Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 67. (Read 76649 times)

Quote from: paxmao on May 16, 2024, 02:04:25 PM

Croatia, 4 million people, managed to mobilize 250 000 (without any foreign help, and actually embargo on weapon buying) for final liberation offensive.

If Ukraine, 40m people country, cant mobilize at least 2 million after receiving hundreds of billions help

then obviously Ukrainians don't feel its worth it, for whatever reason

Mobilizing 2 millions in 40 millions people country looks nice and easy on paper, but reality is a bit different. From these 40 millions we should exclude women, children and elderly people. Then there is at least few millions people who left country during war and also people who alredy serving in army or died. So, actual number that you can potentially mobilize is so much smaller.
Why there issituations like in video above. In cities which are more far away from front line like Lviv, Kyiv, Odesa people are trying to live normal life. They are going no night clubs, pubs, cinema, concerts and etc. These who had motivation to defend country went fighting long time ago, others don't want to change their normal life, leave families and etc go to trenches, and drones and artillery flying above their heads. They want to continue living normally as they used before war, but they think that others have to fight for them. Don'y know what solutions for this problem is.

I do not think there is a huge mobilisation problem in that sense. I think the problem is that Ukraine population pyramid already suffered massively after the fall of the USSR due to the economy shock. You need people in a country and that people need to be young and able to raise children. Those that were first to be called are the ones that are older and probably had kids. Calling the young is a difficult decision, but they would eventually be used by Ruzzia later to fight for them in the next war, so anyway they are going to have to fight.

Would they die for Putin or would they live for their own country and right to choose their destiny?

I do get it that they want to go about their normal lives, who would not? It is difficult to assume that is simply not possible any longer.

Personally, I think UK should send troops over there...after all, they wanted Ukrainians to fight instead negotiating

I though you said that NATO was already there? NATO but not UK?

You are bit obsessed with the UK btw, but I guess that is quite common as it is a country that has been at war with nearly every other nation so at a point it has probably invaded or somehow fought you ancestors. However, in the end it was only thanks to the US and perhaps the UK that Milosevic was stopped and life could become something like normal in the Balkans.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on May 16, 2024, 01:52:54 PM

Quote from: LTU_btc on May 16, 2024, 01:52:54 PM

Croatia, 4 million people, managed to mobilize 250 000 (without any foreign help, and actually embargo on weapon buying) for final liberation offensive.

If Ukraine, 40m people country, cant mobilize at least 2 million after receiving hundreds of billions help

then obviously Ukrainians don't feel its worth it, for whatever reason

Mobilizing 2 millions in 40 millions people country looks nice and easy on paper, but reality is a bit different. From these 40 millions we should exclude women, children and elderly people. Then there is at least few millions people who left country during war and also people who alredy serving in army or died. So, actual number that you can potentially mobilize is so much smaller.
Why there issituations like in video above. In cities which are more far away from front line like Lviv, Kyiv, Odesa people are trying to live normal life. They are going no night clubs, pubs, cinema, concerts and etc. These who had motivation to defend country went fighting long time ago, others don't want to change their normal life, leave families and etc go to trenches, and drones and artillery flying above their heads. They want to continue living normally as they used before war, but they think that others have to fight for them. Don'y know what solutions for this problem is.

I do not think there is a huge mobilisation problem in that sense. I think the problem is that Ukraine population pyramid already suffered massively after the fall of the USSR due to the economy shock. You need people in a country and that people need to be young and able to raise children. Those that were first to be called are the ones that are older and probably had kids. Calling the young is a difficult decision, but they would eventually be used by Ruzzia later to fight for them in the next war, so anyway they are going to have to fight.

Would they die for Putin or would they live for their own country and right to choose their destiny?

I do get it that they want to go about their normal lives, who would not? It is difficult to assume that is simply not possible any longer.

