Pages:
Author

Topic: Science and Religion? - page 3. (Read 1935 times)

hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 26, 2019, 12:11:21 PM
Measurable facts are science dogma, even though they don't fit the dogma of formal religion. Why? Because they are things that can't be changed. Do a science experiment exactly the same way every time, and you get exactly the same results every time. Science dogma is even stronger than religious dogma.

There are many science theories that are popular, but haven't been proven one way or another, yet remain theories. So, it is the decision of scientists whether or not they will drop a theory from being such.

Cool

No you don't necessarily get the same result every time. Schrodinger's cat can testify to this. Also, it is true that many science theories haven't been proven one way or the other. Although most theories have substantial evidence to back them up. (For instance, the predictions given by the Theory of General Relativity keep testing out as true.)  That is why they are called "theories."

All scientific theories have susbtantial evidence behind them, thats why they are scientific theories. Badecker thinks that only "facts" matter but in science and in anything a 100% fact simply does not exist.

So you think that it's a 100% fact that 100% facts don't exist?

Regarding Schrodinger's cat, the whole idea is to look at things that might go beyond, even, relativity. It's an area of random in the sense of the unknown, not in the sense of spontaneity. So, it isn't being done the same every time. Rather it is being done differently every time. Consider that as the earth turns, and revolves around the sun, and the sun moves through space, that the location is different. So nothing is the same.

Even Einstein showed that Relativity only worked with things of Relativity. Many people think that he didn't accept the ether. But all that he did was to reject the ether as operating in the same sphere of universal influence as Relativity:
...

Recapitulating, we may say that according to the general theory of relativity space is endowed with physical qualities; in this sense, therefore, there exists an ether. According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable; for in such space there not only would be no propagation of light, but also no possibility of existence for standards of space and time (measuring-rods and clocks), nor therefore any space-time intervals in the physical sense. But this ether may not be thought of as endowed with the quality characteristic of ponderable media, as consisting of parts which may be tracked through time. The idea of motion may not be applied to it.

In other words, science theories exist in their sphere of existence. But the complexity of all nature keeps us from understanding many connections between many theories, which connections render the theories in ways that are not part of the theories.

Cool

As I explained several times, scientific theories are like crimes. How do you solve a crime? You can't go back in time and if it's not recorded, how can you make sure who did it? Well, you look at the evidence and when you find the DNA of the killer on the scene and the victim, the weapon in his house with his fingerprints, his motive, witnesses that saw him at the time of the crime around the area of the crime, etc, you can be pretty sure he did it but are you 100% totally sure? Never but it's more than enough to go to jail, same thing with scientific theories.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 26, 2019, 07:11:22 AM
Measurable facts are science dogma, even though they don't fit the dogma of formal religion. Why? Because they are things that can't be changed. Do a science experiment exactly the same way every time, and you get exactly the same results every time. Science dogma is even stronger than religious dogma.

There are many science theories that are popular, but haven't been proven one way or another, yet remain theories. So, it is the decision of scientists whether or not they will drop a theory from being such.

Cool

No you don't necessarily get the same result every time. Schrodinger's cat can testify to this. Also, it is true that many science theories haven't been proven one way or the other. Although most theories have substantial evidence to back them up. (For instance, the predictions given by the Theory of General Relativity keep testing out as true.)  That is why they are called "theories."

All scientific theories have susbtantial evidence behind them, thats why they are scientific theories. Badecker thinks that only "facts" matter but in science and in anything a 100% fact simply does not exist.

So you think that it's a 100% fact that 100% facts don't exist?

Regarding Schrodinger's cat, the whole idea is to look at things that might go beyond, even, relativity. It's an area of random in the sense of the unknown, not in the sense of spontaneity. So, it isn't being done the same every time. Rather it is being done differently every time. Consider that as the earth turns, and revolves around the sun, and the sun moves through space, that the location is different. So nothing is the same.

Even Einstein showed that Relativity only worked with things of Relativity. Many people think that he didn't accept the ether. But all that he did was to reject the ether as operating in the same sphere of universal influence as Relativity:
...

