Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 69. (Read 73534 times)

"" The cost for Excalibur has been estimated at around $100,000 per round, compared to about $3,000 for an unguided 155-mm shell."

Source:

https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-key-us-weapons-artillery-shells-for-ukraine-is-soaring-2024-3


I guess rest of your comments are just as accurate...wrong tenfold 

You're just repeating the same thing, over and over ad nauseam, totally ignoring what's happening at the front and in the country.
Ukraine gaining ground=UA winning, soon UA will recover their 1991 borders and then go on Moscow. They should continue doing so
Ukraine loosing ground=UA winning, UA just trading 1cm of land for 1billion of dead Russians. What a smart move, they should continue doing so

It's like a broken record, you can't even define what a loss would look like for Ukraine. Or how bad situation must get on the front for you to start doubting the strategy. Spinning whatever happens, happens for the best because here are some pictures of some golfcarts

Let's concentrate on some UA UAVs hitting some "targets up to 1000 kilometres from the front" and totally ignore the fact that Russia has been hitting ANY target it wanted in ALL OF UA, going as far as Poland with Poland even complaining that few Russian missiles crossed into their airspace  

Everything is great now and will be even better soon, just keep hanging in there, and send your women and teenagers to the front lines, because you know that's what victory looks like!?!? Just because fighting to the last Ukrainian is a great strategy for US doesn't make it so great for UA

If you know "Ukrainian statistics on population perfectly well", then what's the point of no return? That is, how much population can afford to decline before it won't be able to recover in the same form we know Ukraine now?

Which exact time frame are you asking me to compare UA positions at? Keep in mind that US will approve aid soon, but hasn't yet!

do not worry, it is going to get pretty real.

Yep. Next time you use numbers just for comparison, try to make them at least a little realistic.

did you read the bit in which I said is just for comparison? The cost is higher now yes, but do not take for granted that is going to stay - higher prices call for higher production - you know... market economy? still, happy you are not bothered by the aid and do not see anything wrong with it. Ukraine needs supporters like you asking for more. Perhaps it will feel different if they hit UralVagonZavod? It seems it is in rage of some of the latest devices that Ukraine has used.

LOL. A small error has crept into your calculations: one 155-mm artillery shell cost $2,000 before the start of the conflict, but now costs $3,600. So the salmon will have to be cut not even in half, but at least 12 times - provided that all the allocated aid goes to artillery shells, which of course is not the case.

I can repeat it again if you want, but since you do not seem to understand, I will use now the 6 year old version:

- Make sure the bully does not get your lunch.
- Make sure the bully gets punched in the face until he decides you lunch is not worth that much.
- Keep hitting until the bully does not have any more resources to hit you.

And then, kick the bully out of the room.

Versus the wrong strategy of blind-charging a bigger guy like in summer.


No, those are your words not mine. A usual way of attacking an argument is taking it to the ridiculous. For example: "hey it seems that daRude is still reading that plan in which the parade in Kiev would be in day three, perhaps I should buy him a subscription for a newspaper" or "I guess you want to see 50% of the Ruzzian fleet in the bottom of the sea instead of the current 15% because you just love seafood".

What I have said is that 60 billion in military aid are the roughly equivalent to six year of Ruzzia's production of shells to their most optimistic stats and that Ukraine is able to hit and has hit high-value targets up to 1000 kilometres from the front. Hint: take a look at where most of Ruzzia's most valuable factories and sites are.



I know Ukrainian statistics on population perfectly well. That is why I think they need to get free from Ruzzia and find the same progress Poland had during many decades after they got rid of Ruzzia and joined the EU.


Back up your words or stop pretending this did not happen and that it is not going to affect Ruzzia.



Any credible source saying that Ukraine is worse-off after this? Because you are pretending to say it is.

I see, so still pushing the narrative that Ukraine is totally winning because its super-soldiers became uber-effective with some tech that will surely become a game changer. They just need to continue to give up land, and mobilize women   Should they continue doing it in stages, drop the conscription age first to 21 before dropping it to 18 (you know boiling the frog), or just start conscripting 18yr olds right away? You know, because they're winning so hard, and things are better than ever for Ukraine? Do you think loosing Kharkiv wouldn't be a bad for Ukraine too? Because everything can be spun as a positive, willing to accept any Ukrainian loss as long as Russia is demilitarized a bit more for the US?

