Topic: Self-moderated topics - nice feature or should it get banned? (Read 982 times)

I have nothing against self-moderated topics on the forum, as long as the topic is clearly marked as such, and the rules of conduct are clearly stated. Self-moderated topics can significantly improve forum moderation and the fight against spammers. For example, when we report a post as off-topic spam, I imagine that the moderators have to spend a good amount of time deciding whether the report is justified and whether they should delete such a post. Self-moderated topics solve this problem, because in this case the decision rests with the creator of the topic.

Yes indeed, its a common thing like in basic law, its called the right to defense. Imagine only to not have the chance to count your part or we having to read and follow two threads for the same thing  .

About the other part, yes i think more users need to get involved about self moderate topics so we can see less spam and mega threads where they always said the same and are in a loop of the same response and nobody reads anything.

Probably @babo, @yahoo62278, @actmyname, @JollyGood, @DireWolfM14 and @FatFork also did not anticipate that their private communication will be exposed to public. This only shows, once more, what a scumbag TimeLord is. Only someone with very low morals would do something like that! Such gestures should only encourage more and more people to distrust this troll, with his both accounts.

I am all for self-moderated threads. In fact, I would go as far as to suggest forum users to self-moderate more of their threads if they don't mind the extra work (if it even comes to that).

It's an instant turn-off for spammers who will stay away if they know what self-moderated means. My guess is that most of them know. They tend to learn these things quickly but somehow can't learn how to become normal and valuable members of the forum. It's a great way to quickly delete off-topic replies or silent those that use your threads only to advertise their services or some website.

Certain boards and situations are big no-go. The reputation and scam accusation boards, for example. But even if self-moderated, our beloved scrappers will pick up the changes. I don't like seeing someone open a discussion about another person and self-moderating such a thread, or worse, preventing the accused person from replying.

Wow, just wow! You are the one lying here, pitiful troll.  
Instead of admitting your mistakes, you are doubling down and you keep spreading your lies against me.
Really looks like hope for betterment is wasted, for your case.
You will continue to be a liar, deranged troll and abusive imbecile.

---

Your projections into my replies about a thing, which was never written there, are exclusively yours.  
Nothing contradicts my description of events.
When you've PMed me, I've always tried to stay as polite as possible but you can expect that when you are constantly asking nonsense questions, at some point, my reply will be similar to the quality of the questions you are asking me.
And when you are asking me that I should review and give my personal opinion on the following trusts, you've left:


Timelord2067's left feedback on GazetaBitcoin account (untrusted because to Timelord2067 got removed from DT).

Of course I'll point out that your judgement is completely flawed and that you are a disgusting perv. What do you expect, when you submit a feedback, where you call GazetaBitcoin a "RACIST" on it's account for no reason???
Honestly, how braindead are you?
You are sending me repeatedly bullshit PM's and then are you complaining, when the 4th or 5th reply back from me due to your repeated PM's hurts your feelings?
Maybe you should stop sending unsolicited PM's to me??
But no, you are even accusing me of sending you "paranoid PM's", while you are completely making up the story because we all can see the true version: you sent me several unsolicited PM's, I've been very friendly but at some point you are getting butthurt because I disagree on your deranged viewpoints?
You are truly a deranged clown.

And you should re-read and understand my past posts here properly before making up your own, wrong version.  

---

LMAO, a PM is still unsolicited even if you are sending it to more people.
You reasoning makes no sense at all - include more people and a PM is automatically solicited - seriously?
A PM stays unsolicited, no matter how many people it is sent to. In addition I can add: mass unsolicited PM's are even more unsolicited.

---

LOL, how detached from reality are you? Or are you lying so confidently that you really expect you are getting away with it?
You should have realized that basically the whole Reputation regulars disagreed on your deranged trust ratings, where you called GazetaBitcoin a RACIST for example:


Timelord2067's left feedback on GazetaBitcoin account (untrusted because to Timelord2067 got removed from DT).

Even LoyceV disagreed with how you are acting.
How obvious do you want it, that you realize how wrong you are?  


What do you expect when you ask me if your "racist" feedback on GazetaBitcoin's account is accurate?
Of course I will call you out for that sort of abuse.
My reply was very polite by just calling it "inappropriate, wrong and / or completely misleading". A perv like you should act a bit more discreetly. [LOL, insiders know where this reference comes from  ]
But when we are at it, let me express it once more, a bit less polite but more based on facts:
Your feedback is completely baseless, it's a braindead defamation, it's disgusting and needlessly offensive for no reason but I'm not even surprised because you are a deranged and pitiful troll who's incapable of admitting he's wrong.

---

---

I don't need to apologize for anything because your accusations against me are straight out lies. You are the one who's at fault for sending me your unsolicited PMs, for you repeated lies, unjustified feedbacks on various accounts due to your recent trust abuse and now you are even doubling down on your misbehaviour.
Everyone can see that now, due to you publishing private information, one-sidedly and that's an anti-privacy offense as well. I might leave you another feedback for this abuse because doubling down on your lies shows, you have not learnt anything, neither you are willing to improve and now, you are even one-sidedly publishing PM's, which is a serious offense because people answering your PM's are of risk to get their privacy seriously violated.  
That's a really big abuse.

---

LOL, you just admitted that you've sent mass unsolicited PM's to all of the above members?
Thanks for exposing yourself that you are the one here, who's guilty of what you've accused me of:


You are the one, who's sending mass unsolicited PM's to forum members.  
Hopefully you'll get reported for this because you truly deserve to get banned.  


In addition, you should stop littering my topic with off-topic lies!
And learn to quote properly!
You are througout disrespectful by typing such illiterate off-topic spam in my topic, in addition to your repeated lies against me + publishing private messages.
Shame, shame!


tl;dr
Adding


to our trust lists is a good idea.  

Is it because 10 hours offset?

Where can I change the timezone?


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18322816

What 1miau hasn't anticipated is that I sent the *exact* same PM simultaneously to @babo, @yahoo62278, @actmyname, @JollyGood, @DireWolfM14 and @1miau - I surprised no one picked up on the *exact* time of their PM from me corresponded to the one 1miau now dramatizes.



I had inadvertently left off @FatFork and sent them the identical message a little while later:



This is true - your two smiley faces indicate you appreciated being asked and gave responses in an open manor which contradicts your version of events:

---

---

Let's just hit the pause button on the "discussion was settled" for a moment.

