Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 306.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: DaRude on March 16, 2022, 11:22:22 PM

Why are you just alluding to things, but can't clearly state your position on why UA keeps calling off evacuations or only allowing few thousand cars per day out of Mariupol? You truly believe that its out of concern for those civilians safety, and that they're are better off without food in the city about to be attacked? Hope no one here is in this position, but if your relatives were there, what would you recommend to them? Stay in without food/water for the attack or try to leave under the red cross?

Here are many reasons: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60736845
And here: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/16/frightening-evacuees-describe-harrowing-escape-from-mariupol

How is that not enough for you? You still believe that UN, Red Cross, etc can fight Russians off and enforce the corridor? The city is surrounded. Your problem was that Ukrainians allegedly didn't let people out. Now some people are getting out but you're still blaming them that they can't get everyone out at once.

Quote from: DaRude on March 16, 2022, 11:22:22 PM

Edit: Like you I don't KNOW the answer and can only guess, but outright dismissing the idea that a neo-nazi group is capable of doing things that have been done for as long as there have been wars, and calling it absurd, seems dishonest at best.

No need to guess, there are sufficient confirmed reports of Russian forces bombing and shooting civilian targets, including evacuation vehicles. This also makes the "human shield" nonsense invalid, because it wouldn't shield anything.

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1786

In order to dump coins one must have coins

Quote from: suchmoon on March 16, 2022, 10:45:18 PM

Quote from: DaRude on March 16, 2022, 10:20:14 PM

I see four possible answers
-It was Azov that blew it up (seems to be Russian argument)
-It was used by UA side to attack from, so its a fair target for RU.
-It was a RU mistake
-RU side just decided to risk its plane and use a bomb on civilians instead targeting nazi Azov (because Putin craves more innocent blood)

Still seeing ghosts even after overwhelming evidence of Putinists just bombing shit indiscriminately... or shooting civilians in cold blood. You're a true believer.

Quote from: DaRude on March 16, 2022, 10:20:14 PM

What concerns me is why 350.000 people are still not allowed to leave Mariupol!! Why people who seem to care so much about human casualties, are not outraged that 350.000 civilians are forced to stay in a besieged city with a humanitarian crisis? Is the concern for their safety still the official reason for calling off evacuations? But then how come 20,000 residents have left Mariupol in private cars so far? Why only letting few thousand go per day is fine but not all 350.000 in buses?

Again you have to ignore everything that's happened so far, the siege of Mariupol itself, the attacks of Russian forces on civilians and civilian objects (including those same cars leaving Mariupol), the humanitarian convoy held by Russian forces in Berdyansk, anything that doesn't fit your narrative, so that you could still claim that there is something else going on other than Putin exterminating the civilian population of Ukraine.

The whole "azov keeping people hostage" thing is absurd seeing how any other city that's not completely encircled by Russians is being evacuated, why are you still clinging to it.

As of 15 March UN recorded 726 civilians killed. Today More than 3,000 cars from besieged Mariupol arrive in Zaporizhzhia can you point me to a statement from Red Cross where they say that the passage was not safe and one side didn't keep promises it agreed to? (Lets restrain ourselves from siting biased sources)

Why are you just alluding to things, but can't clearly state your position on why UA keeps calling off evacuations or only allowing few thousand cars per day out of Mariupol? You truly believe that its out of concern for those civilians safety, and that they're are better off without food in the city about to be attacked? Hope no one here is in this position, but if your relatives were there, what would you recommend to them? Stay in without food/water for the attack or try to leave under the red cross?

Edit: Like you I don't KNOW the answer and can only guess, but outright dismissing the idea that a neo-nazi group is capable of doing things that have been done for as long as there have been wars, and calling it absurd, seems dishonest at best.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: DaRude on March 16, 2022, 10:20:14 PM

I see four possible answers
-It was Azov that blew it up (seems to be Russian argument)
-It was used by UA side to attack from, so its a fair target for RU.
-It was a RU mistake
-RU side just decided to risk its plane and use a bomb on civilians instead targeting nazi Azov (because Putin craves more innocent blood)

Still seeing ghosts even after overwhelming evidence of Putinists just bombing shit indiscriminately... or shooting civilians in cold blood. You're a true believer.