Personally, I think UK should send troops over there...after all, they wanted Ukrainians to fight instead negotiating

paxmao

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Croatia, 4 million people, managed to mobilize 250 000 (without any foreign help, and actually embargo on weapon buying) for final liberation offensive.

If Ukraine, 40m people country, cant mobilize at least 2 million after receiving hundreds of billions help

then obviously Ukrainians don't feel its worth it, for whatever reason

Mobilizing 2 millions in 40 millions people country looks nice and easy on paper, but reality is a bit different. From these 40 millions we should exclude women, children and elderly people. Then there is at least few millions people who left country during war and also people who alredy serving in army or died. So, actual number that you can potentially mobilize is so much smaller.
Why there issituations like in video above. In cities which are more far away from front line like Lviv, Kyiv, Odesa people are trying to live normal life. They are going no night clubs, pubs, cinema, concerts and etc. These who had motivation to defend country went fighting long time ago, others don't want to change their normal life, leave families and etc go to trenches, and drones and artillery flying above their heads. They want to continue living normally as they used before war, but they think that others have to fight for them. Don'y know what solutions for this problem is.

I do not think there is a huge mobilisation problem in that sense. I think the problem is that Ukraine population pyramid already suffered massively after the fall of the USSR due to the economy shock. You need people in a country and that people need to be young and able to raise children. Those that were first to be called are the ones that are older and probably had kids. Calling the young is a difficult decision, but they would eventually be used by Ruzzia later to fight for them in the next war, so anyway they are going to have to fight.

Would they die for Putin or would they live for their own country and right to choose their destiny?

I do get it that they want to go about their normal lives, who would not? It is difficult to assume that is simply not possible any longer.

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Quote from: DaRude on May 15, 2024, 09:21:27 PM

Croatia, 4 million people, managed to mobilize 250 000 (without any foreign help, and actually embargo on weapon buying) for final liberation offensive.

If Ukraine, 40m people country, cant mobilize at least 2 million after receiving hundreds of billions help

then obviously Ukrainians don't feel its worth it, for whatever reason

Mobilizing 2 millions in 40 millions people country looks nice and easy on paper, but reality is a bit different. From these 40 millions we should exclude women, children and elderly people. Then there is at least few millions people who left country during war and also people who alredy serving in army or died. So, actual number that you can potentially mobilize is so much smaller.
Why there issituations like in video above. In cities which are more far away from front line like Lviv, Kyiv, Odesa people are trying to live normal life. They are going no night clubs, pubs, cinema, concerts and etc. These who had motivation to defend country went fighting long time ago, others don't want to change their normal life, leave families and etc go to trenches, and drones and artillery flying above their heads. They want to continue living normally as they used before war, but they think that others have to fight for them. Don'y know what solutions for this problem is.

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[...]

[daRude filtering news that are negative to Ukraine (again and again) removed]

And it happened again. The western weapons that according to you "do not work" have "not worked" again. Yesterday an S400 radar & one erector/launcher were destroyed - or according to daRude the radar, the platform and possibly 3 SU planes heroically intercepted the missiles by putting themselves in the middle.

And today... well Ruzzia followed the same strategy of interception with another set of those weapons that according to be.open were destroyed several times over before they arrived and according to daRude "do not work" and "are not useful".

This time it seems that they reached Sebastopol, Belbek airfield (again) and several other locations in Crimea, including a submarine base.

I am sure all the Ruzzian troops in the ground feel very conforted by your "precision-posting". Funny thing is that this attack was obvious - one strike to the air-defence and next day a bloody night all around.

You can see for yourself the fire detection:

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:7days;@34.40,45.01,9.66z

Quote from: DaRude on May 15, 2024, 09:21:27 PM

[...]
How would Trump gain at least to a point my respect? If Ruzzia were to give a meaningful chunk of he Ukrainian land they have taken. ...
'("meaningful" could cover up to 30 km of Moscow)' - you're just all kinds of confused now aren't you?