Yes, I replied to your first reply:



As we can see in this screen shot, each person I PM'ed received an identical or near identical reply - 1miau included.  Two respectful PM from me, the first a question, the second to thank them and one PM from them.  My second "unsolicited PM" was to thank you for responding to my first PM.

---

---

True, here it is:



As you can see I sent the same word-for-word message to the others users mentioned.  While I haven't read line-for-line every thread in meta or reputation over the last couple of days, I don't recall anyone else who received these messages claiming them to be anything even remotely what you now claim them to be.

Further more, I had taken on board the observations others had made concerning the evidence I had relied upon.  I posted the additional information, changed from negative to neutral their trust feedbacks and removed my support of the two flags and have deleted 90% of my trust feedback and simply asked others (yourself included) to review the changes that I had made.

How deranged is that?  I did what you told me to do.

---

---

This was your reply:



Gone was the respectful response and instead the accusations against me started.  (Paradoxically you merited the initial investigation which is what prompted me to ask for your opinion in the first place))

---

---

1miau: Please apologize for having misled everyone who is reading this and admit you are misleading in what you are saying about me.  

I haven't posted all of our exchange - but for anyone who is still reading know this:  I responded respectfully to each confrontational message from 1miau and my last PM to 1miau was a polite request that they stop Trolling me.


If you will, but not on the basis of the lies being told by 1miau.

Thanks for reading.

We know it already, troll is a big issue. Troll and spam.
It is not always quick to report it to a moderator because sometimes moderator seems to be busy. Self moderation can fight troll or spam quick.

Self moderation is very good and efficient against troll and spam.

It's a nice features and it shouldn't be removed. Most of the arguments about self moderated topic being a bad thing is that the feature is abused by scammer, but the forum already have solution for that, the trust system and the scam accusation section. Checking sellers trust record is more efficient than thoroughly checking the replies on their service thread.

The only valid argument would be that it prevent freedom of speech, but really, if your post get deleted in someone else thread, just create your own topic and post your opinion there.

Again, you are openly lying.
I've explained in detail, that you've sent me unsolicited PM's in two acts, where you spammed my inbox and asked about your petty trust issues. Next time, I won't bother to reply to your unsolicited PM's as it's a waste of time anyways and now, you are also ungrateful for it, that I took some time to reply to your bullshit PM. 

At least everyone can see now that my feedback is true and you are indeed a malicious liar.


Yes, really sad that I've given you the benefit of doubt far too long. At least it's now clear to me that your judgement is totally flawed, that you are a disgusting liar and a stupid clown.
That's what people are getting from you if someone tries to be nice and helpful...

Nice from you, to show that for everyone what an ungrateful, trolling clown you are. 

~Timelord2067
and
~Timelord2o67

You have to laugh at 1miau - for all their hyperventilating over the last week trying to get others to DT distrust me with factually incorrect allegations concerning our PM exchange, 1miau themselves forgot to DT distrust me until only a couple of hours ago.

https://bpip.org/TrustLog?&trusting=1miau&trusted=timelord2067&chtype=All

Sad really.

I will not say that everyone that voted against self-moderation has negative intentions. They are just exercising their right to suggestions.
Adding to the existing discussion, before you post in any self-moderated thread, the forum has a way to notify you that such a thread is self-moderated. That if you do not wish to be moderated, consider not posting in the thread. I believe this settles the whole debate or argument. This is a free froum, if you want to moderate people, created a self-moderated thread. If you don't want to be moderated by anyone apart from moderators, avoid self moderated threads.

It is very true, his tactics are well known and easy to expose.
But I'm always surprised that he doesn't notice how his repeated trollings are achieving exactly the opposite of what he's trying to achieve:
Everytime he continues his ramblings, everytime he's spamming some more nonsense, he's digging his own hole deeper himself.
He doesn't notice how his repeated trolling and even doubling down on clear mistakes is making it obvious for everyone, how flawed his "arguments" really are. 
He has demonstrated to have lost touch with reality and abandoned any reasonable discussion again and again...

But after all the poll in our topic is pretty clear because I've expected no different result. 

1miau, it is useless to try to use a rational manner of speaking with the baboon. As you know well, the old perv is always bringing up some ridiculous ideas, taken out of context, but he assembles them in such a manner that if someone not knowing him is reading his imbecilities may be tempted, at first sight, to believe him.

However, the approach of the troll is very well known by most of forum users, thus his attempts are futile. If you want, in a way, he is just like c******unter. c******unter used, in his glorious days, to write all sort of idiocies, but he paid enough attention to touch OP's subject as well, thus his posts could not be (always) reported for being off-topic (and, therefore deleted). Apparently, c******unter was a sort of mentor for our village idiot named Timelord and now he applies what he learned from forum's (probably) greatest troll. However, sadly for him, he is years behind the skills of his mentor and all he does is to ridicule himself up to the point of being excluded from DT1.

Now, of course, his Neanderthal mind needs to fight back somehow. So, in-between some baseless accusations of racism, he hijacks various threads, trying to derail them. But no worry, the baboon is excluded by 15 DT1 users or so, thus his glory days here are over. Just ignore him.

Dude, your claim is wrong, again.
The comment you are referring to is where I’ve exposed a scammer, yokxashor and his scamsite "Bitconnext" ("next Bitconect").

In my topic, I've suggested to disable self-moderation for negatively trusted accounts having accumulated multiple negative trusts (clearly proven scammers):


My suggestion isn’t that different from what we’ve read in the replies here now, where some people already suggested to disable self-moderation for Newbie accounts. Disabling it for negatively trusted accounts would be a good idea as well (and that’s what I’ve suggested back then…).
I've said nowhere that self-moderation is overally a negative feature, my suggestion was about disabling it for proven scammers.
But you are trying to spread wrong claims again.

You should read my entire post before leaving an uneducated comment…

It's funny, just five years ago your thirteenth post (that survives) was identical to this thread where you had two of your posts deleted in a self moderated thread so you started that other thread to exact your revenge for two of your posts being deleted.

Abuse of self-moderation by scammers


Poor you.

Wow, so all what's left for you are lies against me?
Your accusations against me are not true at all.  
I've never sent you paranoid and / or unsolicited PM's!

But that's exactly what you've done, so let's shed some light on your unsolicited PM's, you've sent me recently:

First act:

June 06, 2023, 06:10:35 AM was when you (Timelord2067) started to write me an unsolicited PM, where you asked me a question about a DT flag. YOU started to spam me with unsolicited PM's!