Quote from: DaRude on March 16, 2022, 10:20:14 PM

What concerns me is why 350.000 people are still not allowed to leave Mariupol!! Why people who seem to care so much about human casualties, are not outraged that 350.000 civilians are forced to stay in a besieged city with a humanitarian crisis? Is the concern for their safety still the official reason for calling off evacuations? But then how come 20,000 residents have left Mariupol in private cars so far? Why only letting few thousand go per day is fine but not all 350.000 in buses?

Again you have to ignore everything that's happened so far, the siege of Mariupol itself, the attacks of Russian forces on civilians and civilian objects (including those same cars leaving Mariupol), the humanitarian convoy held by Russian forces in Berdyansk, anything that doesn't fit your narrative, so that you could still claim that there is something else going on other than Putin exterminating the civilian population of Ukraine.

The whole "azov keeping people hostage" thing is absurd seeing how any other city that's not completely encircled by Russians is being evacuated, why are you still clinging to it.

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1786

In order to dump coins one must have coins

Quote from: suchmoon on March 16, 2022, 03:56:40 PM

Quote from: Tash on March 16, 2022, 03:46:58 PM

That wasn't the question. Why would someone cramp that many people in the middle of nowwhere. Any cellar in a house is saver, even the subway.
If have no idea if even a single person died there, if so it looks more like a sacrifice like Normandy .......

No, that's exactly the question that needs to be asked instead of your straw man bullshit. Why bomb a theater? Why bomb civilian housing for two weeks so they become homeless and have to shelter in other buildings, such as a theater? What about people who don't have a "cellar", open season on them?

Subway in Mariupol, yeah right Roll Eyes

I see four possible answers
-It was Azov that blew it up (seems to be Russian argument)
-It was used by UA side to attack from, so its a fair target for RU.
-It was a RU mistake
-RU side just decided to risk its plane and use a bomb on civilians instead of targeting nazi Azov (because Putin craves more innocent blood)

The scenarios can be debated by the keyboard warriors.

What concerns me is why 350.000 people are still not allowed to leave Mariupol!! Why people who seem to care so much about human casualties, are not outraged that 350.000 civilians are forced to stay in a besieged city with a humanitarian crisis? Is the concern for their safety still the official reason for calling off evacuations? But then how come 20,000 residents have left Mariupol in private cars so far? Why only letting few thousand go per day is fine but not all 350.000 in buses? Who benefits from keeping civilians in the city?

Shouldn't everyone concerned for innocent civilian lives be talking about this, and putting more pressure on Red Cross/UN to make sure people can evacuate so things like this won't happen again?

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2688

Merit: 1468

Quote from: KingScorpio on March 16, 2022, 08:11:36 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on March 16, 2022, 07:08:58 PM

In 2-3 weeks, Ukrainians will proceed to the offensive, unless Putin brings another 300K army (Chinese or general draft) to Ukraine.

The pro-Russian gangs will be destroyed in Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea areas.

The offensive to recapture temporarily occupied territories will probably take a couple of months, maybe more,
depending on the desire of Putin to sink Russia into economic depression.

With this barbaric aggression, Putin completely destroyed any support that he had from ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

Pro Russian Gangs?

are you insane?

those people wanted not to live under a couped in Government,

Ukraine Comitted a Genocide and it must pay for it.

Ukranian Nazis' Cant Win, they will end up being the Nazis and Genociders one Way or the Other.

at the same time those that are now backing them will abandon them, as they can't be seen supporting a Neonazi Ideology.

Russia had a chance to present their evidence of genocide in Donbas in front of ICJ, instead, they refused to defend themselves:

https://www.icj-cij.org/public/files/case-related/182/182-20220316-SUM-01-00-EN.pdf

The court found that they are in fact committing acts of genocide and ordered them to stop this aggression.

Saying shit is not the same thing as a fact. They embarrassed themselves and further isolated themselves.
The ICJ exposed their lie.

coolcoinz

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1103

Quote from: LTU_btc on March 16, 2022, 07:35:02 PM

I really don't see China getting involved in this war. Why they would need it. It's more likely that Belarus army will help them. Recently people heard explosions in few Belarus cities. Either it was attack from Ukraine or provocation from Russia.
And Russia can't send too much forces to Ukraine and leve other regions uncovered. And BTW, Ukraine is already making counter attacks.

