Topic: User: Unknown01 threatens me with a forum ban for saying my opinion (Read 1951 times)

Sorry, but are you really suggesting, that Unknown01's threat against Kamix of sending a list of accounts to theymos, was NOT intended to threat him with a ban?
No offense, but are you sure, that you're neutral in this case?

+1

---

- I condemn Unknown01 and his colleagues' whataboutism and trivialization of war
- I condemn threatening other members with ban for no reason
- I condemn Unknown01 and his colleagues' lies and of course lying in general
- I condemn (Kremlin-)trolls
- I condemn Unknown01 and his colleagues' false accusations

List of suspicious accounts? Are you kidding? Why is my account suspicious? Because I won't just let your disgusting statements stand? And why should my account even get banned? All I have done is speak my opinion and you threaten me and try to shut me up. You are a disgusting Putin lover who distorts facts and spreads lies. You sit in front of your computer and spread lies and try to suppress others. But you did not expect that I will resist and now you try everything to turn the situation in your favor.

To make it clear for everyone here: Unknown01 and his friends spread hate and lies, commit trust farming, and abuse the feedback system. The evidence is all here in the thread!

~Unknown01
~s0nix
~MinoRaiola
~thandie
~Poly#Crypto

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dangerous-and-inappropriate-use-of-trust-giving-positive-trust-for-shitposters-5404167
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60450776

If I stated or implied that Unknown01 threatened Kamix in that way, I retract all of that now.  I think I was speaking in generalities and not pointing any fingers since I hadn't dug into the evidence (or apparent lack thereof).  In any case, this is a shitshow.  I stand by what I said about forum bullying, but it sure doesn't look like that was happening in this case.

I've been here since COVID-19 was first being discussed, and (at least from my perspective) none of that was as divisive as the Ukraine/Russia conflict--and understandably so.  I can see that's the case, and I'm not even part of any of the local boards.  It must be complete chaos in those dedicated to the people most closely affected by the war.  Tempers are running high and short, and I'm hoping things can eventually get back to the way they were.  My optimism on that front is tempered by my experience with this forum and its members in general, however.

I feel you, mole0815.  I made a comment recently about free speech and the trust system, giving my opinion on it as someone who's been here for years.  What happens?  I get insulted by being asked if I'm only here for a paycheck....by a well-respected member and campaign manager who's been handing out said paychecks for a long time.  See here for details.  

I've always felt you've got to have a very thick skin to really love bitcointalk, and boy is that being tested these days.  But somehow the rules of the forum have to reign supreme over whatever is going on in the world; there can't be any sides being taken by the forum itself or pity being given to members simply because they're in a hard situation.  

Mole0815, take a break if you need to.  I'm considering that myself, at least for a short time.  When real-life shit starts flowing into an online forum and in turn only contributes to that real-life shit, that's a sign some cooling down is needed.

Are we seriously at the point where posts like this (public condemnations) have to be written?  Fuck me.

That's right, I write a list of all suspicious accounts, you never know what will come in the future and theymos can certainly carry out a comparison using IP addresses or other data to find abnormalities, but I'm no expert and would only have tried to support with the list. However, the list does not mean that everyone on it must have done something wrong (apart from offending others which is only punished for very bad offenses).

It will probably still be allowed to write down user names, right?  

And only those who actually did something wrong need to feel threatened and no one else, since Kamix claims not to have done anything wrong, he needn´t have any fears either - if that's true. The same applies to the others and they are also free to report my account to theymos and he can compare my data with pleasure.    I would be honored if theymos would look at my data, nothing to worry about on my part.  

But of all, I wonder what a newbie is afraid of, even if I was able to ban the account, he can instantly create an account again (sure it's stupid and I would never block an account without sufficient reason anyway). Of course, the situation would be different if other accounts were linked to the account - then I would also be afraid that my worked up accounts would also be banned - but that's not the case, is it?  

By the way, I haven't reported anything yet, what do you think I should do? I just think that theymos is busy anyway and I don't like to bother him unless I have to.