Recapitulating, we may say that according to the general theory of relativity space is endowed with physical qualities; in this sense, therefore, there exists an ether. According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable; for in such space there not only would be no propagation of light, but also no possibility of existence for standards of space and time (measuring-rods and clocks), nor therefore any space-time intervals in the physical sense. But this ether may not be thought of as endowed with the quality characteristic of ponderable media, as consisting of parts which may be tracked through time. The idea of motion may not be applied to it.

In other words, science theories exist in their sphere of existence. But the complexity of all nature keeps us from understanding many connections between many theories, which connections render the theories in ways that are not part of the theories.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 26, 2019, 12:49:59 AM
Measurable facts are science dogma, even though they don't fit the dogma of formal religion. Why? Because they are things that can't be changed. Do a science experiment exactly the same way every time, and you get exactly the same results every time. Science dogma is even stronger than religious dogma.

There are many science theories that are popular, but haven't been proven one way or another, yet remain theories. So, it is the decision of scientists whether or not they will drop a theory from being such.

Cool

No you don't necessarily get the same result every time. Schrodinger's cat can testify to this. Also, it is true that many science theories haven't been proven one way or the other. Although most theories have substantial evidence to back them up. (For instance, the predictions given by the Theory of General Relativity keep testing out as true.)  That is why they are called "theories."

All scientific theories have susbtantial evidence behind them, thats why they are scientific theories. Badecker thinks that only "facts" matter but in science and in anything a 100% fact simply does not exist.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828
June 25, 2019, 11:17:09 PM
Measurable facts are science dogma, even though they don't fit the dogma of formal religion. Why? Because they are things that can't be changed. Do a science experiment exactly the same way every time, and you get exactly the same results every time. Science dogma is even stronger than religious dogma.

There are many science theories that are popular, but haven't been proven one way or another, yet remain theories. So, it is the decision of scientists whether or not they will drop a theory from being such.

Cool

No you don't necessarily get the same result every time. Schrodinger's cat can testify to this. Also, it is true that many science theories haven't been proven one way or the other. Although most theories have substantial evidence to back them up. (For instance, the predictions given by the Theory of General Relativity keep testing out as true.)  That is why they are called "theories."
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
June 25, 2019, 11:01:52 PM
If science were about the simple things - like electrolysis of water, or making graphene - it would be okay for use in this life. But science is fill with all kinds of theories, some of which will never be able to be proven. What are the theories for? Two things:
1. To help build a product that they can sell and make money;
2. To find the answer to life, the universe, and everything = religious (42?).

In its simple ways, science is a tool. In its complex ways, science is a religion.


Science is not a religion. There is no dogma in science. If a theory doesn't fit the measurable facts, it is eventually discarded.


Measurable facts are science dogma, even though they don't fit the dogma of formal religion. Why? Because they are things that can't be changed. Do a science experiment exactly the same way every time, and you get exactly the same results every time. Science dogma is even stronger than religious dogma.

There are many science theories that are popular, but haven't been proven one way or another, yet remain theories. So, it is the decision of scientists whether or not they will drop a theory from being such.

Cool

So you don't like facts, what is new?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1gC8qWh2Hs
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 25, 2019, 10:22:59 PM
If science were about the simple things - like electrolysis of water, or making graphene - it would be okay for use in this life. But science is fill with all kinds of theories, some of which will never be able to be proven. What are the theories for? Two things:
1. To help build a product that they can sell and make money;
2. To find the answer to life, the universe, and everything = religious (42?).

In its simple ways, science is a tool. In its complex ways, science is a religion.


Science is not a religion. There is no dogma in science. If a theory doesn't fit the measurable facts, it is eventually discarded.


Measurable facts are science dogma, even though they don't fit the dogma of formal religion. Why? Because they are things that can't be changed. Do a science experiment exactly the same way every time, and you get exactly the same results every time. Science dogma is even stronger than religious dogma.

