Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 449. (Read 845654 times)
Wow, you guys are still talking about this. I think it's clear that if you build your world and philosophy around the idea of a god, you CAN'T accept science or anything else that would destroy your ego. Us non-believers need to understand that while it's easy to see that there is no god, it is asking a lot of believers to recognize the obvious. Its not just this one fact they have to accept. They must throw out all their notions about reality. Not everyone can do that.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I am not disagreeing. Yet, how can we use logic on something that is "un-logic," but uses logic at the same time?
By inference, one may arrive upon a measure of that without rational intelligibility.
We are within what we are within. Since we are what we are, and since we don't know much about what we really are, let's start making all kinds of guesses about what is without, right?
"All cretins are liars. I am a cretin."
May you not conceive of this fellow, or does inference fail you yet once more?
You trying to tell me that I am God?
Quote from: Letters to Atticus, Marcus Tullius Cicero link=http://1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/foundation.htm
Wise men are instructed by reason;
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
Quote
The fear of the Lord—that is wisdom, and to shun evil is understanding.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Quote
The fear of the LORD adds length to life, but the years of the wicked are cut short.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death
Quote
The fear of the LORD teaches a man wisdom, and humility comes before honor.
Quote
The fear of the LORD leads to life: Then one rests content, untouched by trouble.
Quote
Humility and the fear of the LORD bring wealth and honor and life.
Quote
He (God) will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; the fear of the LORD is the key to this treasure.
It is the immense space between the subatomic particles of the atoms that shows that we are dust (at least physically), or even less than dust.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I am not disagreeing. Yet, how can we use logic on something that is "un-logic," but uses logic at the same time?
By inference, one may arrive upon a measure of that without rational intelligibility.
We are within what we are within. Since we are what we are, and since we don't know much about what we really are, let's start making all kinds of guesses about what is without, right?
"All cretins are liars. I am a cretin."
May you not conceive of this fellow, or does inference fail you yet once more?
You trying to tell me that I am God?
Quote from: Letters to Atticus, Marcus Tullius Cicero link=http://1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/foundation.htm
Wise men are instructed by reason;
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
Quote
The fear of the Lord—that is wisdom, and to shun evil is understanding.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Quote
The fear of the LORD adds length to life, but the years of the wicked are cut short.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death
Quote
The fear of the LORD teaches a man wisdom, and humility comes before honor.
Quote
The fear of the LORD leads to life: Then one rests content, untouched by trouble.
Quote
Humility and the fear of the LORD bring wealth and honor and life.
Quote
He (God) will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; the fear of the LORD is the key to this treasure.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I am not disagreeing. Yet, how can we use logic on something that is "un-logic," but uses logic at the same time?
By inference, one may arrive upon a measure of that without rational intelligibility.
We are within what we are within. Since we are what we are, and since we don't know much about what we really are, let's start making all kinds of guesses about what is without, right?
"All cretins are liars. I am a cretin."
May you not conceive of this fellow, or does inference fail you yet once more?
You trying to tell me that I am God?
Quote from: Letters to Atticus, Marcus Tullius Cicero link=http://1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/foundation.htm
Wise men are instructed by reason;
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
Quote
The fear of the Lord—that is wisdom, and to shun evil is understanding.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Quote
The fear of the LORD adds length to life, but the years of the wicked are cut short.
Quote
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death
Quote
The fear of the LORD teaches a man wisdom, and humility comes before honor.
Quote
The fear of the LORD leads to life: Then one rests content, untouched by trouble.
Quote
Humility and the fear of the LORD bring wealth and honor and life.
Quote
He (God) will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; the fear of the LORD is the key to this treasure.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I am not disagreeing. Yet, how can we use logic on something that is "un-logic," but uses logic at the same time?
By inference, one may arrive upon a measure of that without rational intelligibility.
We are within what we are within. Since we are what we are, and since we don't know much about what we really are, let's start making all kinds of guesses about what is without, right?
"All cretins are liars. I am a cretin."
May you not conceive of this fellow, or does inference fail you yet once more?
You trying to tell me that I am God?
Quote from: Letters to Atticus, Marcus Tullius Cicero link=http://1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/foundation.htm
Wise men are instructed by reason;
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
Men of less understanding, by experience;
The most ignorant, by necessity;
The beasts by nature.
yeah right...