Still open questions?


edit: But you can see right away that as soon as someone has the opposite opinion, the persons are automatically attacked, such as mole now, who is even a moderator. Even if he would testifie completely against me, I would never presume to accuse him of anything, like I did with Lafu.

The funniest thing is that Nestade & 1miau kept accusing me of being to blame for everything. I definitely admit that I am partly to blame, because I could have abstained from the start and therefore would not have had any trouble, but wouldn't that be censorship? I wouldn't have dared to speak my mind because otherwise a few others could riot (which happened too) but I don't let people oppress me like the Nazis or Putin are doing. And now mole explains his point of view and blames us and them as much and now I would be very interested to know whether they can also admit the guilt or whether they will now withdraw their statements and trust entries, since it is obviously not true?

edit 2: Negative Feedback: User   Date   Reference   Comments
Kamix   2022-06-29   Reference   Spreading lies about my person; threatening me with being banned from the forum

 

I have nothing to say, where did I threaten him again? Am I maybe schizophrenic and don't realize that I'm threatening others? Please enlighten me or tell me  

I've been a bystander to this whole drama on our local german board the whole time but I just feel like writing my point of view for other non german speaking individuals here to better understand the whole situation.

I've never participated in the highly controversial off topic threads. At some point people started attacking each other in the normal threads because they disagree with each other in the corona thread. That by itself was really absurd to me. Why do people have to discuss about corona on a bitcoin forum and then hate on each other in the other threads about bitcoin and the forum just because they have different political opinions.

This escalated to the point where users were being excluded from free raffles, attacked heavily for their political point of view and also their posting patterns, which pretty much affects the 'Unknown01 group' mostly while others are being blamed for destroying the harmony on the forum.

I am not taking any sides here as I don't care about your political views and don't mind anyone here on the forum.

To me as an outstander it really looks like you couldn't achieve anything by criticising each others political views so you all had to start criticising posting patterns etc.

I won't comment on the use of the trust system, posting/quoting patterns etc. either as I believe that all of this started just from different political views.
I assume so because as far as I can tell, there hasn't been such drama before the whole off-topic / corona controversials.

The situation is fucked up and I doubt that there is any way to change things to the way they were before.

Therefore I also suggest to just ignore each other. None of you are gonna get banned, nobody has to lay down their signature and the whole fighting will lead to absolutely nothing (except a few more trust entries which are completely unnecessary).

I can't even imagine the stress @mole0815 has with moderating this whole absurdity and now he's even being tagged for apparently taking sides here ?
I've seen so many posts deleted on both sides in the past few weeks and now that @mole0815 comments on here he/she immediately gets tagged simply because he/she is not sharing your opinion.

This is getting absurd and I will try to stay out of this whole discussion for now, although I guess that I will also get replies to my post.

Maybe he wanted to ask theymos to look for commonalities in the logs? So whether a few new users have a connection with each other or with other existing users? Possibly it would be but Unknown01 can certainly better than I say what he meant.

No idea but from a ban or report to get rid of him I can see nothing.
But that is exactly what is discussed here for pages.

In my opinion, it was waited until there is a reason to make the step towards Reputation to then address everything that has accumulated so the last few weeks. But that is of course no insinuation or official statement... only my private opinion.
I do not have to speak for others here but I will be allowed to say my thoughts and if that is used directly against me again, that also says a lot.

I abhor this (and all other) wars.
But since you do not want to understand my texts, we should really leave the topic here. There are still a few suitable places in the forum.
Only in our German speaking not more because this topic (together with Corona) has provided us the whole problems.


It never happened that way. And both have violated netiquette (which would then be the only official offense).

I see!
You are not interested that Unknown01 tried to opress Kamix. What's Kamix 'crime'? Kamix pointed out, how Unknown01 enabled Putin!

Here's some 'both sides' for you:

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1541889645608402946?cxt=HHwWhIC8ldSd8uUqAAAA
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1541911714228314114?cxt=HHwWhIC9mZyi_OUqAAAA

Bbbbbbut Russia has 'reasons'.
There are NO REASONS! 

