Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 336. (Read 69440 times)

How does a reasonable, unbiased and feasible solution looks like for you on this war of agression:

NATO intervenes, Putin feels free to use non-conventional arsenal and attack NATO bases. Possible results:
a - Putin gets very scared, he sees that he may loose power and withdraws the army.
b - Putin goes harder, he cannot afford to loose face. Nato and Russian troops engage and by some miracle, Putin does not use any WMD. Relations are broken for decades, NATO and EU weaponize, Russia limps on a sanctioned economy.
c - Limited nuclear response (tactical or limited strategic) Ukraine radioactive for the next few decades as other bits of Europe and cities in Russia. Massive re-arming across the world, massive health and hunger across the world...
d - It escalates, first nuke fire, then second, then.... well...end of story and history.

NATO supports Ukraine with as much conventional means as to stop the ability of Putin to continue the war effectively.
a - Putin decides to keep the conquered land. He will be facing stiff opposition even funded by the West, the region may be on an undeclared war for decades.
b - Putin decides to reach a peace agreement that includes returning part of the conquered land. This looks like something that could be sustainable for both parties.
c - Putin completely withdraws in exchange for removing sanctions.
d - Putin puts all he is got and war escalates, we found ourselves on the first scenario.
e - Ukraine is not able to hold. A peace is achieve at the cost of massive loss of territory and a puppet government without military power.

On the second scenario, the chances of a massive catastrophe are much lower. And that is the better option, even for Ukraine that stands a chance of keeping large parts of the territory and have a very weakened neighbour that may not have the economics to wage further wars.

Now, consider that on the first scenario there is a chance of global or regional full nuclear destruction. Is that how a solution looks to anyone? Even if there is a 10% of that happening. It does not work for Ukraine either as they would likely be the first ones being nuked in all likelihood.

Albania
Belgium
Bulgaria
Canada
Croatia
Czechia
Denmark
Estonia
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Montenegro
Netherlands
North Macedonia
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Turkey
United Kingdom
United States

...we were able to split the atom and one country decided to nuke two cities, then that same country decided to start a war with another nuke country as it thought the second country wouldn't nuke it back. Now, don't laugh, but yeah they were wrong. In retrospect we have no idea how our species managed to make it this far. Good luck. -The End"

A total of 184 countries on Wednesday voted in favour of a resolution to demand the end of the US economic blockade on Cuba, for the 29th year in a row, with the United States and Israel voting against.

...

I see people using the terms carpet shelling/bombing, and encouraging escalations in Ukraine, but i'm pretty sure they don't know what those terms really mean. Just find it ironic how everyone wants to see Ukraine take on Russia, and they're even willing to sacrifice their...weapons for it. This is what US did in just 11 days (18–29 December 1972). Those that call for escalations are they really expecting Putin just to fold and not do the same thing US did? Or did Geneva convention change since 1972? Does Russia have much else to loose? What are the odds people put on Putin just folding? Sure double daring Putin with Ukraine seems like a great idea, i'm sure Ukraine will turn out just fine.
...

Your so-called soldiers are taken prisoner by whole platoons with equipment and their snotty generals. They do not understand what they are fighting for and hate those who sent them to die in Ukraine. They know that they are murderers, they know that they are killing unarmed people and even children, they are just shooting those who are standing in line for bread or for humanitarian aid. Their deaths are in vain, they don't even realize why they lived at all.

I see you are a big supporter of war. Believe in your righteous cause. I have a question: do you have such a great internet catch from the tank that you write here every ten minutes? Or do you still prefer to sit in a warm apartment (until you cut off the latest resources and the Internet) and write here, how well you understand the war and the politics of your low state? If the second option is yours, then why not change the situation and enlist in the army (until you are forcibly mobilized, it's still not far off), do not go to Ukraine and look at what your adorable army are doing here? An unforgettable experience will be guaranteed.

the Russians are trying to minimize civilian casualties

The appearance of negotiations between Russia and Ukraine is a farce, negotiations are going on without a ceasefire. The negotiators essentially do not decide anything, their composition makes one doubt their authority to decide anything at all. The operation will end when Russia reaches its goals in full, and the attempts of the Ukrainian side to negotiate better terms of surrender are ridiculous. I regret the losses on both sides, but it is unacceptable for Russia to show pity now, because it will be perceived by the West as a sign of weakness. Anyone who does not lay down their arms will be killed. I respect the Ukrainian soldiers who continue to fight without a chance to win, their death will be heroic, although in vain. Russia offers Ukrainian soldiers to surrender and save their lives, but cannot forbid them to die for their ideals, even if these Nazi ideals are unacceptable to Russia.

Except for the whole decision to bomb cities while cutting off their food, gas and electrify for weeks now.  These aren't things a military that's trying to minimize civilian casualties does.  Remember, they're in Ukraine.  The Russians are the ones invading Ukraine.  You realize that right?

the Russians are trying to minimize civilian casualties

Good joke!
But no, you are wrong: https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1499633290004905985
Russian propaganda seems to be efficient.
At least to fool yourself.