Because I'm a honest person, I've answered your reply 3 hours later: June 06, 2023, 09:10:12 PM

But you've sent me a PM back, again an unsolicited PM on June 06, 2023, 10:00:09 PM
Discussion was settled, so no reply needed.

---

Second act:

You've sent me again an unsolicited PM on June 09, 2023, 02:40:11 AM, where you asked me another question of your deranged trust issues.  
Because I'm a honest person, I've replied to you on June 09, 2023, 09:00:31 PM answering your question. Because your left trust on the established accounts in question (you wanted to shit on these accounts) I've been pretty clear, when I've expressed my opposition to your fraudulent left trust telling you that your left trust on these accounts is "inappropriate, wrong and / or completely misleading". After your massive misbehaviour I included a sentence, where I've condemned your perv activities.
Obviously, you felt offended as you've spammed me with another 4-5 PM's after that.
That included even more unsolicited PM spam, where you asked me to review your 3100+ left trust feedbacks, in a PM from June 09, 2023, 10:21:28 PM, where you asked me about it.
I've told you in my reply from June 09, 2023, 10:27:42 PM to open a topic in Reputation if you care about other people's opinions regarding your left feedbacks.  

But you've continued to spam me with unsolicited PM's:



Maybe I should have reported these right away as you are a disgusting troll and a waste of time.

While I've always tried to stay friendly, you've bombarded me back with unsolicited PM spam, asking even more questions (First act and second act).
My PM's always have been only a reaction to your unsolicited PM spam.

---

tl;dr 1
You are the one sending me unsolicited PM's twice (First act and second act), you disgusting troll!
Maybe stop lying and stop trying to accuse me about things, you have been doing.  

You are untrustworthy and a disgusting scumbag.

tl;dr 2
Timelord2067 is a malicious liar, deliberately spreading wrong accusations.

Conclusion:
⁓Timelord2067

So you admit your PM to me was just a Troll post?

Your responses so far are proof positive why we need moderated threads to prevent trolls like you from detailing threads.

I'll place you on ignore so you don't send me more of your paranoid PM's

No, I don't sent any spam PM's on a "daily basis to LoyceV and others"
I'm not even sending spam PM's to LoyceV and others on a weekly basis.  
I'm not sending spam PM's to anyone.

We already know that you are a disgusting perv but now we know as well that you are a disgusting liar.  

---

Twitter is a shit platform but that doesn't matter for your statement because it's now known, that you are a perv.  

---

*big doubt*
Not sure at all if theymos really approves such fraudulent and scammy shitcoins.
Because let's be honest: this shitcoin serves no purpose other than being used (or not being used because it's really somehow useless) for shady perv activity. Like there are coins for travelling, the music industry, the farming industry, the car industry, the lifestyle industry and other "special purpose" coins (which is just a stupid excuse to launch an own coin, where devs are in control of the coin.  ).
These are useless shit coins, it's not even listed on Coinmarketcap...  
It's so ridiculous.

In the end, the only ones making money from such shady shitcoins are the devs and everyone will be left with worthless bags of shit coins.
So, very bold statement, perv.  

There's nothing weak in exposing your abuses: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62352496
It's public for everyone, remember that.  
You are the one looking weak here, when you are advertising for shit coins, spreading unproven rumours about theymos, spreading lies and spamming my topic with deranged off-topic.

So, no need to spam my topic with deranged off-topic.

That's very true, the shit-posters just want to post in any topic without any prior knowledge about the real thing, and if they get such treatment regularly then they will miss the signature campaign rewards at least from those posts. They mostly post to complete their weekly quota to gain signature rewards and that's the main reason for their posting, otherwise those people aren't here to help others. Someone who is truly devoted to the forum only posts to help others and share his/her honest opinion, and I believe that such members could provide valuable advice to the users who need the help most. While on the other hand the users who basically have no interest in a topic and post just for the purpose of the rewards won't be able to provide valuable advice to the users.

I'm quite sure that those users who are doing such thing would definitely want the function of self-moderation to be removed from the forum because such feature could cause many hurdles in their way. However, they don't really know that such feature is helpful to make the posts useful for the other users of the forum who basically want to learn about a topic in detail, and at the same time want to read the opinions of other members of the forum. I really don't care about those people who misuse this feature because such people will always find a way to do their negative activity, and removing a feature wont stop them from their habits. However, its removal could cause trouble for the members who don't allow spam or trolling activity on their posts.

I hope everyone who cares about the forum and is truly devoted to it, would love  the feature to remain on the forum, but those who want it to be removed will not be successful for sure. This forum has been helpful to everyone who used it with pure intentions, but the ones who tried to do any wrong activity has got the treatment they deserved. Those who help others with pure intentions will always get good responses and love in return because the forum is like a second family for us, and if we help our family then we will get the respect and good will in return.

1, You are talking about the service section right but removing self-moderation feature from the service board is like double-edged sword. Imagine a service thread is actively undergo spam attack and the creator of the thread wants to keep the thread clean from spam which can reduces a lot of reporting work, moderation work. But I strongly suggest to remove the self moderation from Marketplace where the option is only used to delete the actual words from victims.

2, Yeah but that is the point of self moderation and if everyone is against the content and OP keep deleting the words opposes it will no longer make replies so it will be buried into the pages. If I am not wrong in self moderated thread the creator can include his own rule too so if we don't agree with the content then simply choose to ignore it from engaging.

You must be spamming people such as @LoyceV and others on a daily basis then with your prude police PM's?


Your "proof" is a link to a twitter post (twitter is not the forum)


The sexcoin thread is not a hidden thread and complies with the Forum's policy of being clearly labelled NSFW as set out by @theymos therefore theymos approves

Your arguments are weak and make you look like you are trying to impress others.

We don't start any "prude police", we just point out that spamming disgusting stuff in other people's topic is not appreciated at all and that's pretty common sense to criticize such perv misbehaviour.
So, no surprise to see you acting like it's a problem for you when your perv activities are getting exposed.  

Avoiding to spam perv stuff in the forum should be a no-brainer anyways...  

---

That's a good point as well.  

---

Yes and shitposters might miss some signature campaign rewards du to deleted posts.  