Watch it!

Well then I again Hetadrop.
1) I have also never forbidden you the opinion. But it must be the truth - A ban was never the issue and even if it is brought up fifteen more times.
2) The topic here is not Russia, the war or whatever.

It is here about accusations against a few users and meanwhile also me which I cannot leave so in the room. My task is among other things also on the German speaking area in the forum to watch out.

And if absolutely everyone is allowed to say something (which is of course a good thing) then I will have this right too
But there is no point to discuss further. My point of view you now know and as already feared that will hit the next waves but I had to expect when I get to speak.

Just one of the reasons why other users do not.

I guess it's addresed from you that you say my posts is invalid?
Great, we are not allowed to make up our own opinion because you say so?

Translators have become really good, over the years!
German to English translation is no big deal for translators anymore.

Translations from very different languages (Arabic or Russian) are a different thing.
But German to English is well established.
I can translate it word for word.

My posts stands:



I see where you stand, mole0815, why are Germans always enabling Russia?
You have purchased your cheap gas for years from Russia and are just caring for your own profit!
"Never again" from 3rd Reich is pretty meaningless!


Why it's so difficult for Unknown01 to make a real apology to Kamix?
Its nuts.



That's called whataboutism!
There's only ONE COUNTRY invading another! RuZZia is invading Ukraine!
I see where you stand!

Say one thing here, do one thing in another place!

People like you are the reason why Ukraine might lose.
Stop undermining military support for Ukraine by saying Russia is 'provoked'.
Because it is not!
Putin and his circle is the problem. Nothing else!

I'll just make it clear:

- I don't know mole or anyone else from the forum personally
- I am not in any telegram group with mole
- I don't use Telegram at all since almost 1-2 years
- I am not in touch with anyone else from the forum outside of the forum (nowhere, on any other platform or app)
- I have no other accounts in this forum
- I didn't threaten anyone with a ban
- I've never personally threatened Kamix in general
- I didn't offend anyone
- I am against the war
- I am not Russian and I do not support the Russian war
- I have never engaged in propaganda for Russia
- I have no contact whatsoever with Russia
- I live in Europe and the last thing I want is to see a war in Europe
- I don't wish us a war in the world in general
- I did not intentionally exploit the trust system
- I don't apologize for something I didn't do
- I condemn both Russia and NATO for using us in Europe to carry out their conflict on our ground
- I also condemn the media propaganda on our side
- Of course, I also condemn the propaganda from Russian side
- I also condemn any right-wing extremist or racist
- But I also condemn every left-wing extremist
- I also condemn every American cop who murdered a black man
- But I also condemn every Russian leader who has a hand in this war
- But I also condemn every Western leader who has a hand in this war


In general, I am for peace and neutrality and I condemn all forms of violence

Do you want me to clarify something else?

This arguments are unfortunately weak and also not the truth.
Neither do I deny you the right to express your opinion, nor do I say that Unknown01 (or whoever) should have more rights than you.
I am certainly the last to delete something (and that is exactly what I am accused of). Slowly I don't know where the problem is anymore.

That's how opinion mongering works... You are joining the same propaganda that Unknown01 and your friends are showing. The user is denied legitimacy because he does not belong to the long-standing clique. Facts are denied, evidence are deleted and the user is discredited until no one believes him anymore. And you are talking about free speech?

I've been registered here since 2020 and have been reading along since then. Just because I don't post, my opinion doesn't apply? That's why I should keep my mouth shut and not speak out? Am I also not allowed to write trust entries because you don't like it?

Just because you and Unknown01 rank higher on Bitcointalk it doesn't mean the rules don't apply to everyone.

Dear Kamix,

you were not very active in the forum before and you have never been in the reputations. But then you come with 2 perfectly prepared posts around the corner and now accuse me of things that do not correspond to the truth?
First in general: No one has spoken of a ban because that is also not possible under these circumstances.
And now in detail: First this post in which you are asking unknowing what is going on here.
But only a few hours less you are completely in the game, have a perfectly prepared post with false statements at hand and put yourself as a victim?