True statement: "we don't know"
Delusional statement: "it was God"
Curiously enough, God has no idea about the Universe, 99% of scientific assertions from religion are way wrong and attached to its time's belief. A more than sufficient evidence that "we" created God, not the other way around.
Very nicely said. Well there is a term for such people in philosophy but I can't seem to recall its name in English right now. I do believe however that this involves most people. They blindly accept the "truth" without even trying to find out if it is correct. True statement: "we don't know"
Delusional statement: "it was God"
Curiously enough, God has no idea about the Universe, 99% of scientific assertions from religion are way wrong and attached to its time's belief. A more than sufficient evidence that "we" created God, not the other way around.
However it's quite interesting to see that the majority of the most intelligent people are either agnostics or atheists.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I am not disagreeing. Yet, how can we use logic on something that is "un-logic," but uses logic at the same time?
By inference, one may (to degree) arrive upon that without the rationally ineligible from it.
We are within what we are within. Since we are what we are, and since we don't know much about what we really are, let's start making all kinds of guesses about what is without, right?
"All cretins are liars. I am a cretin."
You trying to tell me that I am God?
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I am not disagreeing. Yet, how can we use logic on something that is "un-logic," but uses logic at the same time?
By inference, one may (to degree) arrive upon that without the rationally ineligible from it.
We are within what we are within. Since we are what we are, and since we don't know much about what we really are, let's start making all kinds of guesses about what is without, right?
"All cretins are liars. I am a cretin."
May you not conceive of this fellow, or does inference fail you yet once more?
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I am not disagreeing. Yet, how can we use logic on something that is "un-logic," but uses logic at the same time?
By inference, one may (to degree) arrive upon that without the rationally ineligible from it.
We are within what we are within. Since we are what we are, and since we don't know much about what we really are, let's start making all kinds of guesses about what is without, right?
god exists. just tell a white man to grow a long ass hair and wear a white gown.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I am not disagreeing. Yet, how can we use logic on something that is "un-logic," but uses logic at the same time?
By inference, one may arrive upon a measure of that without rational intelligibility.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I am not disagreeing. Yet, how can we use logic on something that is "un-logic," but uses logic at the same time?
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
How do we know? Maybe entropy or non-entropy doesn't apply to God. Maybe He just uses it. We hardly know what this universe is all about. How can we tell much of anything about God? Of course, I don't know that God isn't a minimum entropy state.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
I asserted God to be the acme of "minimum entropy state."
We don't know that this is God. We don't even know that this is the crux of God. We have never seen something like minimum entropy in this universe. In fact, there may be no minimum entropy. That is, there might be such a thing as NO entropy.
God totally might be from elsewhere and else-when. He might be totally from somewhere that has nothing to do with entropy or lack of it, or any of the laws of this universe, whatsoever. In fact, if the universe is about 6,000 years old like the Bible says, God must have kick-started a whole lot of it into action after He set it in place. Being part of anything we know about this universe would make such a thing impossible.
The point? "... acme of 'minimum entropy state,'" is a good guess... another idea to consider. But probably there are aspects of God that are so extremely different than ANYTHING in this universe, that the word "different" is completely inapplicable.
You are still debating a mythological figure whose only proof of existence is a book that must be considered true because that book itself says so?! 
How about we start to discuss unicorns and minotaurs now?
How about we start to discuss unicorns and minotaurs now?
See that following:
(The second segment of emboldened text was highlighted by "cooldgamer.")
Yeah, Decky. Take Vod on his honor, and send him the bitcoins. He'll send 'em back if he loses.
He asked him to sign the address, not send him the coins
On topic: no matter how much you guys debate how entropy works, it still doesn't prove there is a god. Seems to be the latest buzzword for trying to disprove evolution, even though scientists have already debunked that idea.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo.html
You missed a detail of our conversation. (See the emboldened portion.)
Ok, I'll sit it out knowing the water will evaporate, and leave the colouring behind. I promise not to touch it
That introduces new disorder into the environment, the diffusion of the water molecules through the atmosphere.
You introduced this disorder, not I, I just sat and fell asleep watching it.. remember your up against someone who will get to the truth of the matter, in that you chose water, knowing it would evaporate of it's own accord, I had no say in this scientific fact, I merely debunked the question, using nothing.
