Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 141. (Read 845650 times)

1. Stop lifting your puny reason above God's reasoning.

2. Did I miss your reply to my https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.20478006 post?

3. Anybody who understands Jesus salvation and believes it, can't help but to love God. Did you miss my #1, above?

You replace Jesus by humanism and expect salvation?

You can rebuke catholics and false prophets by the words of the father. Where are those? You replace the 1 commandment with the second in order that Jesus had put?

You first need to know the God that Jesus is talking about. Its the God of the Bible that its interpreatations are thru the Jesus words. To know God, and to talk to him is salvation per se. You know him, you walk with him and you will be with him.

There are tons and tons and tons of false ministries in christianity. But the Christ being a messiah is not false doctrine. Its a saviour hence he saves.

He clearly saves from the errors and makes confused people not confused. Any mistical explanations I totally throw away. Bible is antimistical.


Do you know any person that think he does bad and that he is bad? Everybody think they are good. Yet there is evil in the world. Hows that happened?

You make wrong (in my opinion satanic) claim (Platon and neoplatonic claim) that the evil is so common because of what we had been taught. If we would not be taught anything we would be virtues. Well..... thats obviously wrong, but the most modern thought of this kind was coming from humanist Roussou. Antropological evidences are not showing that primitive society are "good" by any modern standards.

So. In other words if I think differently than God, God should fit to my line of thinking? That would be a completly evil God. He would have to be the most hipocritical, chaotic and manipulating just like Satan is.

God might tolerate evil as a pedagogical tool. Like a father allows a son to make errors. Such an error was when God was trying to fit his laws to human - to please him. In my opinion that was a pedagogical tool. He wanted to say - if you want to do what you want I will allow this, but I will mention it again and again and again you can do otherwise. We are a really naughty and unrully child.

God has chosen the Abraham to be the father of nations. That what he have done, every other human on earth should do. TO CEASE THEIR VIOLENCE ON CHILDREN BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT WANT THAT(even if they are confused otherwise). He was not a normal human therefor he was not treated by God like normal guy. He was like a role model.

Apollo, Satan, Lucifer or however he is called is a destroyer of nations. Its like the opposite to a patriarch. And no I do not mean matriarch lol. Just a destroyer of family of man.

Jesus is like a Patriarch. If you want to save your life - you will lose it, if you lose it in the sake of the father you will gain life. People are cowardice to do good. Jesus had not been cowardice and has the eternal life with God.

Just because you think God contradicts himself, only shows you contradict yourself. I do not see a single iota where God word contradict itself. Its just wrong human interpretation, thats why we have Jesus to save us from confusion to not be a liar like Satan is.

Its the Satan that is the humanist. He lies that everything human desires, even if its contradictory to the laws of logic is good. Thats a lie. Like lying doctrine of humanism, that says everybody should be rich while riches are made by abusing the fact that someone is poor. Thats ungodly yet you would think as flawed and fallable human being, that there is nothing wrong in capitalism for example. God had said in his law that debts should be abolished every 7 years. Later on you say - how God could make so unjust world... well....... You have not listen to him in the first place?

1. GOD gave man a mind so that man could do his own thinking, this includes moral judgments in line with the law which GOD wrote on the human heart. I think that there is no way that GOD would behave that way and the context of the child abuse is not relevant to the question of whether the child abuse is justified. Do not throw away reason along with GOD's law of nonviolence: a child learns from the actions of the parent, we are the children of GOD because of our moral compass which comes from GOD and is "written upon the heart", GOD would not act in a way that would nullify his own law.

2. Jesus never actually taught Jesus salvation, he told his closest followers "I am not our master". Whenever I point this out to you, you think that your interpretation of the Bible in other places can overcome the contradictory information. Did you ever address the facts and research directly and adequately? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.20474735
You should not ignore the information on the evilbible site that calls out the evil in the OT, this book is so messed up but it takes an open mind to realize what has happened.
http://www.evilbible.com/do-not-ignore-the-old-testament/

3. Jesus factually taught that you need to love GOD and love thy neighbor as thyself. You replace the love for thy neighbor with the so-called Doctrine of Jesus Salvation? And how are YOU expecting to get to Heaven? I recommend that you immediately conduct a thorough read of all sites that I mentioned, I just showed that you are deliberately adulterating the factual teaching of Jesus bout loving GOD and neighbor as self.