Again.
1) There are no sides for me and therefore I can not choose one.
2) I know Unknown01 as well (or not well) as you do.
3) As mentioned several times, there is not and never has been a Telegram group with anyone addressed here.

I hope this clarifies some things again. As long as we all stay with the truth is all good.

//edit: Well, it didn't take long with the first Trust entry. Now it's getting really ridiculous.

You have chosen your side...

Unknown01 is writing about reporting me to theymos? What else would be the reason besides a ban? That I meet with theymos for coffee?

The statement is more than clear. If you claim otherwise, you do so not as a fair moderator but because you are friends with Unknown01. No wonder that he cleared all the evidence that you are in a Telegram group with him.

By the way, I have also received several messages from people who have given me encouragement but do not want to speak publicly here because they are afraid of Unknown01 and your moderation.

It was necessary to address this problem, even if you now continue to try to sweep things under the carpet, because you do not want to stand in a bad light.

This is exactly why the German board is nothing more than a pool of trolls, conspiracy theories, and hate that you couldn't express anywhere else in Germany.

I wanted to stay out of the drama - honestly! Since the thread has occupied me last night for several hours and I have lain awake but I must get rid of a few things. Started now at 10:35 in my time zone.
But since I was asked several times by users to take a stand (because they either do not have the opportunity to do that in English or also (sad but is so) are afraid to stand up for their opinion) I may now take over.

The things that are coming now were not said/commanded/wanted or whatever by anyone. This is my neutral view of the situation in which we find ourselves.

Is this now about Unknown01 and the accusations from the first post?

Or in general about the German subboard?
If yes then maybe we should start a new thread and not drift completely into off-topic.
But since there are already so many accusations in the room, a few words from me:

@Kamix
In my opinion the statements of Unknown01 towards you, which were mentioned here several times, did not exist in this form and 2. NeuroticFish created a short discussion about this topic in the Meta: Is one forum rule needed?
Result: Even if he had said it, it would not have been a rule violation. But since it wasn't, I see even less than no problem here.
In the tone, you both were out of line. But whether a Hero to Jr. or Jr. to Hero - netiquette has not been met by either.

@all
There is no point in translating various statements, because the small details and subtleties are lost, but they are crucial.
Unknown01 has never threatened Kamix with a ban. But that's exactly what is mentioned here again and again and that's the basis for many other accusations that are in the room.

This would take away the basis of the thread but that was never the point here. On such a statement was only waited so that a campaign against a few users can be started.
You can see that here and meanwhile also here.

@1miau
Is that necessary?
No one has had more double posts in recent months that had to be merged by me.
Nobody in our area has deleted texts 1:1 posted again except you.
And you even several times as for example here + here and in addition you tell me to continue with it until I do not also remove contribution X or Y that does not correspond to your opinion!
And in addition I had for weeks 99% (or more) of all reports from Nestade and you. Every post I've read 3 or 10 times and either deleted (or not) came back again and again until I eventually gave in or had to press a button to get it to the next moderator.

Is this behavior supposed to be okay?
Who always rides on the rules should also keep them themselves. I have never made a big barrel out of it but maybe now is the right time.

---

I also see the loss of quality in the German forum but in my opinion that also has to do with the departure of e.g. asche, aundroid, bob123, tyKiwanuka to name a few.
Is it because of Corona? Maybe. Is it because of the situation in the world? Maybe. But no one has ever said to me that he leaves the forum because the other users are too bad. If it is the mood and we can only work together!

If a handful of users put the complete energy in a series of unnecessary threads that are inappropriate here in the forum anyway and I quasi 100% of my time for this. So unfortunately weekly XX hours are lost which we could use sensibly to make the forum a better place.

So not only criticize but also bring constructive solution proposals would help. And that WITHOUT insulting anyone - Lafu has shown how it works.