Edit: twas a good question, you had me thinking, but it is also an invalid question with regards to your point, due to the fact you forgot water is constantly changing.
That "constant change" illustrates (part of) my point: entropy does, indeed, proceed towards a maximum.
What was then to be argued is that existence is an isolated system and, therefore, subject to the maximization of entropy, and that this "maximization" begets the manifestation of everything (not read: "everything that exists" [though, that's technically accurate]).
It is to be inferred from there that God necessarily exists.
In a closed system entropy does increase, buuut...
That demonstrates my final assertion above: God would be the ultimate manifestation of that order within existence.
I misunderstood your argument, my bad. You are simply using the god of the gaps. There are many ways that the minimum entropy state could have come about, and since we don't know you're throwing god in there.So Dicksperiment, any proof of those 50btc you own?
Yeah, Decky. Take Vod on his honor, and send him the bitcoins. He'll send 'em back if he loses.
On topic: no matter how much you guys debate how entropy works, it still doesn't prove there is a god. Seems to be the latest buzzword for trying to disprove evolution, even though scientists have already debunked that idea.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo.html
You missed a detail of our conversation. (See the emboldened portion.)
Boil glass of water, colouring will stick to sides.
By what means shall you boil such that you do not introduce "new disorder" into yourself (as per the requirements)?Ok, I'll sit it out knowing the water will evaporate, and leave the colouring behind. I promise not to touch it
You introduced this disorder, not I, I just sat and fell asleep watching it.. remember your up against someone who will get to the truth of the matter, in that you chose water, knowing it would evaporate of it's own accord, I had no say in this scientific fact, I merely debunked the question, using nothing.
Edit: twas a good question, you had me thinking, but it is also an invalid question with regards to your point, due to the fact you forgot water is constantly changing.
What was then to be argued is that existence is an isolated system and, therefore, subject to the maximization of entropy, and that this "maximization" begets the manifestation of everything (not read: "everything that exists" [though, that's technically accurate]).
By thermodynamics, existence, which is an isolated system, would "spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium, the configuration with maximum entropy" (Wikipedia).
Nothing, then, is lost to everything.
Nothing, then, is lost to everything.
It is to be inferred from there that God necessarily exists.
In a closed system entropy does increase, buuut...
Quote from: Talk Origins
However, they neglect the fact that life is not a closed system. The sun provides more than enough energy to drive things. If a mature tomato plant can have more usable energy than the seed it grew from, why should anyone expect that the next generation of tomatoes can't have more usable energy still? Creationists sometimes try to get around this by claiming that the information carried by living things lets them create order. However, not only is life irrelevant to the 2nd law, but order from disorder is common in nonliving systems, too. Snowflakes, sand dunes, tornadoes, stalactites, graded river beds, and lightning are just a few examples of order coming from disorder in nature; none require an intelligent program to achieve that order. In any nontrivial system with lots of energy flowing through it, you are almost certain to find order arising somewhere in the system. If order from disorder is supposed to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, why is it ubiquitous in nature?
For example, the big crunch theory:
Quote from: Wikipedia
In physical cosmology, the Big Crunch is one possible scenario for the ultimate fate of the universe, in which the metric expansion of space eventually reverses and the universe recollapses, ultimately ending as a black hole singularity or causing a reformation of the universe starting with another big bang.
You are still debating a mythological figure whose only proof of existence is a book that must be considered true because that book itself says so?!
How about we start to discuss unicorns and minotaurs now?
How about we start to discuss unicorns and minotaurs now?
You are still debating from a "me want" position, rather than a position displayed by the universe?
You are still debating a mythological figure whose only proof of existence is a book that must be considered true because that book itself says so?!
How about we start to discuss unicorns and minotaurs now?
How about we start to discuss unicorns and minotaurs now?
not just a few books that say so, but the Universe all around
God says,
"Read it all so that you can judge in wisdom"!
yeah right...
True statement: "we don't know"
Delusional statement: "it was God"
Curiously enough, God has no idea about the Universe, 99% of scientific assertions from religion are way wrong and attached to its time's belief. A more than sufficient evidence that "we" created God, not the other way around.
True statement: "we don't know"
Delusional statement: "it was God"
Curiously enough, God has no idea about the Universe, 99% of scientific assertions from religion are way wrong and attached to its time's belief. A more than sufficient evidence that "we" created God, not the other way around.
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