I have casted my vote in favor of self-moderation because I think it's a very useful feature that can be helpful for the original poster to delete spam from his/her post without even involving a moderator. The moderators are already busy in doing their duties, and it would be an extra burden for them if we report each spam posts in a thread. The only solution to stop such spamming massages from one's post is to self-moderate the post. I know that the feature can be misused by some negative users, but in this life there is always good use and bad use of things. Even money can be used for good things as well for bad things, however, we can't end money based trades because of those people who use it for wrong things.

In my opinion self-moderation should never be banned, and those people who want it to be banned should understand that they wont get any success in their negative intentions. The feature is unique and can be put into use in a very well manner by good posters, thread creators, and even managers of the forum. Any post that has self-moderation can make negative posters to run away from that post because they know very well that if they reply with useless responses on that post then they will be ignored by the OP, and their replies will be deleted without any question.

I have one more point and that's also a valid one. A self-moderated post gives the whole power of decision in the hands of the original poster, and he/she wont allow trolls, useless spam, abusive replies, or fight between two users in his/her thread. Due to this feature the original posters gets the privileges to stop non-sense replies in his posts. I as a member of the forum will always support this feature, and I even recommend others to support this amazing feature. I don't really know a lot about Unknown01, however, I have read some posts of 1miau, and I can surely say that he is among the good posters of the forum.

I only support banning self-moderation on global or local boards dedicated to business dealings, bans will work for low rated users (at least member-rank). The obvious reason is that this feature benefits scammers, there is no need to remove low quality posts due to the fact that spammers are not really interested in that area.
I know that scams are not moderated, at least it helps us to keep our warnings visible (can't be deleted by OP).

You have already highlighted the benefits of the self-moderated thread in a good precise way however every good thing can be misused and some scammers and spammers use self-moderated threads for this purpose.

1- A Scammer can open up a self mod thread about his service and would be able to delete all the negative feedbacks which people may wrote about his service.

2- A person may be willing to enforce his own point of view in one of his self moderated threads and delete the replies which differ from his opinion and thoughts. This may lead to the one-sided view on any particular instance/topic.

Besides that i don't think there are any more disadvantages to Self Moderation threads.

When you start your "prude police" thread it will be self moderated so you can lecture from on high so your question is kind of redundant.

Maybe he's talking to himself.
New strategy of sigspamming? 

Yes, at least he got rewarded handsomely for not reading my OP properly twice. 
As a service I would be pretty worried to spend valuable BTC for such crap posts.
But probably any sort of attention is considered a win for the service...
It's like when someone trashes our mail account with spam constantly.
We don't know. 

---

Probably, their expectation is hoping for other people to do the hard work (creating new interesting topics, tutorials quality posts etc. to keep the forum relevant in regards of clicks) similar to a school or university group project of maybe 4 people. You'll always have 1 or 2 people in your group expecting that the other 1 or 2 will do the most work. 
Maybe it's similar for our shitposters here. 

Definitely a way to go.
The downsides for managers trying to research good quality posters and reject bad ones is one thing: it's taking much more time than just enrolling a bunch applicants from the topic. For example, some managers have started to remove participants when they haven't received much Merit after a long time in their current campaign. That's a very good thing but reserching this and removing them, accepting new participants etc. takes time for a campaign manager. It's easier to continue without doing any changes.
Unfortunately, the trend is currently looking more like that there are too many open spots and many shitposters are getting in.

Recently, icopress has started to apply a new strategy, where he gives out more rewards for members with high earned Merit scores:

It's a good idea in my opinion and not much work to apply.

Finally, I believe it's a mixture of the following things to improve posting quality:

- dedicated campaign managers to kick out spammers
- campaigns to create awareness about posting quality, example: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/campaign-to-improve-posting-quality-for-local-boards-5409763
- Merit sources only rewarding quality posts
- spammer blacklists and campaign managers considering them, example: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/listgambling-board-spammers-concerns-solutions-suggestions-5403475
- self-moderated topics in spam boards
...

Probably there's even more but it's a good start already. 

I don't know exact reasons behind conflict between you and Unknown01 and why he is so angry at you, but any way, I don't see that he mentioned any valid reasons why self moderated topics should be banned. While you already mentioned all main reasons why it's must have thing. So, this question can't be even considered seriously now. It would be interesting if he would come here with his arguments.
I only can see one disadvantage of such topics - censorship when people can delete posts not because it's bad but simply because they don't like it or author who made it. Also, it allows to delete negative comments about service. But when you add all benefits and few little disadvantages, this question can't be even considered seriously.

Exactly! The point you make here is a very good one, and extremely important.

I find it mind-boggling to see how much signature spammers / shitposters don't understand how, in the long term, they're destroying their own business, and in the same time they don't understand that by taking the time to just read the answers and the full OP their lives would be much simpler ; because they wouldn't have to turn themselves into a cheap version of GPT to earn their BTC.

At the same time, I don't know how hard it is to recruit good posters from a campaign management point of view, but I sometimes feel a bit desperate to see that some are hired, and paid, to write crap on the forum (even after being reported to their manager by influential users).
In my opinion, it would be in everyone's interest to pay the real, effective posters more, and not take on the less good ones in the campaigns. Admittedly, there would be a little less volume of messages for the campaigns, but the remaining messages would be less drowned in a mass of absurd messages because the shitposters wouldn't come any more.
I imagine I'm neither the first nor the last to ask myself this question, but if everyone applied "Quality over quantity" for real (talking about campaign recruitment), the forum might be rid of the worst of them.

Reading OP's title does not mean "reading the OP". Furthermore you quote a question without even reading it entirely. The entire question is "Should the option of self-moderated topics get banned as alleged by Unknown01 (see below) or should the option of self-moderation continue to be possible? ".


Where is the suggestion here? From "So, what's your opinion?" I understand that 1miau is asking a question, not making any suggestion. Are you blind or just sig-spamming?


To whom are you addressing here?

---

1miau, you should ignore this sig-spammer, as all he does is trying to look smart now, after being caught by you that he did not even read your topic and hurried to post for reaching his signature quota.

Self-moderated topics are great and beneficial but they can be like double-edged sword sometimes.
History showed that scammers in forum often used them to trick other people and to delete unwanted comments they don't like.
I am creating self-moderated topics only when I expect more spam comments and whenI don't want to wait for moderators to delete posts I reported.
I wouldn't waste time on opinions from people like UnknownO1

Deviating from the context in which this thread was created(unknown01), I will speak generally about self moderation in the forum.