For China it's better if Russia is weak. With the way China operates they want weak everyone, but they are also facing their own problems like tensions with Japan, Taiwan and the US. They also don't have enough natural resources to run their industry. They need a lot of oil and are trying to strike deals with various countries to get it. Recently they've been talking with the UAE.
Belarus doesn't want to help Russia anymore. There were articles that they are closing their airports to Russian military aircraft. I guess nobody likes the fact that Russians are bombing civilian targets and lying that they aren't. Even Lukashenko, who is an expert liar himself, had enough.

Russia lost this war because no outcome can be a win for them. Even if the government would gave them unconditional surrender the people wouldn't accept occupants who murder women and children and Russia doesn't have the manpower to hold Ukraine under a boot. Also, the world doesn't recognize Donbas as an independent country. Even if they manage to take it away from Ukraine somehow, this wasn't worth the lives of so many people and so much lost equipment. If they seize properties of companies, it's game over for them. They'll show the world that it's too risky to invest in Russia.

KingScorpio

sr. member

Activity: 1470

Merit: 325

Quote from: af_newbie on March 16, 2022, 07:08:58 PM

In 2-3 weeks, Ukrainians will proceed to the offensive, unless Putin brings another 300K army (Chinese or general draft) to Ukraine.

The pro-Russian gangs will be destroyed in Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea areas.

The offensive to recapture temporarily occupied territories will probably take a couple of months, maybe more,
depending on the desire of Putin to sink Russia into economic depression.

With this barbaric aggression, Putin completely destroyed any support that he had from ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

Pro Russian Gangs?

are you insane?

those people wanted not to live under a couped in Government,

Ukraine Comitted a Genocide and it must pay for it.

Ukranian Nazis' Cant Win, they will end up being the Nazis and Genociders one Way or the Other.

at the same time those that are now backing them will abandon them, as they can't be seen supporting a Neonazi Ideology.

LTU_btc

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1338

Slava Ukraini!

Quote from: suchmoon on March 16, 2022, 02:26:26 PM

Give it an hour and it will turn out to have been an Azov base, once Putinists realize that they can no longer deny the attack.

I already saw such explanation in few russian telegram channels. How surprising...

Quote from: af_newbie on March 16, 2022, 07:08:58 PM

In 2-3 weeks, Ukrainians will proceed to the offensive, unless Putin brings another 300K army (Chinese or general draft) to Ukraine.

I really don't see China getting involved in this war. Why they would need it. It's more likely that Belarus army will help them. Recently people heard explosions in few Belarus cities. Either it was attack from Ukraine or provocation from Russia.
And Russia can't send too much forces to Ukraine and leve other regions uncovered. And BTW, Ukraine is already making counter attacks.

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2688

Merit: 1468

Quote from: KingScorpio on March 16, 2022, 04:40:05 PM

Quote from: aoluain on March 16, 2022, 04:25:36 PM

Sounds like Tash is trying to defend the indefensible, very very few here are
buying it, the evidence from Ukraine and the 2,500,000 Ukrainians left with
nothing except what they wear and carry is far more damning of how Russia
have handled this than any propaganda supporting Russias claims.

the whole problem why this war is escalating is:

Ukranians are defending their corrupt government that commited a genocide. the defense of this government and them being able to lie about what happene, they do not want to search for proof, maybee the ukranians considered the russian speaking ukranians or the eastern ukranians never even as full citizens. (nazi regime)

that is exactly the issue, nato is even fueling it, they think if they somehow defeat russia they can destroy all Evidence about the genocide in Donbass, unfortunately thats not how the world works.

if nato would have handed over zelinski so putin could have prosecuted him over the genocide in donbass the war would have been over quickly maybe even without a single shot.

but instead they escalated the war.

this might even end up with the world having 2 United nations one backed by the USA and its Western Allies, and One Backed by Russia and China.

In 2-3 weeks, Ukrainians will proceed to the offensive, unless Putin brings another 300K army (Chinese or general draft) to Ukraine.