Nope. I will repeat it for you: meaningful could be anything, e.g. 30 km from Moscow. If Trump achieves that I promise will give BA 300 merit (50 a month, 6 months). If he achieves it while serving in prison for fraud, as he should, I will give 1000 merit to BA and donate 500 US in bitcoin for his re-election (I think he plans to be president 3 or 4 times).

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Quote from: suchmoon on May 15, 2024, 03:16:53 PM

Quote from: paxmao on May 14, 2024, 12:20:33 PM

I agree...I'm totally puzzled why USA continues to pour money there, they could for example collect all human feces off the streets of San Francisco.

Good old Soviet propaganda nugget "but there are homeless people in America!@!!!"
~

And it was said by the very people who were living in the USA with their families working as Soviet journalists enjoying all the delights of the West. They were telling this to the people who were never allowed to leave their country. It's disgusting, and Putin wants to bring it back.

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Quote from: DaRude on May 13, 2024, 04:28:08 PM

Quote from: paxmao on May 13, 2024, 03:23:52 AM

...

How would Trump gain at least to a point my respect? If Ruzzia were to give a meaningful chunk of he Ukrainian land they have taken. THAT would proof some statesmanship. For a funny example, I can close a deal in the name of Ukraine that gives Putin half of the country and two major cities (for example), or for that matter sell you a car and on top pay you to take it, but that makes me a stupid not a businessman.

Interesting watching even you pivot from back to borders of 1991 to would be nice to get just a meaningful chunk back. Biggest tragedy is that it was on the table during the negotiations before Johnson torpedoed them now looks like too much Russian blood has been spilled for that to be acceptable, that's the problem with raising the stakes.

Quote from: paxmao on May 13, 2024, 03:11:00 PM

...
There is a more interesting topic, but you may not like it or most likely you will say it is not true, but anyway: Today has marked the record of Ruzzian soldiers killed. Not only that, it seems that is NOT the record of vehicles destroyed. If you wish to give credit, 1700 Ruzzian soldiers died. They did not have adequate vehicle support.

I guess you'd like to question this?

The cause is the Kharkiv attack vector, which is an absolute crazy idea.

Question you? Now why would anyone even think of that? We of course just blindly trust any numbers that you write without any citations.

Now back to the real world

[...]

With such news, Ukraine could use a lot of damage control right about now to keep morale from collapsing.

Collapsing? I though you said something about back reality? Well, I can see that anything that does not look "surrender" is not "reality". Ruzzia has lost a bit under 1470 soldiers in a day. Please, keep "winning" and keep pressing near Kharkiv, you are right, I am wrong, keep it up.

You mean that Ukrainians are blaming each others? Like if you would for example choose to demote Shoigu because everything is going perfect?

I have not pivoted and I have not said what chunk of land either if you read carefully ("meaningful" could cover up to 30 km of Moscow). I am just saying that I can conceive a plan that would work as fast as Trump plan. All you need to do is to fulfil you troll wet dream of a surrender. Would that be something that require ingenuity, statesman ship or even vision of the future? Nah. Even your little troll mind can think of it.

Quote from: be.open on May 13, 2024, 03:49:26 PM

Quote from: paxmao on May 13, 2024, 03:11:00 PM

There is a more interesting topic, but you may not like it or most likely you will say it is not true, but anyway: Today has marked the record of Ruzzian soldiers killed. Not only that, it seems that is NOT the record of vehicles destroyed. If you wish to give credit, 1700 Ruzzian soldiers died. They did not have adequate vehicle support.

I guess you'd like to question this?

The cause is the Kharkiv attack vector, which is an absolute crazy idea.

I have already expressed my opinion on this matter a little higher, I think this is a regular diversionary strike in order to force Syrsky to transfer reserves from other sectors of the front and accordingly weaken them (because he has no free combat-ready reserves). Syrsky now has a very difficult situation - he is forced to do what he does not want, because he cannot simply ignore the attack of the "North" group.