I voted that self moderation should remain because without self moderating some certain posts, they could be hijacked by spammers and scammers before moderators will notice. Again, moderation work will be so tedious that it will become a full time job if self moderation is discontinued.

The only con of self moderated posts is if scammers create such a post and gets to delete every posts that attempt to bursted them. I don't actually know if a post can be self moderated in service board.
Another way scammers do this is by creating a post and then locking it to prevent discussion.

That being said, discontinuing self moderation will make this forum inhabitable, it is an idea no sane user of this precious forum should conceive.

Exactly that, I couldn't have said it any better.
We should always remember that services will advertise here because Bitcointalk is a well visited online place and being a well visited online place is achieved by high quality content. Like tutorials about Bitcoin, educated developers answering questions and giving insights etc.
On the contrary, spam is very harmful because (most) educated members don't want to read spam walls.
There are many crypto related online forums out there, where paid shitposting and low quality spam has turned establieshed members away and / or new members are not interested to sign up there because it's so spammy.
And Services
So, unironically, shitposters are destroying their own source of BTC.  
+1 for your comment.

---

---

Maybe your feeling is a little bit wrong today because in case you've read that and you were capable to understand what I've written there, then you would have noticed, that your claim is completely wrong.
I'm suggesting this nowhere, that self-moderation should get banned.

---

Once again, I'm suggesting this nowhere, that self-moderation should get banned.  
Obviously, you are not capable to read or understand my OP.
So, very slowly and only for you some quotes, what's my opinion on the topic:

(I'm even mentioning reasons for that...)




So, you can see: I've written it multiple times, what's my opinion on the issue.  



The member, who suggested to ban self-moderation, is Unknown01:

And yes, Unknown01 is also not capable of reading properly...

---

So, stop embarrassing yourself, that I would have "suggested" banning self-moderation. I'm opposed of banning it.

The only thing I'm asking in the poll is what Bitcointalk's public opinion on this is. It's a simple question and I've made my opinion quite clear in my OP, that I'm in favor of self-moderation.
After re-reading my OP, it's quite an achivement from you to get it that wrong, since your post is littered with numerous false claims.

---

I've not suggested anything, dude.
Your false claims don't get more accurate if you repeat them 5 times.  

The only thing what needs to stop is people like you who are not capable of reading and despite that, you are still having the boldness to reply here twice (!) to show that you've not understand anything from my OP, even after Nestade and myself pointed it out to you, that your claims are wrong...

---

That's not your business who's on my ignore list. I have no problem at all to call out liars, shitposters and spammers when I'm coming over one.  

---

I agree to your point. But that's exactly what Unknown01 did. He spammed in my topic, violated my rules and got butthurt because his posts got deleted. I even gave him an option to post it again after he will edit the rule-violations.

True, Sherlock.

---

---

Regarding our suvey: it's quite clear that our community is in favor of keeping self-moderated topics:



That's also what I've voted for and expected.  

Self moderated topic should be restricted from certain people for instance account that has bad reputation and evil records on the forum, reason being that it would eliminate scammers, i.e, if they made a reply or comments in some board having been a self moderated thread they may like have them deleted after many people has already fallen victim. However, such features is still valuable and helpful to forum especially the bounty section where lots of newbies kept spamming some of the threads with their reports.

More precisely the performance of moderation features by yourself is intended for it from some of the other benefits. People who make shitpost and or disrupt the topic of discussion are indeed disturbing and make the discussion not in line with the proper.
If you only rely on the moderator to supervise and clean the shitpost in my opinion it is a heavy work, because you have to check one by one and each page, and usually each board consists of only 1 or two moderators, especially if you have many chilboards and have many activities Utas is quite active, for me it's quite heavy work.
The moderation feature itself is one way to help moderator work in managing decent posts.

I have read your OP and I feel you are suggesting it. The topic is nice feature or should it get banned?. In the end again on the pretext of asking a question you are suggesting it So, what's your opinion? Self-moderation to get banned or to stay? Stop suggesting and start questioning!


I have already told you to add him/her to your ignore list, rather than creating such a meaningless thread because of a personal dispute. BTW, I would not appreciate anyone coming on my self-moderated thread and start giving me advice about spam and lolololo. If you do not like it stay away from a self-moderated thread. There is enough spam happening on every board and thread that are not self-moderated. If you want to control every spam happening on any thread then just apply for a mod job here.

Self-moderated topics will not appeal to those who like to behave on the forum is not entirely correct. Trolls sometimes like to annoy people with their shitposts, and moderation itself removes this opportunity from them. But just as well, I would remove self-moderation from those with negative tags so that they don't delete replies from people they don't like.
I think whoever opens a topic like this should keep it clean, as the very idea hints at it.

OP, it would seem that it's kind of anniversary thing with you and Unknown01, looking at June and seeing both threads same time of the year🤦. Both this current thread and the previous one Unknown01 and his past of shady abuses where you guys slugged it out.

Anyway, to the best of my perspecacity I believe Self-Moderated threads have done more good in weeding out spam posts than harm in preventing free press. It should stay.

The simple fact that shitposters are opposed to self-moderated topics proves that self-moderated topics are effective, otherwise why would they be annoyed by their existence ?
It's a bit ridiculous, from my point of view, asking for this system to be banned would be like asking for the grading system to be stopped for an exam because you wouldn't be able to pass it. It's stupid to get angry at seeing your posts deleted in a topic where your own posts aren't welcome (when it's for legitimate reasons), theymos himself said to be careful in these topics :


So it's in the contract, too bad for those who don't understand it.

For those who say "yes, but there are scammers who take advantage of it", this happened to me just a few days ago, so yes, it's true that some scammers can take advantage of it.
When it happened to me, I was a little weary to see that he had deleted the message in which I pointed out my doubts about his dubious topic. But after a few minutes' reflection, I understood that this was a positive thing in itself; it erased any doubt about his intentions, and provided proof that he's a dishonest user. So even in this case, self-moderated topics play a positive role. It's up to us to leave redtrusts when this system is abused, that's all.

Anything that can reduce the number of crappy posts and spam should be welcomed on our forum. Those who advocate in favor of spam and shitposting are militating against the general interest of the forum.

Yes but its not true at all, if you do a proper research of what of with who you are talking or making a business, you are not gonna have any problem.

For example if anyone scam someone here, no matter if he delete the posts or threads, the person can open a acusaation thread or put a flag on that man.

