what they told her to say. BTW, she isn't actress ajnymore like Russians accused her first?

That referendum and these self proclaimed states is a joke. Such referendums is worth nothing. You simply can't make referendum in one region of country and announce independence. It goes against constitution of Ukraine. Such questions should be solved in referendum made in whole country. Same stuff about Crimea.
And about "genocide" - Russia is responsible for it. Until 2014 people were living in peace there, until Russkij mir didn't came.

This article from the Ukrainian news site "Укpaїнcькa пpaвдa" from April 1st may provide additional clarity about dates and the rest. - https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/1/7336277/ (in English)


The 24-minutes interview with Marianna Podgurskaya (Vyshemirskaya) was published two days ago. - https://youtu.be/IEJ9xG6-Va0 (in Russian)

So, following your argument, Putin's army is super-mighty and Russia super-suoer-great and they have not been resisted just by what your media define as a "gay, nazi, jewish, actor and homo" (only nazi is an insult really), but it was because he had people prepared and business people backing him up?

So, your basis to consider that Europe should consider Putin's Russia's army and might a problem is just because all Europe is not ruled by drug consuming actors with well prepared people around? If you ask me, that is quite precisely how Europe is run, so seems that it is ok.

Seriously now, the level of ineffectiveness shown by Putin's army has not precisely increased its reputation. Is like if you want to bully the weak guy on the school and you come home with a broken nose and still call it a "victory" and then go and tell the rest of the guys "learn from that". I would be laughing if it weren't for all the soldiers and civilian losses in both sides.

The coviads scamdemic was/is kind of in the same mind-blowing category.  For a while I was expecting at least some fraction of the peeps to come around as we entered into the die-off phase, but that never happened and it doesn't look like it will.

It really does seem to be basically the cyber equivalent of the Zombie Apocalypse that we are in now.  I hang around both because I've been an inveterate troll for three decades, but more than that to try to understand 'the enemy' in order to figure out how to deal with them because they will be a ballooning problem as time goes by.  It's not really fair to categorize them as 'enemy' since it isn't really how I feel about most of them (the fake ones leading the choir are the exception.)  But they are also not recoverable so there is little point in dealing with them (trying to convince them of anything) on an individual level.  Understanding the dynamics which animate them and trying to cut that down as much as possible on a systemic level is the only way to potentially make a difference.

Russian forces held the city for a month. There are mass graves. Were Ukrainians sneaking into the city, killing people, and burying them just to frame Russians?


She said "I'm not into politics" and her interview was heavily edited to make it sound like Azov was in the building, which it wasn't.


Nearly every building in Mariupol has been shelled or bombarded by Russian military. Witnesses confirm that this is going on every day for 7-8 hours. There is no need to stage anything.

Same here...just can't stand lies and hypocrisy...as war itself is not horrible enough
Its not that Russians are not to blame, but we're witnessing media warfare never
seen before, and it often requires of us to be idiots to swallow it (Ghost of Kiev,
Russians driving tanks in Kiev over civil cars on day 1 of invasion etc)

Anyway, the time does not converge, the Russian army left Bucha on March 30, the video of the mayor about the victory was recorded on March 31 (posted on the network on April 1, but he says in the video that "March 31 will go down in history, etc."). Here is a detailed analysis of this staged video, read the full material is quite extensive.

Those fakes were also laid out in detail on the bones. The main star of the story about the maternity hospital turned out to be beauty blogger Marianna Podgurskaya, who then gave an interview in which she told what exactly happened. The theater was blown up by the Azov militants, trying to stage a rather absurd Russian bombardment.

I didn’t say that those videos were documentary, I meant that Ukrainian propaganda, releasing such fantasy videos with fairly high-quality rendering, discredited itself in order not to believe any photo and video evidence of the Ukrainian side at first, and then, after a deeper analysis, make sure that this is really fake.

Zelensky is a mediocre actor, but his success in the political arena once again clearly showed that public politics is show business. There are a lot of people from show business in Zelensky’s headquarters, and in the information war against Russia, these show business skills are actively used by him. Informational reasons are being invented, stuffing, fakes and provocations are being actively created, mass consciousness is being manipulated, plausible myths are being created, and everywhere lies, lies, lies. No matter how great the real successes of Russia in this operation, it is important how Ukrainian propaganda presents them to creditors from the West. This is the only reason why I am writing here, wasting my time for free every day, although it would be wiser for me to remain silent. I just don't like lies.

It's a large city. Russians had left but surveying the damage takes time. One of the first reports of bodies on a street was posted within a day, not two days later:

https://twitter.com/ViktoriiaUAH/status/1509985789404459011

Not to mention a drone video of a roadside execution a few weeks ago and other evidence that aligns with what was found in the aftermath of the retreat.


Saying so doesn't make it so.


Fucking hell... no one is claiming that this appeal-to-NATO video is a documentary. If that's your "proof" of fakes then you're either far dumber than I thought or your handlers think that we're all idiots.

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1502526143806726145

Well, I do not agree, but every insult you throw to the guy that actually resisted Putin is backfiring, you know? Like "Putin could not deal with a drug addict comedian, homo-erotic dancer (not sure that's an insult or a hobby?) and now he is trying to find someone his age to fight with to see it that's any easier (Biden)"


Yeah, nobody would get near him after that.

And already a druggie, homo-erotic dancer, and general post-Soviet billionaire Oligarch butt-boy.

Anyway, I'm guessing that Putin is more than happy to have Zelensky as the titular head of Ukraine (and Biden of America) and if there will be a way to arrange for him to continue on in his present role, Putin would certainly oblige.

Rumor has it that Putin is impossible to depose because he bathes in the menstrual blood of young virgins. Therefore, I prefer to set more realistic goals for myself.

Seriously, Zelensky was a comedian before becoming a president. Yes, that is the guy that Putin said wanted out, threw his army after and failed.

 Are you trying the same path? I mean, becoming a comedian to then depose Putin?