Regarding human losses and a small number of armored vehicle losses. The assault troops of the "North" group consist of "Storm Z" fighters - these are former prisoners who entered into a contract with the Ministry of Defense. In fact, these are suicide bombers; they are not entitled to armored vehicles. But the “North” group has powerful support of about a thousand artillery barrels (this is more than in the Avdeevsky direction), plus aviation support with guided bombs. Therefore, their raid will continue successfully with further losses of territory in Ukraine until Syrsky transfers at least a couple of brigades here to stop them. Then a strike will follow on the weakened section of the front. Wait, this will happen within a month, before the peace conference in Switzerland.

The thing about diversionary strikes that require troops to divert troop from the opponent is that... well, you have to divert your troops too.

If you are saying that all the killed were convicts, I will have to take your word for it, but you must reckon is difficult to believe. I can see that Ruzzia has been able to take a few kilometres which may or may not mean something. Time will tell.

You need to leave your echo chamber and random number generators to read the mass media coverage once in a while.

Quote from: paxmao on May 13, 2024, 03:23:52 AM

...
How would Trump gain at least to a point my respect? If Ruzzia were to give a meaningful chunk of he Ukrainian land they have taken. ...

'("meaningful" could cover up to 30 km of Moscow)' - you're just all kinds of confused now aren't you?

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dumBAss you are questioning Trump? He said Ukraine is important to the US. Why do you say that is not?

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Quote from: paxmao on May 15, 2024, 04:04:31 AM

~

Quote from: BADecker on May 14, 2024, 02:01:48 PM

~

I just wanted to thank you for your wishes of good health for me.
[...]

You physical health, I have given up on anything else.

Thank you again. "You physical health..." - 'you' should be 'your'. See? I haven't given up on your mental health... yet.

Quote from: MysteryMiner on May 15, 2024, 06:10:50 AM

Usual russian pig propoganda

Other readers please know - when russians capture ukrainians, they torture them till they cooperate with captors, say on camera every unimaginable bullshit they are given to tell. This already happened in 1960s with POWs in Korea and Vietnam.

Last two years I lived more in Ukraine than in my home country. I know the truth.

- When Ukrainians capture Russians, they torture them till they cooperate with captors, say on camera every unimaginable bullshit they are given to tell. -

They even get them to post on Bitcointalk.

Quote from: paxmao on May 15, 2024, 06:34:16 AM

~

By now anyone other than Ruzzia could have figured out that this war is not a good idea. I read today the economic cost of the war. It is more than 200 billions. It would have produced much better results if invested literally in anything else.

Just for comparison, you could buy the whole Pepsi Co. with the money wasted, or nearly 2/3 of Bank of America, nearly all Netflix, the whole of Mcdonalds, ... This is just for all to understand how stupid is to waste money for a landgrab that has nothing on in after you shell & destroy.

It would have served Ruzzia much better to build something useful and profitable, but I guess that is not the Ruzzian way.

Oh, add a few more tens... This night there has been an ATACAMS strike - the ones that "do not work" - on the airbase in Belbek, Sebastopol. The pictures of the day before show more than 10 Su jets parked in there. Anyone for a betting on how many are no longer in services?

I agree...I'm totally puzzled why USA continues to pour money there, they could for example collect all human feces off the streets of San Francisco.
Otherwise we could expect plague like in middle ages

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=b6fab720912642b6aedafdb02a76d2a4

Meanwhile, mobilisation in Ukraine continues

https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/12275

The reason why the West pours more money into Ukraine is this.

1. It isn't the West. It's the military industrial complex using greedy politicians in the governments.

2. Greedy politicians who have control of the money of the countries get payoffs (bribes) from the military industrial complex.

3. The military industrial complex gets paid for manufacturing more military stuff by the money authorized by the greedy politicians.

4. To justify manufacturing more, there must be a reason. The reason is made by the greedy politicians... "Help Ukraine"... even though they don't really give a s*** about Ukraine or Ukrainians.