---

Well in gambling zone.... lot of spam and crap. This its one thread made by me, i know my english its not so good, but i clarify the main issue a lot of time, and the people keep coming and talking/post ton of nonsense. The link of my thread.

When i was talking about having a good sleep or a normal life and still can bet on most of the sports, they start to talk i dont know how, if the timezone affect the bet itself or the game it was playing ..... WTF.

Scammers can abuse self moderation, where warnings were deleted and it happened already.
We need to prevent abuse and need to don't allow self moderation for anyone having a negative trust from DT.

To tackle certain abuses is part of DT but also part of forum moderation. Negative trusted members should not be allowed to engage in self moderation.

Yes it is a great feature and i have nothing against it when somebody is starting a self moderated Topic.

When i write in a self moderated thread i know that its possible that the post will be gets deleted when the Topic starter thinks its not fitting in there.
I know the Topic whats it about that all and 1miau deleted some of my posts also in there even when i thought why , but it is his Topic and im ok with that.

Even when i am not always sharing the view and things from 1miau specialy in that topic.
But in this case i agree with 1miau and i voted in the poll for that the self moderation should continue to be possible.

So the self moderated Topics are good  , but as mentioned from others saddly some Scammers abuse it specialy in the Announcements (Altcoins) section.

Just my 2 cents here 

Self-moderated topics is the only way to have a proper discussion on topics that you really want. Due to the existence of forum signature ampaign, There’s a lot of user that keep dipping their noses on topic that they don’t have any good knowledge just to give an opinion especially on highly sensitive topic. Self-moderated topic helps the OP to filter all the acceptable replies for him to focus discussion on it instead of being flooded by nonsensical post that doesn't contain value.

You are either emotionally connected to Unknown01 or naturally overthinker C'mon, there is nothing wrong with you but with that person, probably yes  

There are cases when self-moderation is necessary, especially if you want to open a thread in Bitcoin Discussion board and expect serious discussion, you'll find it hard to satisfy that demand because an army of shitposters will come to spam. In this case, it's very beneficial to use self-moderation function because it won't be necessary to constantly disturb moderators and you'll be able to clean it alone + self-moderation label sometimes gives signal to shitposters to avoid thread because their shit post will be deleted. So, I agree with you!

P.S. Self-moderation should only be banned in ANN threads!

Looks like you did not read my OP because I'm not the one who suggested to ban self-moderation. Unknown01 suggested to ban self-moderation. I'm in favor of self-moderation because it helps a lot, like combatting spam. In some sections, spam is a big issue and self-moderation can help to keep our own topic clean.

It's not allowed to ask for other people's views + additional arguments why self-moderation is useful?
And I've added a poll to ask for the public opinion.

---

Exactly that. Any abuse can be proven easily by checking these archive tools. 

self-moderated is necessary for anyone who wants to reduce spam or try to prevent an individual from discussing a topic he created, but it may be misused in some boards by scammers, I remember several years ago it was the preferred method for scammers  as they create these topics with links to auto-sell link, spam topic with has a lot of false responses and deletes everyone who tries to point out because this topic is scam -----> Avoid auto-buy links, mainly locked or self-moderated. Register before dealing
Now this problem is solved by trust flags^[1] so there is no reason to ban self-moderated topics.


[1] Overview of the trust flags

I don't think the issue of self-moderation is worth our time and argument for us to start bringing diverse views on why or why not it should be banned, as that feature has done more good than bad on this forum, hence keeping the thread clean by helping individual ease the work of global moderators by deleting both spam & off-topic post made on a thread that goes against its rules and code of conduct.
While secondly, I will like to suggest that in other to avoid misuse and abuse of that self-moderation feature, it will be better if the only set of people allowed to self-moderate their post should be of the rank of "Senior Member" and above, as at that rank I'm sure such user must have known the forum better.

Ain't know who is this Unknown01 so I'll not argue about his troll and I don't even understand the arguments in your local sections since it wasn't my language, the most I've been concerned about is why someone is proposing to remove this wonderful feature that possibly helps to combat the spammer or just spamming for the sake of a signature campaign.  IMO, nothing special to him to be worried and listen to his troll, but instead putting him on our ignore list would be better.

I voted no, it should continue to be possible since it's very USEFUL to keep the forum clean and maintain healthy from irrelevant discussion.  When you're a topic starter and open a discussion thread, this feature helped a lot and it's better than locking your thread to avoid spam.

Though this feature is nice and the same on a merit system or even in a DT system, it could be also abused by anyone else.
But at least can be traceable through the archive tools.

I do not understand the reason for creating this thread. If 1miau had previous issues with Unknown01 why was this user not placed on your ignore list? As a DT user, you could have given Unknown01 a red trust and moved on. Whereas you come up with the idea of banning self moderated posts. Why? Considering the amount of spam is happening in the gambling board why do none of the DT members leave a neutral trust to those OP's? A few of them are active and are part of a signature campaign. One of the BM has multiple threads that are constantly getting bombarded with spam. No one will say anything about it as they are DT members. This is not an excuse to ban self moderated topics. I do not agree and I have voted against it.

I do not think I have ever used the self moderation feature, but there is no call for it to be removed and you do not really need to stress yourself amplifying the opinion if you do not agree with it. The statistics of posts which are created self moderated is not much, not nearly enough to cause a forum issue even if it was being commonly abused (which it is not).

The request will be rejected on merit of the argument and not the user that made it, or so it should be.

- Jay -

I don't see a valid point, why self moderated topics should be banned. It is really hard to understand why someone want to ban such feature. If someone does not like a self moderated topic, he should just reply elsewhere. We have so many topics where everyone can find a place to reply.

I have never seen it as an issue. Self moderation is good feature and should stay. 

I was actually trying to see what resulted the attack from Unknown01 but I noticed it was local language which would results me to start using translation and If does I may not get the correct information that warranted to his word of action.

Hence, what I will say is that we understand how the forum works and in local sections we are comprises of many individuals with their own ways of reasoning and if you brought a suggestion to the local board, there is every possibility that not all would agreed to what you said by then it has opened floor for criticism.

So as an experience user you aren't meant to pay attention to what people would say after giving your suggestions, if they don't like it then moved on and forget about them beside you aren't the only one who is to put everything in places I believe there are lots of people over there in your local board.