There are many science theories that are popular, but haven't been proven one way or another, yet remain theories. So, it is the decision of scientists whether or not they will drop a theory from being such.

Cool
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
June 25, 2019, 10:13:37 PM
If science were about the simple things - like electrolysis of water, or making graphene - it would be okay for use in this life. But science is fill with all kinds of theories, some of which will never be able to be proven. What are the theories for? Two things:
1. To help build a product that they can sell and make money;
2. To find the answer to life, the universe, and everything = religious (42?).

In its simple ways, science is a tool. In its complex ways, science is a religion.


Science is not a religion. There is no dogma in science. If a theory doesn't fit the measurable facts, it is eventually discarded.


Right, pure science isn't but I think he's referring to personal bias that can bleed into research or people being influenced to do certain studies (and maybe change results here and there)... those kinds of things, tampering with the actual practice of science
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828
June 25, 2019, 10:00:22 PM
If science were about the simple things - like electrolysis of water, or making graphene - it would be okay for use in this life. But science is fill with all kinds of theories, some of which will never be able to be proven. What are the theories for? Two things:
1. To help build a product that they can sell and make money;
2. To find the answer to life, the universe, and everything = religious (42?).

In its simple ways, science is a tool. In its complex ways, science is a religion.


Science is not a religion. There is no dogma in science. If a theory doesn't fit the measurable facts, it is eventually discarded.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 25, 2019, 09:43:19 PM
But religion might solve all your problems at the end of your life... if you have the right religion. Scientists aren't near capable enough to make science succeed for you.


That is the crux of the problem though. As you just acknowledged, it might solve your problems and it might not solve your problems at the end of your life. There is no way to confirm that your faith path is indeed the correct one, until it's too late. Even if supernatural being visits you personally, it could be a malevolent spirit leading down the wrong path...At least with science, we can always test and retests any ideas, and if we find some discrepancies, modify the ideas to conform to the measurements.


If science were about the simple things - like electrolysis of water, or making graphene - it would be okay for use in this life. But science is fill with all kinds of theories, some of which will never be able to be proven. What are the theories for? Two things:
1. To help build a product that they can sell and make money;
2. To find the answer to life, the universe, and everything = religious (42?).

In its simple ways, science is a tool. In its complex ways, science is a religion.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828
June 25, 2019, 08:59:43 PM
But religion might solve all your problems at the end of your life... if you have the right religion. Scientists aren't near capable enough to make science succeed for you.


That is the crux of the problem though. As you just acknowledged, it might solve your problems and it might not solve your problems at the end of your life. There is no way to confirm that your faith path is indeed the correct one, until it's too late. Even if supernatural being visits you personally, it could be a malevolent spirit leading down the wrong path...At least with science, we can always test and retests any ideas, and if we find some discrepancies, modify the ideas to conform to the measurements.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 25, 2019, 07:30:39 PM
Regardless of whether you are into Science or Religion, neither of them will solve all your problems at the end of the day.

But religion might solve all your problems at the end of your life... if you have the right religion. Scientists aren't near capable enough to make science succeed for you.

Cool
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
June 25, 2019, 07:25:59 PM
Regardless of whether you are into Science or Religion, neither of them will solve all your problems at the end of the day.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 24, 2019, 03:35:50 PM
Science is very limited. It is divided into two basic parts:
1. The parts that are factual, like electrolysis of H2O;
2. The parts that are unknown (science theory), like Big Bang or evolution.

Religion covers the parts that science hasn't gotten to, yet.

If science fact didn't work, it would have been gone long ago.

If religion didn't work, it would have been gone long ago.

Believing in science that isn't known to be fact is like making it into a religion. After all, people feel that religion is true, but they can't easily put their fingers on the facts that might make it true. Same with science theory. No facts that make science theory true, or it would be science fact. So, belief in science theory is religion or like religion.

The reason science theory works is that it is a religion to its believers.