5. The greedy politicians have their eye on the people of their nations to see how far the people will let them get away with it.

Russia Is About To Overrun Ukraine's Defenses – Why Are There No Peace Negotiations? - https://alt-market.us/russia-is-about-to-overrun-ukraines-defenses-why-are-there-no-peace-negotiations/

Ukraine struggles to find manpower as weary troops stuck on frontline face Russia forces | BBC News - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3inDJ1EvOFY

Cool

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Quote from: LTU_btc on May 15, 2024, 02:35:13 PM

And your point is?

Croatia, 4 million people, managed to mobilize 250 000 (without any foreign help, and actually embargo on weapon buying) for final liberation offensive.

If Ukraine, 40m people country, cant mobilize at least 2 million after receiving hundreds of billions help

then obviously Ukrainians don't feel its worth it, for whatever reason

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Quote from: MysteryMiner on May 15, 2024, 06:10:50 AM

I agree...I'm totally puzzled why USA continues to pour money there, they could for example collect all human feces off the streets of San Francisco.

Good old Soviet propaganda nugget "but there are homeless people in America!@!!!"

BTW US federal government (the entity that "pours money [into Ukraine]") typically doesn't clean city streets. That sort of shit (no pun intended) usually is the responsibility of the city government. And if the city of San Francisco (i.e. its residents by proxy of their elected officials) likes their shitty streets - that's their constitutional right.

But facts wouldn't make you feel good about your smart-ass putinism so please continue to disregard them.

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Other readers please know - when russians capture ukrainians, they torture them till they cooperate with captors, say on camera every unimaginable bullshit they are given to tell. This already happened in 1960s with POWs in Korea and Vietnam.

Last two years I lived more in Ukraine than in my home country. I know the truth.

Getting tortured isn't worst what could happen. There is plenty of videos on internet how Russians are killing Ukrainian POW's and troops who already surrender. And we can already guess how many cases there is which aren't uploaded to internet.
Though, on the other hand, sometimes it's fun to watch what Russian POW's are saying in front of camera. Now way that they would decide to tell it themselves. But war is war.

So this is Russian propaganda too? Sky news?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=KXhC8WREVKM

And your point is?

Quote

Meanwhile, mobilisation in Ukraine continues

https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/12275

Another cinema from Golden Mosfilm collection. But they're getting boring as we already saw same crap year or two ago.

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It is interesting Branko that you claim to have family who fought fascists and you do not seem to be able to tell one. Or maybe is a question of having the right type of fascism?

Quote from: MysteryMiner on May 15, 2024, 06:10:50 AM

Quote from: paxmao on May 15, 2024, 06:34:16 AM

Usual russian pig propoganda

Other readers please know - when russians capture ukrainians, they torture them till they cooperate with captors, say on camera every unimaginable bullshit they are given to tell. This already happened in 1960s with POWs in Korea and Vietnam.

Last two years I lived more in Ukraine than in my home country. I know the truth.

So this is Russian propaganda too? Sky news?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=KXhC8WREVKM

By now anyone other than Ruzzia could have figured out that this war is not a good idea. I read today the economic cost of the war. It is more than 200 billions. It would have produced much better results if invested literally in anything else.

Just for comparison, you could buy the whole Pepsi Co. with the money wasted, or nearly 2/3 of Bank of America, nearly all Netflix, the whole of Mcdonalds, ... This is just for all to understand how stupid is to waste money for a landgrab that has nothing on in after you shell & destroy.

It would have served Ruzzia much better to build something useful and profitable, but I guess that is not the Ruzzian way.

Oh, add a few more tens... This night there has been an ATACAMS strike - the ones that "do not work" - on the airbase in Belbek, Sebastopol. The pictures of the day before show more than 10 Su jets parked in there. Anyone for a betting on how many are no longer in services?

I agree...I'm totally puzzled why USA continues to pour money there, they could for example collect all human feces off the streets of San Francisco.
[...]