But you see? When Abraham thought he might have to choose between his son and God, he might have had turmoil. But when God showed Abraham that he didn't have to make such a difficult choice, Abraham loved God all the more.

The question is. Do you love God enough to question Him only with academic questioning? Or are you questioning Him with judgment in mind? If you judge Him, you do not love Him.

The two things you need for your salvation are:
1. To be on God's side. The way you do this is to love Him above everything else;
2. Faith in Jesus salvation.

Will you ever get to Heaven to ask Abraham how he feels about it?

For all the doubts that you have seeing a crooked path ask Jesus, by reading him how can you make them straight.

Jesus had said that there were a human tradition and God tradition. Human tradition were rebelious.

Isaiah that profesised the coming of the Lamb of God:

1"What are your multiplied sacrifices to Me?" Says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle; And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs or goats.

That is not a God made tradition, but a man made tradition.

Samuel that made a king someone similiar to Jesus - Dawid, had said:

22Samuel said, "Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams.

The Dawid himself:

16For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it; You are not pleased with burnt offering.

And finally Jesus had rebuke the Jews that they follow the man made traditions and God does not have delight in them. They made Moses obey them, because they were in constant rebelion towards God. God had a compromise.

Finally Jesus had said they are not the sons of Moses. If they would be the sons of Moses they would listen and obey him. They would not want sacrifices if they would obey him. They would not want stoning if they would be the God of Abraham and Jacob and Dawid and Jesus.

Do not forget a Moses was a murderer. Thats not a coincidence that he took lightly a murder. God want to show us that sin breeds sin. We need to break the vicious cycle by repenting.

They would not have divorce as Jesus have said that they made Moses to agree to make their wicked law. THATS ALL A MAN THAT IS EVIL! Jesus have said that they had a wicked hard hearth if they do not see the evils of divorce.

Jesus have come to show the God is not evil. Its the man that desires it.

All God want you to sacrifice is your idols, your wickedness and obey him.  

*science alert* Psychology shows how human like to project unto others what they want. Its like if I like something that must be the God that is pleased. Or if I am a sinner I would pretend that goat is a sinner and by sacrificing it I will sacrifice my wickedness. Stupid? Yes. But human are often stupid lying creatures.

Jesus was send for the Biblical people to show how their paths are not 100% of God. They mix the good with the evil. He came to the lost people that could not say what is good and what is bad, because of their rebelious nature and their rebelious leaders - Pharisee.


Discovered morality? My ass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43jgckjVubo It seems to be that this discovery is very hard to discover for a whole lot of people around the world.


I could say its cross-culturaly ignored. Unchanging - yeah I agree.

Im not sure if shaming practices in Japan you would not consider a torture. Or a taoist China killing children that are females, or breaking female baby legs to put them together again. Spartans, Mongols, Indians... were they all moral by our standards? Give me a break.... realy.... Ignorance is not a virtue. Just because you are not aware of the abuse of children by all the cultures around the world does not mean its not there. Just because you close your eyes does not mean the evil is not there.

But yes, moral values are universal - they are a God law. They were not made by religion. We could agree on that. But saying atheists are better than of christians because they are pure, is a nonfactual nonsense.

Children are the most abused group of people around the world. Ask catholic priests - they know best about it.

In the John revelation it is written:

"6But you have this to your credit: You hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. "

Nicoloitans - Saint Nicolas, Claus at short ( a bishop of Antiochia) followers (does it ring something? Jingle Bells?). An origins of Catholic church. One of the practice of Nicolaitans was fucking little orphans. That was not considered sin.

People have evil in their hearth. Deal with it. And yes we have a lot of good in us. Its the purified God dna as to speak.