(Here at this point I had a few sentences and clarifications to the other users who have participated in the thread but I have rather removed again. Brings only more trouble to cause but please stay on topic and do not mix here again X things. Because if we now bring here in addition to the topic Trust the Merits in the game and you look at who/when/where for which has awarded in recent times then it shows an interesting picture of the users involved).

The Corona topic has split our forum. Other topics have followed from it and by then the fronts were already hardened.
I have tried everything that is possible for me... Examples?

On 28-02-2022, 29-03-2022, 07-06-2022 + 15-06-2022 I have asked my colleagues from the staff for help or information on how to deal with the whole issue.
Unfortunately, there is no general answer and therefore I tried to deal with the issue on my own. Probably we should have nipped all topics that do not concern the crypto environment in the bud right away.

On 30-04-2021 the question if we should ban Corona from the forum: Corona Thread schließen?
On 17-05-2021 the decision to leave it open but delete everything that violates netiquette: Corona Thread - finale Abstimmung!
Went briefly well but then the censorship outcry was immediately large again.
When I announced to edit only real rule violations and not to work off every report (which in my opinion is not justified) my own posts (here and here) were reported to me.
I am not an instrument that you can use for your own purposes! There are rules and we all have to follow them.

Any other moderator would have reacted quite differently, but you have to understand that I, as a person with incredibly good nerves, no longer have any. Since the topic as I said now even de sleep robs me must change something.

I want peace in my life and after X months of chaos and hostility I have no more patience.
It is in the meantime no more joy to visit the forum.
Neither can I care about topics that interest me nor can I enjoy it here because we only have hate and unnecessary discussions.

There is no goal and no end. You can color your accounts in some (DT) colors or whatever.
Bitcointalk stands for free speech and nothing will change - If it does then theymos, cyrus or mprep will tell me and then I will change my way of working.... as long as this does not happen and also e.g. here nothing happens here in this direction I behave with the rules accordingly correctly.

But I can not understand why a few of you are constantly trying to teach other users, to insult (both sides) and to exploit board resources in order to censor them.

If the German forum is bad you can be in the English part of Bitcointalk.
If the forum in general is so bad then stop trying to change it and maybe look for an alternative.

Everything written here is not defamation, hostility or trying to make the situation worse. I just want the Bitcointalk back that I was always impressed by with full conviction. Unfortunately, it is no longer that way currently.
And no I do not trivialize war + abhor violence (I just wanted to mention specifically so that this is clear and I am not still put in the wrong corner).

I don't know if all this was a good idea?
Probably not and I think it will also be prepared about or actually against me somewhere or can be found but I have to live with it.
I have spoken here not only for me but for a few more users (which is also my task as a moderator) and hope now to have clarified a few things.
I am neither friends nor enemies with any of the users involved here. I am also not on either side. I just want to get some peace in (at least) our part of the forum and finally discuss meaningful topics again.

End at 11:48 of my time zone.
Thank you (all) for letting me (again) invest so much time (~70 minutes) in topics that are of absolutely no use to anyone.
Click on ignore, rate yourselves as you like but don't constantly make ALL users in the German area bad because 99,8% can't do anything for your differences.

In this sense - have a nice day and maybe we should all go back a few steps to look at various topics again with some distance to not get stuck for eternity.

The relativization of the war in Ukraine by Unknown01 and the well-known other users is an enormous problem. Posts are made that would not be possible in the German public sphere. These posts come again and again. The German part of the forum would be a no-go area for me in public. If this will not change, I belive more and more active members will leave the forum. What remainds are Kremlin trolls and people who do not care if someone spreads Putin porpaganda.

I have Google Translate on my phone and I have red your posts and posts from Kamix and posts from s0nix and I’m speechless!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60448460

You are somehow justifying that there are 'reasons' for Russia to invade Ukraine! Where did you got that script? Directly from Moscow?
Maybe you are also of the opinion that Ukraine is a puppet state of NATO? Are you? More scripts directly from Moscow?

That’s just the last page, I don’t want to mention the criminal comments from s0nix a few posts before.