Hint: Do not look up population stats for Ukraine, just keep looking for any negative stat you can find on Russia, just make sure to present it in a vacuum without providing objective content.  

---

Back up your words or stop attempting to fool people. Find any major news outlets that claim that Ukraine is doing good at the front (overall not some marginal local victory), then we'll see who's cherry picking.




Huh why does it sounds like they're not talking about Ukraine winning at all, but just hoping for chance to hold back Russia from completely breaking through Ukrainian lines

It is the houses special. I am not sure, but I think DaRude here is trying to make it look like getting 60 billion in aid is a bad thing and will not impact the rate of fatalities in the Ruzzian army? I mean... a 155MM shell is 300 US. 60B of shells would be like... 18 million shells? More than all that has been yet used in the war? A whole 6 year shell production of Ruzzia to their most optimistic stats? This is just to give an idea, not realistic, but... I would not want to be on the other side of this gun.


Both are correct, Ukraine needed ammo and systems in the date of those articles (roughly 10 days ago) AKA a shitmetricton of 155MM in the frontlines. Since then, an aid package nearly as big as what was given by US between early 2022 and late 2023 has been approved and it will not take long to get to where is needed.

Look, Ruzzia knows. Why do you think they are pressing regardless of losses?

Ukraine has the artillery and the trained manpower to stabilise the front if given ammo. Ukraine has developed a number of techniques that make good use of what they can get - e.g. able to impact refineries several hundred miles away from the front. US and Ukraine are now clear about what works and what does not work in Ukraine, so no more pressure to launch an offensive. Ruzzia has used up quite a few of their resources and Ukraine is achieving some tactical advantages in sea and air by attacking ships & airfields. The water is boiling for the frog.

On regards to recruiting, yes it is necessary, just like in Ruzzia, but no, not half a million. Many soldiers have been too long in the frontline and there needs to be rotation. But when choosing an option, you must look at the other option: if you do not recruit, Ukraine population will be equally diminished by Ruzzian action. Just look at the population of Ruzzia itself during the last decades and the Ukrainian population pyramid. Letting Moscow choose your fait is a slow suicide - or a fast one if another Stalin decides to mass-kill all the farmers.



@Branko, it is not a good idea to send zero armour vehicles full of people in frontal assaults and Ruzzia is doing it. What is the point of discussing it?

Hostile military alliance creeping toward their border is not enough reason to think about bad intentions?

LOL cherry season still in full swing apparently. Anything to avoid thinking as to why you need those cherries to begin with.

"Ukraine can keep fighting for years. ...Ukraine is in a better position than early in the war" that's a very...interesting statement, contrary to what everyone else have been reporting. When you say Ukraine can keep fighting for years, when do you think Ukraine would need to drop conscription age further to 21, and then mobilize women? Guessing you'd support such moves too right? Anything to demilitarize Russia just a tiny bit more?

I saw documentary about Americans moving in Afghanistan, they were moving about 20 meters per hour so they traveled 2 months between 2 villages because of
fear of IEDs and mines and civilians...obviously, Russians can't afford such approach and win a war like this

dumBAss, it is not possible to educate someone who cannot tell his imagination from what is actually happening. (yes, that is you). I simply pass, you are BAPR (beyond any possible repair). Your posts are already the joke of this forum, there is no need to answer to every stupid thing you say.

Going on-topic, the list of supplies to Ukraine include ATACAMS. These have proven perfectly capable of destroying the S-400s and S-300 which is strategically very important as it can leave nearly anything 200 km from the front exposed. No safe zone for Ruzzia.



Every army uses unarmoured vehicles, the difference is that Ruzzia is using them to send the infantry on assault in open terrain. Just look for the videos, it is just suicidal.

I do not recall asking the admin to remove your posts, none of them ever, they are mostly propaganda but short and ballpark on-topic. Your name calling needs to improve, I am used to being called criminal, nazi, ... "dumb" is like de-escalating.

Stoltenberg is a salesman. He sells NATO and nobody buys NATO if Ruzzia is weak.

You asked admin to remove my post previously explaining in detail why you're dumb calling those "golf carts" so I'll be short this time as you'll
probably ask him again, so I'll be short: "You're dumb. All armies in a world use "golf carts""


How come you had to leave Avdeevka then?