So how is it that the atheist can recognize evil in the Bible but the fundamentalist Christian cannot?

It is Only because the fundamentalist chooses obedience to a Bible story over their own moral conscience.

"Do not torture" is a moral obligation which is absolute, that means that GOD does not torture. The Biblical story about GOD torturing an innocent child cannot be taken seriously.

Seth is not relevant to the discussion, the question you have to ask yourself is "why is GOD demanding that Abraham commit evil? Is it justified for GOD to act this way?"

Seth is said to be Melchizedek. And Melchizedek is said to be like the Son of God in Hebrews. This means that the words about Seth are not and cannot be clear in the understanding of mankind. We only understand in an outer, unclear way.

Hi Przemax, you want me to consider the context of the story about god terrorizing a child, but I can see that the content of the story has the child suffering and threatened like ab animal, this is not a story about GOD because the content refutes the source, there is simply no way that Father would bring about the torture of a child, and this idea about ethical imperative follows easily from the Christian writings and intuitions about moral law. This chat would be much facilitated if you were to read the papers from Cunningham called "The Content Source Problem" and "The Problem of Seth's Origin ", then consider whether this story [and others mentioned on the evilbible site] really is one of the all-good-and-powerful doing what is right and teaching humans justice by such story.

Complexity proves God. The stuff of the universe all around us, especially life and intelligence, is so extremely great, that nobody can make it. The only place it could have come from is God.

Your problem revolves around your definition of God. If you realized that whatever caused this whole thing to come into being as it is, matched what others called "God," you would realize that we are talking different languages, so to speak. But we mean the same thing.

The Bible is not contradictory to science. And its the science role to prove if something is disproven as it is contradictory to the statements made to be true. So you clearly can not say that the Bible is not true. How do you define what is true? That what is factual right? And a fact in logic is what was not disproven with logic, using a counter argument.

Just because there are many religions, does not mean, that there is not a one God. God has not made any religion. The Bible is just a story. It helps you to get the general image what God is. Its just an image. If that image does not convince you thats all I can say here. In the Bible there is an answer that human heart can be wicked and self centered, that makes a human to make graven images and to believe things he want to believe rather than one God. Thats the mistery solved by the bible of why there are many religions. Its a conflict between the God law and ficticious law made by man for man. In my opinion all religions have some mix of human traditions with the inspiration of God in them. Thats why the worst thing to do is to mix them - usualy the end goal is that none of God remains in such a religion in the end.

All I can say is that the message and the image of God convince me its true. May I ask how old are you? Maybe you have not gained enough wisdom to discern the message that is in the Bible?

I don't understand many things how world was made, and such. I hope I will further my knowledge in the future.

Even if thats all not true in the Bible, the wisdom in this book is so supreme if you look at it with open heart that you imidiatly love it. So actualy I do not care if its true, or I want it to be true. As long as its not a stupid faith that someone can prove wrong I have no reason not to believe it.

I just love the Bible. For me its the most amazing, the most insightful and the most inspiring book that I had ever read. And I read a lot of other books. But as well its the hardest, most dificult book that I had ever read as well.

You are very persistent with evolution. As I said even if evolution theory is completely wrong it doesn't prove god in any way. I was a christian myself and I didn't stop believing in god because of evolution. I just realized that I just believed it because my parents told me. I read the bible and I saw it was just pure nonsense and stupidity and that there were hundreds of other religions. I understood religions were made by people to try to explain things but none of them are true, they are made up. All of what you said was not proven right either, I don't know what you mean it was not proven wrong. It's like saying pigs are animals therefore god doesn't exist and if you can't prove that pigs are not animals then god doesn't exist. The problem there is not pigs being animals, the problem is why pigs being animals would prove god non existence. That happens to your arguments. ''Psychological. Carnal needs does not grants satisfaction. Guess what a rich person wants? More money? What strong person wants - more strenght. etc etc. Only the love of God brings you satisfaction.''
So what if believing in god gives you satisfaction, that doesn't point in any way to the existence of god.