Because your compilation of excuses for Putins war crimes goes on in your posts, where you are hating against Kamix! He’s so true! He pointed to you links to Russian war crimes! He sended you a Ponomarenko link, Ponomarenko has huge credibility! You should read his statements to see what’s going really on in Ukraine! Putin TV is no reality, do you know!
Kamix gave you recommend to visit Ukraine war places, where russian gnomes are doing murder!
He is right! Go there!

But what are you doing after Kamix post, when you are confronted with reality?
You are threatening Kamix with a ban from theymos, providing more aggressive words against Kamix.
The spechlessest part is when you call his findings lies!
It’s not lies, you are making the lies!

Please stop doing this, Putin makes applause for you! 
Can you publicly write a message where you directly say your reaction was totally wrong what you did to Kamix?
What you did was wrong and Kamix was in his post accurate on pointing out that you are indeed justifying russian war crimes by saying russia is provoked, by saying Kamix is making lies? Because any one know: nobody 'provoked Russia', links from Ponomarenko aren’t lies! Show some respect to Ponomarenko!

Russia has no 'reasons' to invade in another country!

Quit your wrong claims please and say full apologies to Kamix where you say he was right in his reply to your script from Moscow!

Slava Ukraini!

First of all I know that you are a neutral person and therefore I do not blame you, if you take the view that I sometimes write shitposts then that is your view and that is fine too. I know your contribution to the forum and know that you are always there for everyone and support everyone who asks for it. I have read your post about Trust and you are welcome to refer me or MinoRaiola (maybe it's wrong to decide that on his behalf) to our mistake, I personally have acted to the best of my knowledge and belief and think that my feedback and my trust entries are right. I like to talk to a normal person who doesn't offend and wants positiv things, I generally tolerate criticism very well and therefore you are very welcome to publish a critical or helpful contribution to my settings in the German board (in your topic) and we can then discuss everything there (in German please, it's just more comfortable and easier). You are also welcome to point this out to me via PM if you prefer, I don't care if we talk via PM or publicly.

Regarding my behavior towards newcomers, well how would you react if someone scolded you for emigrating, kissing Putin's ass, etc.? I was completely calm about this and just pointed out that this pattern of behavior has been repeating itself in last time and that I will create a list of conspicuous users and forward it to theymos. There was no threat of a ban mentioned in any way, and no one was personally threatened on my part. Only people who actually did something wrong need to feel threatened by this statement. Compared to other users who are new to the forum and behave normally, I've never been conspicuous, why should I? The rank doesn't matter to me as long as my counterpart speaks to me respectfully and humanely.  

By the way this is how you should express criticism without insulting someone right away


Edit: in addition: with your assumption that it just degenerated because of the lack of understanding in the DT. Please Lafu, regardless of which view you share on the Corona topic, everyone who read along knows that the problem was that 1miau cannot accept other opinions. We also had discussions with qwk, why didn't we have any problems with him?!

Many thanks for your 2-3 cents (or sats), much appreciated to get your input here.  

I agree to what you've written here especially to your recommendation for lower ranked accounts to do sufficient research about DT before using it. Especially after it's pointed out to someone.
You are right that there are too much shitposts on the forum, so yes, but that's another issue where improvement is important.
I agree to your comment about my neutral trust given out for Unknown01 and I have reduced the entries to have one entry for each severe offense (no self-reflection after being called out for sigspam; defamations and libel against me; defamations and threats against Kamix), to be able to present all reference links. A separate entry for each offense sounds fair.
I'll keep the date for each feedback intact.


That's true, the evidence was presented and DT acted quickly.
It's essential to have a proper use of positive trust because a lenient use of positive trust will lead to more scams quickly, when scammers are taking advantage from it to abuse it our bounty spammers are starting to circle it to each other or even sending their low quality spams friends into DT to manipulate it.
Positive trust would become a meaningless metric when used inflationary.

Luckily it's solved now and unfortunately it had to be solved by DT, not by self-reflections from the accounts in question.  
The positive part from it: everyone can see, that DT is working.