Stoltenberg disagrees with you, Russian army is stronger than before war:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfwgZcFR6KY

"aaw forget it..." Lol. What? did you finally look up the stockpiling of gold that the banks are doing... along with China and Russia? China is telling its people to hedge their 'money' and investments by getting into gold and silver. This means that the reports that you see about a floundering Chinese economy have to do their relation to the USD. The USD is dying, but China and Russia are backing out of it rather than dying along with it. The reports don't show this, because they are focused on the USD.

I hope that the US is sending military aid rather than $$$ in their latest, $60 billion for Ukraine package. At least that way some of the money will remain in the USA, even though it still devalues the USD. But Russia is already technologically ahead of anything that the US is going to send to Ukraine.

The USD is starting to go the way of the German Mark in WW2. Soon it will be less than worthless to Ukraine.

dumBAss, the US is sending mostly military aid, the coin stays at home and it is not being financed by printing money - among other things because the democrats are quite concerned with inflation. Also, this is a showroom that is encouraging many countries in the world to get better armed and do so buying US stuff - ethically questionable, but financially effective.

China is in the middle of a property crisis dumBAss, even the Chinese gov has said that growth is going to be much slower than in the past.

Please, provide any evidence of "banks stockpiling gold - ... aaw forget it, it is just another crap you heard in either in the bar or some Methodist Church in San Antonio. Sufficient to say that the wealth of nations is nowadays based on what they can produce and their influence, but you are a lost cause, is not worth discussing with someone that does not respect the basic facts and reason. Your head is so full of the wrong stuff that nothing else can get in.

"You are completely missing the point: The US is demilitarising Ruzzia and selling more weapons than ever to everyone." Somebody posts something that says Russia is being demilitarized by the US. But Russia is buying US military stuff from everybody else on the black market. This is part of the reason why Russia isn't worrying about Ukraine. They have reverse engineered all of the US stuff, and they are building better.

Russia's drones can go everywhere in Ukraine, anytime Russia decides to send them. Ukraine is dead.

The more money the US sends to Ukraine and elsewhere, the more devalued it becomes. The USD might be worth only half the value of what it was at the start of the war. Sending more money will only devalue it more, until people everywhere start serious trading with gold and silver... which China and Russia are stockpiling for BRICS.

How do we know this? US banks are stockpiling gold and silver, but are way behind China and Russia.

Ukraine? Simply a byword. They're gone. That's why Russia is moving into places like Niger, Africa, while the US is moving out. Soon Niger will be manufacturing Russian military arms, and making Big Bucks doing it. Then only the Russians living in Russian towns will care about Ukrainian droning. Make the Russian people mad enough, and they will simply overrun what's left of Ukraine without the help of or orders from the Russian government.

No you do not. You are completely missing the point: The US is demilitarising Ruzzia and selling more weapons than ever to everyone. Ukraine is ok with doing the job in exchange for keep being a free independent Ukraine. Ukraine can keep fighting for years. It will take you around couple of years to realize what is happening - like a slowly boiling frog - and even then you will not admit it. It does not matter, is equally real.

Ukraine is in a better position than early in the war: Ruzzia cannot replenish tanks, missiles or ship at the rate these are being lost or used. From having no air defence, Ukraine now has the platforms and the trained people while additional patriots & other are now approved - including a few from Europe. Ukrainian pilots are nearly completely trained in the F16 and several of these are arriving from Europe and possibly US.

Ukraine has developed long range drones that can hit even in Karelia. I do not think you are following the events, but Ruzzia has relocated the strategic bombers to a base in Karelia because they are no longer safe anywere else near Ukraine and they cannot build more.

BTW check you math, 60B is only from US and only for now. You are not counting on EU and others help. In two years 22 to 24,  US sent 70B only.

I am not ignoring China (now in a crisis) nor inflation by printing. There are many risks, as there are many potential opportunities, for now what matters is that 100 republicans voted yes to aid, which may give you a glimpse of what the future could look like.

^^^ In addition, benefactors are only benefactors when they can make a profit off their benefactoring. Who will the US make the profit off of? They won't conquer Russia this way. But Ukraine is already conquered, her children (troops) destroyed, and any Nato government that sees this isn't going to volunteer troops of their own... at least not in a big way.

Companies in America own or hold interest in most of the farmland in Ukraine - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=three+american+countries+own+60%25+of+ukrainian+farm+land&ia=web. Ukraine already belongs to the US. If they can't hold her, she will fall to Russia... as is gradually happening right now.