The pro-Russian gangs will be destroyed in Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea areas.

The offensive to recapture temporarily occupied territories will probably take a couple of months, maybe more,
depending on the desire of Putin to sink Russia into economic depression.

With this barbaric aggression, Putin completely destroyed any support that he had from ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

KingScorpio

sr. member

Activity: 1470

Merit: 325

Quote from: aoluain on March 16, 2022, 04:25:36 PM

Sounds like Tash is trying to defend the indefensible, very very few here are
buying it, the evidence from Ukraine and the 2,500,000 Ukrainians left with
nothing except what they wear and carry is far more damning of how Russia
have handled this than any propaganda supporting Russias claims.

the whole problem why this war is escalating is:

Ukranians are defending their corrupt government that commited a genocide. the defense of this government and them being able to lie about what happene, they do not want to search for proof, maybee the ukranians considered the russian speaking ukranians or the eastern ukranians never even as full citizens. (nazi regime)

that is exactly the issue, nato is even fueling it, they think if they somehow defeat russia they can destroy all Evidence about the genocide in Donbass, unfortunately thats not how the world works.

if nato would have handed over zelinski so putin could have prosecuted him over the genocide in donbass the war would have been over quickly maybe even without a single shot.

but instead they escalated the war.

this might even end up with the world having 2 United nations one backed by the USA and its Western Allies, and One Backed by Russia and China.

aoluain

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1268

Quote from: Tash on March 16, 2022, 02:37:06 AM

Quote from: aoluain on March 15, 2022, 04:09:41 PM

Well there are rules of war, and what we are seeing over the 3 weeks of this war
is that Russia as the aggressor in this has broken some already with its indiscriminate
bombing of many urban centres in Ukraine.

The reports I hear and see appear to state that Russian forces will fire upon non
military vehicles. I suppose if they are willing to target hospitals why would
other vehicles and persons like press be off limits?

So you say everyone is lying exept you and the media.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1503459475365191686
https://youtu.be/mWQh2XJtGYk
older
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr80GR0wg2Q
https://www.bitchute.com/video/zERoYzWE9r9P/
https://youtu.be/Lbiplu3Cyjg

Just like not all civilian houses and apartments and not all schools and hospitals
have been bombed, not all Russian soldiers are like these 4 or 5 wanting to have
innocent ukrainians believe them.

Quote from: suchmoon on March 16, 2022, 03:56:40 PM

Quote from: Tash on March 16, 2022, 03:46:58 PM

That wasn't the question. Why would someone cramp that many people in the middle of nowwhere. Any cellar in a house is saver, even the subway.
If have no idea if even a single person died there, if so it looks more like a sacrifice like Normandy .......

No, that's exactly the question that needs to be asked instead of your straw man bullshit. Why bomb a theater? Why bomb civilian housing for two weeks so they become homeless and have to shelter in other buildings, such as a theater? What about people who don't have a "cellar", open season on them?

Subway in Mariupol, yeah right Roll Eyes

Sounds like Tash is trying to defend the indefensible, very very few here are
buying it, the evidence from Ukraine and the 2,500,000 Ukrainians left with
nothing except what they wear and carry is far more damning of how Russia
have handled this than any propaganda supporting Russias claims.

KingScorpio

sr. member

Activity: 1470

Merit: 325

Quote from: suchmoon on March 16, 2022, 03:56:40 PM

Quote from: Tash on March 16, 2022, 03:46:58 PM

That wasn't the question. Why would someone cramp that many people in the middle of nowwhere. Any cellar in a house is saver, even the subway.
If have no idea if even a single person died there, if so it looks more like a sacrifice like Normandy .......

No, that's exactly the question that needs to be asked instead of your straw man bullshit. Why bomb a theater? Why bomb civilian housing for two weeks so they become homeless and have to shelter in other buildings, such as a theater? What about people who don't have a "cellar", open season on them?