There is nothing left of Mariupol. It is gone. They did shell it nearly to flatness and Putin's ships are now destroying a massacring what's left.

No Ukraine is not in control, but, at this point, looks like Putin isn't either. He cannot withdraw without achieving significant objectives or his reputation would be gone and his Russia would, under his own vision, humiliated.

As harsh as it is to speak of the balance between human life and territory, I am afraid that yes, there is balance to be considered. The basis of this war is that Ukrainians do not want to be ruled by Putin and are willing to die for it.

On the weaponry, I think it is not a magic wand, but it is a game changer. With a man portable tank destroyer you have to get really close to a big nasty and ready to kill main battle tank - I would not want to be there honestly. If you can send a drone from 20 miles away and do the job at zero risk to the guy, it changes the game and - my point - it changes the economics. It makes destroying very expensive weapons relatively cheap.

Putin will push forward, but, as impressive as his army may appear, it has a limit. Producing good war stuff is really expensive and eventually does lead to the economical impossibility of waging war or doing so with some effectiveness.

During Operation Linebacker II, 741 B-52 sorties were dispatched to bomb North Vietnam; 729 completed their missions. B-52s dropped 15,237 tons of ordnance on 18 industrial and 14 military targets (including eight SAM sites) while fighter-bombers added another 5,000 tons of bombs to the tally.

As of 2022, it is the largest and heaviest combat aircraft, the fastest bomber in use and the largest and heaviest variable-sweep wing airplane ever flown...Two internal weapon bays for 45,000 kg (99,208 lb) of ordnance.

Putin shows NATO the capabilities of modern Russian weapons and how to fight - without general mobilization, without numerical superiority and without burning entire neighborhoods with fire.

Of course it's a success. What makes you think that a blitzkrieg was planned? From Russia, about 200 thousand soldiers take part in the operation, against 300 thousand soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (whom the West has been pumping up with weapons for many years and trained by NATO instructors) and with a total length of the front line of 3.5 thousand kilometers. Now look at the map of hostilities (if you do not believe the data of the Russian Defense Ministry, take the data that is published in the West). Or is it presented in the Ukrainian media as a tactical lure of Putin's soldiers to their territory before a decisive march on Moscow?  

Really?

Inside A White Supremacist Militia in Ukraine (by Time)

Ukraine Neo-Nazis Infiltrate EVERY LEVEL Of Military & Government (by The Jimmy Dore Show)

Ukraine's far-right children's camp: 'I want to bring up a warrior' (by The Guardian)

This is not Russian propaganda, these are investigations and reports from the Western media. Enjoy.

In 2022 images surfaced of Utkin purportedly showing Waffen SS collar tab and Reichsadler Eagle tattoos on his collar and chest. Additionally, several prominent members of the Wagner group have been photographed or recorded in Nazi uniforms or taking part in re-enactments of WWII events.

can anyone give me a real explanation for why people are tied up on poles in Ukraina? [...]

Pretty sure we'd see millions of casualties if Russia wanted to carpet shell a city. There's also no point of nuclear/chemical/biological attacks when there's a Father of All Bombs in your arsenal. Plus the hypersonic missile kinda proved that if Russia didn't care for civilians they could've take out Zelenksy on day one just with a press of a button.

Very doubtful of effectiveness of those switchblades, but sure lets imagine that they're a game changer as claimed. US litters every meter of Ukrainian soil with them along with ATGM and MANPADS. But what's the point, what's the end goal, is it to maximize damage on Russia at a cost of Ukraine or someone believes that Putin will just turn around and leave? Taking Afghanistan as an example, do you think civilians benefited from all of the advanced weapons Afghani soldiers received to fight Taliban? The benefit for US is pretty clear, US gets to fuck with Russia with minimal cost and zero risk to itself, sure why not, lets do another escalation. Now what options will Russia have? Either fold and go home to a guaranteed economical, political and possibly (physical?) suicide, or in a mirror reply to escalation with escalation. Either start getting military help from China, or raise the stakes that's where real carpet bombing will start, go full scorched earth like US in Vietnam. Cost/benefit for US is pretty clear, but is anyone still thinks that Ukraine is in control of any of this? Anyone dares to do a cost/benefit analysis on civilians if Ukraine accepts the terms or at this point they're pretty much committed to just being a pawn and have no choice but to be a battle ground for this east vs west game to their last citizen?

If you're still not disillusioned that this is about Ukraine. Here we have Macron saying
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-22-22/h_7c10a14208a9646586b8dc400c9a51f5

And then Biden saying That we're at inflection point for new world order can't imagine any of this is good for Ukraine and if warmongering will make things any better for Ukraine

My point wasn't that there are zero Nazis defending Ukraine right now.  Obviously there are Nazis on both sides of the battle.  In Ukraine, they basically have no political power and are really only relevant because they are pretty good at fighting and have been recruiting others to join (like any 'good' Nazi anywhere in the world).  