Quite simple, the more you demilitarise Ruzzia and the more the Ruzzian economy gets crippled the less money you have to spend in having troops and means. It is called the peace dividend.

do you think that US economy is suffering by selling more weapons? do you think that 200 billions mean anything for the US? 0.3% of their gdp? 0.4% if things are more interesting for them?

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/28/economy/russia-military-spending-economic-impact/index.html

Quote

He said that before the war Russia would typically splash around 3-4% of its annual gross domestic product on defense but now it could be anywhere between 8% and 10%.

Revenues from the oil and gas sector were 41% lower in the January-to-July period than in the same period in 2022.

That means the government is having to borrow more. Government debt, currently at 14.9% of GDP, is set to rise.

I hope you now understand better what is happening in Ukraine. If not read about the fall of communism in USSR, it is the same.

A quick update on the planes destroyed in Sebastopol, along with a few radars. Ruzzia intercepted the missiles with an air defend radar, in the sense that the missiles destroyed the radar on its location.

https://youtu.be/VbKeiQXVnAU

[moderator's note: multiple posts have been merged]

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Quote from: MysteryMiner on May 15, 2024, 06:10:50 AM

Quote from: paxmao on May 15, 2024, 06:34:16 AM

Usual russian pig propoganda

Other readers please know - when russians capture ukrainians, they torture them till they cooperate with captors, say on camera every unimaginable bullshit they are given to tell. This already happened in 1960s with POWs in Korea and Vietnam.

Last two years I lived more in Ukraine than in my home country. I know the truth.

So this is Russian propaganda too? Sky news?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=KXhC8WREVKM

By now anyone other than Ruzzia could have figured out that this war is not a good idea. I read today the economic cost of the war. It is more than 200 billions. It would have produced much better results if invested literally in anything else.

Just for comparison, you could buy the whole Pepsi Co. with the money wasted, or nearly 2/3 of Bank of America, nearly all Netflix, the whole of Mcdonalds, ... This is just for all to understand how stupid is to waste money for a landgrab that has nothing on in after you shell & destroy.

It would have served Ruzzia much better to build something useful and profitable, but I guess that is not the Ruzzian way.

Oh, add a few more tens... This night there has been an ATACAMS strike - the ones that "do not work" - on the airbase in Belbek, Sebastopol. The pictures of the day before show more than 10 Su jets parked in there. Anyone for a betting on how many are no longer in services?

I agree...I'm totally puzzled why USA continues to pour money there, they could for example collect all human feces off the streets of San Francisco.
Otherwise we could expect plague like in middle ages

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=b6fab720912642b6aedafdb02a76d2a4

Meanwhile, mobilisation in Ukraine continues

https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/12275

paxmao

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Quote from: MysteryMiner on May 15, 2024, 06:10:50 AM

Usual russian pig propoganda

Other readers please know - when russians capture ukrainians, they torture them till they cooperate with captors, say on camera every unimaginable bullshit they are given to tell. This already happened in 1960s with POWs in Korea and Vietnam.

Last two years I lived more in Ukraine than in my home country. I know the truth.

By now anyone other than Ruzzia could have figured out that this war is not a good idea. I read today the economic cost of the war. It is more than 200 billions. It would have produced much better results if invested literally in anything else.

Just for comparison, you could buy the whole Pepsi Co. with the money wasted, or nearly 2/3 of Bank of America, nearly all Netflix, the whole of Mcdonalds, ... This is just for all to understand how stupid is to waste money for a landgrab that has nothing on in after you shell & destroy.

It would have served Ruzzia much better to build something useful and profitable, but I guess that is not the Ruzzian way.

Oh, add a few more tens... This night there has been an ATACAMS strike - the ones that "do not work" - on the airbase in Belbek, Sebastopol. The pictures of the day before show more than 10 Su jets parked in there. Anyone for a betting on how many are no longer in services?

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