Tacitus was the Ancient Roman history writer and senator. In his "Annals" from Tacitus we learn that Jesus was executed while Pontius Pilate was the Roman prefect in charge of Judaea and Tiberius was emperor  - could be one of the scientific proofs.

With the existence of the universe is a scientific proof of the existence of god and also the existence of religion...

Why is reincarnation (survival) a stupid belief when it is backed by proofs converging from many and varying classes of phenomena? There is no evidence linking the Eisenbeiss case to fraud or trickery, same with the video of telekinesis which was confirmed on the EEG. How is it acceptable to reject evidence for no other reason than your disliking the conclusion? You are turning science on its head by expecting one outcome and rejecting all others.

More details: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

Your link is outdated, the RNA World hypothesis is not favored by researchers.

The latest research does not substantiate the abiogenesis theory, researchers were not able to produce an RNA polymer of even 5 base pairs under room temperature conditions, under real conditions cytosine begins to degrade almost immediately.

RNA polymers at deep-sea vents:
http://www.astrobio.net/origin-and-evolution-of-life/lifes-building-blocks-form-in-replicated-deep-sea-vents/
Life emerged from hot deep-sea vents:
https://m.phys.org/news/2012-12-life-emerged-cell-membrane-bioenergetics.html
Testing the FeS World hypothesis:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2014-04-theory-life-deep-sea-vents.amp
RNA World is a biochemist's dream.
http://www.mdpi.com/2075-1729/6/4/40/htm
RNA was not the first replicator.
http://m.pnas.org/content/96/8/4396.full#ref-77

I would need to prove. Ok. You were proven wrong with your silly ass evolution nonesense. That seems fair.

You say I don't have proofs... Yeah... I did not know it was trial and I am judged by you. You said reasons and evidences. And you like a donkey are stuck with word proof that you do not even understand. You are a funny little atheist.

You don't get the point with all that. ALL OF THAT WAS NOT PROVEN WRONG. Even if all of that was 50/50 none of that is wrong. While ALL of your evolution school book claims are 100% fraud. Bible is miracly not contradictory with science even on iota. Does that not amaze you? If God would said - and I had cut their head with my magic sword - that would be a science illiterate blubbering idiot speaking. That would be impossible, but a ghost that is a electromagnetic energy itself, he could do the things he said he done in the Bible with 100% scientific accuracy it could be done.


For sure that was a merge of stars. Thats the first time I heard of such a thing.

I had found such an answer:


One million years old star as new? Wow... Thats something I need to get used to talking with atheists. Full of deceit.

And I have made an error - I ment designer ofcourse. Common designer.