Then there's the Nazis on the other side:


Here's a pretty detailed paper, I've only gotten through part of it so far https://www.ifri.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/rnv95_uk_likhachev_far-right_radicals_final.pdf

...

Really?

Inside A White Supremacist Militia in Ukraine (by Time)

Ukraine Neo-Nazis Infiltrate EVERY LEVEL Of Military & Government (by The Jimmy Dore Show)

Ukraine's far-right children's camp: 'I want to bring up a warrior' (by The Guardian)

This is not Russian propaganda, these are investigations and reports from the Western media. Enjoy.

Russian ethnic and imperialist nationalism has shaped the official ideology of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics.[172] Far-right nationalist groups have played a greater role on the pro-Russian side of the conflict than on the Ukrainian side, especially at the beginning.[123][172] Leaders of the Donetsk People's Militia are closely linked to the neo-Nazi party Russian National Unity (RNU) led by Alexander Barkashov, which has recruited many fighters.[172][173][174] A former member of RNU, Pavel Gubarev, was founder of the Donbas People's Militia and first "governor" of the Donetsk People's Republic.[172][175] RNU is particularly linked to the Russian Orthodox Army, a religious ultranationalist unit which is part of the Donetsk People's Militia.[174][176] Other neo-Nazi units include the 'Rusich', 'Svarozhich' and 'Ratibor' battalions, which have Slavic swastikas on their badges.[172]

Totally agree with you. There were especially many of them in the maternity hospital, the Nazis (lots of which are jewish, of course, like their clown President) pretended to be pregnant so that they would not be suspected, but noone can fool the majestic russian army like that.

Only here such a question arises. How did russia, which has been declaring such a desperate struggle against the Nazis for so many years that they even have killed Stepan Bandera several times, miss the moment when there were so many of nationalists in Ukraine that entire cities had to be destroyed just to "denazify" them? Didn't they promote their pro-russian rats in the Ukrainian parliament? Didn't they give orders straight from moscow? How did it happen that they had to use such a powerful army for such a long time (after all, a month is not three days) to arrange a massacre of the Nazis? Probably, Azov has been secretly recruiting people all this time, only the stupid one will not understand this. But how could the liberating russia not notice this, if they have everything here "under control"? That`s a tricky question...

Yeah there must be hundreds of thousands of those "nationalists" in Mariupol alone because Russian forces had attacked nearly every building and they still haven't been able to take the city.

There are neo-Nazis in EVERY country in Europe.  In Ukraine, they have absolutely no political power, ZERO.

In short, it always arrives strictly only at the place where reconnaissance drones or space satellites recorded firing at the positions of Russian troops. An exception to this rule is military infrastructure objects confirmed by intelligence (military airfields, fuel and ammunition depots, etc.). This operation is also Putin's performance for NATO combat generals, who are closely watching what is happening and they are not brainwashed by inspiring propaganda, they soberly assess what is happening. Putin shows NATO the capabilities of modern Russian weapons and how to fight - without general mobilization, without numerical superiority and without burning entire neighborhoods with fire.

NATO does not get involved in this war - so the lesson is learned correctly. Biden said yesterday that the Kinzhal hypersonic missile is basically nothing special, it's just almost impossible to stop. It flies for 1000 kilometers at a speed of Mach 10 in a cloud of hot plasma, invisible to missile defense radars and at the same time able to maneuver. It is capable of hitting buried objects protected from nuclear weapons or, for example, an aircraft carrier. NATO thought it was a cartoon, because they have nothing like this in their arsenal, but it turned out to be a reality. Didn't the Russian Solntsepek system impress you? This is the one that destroyed the barracks at the express training center for reservists the night before yesterday. For the townsfolk, what is happening is a tragedy, but for the military, it's just work. And the Russian military is doing a good job.
Of course it's a success. What makes you think that a blitzkrieg was planned? From Russia, about 200 thousand soldiers take part in the operation, against 300 thousand soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (whom the West has been pumping up with weapons for many years and trained by NATO instructors) and with a total length of the front line of 3.5 thousand kilometers. Now look at the map of hostilities (if you do not believe the data of the Russian Defense Ministry, take the data that is published in the West). Or is it presented in the Ukrainian media as a tactical lure of Putin's soldiers to their territory before a decisive march on Moscow?  

Really?

Inside A White Supremacist Militia in Ukraine (by Time)

Ukraine Neo-Nazis Infiltrate EVERY LEVEL Of Military & Government (by The Jimmy Dore Show)

Ukraine's far-right children's camp: 'I want to bring up a warrior' (by The Guardian)

This is not Russian propaganda, these are investigations and reports from the Western media. Enjoy.