Then lastly, about self moderated option; I think there is no need to banned it after reading your above highlights, is worth to remain functional in other to keep the forum and some thread clean from spam whereby reducing much task from mod and admin. Let say in the gambling section as you mentioned, there are series of people who posts over there and there could be more spam over there so if any topic is being created, self moderated topic could be more valuable in other reduce tension and task for mods. I believe other educated users also given their reasons as well.

In summary; Let love leads despite our respective localities and countries we are still one family, one community and one bitcointalk.org, we rise by lifting others and by hearing one another in a peaceful way.

This is more like a personal conflict than for the forum good.

Each user has their own opinion to call someone is shitpost, off topic or low quality post, but you can't delete that user post because you're not a moderator. We as an user in this forum can only report that post to moderator, if the moderator didn't delete the post, you can't force them.

Now what we can do? we can only press ignore button as been pointed by @suchmoon, you can distrust him too if he leave inappropriate feedback to your or other user profile.

Discussing the good and bad about self moderated topic is like discussing mixer where it can be used for good or bad.

All (originally posted) forum posts are always getting archived. There are several tools like from TryNinja or from LoyceV.
For example from LoyceV, we have a copy of all replies of this topic here as well: https://loyce.club/archive/topics/545/5458161.html



So, in case of a self-moderated topic, all submitted posts are getting archived on LoyceV's site and everyone will be able to look up these posts on LoyceV's site, no matter if these posts are getting deleted here on Bitcointalk. All posts are getting archived there.
A scammer could be exposed easily for deleting replies in a self-moderated topic because we would be able to prove it easily. Every post is getting archived.

---

I'm thinking the same as most likely his motivation is, to ban self-moderated topics because he's a shitposter and OP of a self-moderated topic can delete his low-quality replies, should an OP of a self-moderated topic consider such replies as spammy shitposts.

I wonder what the purpose was? Obviously it’s been archiving a variety of purpose but the idea it sprang from is a history am not part of yet.

Still, self moderation has been the closest way to proper thread keeping as most times, the capable gets to pick interest in the discussion and keeps the thread as clean and on point as possible. No doubt there have been those who might use it for an abuse and delete contradictory statements or ideas that doesn’t agrees with there’s not to mention, the selection of who gets to say what.

It still plays yo the ideas of self moderation but in a way, it offs some truth.
Even still, I won’t want it washed away up as some good still comes from it.

Self-moderated threads should continue though someone might use it to abuse the system. I think there would be people like that where they delete some posts and only allow what they allow. In scamming people, they can also delete the evidence so that the victim won't be able to prove the claim unless they make a copy of it right away. I think the request to ban self-moderated won't happen as the person who requested it is a troll who doesn't deserve the attention of such issue. He will continue spamming more if that happens.

Actually, it's not my proposal to ban self-moderated topics, it's a proposal from Unknown01, a deranged troll. 

Myself, I'm in favor of self-moderation, have applied this feature in some of my topics and I'm also replying to self-moderated topics frequently.

In fact, self-moderation is a nice, additional feature here on Bitcointalk and it's helpful in many occasions. Mainly to prevent spam but also for various other cases. 

There are more serial serious arguments in the past with self-moderated topics when in the forum, DT members had fight with each other. They even included "additional rules" to prohibited members they don't want to join such discussions.

With self moderated topics, all rules set by OP and OP has freedom to delete posts on his rules and vision. It can be right or wrong rules and vision but if you don't see fit with such topics, don't join them. If you want to discuss but with your own "additional rules", start your self-moderated topics and exclude the trollers ...

I am not against your proposal but with precedent cases, I believe the self-moderated feature will remain like it be.

There is nothing inherently wrong with self-moderation. It is abused by scammers and spammers and other dross, just like any other forum feature is (trust system, merit system, etc). I think some limitations could be useful, e.g. not allowing self-mod threads for newbies. But really anyone seeing a self-mod thread created by a person they don't like should just ignore it, and if they see one created by a scammer they can use trust feedback to warn users.

As for some deranged troll threatening to "ban" this feature... I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about that.

Exactly that. It's quite spammy in the Gambling section, where many topics are flooded with dozens of low-quality spam daily. Even in 50 comments, very little information is contained.
These posts are only made due to paid signature campaigns and that's really a problem.

Luckily, some members dedicated to our Gambling board have launched new, self-moderated topics, where spam posts are getting removed, for example:

Spam topic: Premier League Prediction Thread 2023/2024 (4000 pages of replies)
Self-moderated topic: ⚽ English Premier League Season: 2021/2022 (200 pages of replies)

Hopefully, such incentives will decrease spam in that section even more as some topics are almost impossible to follow, when there are 50+ new replies every day.

I think the only one who can oposse to the self moderate topics can be the "freedoms fighters" who doesnt understand some basic and logic rules of the world.

Im not gonna talk this case itself, because i dont know him and also its not the main topic of the thread.

For me the most important poin of self moderation threads, its to avoid spam from newbies or accounts that doesnt understant the disscussion or they want to confuse.

Obviusly this can be used to not good goals, or for other pourpose, but that pass with everything in life, like nuclear energy, you can make energy or a bomb.

And this feature its very important in some games and rounds and other topics when somebody cant participate.

Also its a good tool to dont make the mdoerators work so hard, because you are making some of the work. Can you imagine the ammount of posts/reports they have to see if self mdoeration doesnt exist?.

If a scammer is abusing self-moderation, we'll have the option of providing and compiling evidence and we can make a scam accusation if OP is using self-moderation to scam people.
Remember, all posts of Bitcointalk are archived by LoyceV here: LoyceV's Topic Details: highlight deleted and edited posts (forum wide)
Finally, such an abuse would be very simple to prove and in case self-moderation is abused to scam anyone, we will be able to give out a negative trust for anyone trying a scam.


That's not true at all as long as such self-moderated rules are reasonable and not affecting a particular opinion. Most often, self-moderation is against trolling and lies, which is not an opinion because such behaviour is just meant to derail a discussion, therefore removing such posts is not "preventing the freedom of expression". Sometimes, trolls are deliberately targeting topics to derail them.
And if someone doesn't like these self-moderated rules, he should not reply there. It's as easy as it gets.
If he's just here to troll, removing these posts is totally deserved.
Forum rules are also not "preventing the freedom of expression" as well.


Then, you haven't applied the self-moderation feature properly because if these are legitimate opinions, deleting them is not ideal. Deleting is only advised if it's a troll post.  

---

Yes, he and his friends are so braindead, it's quite a clown show.