Subway in Mariupol, yeah right Roll Eyes

why do some ukranians protect a regime that commited a genocide?

putin wants the leadership of ukraine not to bombard ukranians and their infrastructure,

politicians are all mad, they are trapped in horrible heuristics.

and so are the people.

if ukranians wont support their president then putin might go further etc.

people are all torn in this madness and can't get out only god can help.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: Tash on March 16, 2022, 03:46:58 PM

That wasn't the question. Why would someone cramp that many people in the middle of nowwhere. Any cellar in a house is saver, even the subway.
If have no idea if even a single person died there, if so it looks more like a sacrifice like Normandy .......

No, that's exactly the question that needs to be asked instead of your straw man bullshit. Why bomb a theater? Why bomb civilian housing for two weeks so they become homeless and have to shelter in other buildings, such as a theater? What about people who don't have a "cellar", open season on them?

Subway in Mariupol, yeah right Roll Eyes

Tash

sr. member

Activity: 1190

Merit: 305

Pro financial, medical liberty

Quote from: suchmoon on March 16, 2022, 03:35:17 PM

Quote from: Tash on March 16, 2022, 03:04:25 PM

In what way is a solitary building standing in the middle of a park saver than a private house?

So... Putin bombed it because it's not safe?

That wasn't the question. Why would someone cramp that many people in the middle of nowwhere. Any cellar in a house is saver, even the subway.
If have no idea if even a single person died there, if so it looks more like a sacrifice like Normandy .......

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: Tash on March 16, 2022, 03:04:25 PM

In what way is a solitary building standing in the middle of a park saver than a private house?

So... Putin bombed it because it's not safe?

Tash

sr. member

Activity: 1190

Merit: 305

Pro financial, medical liberty

Quote

Mariupol Drama Theater

In what way is a solitary building standing in the middle of a park saver than a private house?

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-mariupol-city-council-claims-russia-destroys-crowded-theater-live-updates/a-61140204

Quote

Video emerged of the Mariupol Drama Theater in the Ukrainian port city after it was flattened by a Russian bomb.

Hundreds of people were said to have been sheltering there at the time. Video from a recent local television station broadcast in Mariupol showed many people had sought shelter in the theater.

Quote

Russia's Ministry of Defense denied it had carried out a strike on the theater, Russian state-run Ria reported.

Give it an hour and it will turn out to have been an Azov base, once Putinists realize that they can no longer deny the attack.

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2688

Merit: 1468

Quote from: Tash on March 16, 2022, 02:37:06 AM

Quote from: aoluain on March 15, 2022, 04:09:41 PM

Well there are rules of war, and what we are seeing over the 3 weeks of this war
is that Russia as the aggressor in this has broken some already with its indiscriminate
bombing of many urban centres in Ukraine.

The reports I hear and see appear to state that Russian forces will fire upon non
military vehicles. I suppose if they are willing to target hospitals why would
other vehicles and persons like press be off limits?

So you say everyone is lying exept you and the media.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1503459475365191686

That is the same 'paratrooper' who was dropped north of Kyiv running around with a tablet and 10 other guys
and 'organizing' to take over villages around Kyiv?

Looks like the same 'media group' I saw a few days ago.

Are they still filming? I thought they were terminated yesterday.

Tash

sr. member

Activity: 1190

Merit: 305

Pro financial, medical liberty

Quote from: aoluain on March 15, 2022, 04:09:41 PM

Well there are rules of war, and what we are seeing over the 3 weeks of this war
is that Russia as the aggressor in this has broken some already with its indiscriminate
bombing of many urban centres in Ukraine.

The reports I hear and see appear to state that Russian forces will fire upon non
military vehicles. I suppose if they are willing to target hospitals why would
other vehicles and persons like press be off limits?

So you say everyone is lying exept you and the media.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1503459475365191686
https://youtu.be/mWQh2XJtGYk
older
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr80GR0wg2Q
https://www.bitchute.com/video/zERoYzWE9r9P/
https://youtu.be/Lbiplu3Cyjg

aoluain

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1268

Well there are rules of war, and what we are seeing over the 3 weeks of this war
is that Russia as the aggressor in this has broken some already with its indiscriminate
bombing of many urban centres in Ukraine.

The reports I hear and see appear to state that Russian forces will fire upon non
military vehicles. I suppose if they are willing to target hospitals why would
other vehicles and persons like press be off limits?

Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 306. (Read 60023 times)