1. Psychological. Carnal needs does not grants satisfaction. Guess what a rich person wants? More money? What strong person wants - more strenght. etc etc. Only the love of God brings you satisfaction. (Which God? There are other stupid beliefs that could give you satisfaction, like reincarnation)
2. Another psychological reason. People need to know from where everything starts. Scientist are made fools of themselves so the only game in town is God. (God, which God, also super smart aliens that created everything or we live in a simulated reality or who knows)
3. Genetical. Men have XY chromosomes. So a man could not came from woman (XX chromosomes) but the other way around its possible. Tell me - How the fuck could Moses know genetics back then? Thats awesome guess by him if it was just pure luck. (Awesome guess? It seems to me like 50/50 LOL, it's either man first, woman second, or woman first man second and people in that time always thought men are more important than women so nice argument here)
4. Etological Love is the general principle of life. We like giving, sharing and such. Proves that Christ word is true. (That ''proves'' that christ word is true? ROFL I could say that survivability is the general principle of life as well, who says what the general principle of life is anyways)
5. Geographical Mount Ararat that claimed to be where the paradise of eden was looks like it had a connection with all the waters of the earth. In the bible the 4 great rivers have the begining there. Those could be connected into 2 main rivers later on that divides into the atlantic ocean that goes north and south, and the later is Indian Ocean to the south and the Pacific goes towards the north. You might laugh from that, but that seems logical. It was claimed that 4 rivers of the world contains almost all of the waters of the earth. (I did laugh)
6. The argument that Baddeker makes in this thread. (Which I debunked several times)
7. The God being a space - electric world principles, and defining what is a space by magnetism. (I don't know what the fuck that means)
8. The similiarities between the dna proves the common ancestor. (So?)
9. We have no idea how clouds are made. A hint - its not only a vapour, there proven to be something called a dry clouds. (Having no idea how clouds or anything is made does not prove god)
10. How God makes the enemy of Israel to be defeated proves that he uses magentism (blinding people and horses, the eye retina can be damaged by high dose of magnetism) micro waves ( making the fearfull by cooking their brains) uses lighting ( fire from the sky). That implies that God is some electromagnetic principle. (You would have to prove that he did any of that in the first place)
11. God said he makes people tremble - electromagnetic radiation or some other radiation, and as we know everything vibrates, thats a fact. (Again you would need to prove that)
12. There have to be a creator or some kind of creation because we do not observe for example the birth of new stars, new kinds of animals and such. (https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2013/aug/21/birth-new-star-observatory-video)
13. Being sinful is actualy bad for your health. All of the 7 cardinal sins are bad for you overall health. (So?)
14. Bible seems to be the only book at that times teaches why to use quarantine. So its a book that teaches about the hygiene, and epidemics. How could they know about the germs back then? They could not. (I'm pretty sure the quarantines were for leoprsy lol)

1. Psychological. Carnal needs does not grants satisfaction. Guess what a rich person wants? More money? What strong person wants - more strenght. etc etc. Only the love of God brings you satisfaction.
2. Another psychological reason. People need to know from where everything starts. Scientist are made fools of themselves so the only game in town is God.
3. Genetical. Men have XY chromosomes. So a man could not came from woman (XX chromosomes) but the other way around its possible. Tell me - How the fuck could Moses know genetics back then? Thats awesome guess by him if it was just pure luck.
4. Etological. Love is the general principle of life. We like giving, sharing and such. Proves that Christ word is true.
5. Geographical. Mount Ararat that claimed to be where the paradise of eden was looks like it had a connection with all the waters of the earth. In the bible the 4 great rivers have the begining there. Those could be connected into 2 main rivers later on that divides into the atlantic ocean that goes north and south, and the later is Indian Ocean to the south and the Pacific goes towards the north. You might laugh from that, but that seems logical. It was claimed that 4 rivers of the world contains almost all of the waters of the earth.
6. The argument that Baddeker makes in this thread.
7. The God being a space - electric world principles, and defining what is a space by magnetism.
8. The similiarities between the dna proves the common ancestor.
9. We have no idea how clouds are made. A hint - its not only a vapour, there proven to be something called a dry clouds. In the Bible its often said that its the God that forms the clouds and makes them rain. Seems legit as we do not have any idea how they are formed, even when we are so "advanced".
10. How God makes the enemy of Israel to be defeated proves that he uses magentism (blinding people and horses, the eye retina can be damaged by high dose of magnetism) micro waves ( making the fearfull by cooking their brains) uses lighting ( fire from the sky). That implies that God is some electromagnetic principle.
11. God said he makes people tremble - electromagnetic radiation or some other radiation, and as we know everything vibrates, thats a fact.
12. There have to be a creator or some kind of creation because we do not observe for example the birth of new stars, new kinds of animals and such.
13. Being sinful is actualy bad for your health. All of the 7 cardinal sins are bad for you overall health.
14. Bible seems to be the only book at that times teaches why to use quarantine. So its a book that teaches about the hygiene, and epidemics. How could they know about the germs back then? They could not.

Makes you wonder - how could they knew all that is possible if some of them would not seen of this stuff. Either they were smart and advanced, or God is.

Many many many other scientific reasoning and evidence that the science only lately discovered may put a new light on the Bible that its not a lie. Those people could not know this stuff so long ago.

Still waiting for any proof, evidence or reasoning on why people should believe in god.