And honestly, demanding to ban the opportunity to create self-moderated topics is so shortsighted, that it's already stupid.
The forum is very big and there are so many cases where creating a self-moderated topic makes sense to remove spam effectively.
Some sections might be less spammy but we all know how spam is a big issue in many forum sections. Obviously, Unknown01 doesn’t know this or it's feeling normal for him, because he's a shitposter.

Let's take the Gambling section as an example: there are topics where dozens of replies are made every single day. These spam megathreads have grown to over 1000 (!) pages or 50k replies.
For example, this one about Bundesliga discussion: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/germany-league-bundesliga-prediction-thread-1159912
Bundesliga season is over now but still every day our shitposters are making tons of replies. Even yesterday, 25 replies have been left. Nobody is reading these shitposts, maybe a bunch of shitposters searching for crumbs to reply to.

Igebotz made a good job pointing out, how self-moderation can help to prevent shitposters flooding new Gambling topics: Gambling Board Spammers; Concerns, Solutions & Suggestions

The solution is very simple: shitposters will get their replies deleted due to self-moderation, these shitposters will get a PM and realize quickly that it's wasted time to post relies in such topics.
These shitposters will stop to shitpost in such topics and that will result in a cleaner thread.
It's simple and it's working. Great outcome from self-moderation.
But as a shitposter, these self-moderated topics are a big nuisance and it's leading to their shitposts getting deleted.  

Funnily, 2 of the biggest German shitposters (MinoRaiola and bct_ail) are part of that spammers list. And funny as well, that bct_ail is one of the shitposters shitting a reply on page 1777 on that spam megathread.
I hope that Signature campaign managers will consider the list from Igebotz and kick these shitposters out of their campaigns due to massive shitposting.

Considering the record of Unknown01 as a proven shitposter and his inability (or rather unwillingness to improve (what's a big, big shame because everyone can try at least but he refuses to do so)), it's no surprise to me that Unknown01 wants to ban all self-moderated topics because if these would get banned, he'd be able to spam his low-quality content with massively decreasing the chance of getting it deleted. Shitposters and lying trolls like Unknown01 are very fearful towards self-moderated topics because self-moderated topics will make it more likely to get low-quality spam and trolling removed.

Unknown01 has declared his willing to ban self-moderated topic here. This is the most lame way of fighting for not having your posts deleted. Of course, I am more than certain that theymos would never do such change to the forum, so this post is not an expression of me being worried for such a change. The post is aimed to show Unknown01's character and his ridiculous ideas for keeping his zero-value posts not deleted.

Of course, his character can be understood better also by looking at his Trust feedback page:

- [...] Unknown01 is a "casual but ardent shitposter". Unknown01 is not admitting his mistakes and keeps pushing his nonsense shitposting like pyramid-quoting etc.
Additionally he's misusing the trust-system by giving MinoRaiola positive trust without any involved trade [...] -- Nestade, 28.06.2022
- Spreading his insane lies about several established accounts from the German section because he's butthurt that we called out his positive trust abuse, his troll- and shitposting and his disgusting behaviour. Unknown01 is contributing nothing to the forum and recently, he has started to threaten and attack Newbies. -- 1miau, 28.06.2022

He's involved in much more abuse:

- Attacking our campaign to improve posting quality in the German section repeatedly, where we advocated to improve our liguistic writing quality (proper translations, tips to avoid unnecessary Denglish, improving spelling, punctuation etc.) and Unknown01 trashed our campaign.
- Threatening Newbies with a forum ban
- Dangerous and inappropriate use of Trust: giving positive Trust for Shitposters

---

We have a saying in Romania and it just crossed my mind: tell me who your friends are, to know who you are -- meaning that you can also understand how someone really is by taking a look at the ones he associates with.

Let's take a look at Unknown01's "friends":

- MinoRaiola -- cheating on a contest organized by himself and caught with triple plagiarism. All he says to plagiarism accuses is that he plagiarized the content 2 years ago and he does not remember it, since he does not even remember what he did in the previous day -- makes sense, right?

- s0nix -- supporter of the war, against Ukraine, where also our dear icopress is affected by Putler's disgusting invasion against Ukraine, so it's no surprise, that s0nix is a troll and shitposter + also friend to Koal-84. Should we also talk about Koal-84? Lol.

I believe that, expecting Unknown01's personal actions, his association to such shitty users also says a lot about his character and mindset.

With the above points that you have given, it's definitely worth it. But when it comes to scammers using the forum, the reverse is also the case; they create self-moderated topics where the only comments they allow to stay are anything dropped by them, that of their alt accounts, or anything that just has to be positive based on their discussion.

Another thing about self-moderated topics is that, since it helps filter scammers, to some point it also prevents the freedom of expression kind of thing here in the forum, where all of us are entitled to our own opinion. If I'm the creator of a self-moderated thread and it happens to be that the majority of the people commenting under it are against my opinion, I might likely wipe all those comments and leave only those that I see as being in my favor. I've come across a thread where a few of my posts were deleted back when I was still a newbie, if I remember correctly.

So if I'm to be asked, a self-moderated topic is good depending on the OP and how it's being used. There are situations where they are really necessary, but for threads that require open discussion and want people's opinions, I see it as unfair to make them self-moderated.

In my opinion, self-moderated topics are a great feature of Bitcointalk for many reasons, for example:

- managing a Service and preventing trolls from flooding it
- great for the Gambling section, where so much spam can be prevented if OP is knowledgeable in the sport and can delete spam from Gambling spammers who have no clue about the sport
- preventing extra work for moderators, removing spam quickly
- setting up unique self-moderated rules to improve posting quality for example, as long as these self-moderated rules do not violate the official rules and are resonable

There are much more probably. The forum is very big and self-moderation is a great feature.


But recently in our German section, Unknown01 attacked me like a troll by calling me "mentally ill person" because I'm trying to improve posting quality on Bitcointalk.
In addition, Unknown01 alleged that:


What's your opinion about this?
Considering Unknown01 and his past of shady abuses, such a suggestion is just showing how limited his knowledge about the forum really is.

I'm completely against what Unknown01 suggested because self-moderation is vital in my opinion. We should not ban it.
Removing this feature would be insanely sad and affect the forum very negatively in my opinion.

So, what's your opinion? Self-moderation to get banned or to stay?  
Do you have more points, why self-moderation is a beneficial feature for Bitcointalk?
Looking forward to your replies and your votes.