Cool

ROFL, here is the problem badecker, science is very limited, religion (which is nothing, just a book) is far more limited. Does religion have any other method that it's better than the scientific method to find out when something is true or not?

It's kinda surprising that someone who believes in science with all its limitations, would consider religion to be nothing. After all, limited science IS religion when believed in. So the believer in science is believing in nothing.

What's interesting is that the traditional religions all have psychology and understanding in them that works better than most of the science religion. In fact that's why more than half of the world's population believes in religion (the other half believing in nothing). Religion works. Even the science religion nothing... sometimes.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 24, 2019, 12:54:19 PM
Science is very limited. It is divided into two basic parts:
1. The parts that are factual, like electrolysis of H2O;
2. The parts that are unknown (science theory), like Big Bang or evolution.

Religion covers the parts that science hasn't gotten to, yet.

If science fact didn't work, it would have been gone long ago.

If religion didn't work, it would have been gone long ago.

Believing in science that isn't known to be fact is like making it into a religion. After all, people feel that religion is true, but they can't easily put their fingers on the facts that might make it true. Same with science theory. No facts that make science theory true, or it would be science fact. So, belief in science theory is religion or like religion.

The reason science theory works is that it is a religion to its believers.

Cool

ROFL, here is the problem badecker, science is very limited, religion (which is nothing, just a book) is far more limited. Does religion have any other method that it's better than the scientific method to find out when something is true or not?
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 24, 2019, 10:58:38 AM
Science is very limited. It is divided into two basic parts:
1. The parts that are factual, like electrolysis of H2O;
2. The parts that are unknown (science theory), like Big Bang or evolution.

Religion covers the parts that science hasn't gotten to, yet.

If science fact didn't work, it would have been gone long ago.

If religion didn't work, it would have been gone long ago.

Believing in science that isn't known to be fact is like making it into a religion. After all, people feel that religion is true, but they can't easily put their fingers on the facts that might make it true. Same with science theory. No facts that make science theory true, or it would be science fact. So, belief in science theory is religion or like religion.

The reason science theory works is that it is a religion to its believers.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 1572
Merit: 267
June 24, 2019, 10:35:21 AM
You will have to take spacetime and belief in to consideration to make the math work.


That way you have room for both Moses, Jesus, God and yourself.
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
June 24, 2019, 10:35:10 AM

You are obviously trolling because you know there is 0 evidence for anything in the bible outside the bible. Science theory is the closest to facts, a book it's not. How do you know for sure the bible wasn't written by someone else?

There are about 1.5 billion Christians in the world. The rest would be Christians if they saw the strength in Christianity. Most of the rest are simply ignorant of the Bible.

You are missing a great big chunk of evidence if you say there is zero evidence.

Cool

Two thousand years ago, all people on Earth believed that Earth was flat.  Being wrong is not evidence you are right.  It is evidence of your ignorance of science.
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
June 24, 2019, 10:31:22 AM

Show me one historical evidence (outside of religious texts) that Moses or Jesus existed.


Show me one place in the Bible that says that they didn't exist.     Cool

Show me where it says in The Lord of the Rings that Frodo Baggins does not exist.

You should read other books, other than the Bible if you want to distinguish what is fiction and what is not.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
June 24, 2019, 10:23:23 AM

You are obviously trolling because you know there is 0 evidence for anything in the bible outside the bible. Science theory is the closest to facts, a book it's not. How do you know for sure the bible wasn't written by someone else?

There are about 1.5 billion Christians in the world. The rest would be Christians if they saw the strength in Christianity. Most of the rest are simply ignorant of the Bible.

You are missing a great big chunk of evidence if you say there is zero evidence.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 645
June 24, 2019, 10:18:26 AM

Show me one historical evidence (outside of religious texts) that Moses or Jesus existed.


Show me one place in the Bible that says that they didn't exist.     Cool

You are obviously trolling because you know there is 0 evidence for anything in the bible outside the bible. Science theory is the closest to facts, a book it's not. How do you know for sure the bible wasn't written by someone else?
Pages:
Jump to: