Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack - page 38.

BitLucky

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Quote from: kentrolla on July 29, 2012, 03:37:42 AM

Quote from: shockD on July 29, 2012, 03:05:54 AM

And despite the advice of several forum posters, you're still talking here... You really aren't doing yourself a favor with comments like these. Frankly I've got nothing invested in this but my opinion of you lowers every time you open your mouth. Take some friendly advice and stop talking. You're in deep here and you need to lawyer up and stfu.

This ^

zhou, i personally believe you are innocent. You really need to "lawyer up and STFU"

If Zhou was innocent, he certainly would "lawyer up and STFU", but he is not.

JoelKatz

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Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 29, 2012, 03:55:46 AM

As in they were allowed to "look at the books" and the deal was just waiting for final agreement between parties? Doesn't sound like it.

That is correct. I believe the negotiations were tanked by the last theft which left insufficient resources to make 100% restitution and the deal just couldn't work any other way. Though it's also possible that due diligence would have revealed some reason the deal could not have worked, such as Bitcoinica's assets and obligations not being as represented. At this point, I'll leave it for those involved to say more if they wish to.

kentrolla

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Quote from: JoelKatz on July 29, 2012, 03:52:57 AM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 29, 2012, 03:43:25 AM

Deals confirmed by extremely reliable 3rd parties with access to Bitcoinica's actual financial status?

I'm not sure what you mean by "confirmed". The offers were made and I know of no reason those deals would not have worked out. It is possible that Bitcoinica's actual financial status was nothing like it was believed to be, in which case the deals would likely not have worked out. That would require everyone at Bitcoinica to have been lying, which though possible, doesn't seem particularly likely to me.

Quote

zhou, i personally believe you are innocent. You really need to "lawyer up and STFU"

This assumes that Zhou is more concerned about possible criminal charges or the like than he is concerned about his reputation in the industry. I think he's more concerned about the latter, and that's part of the reason I also think the Bitcoinica situation is more or less as reported. Everyone involved intends to have a future once they get past this mess.

reputation and criminal charges go hand in hand. There are plenty of ways to "prove" and innocent person is guilty, especially if he talks a lot.
Getting a lawyer would help you with both criminal charges and reputation when all is said and done.
there is a common misconception that only guilty people need lawyers. I would go as far to say that innocent people need lawyers even more, especially in a situation this complex.

defxor

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Quote from: btcprophet on July 29, 2012, 01:59:11 AM

Hey Zhou, does this ring any bells?

kid hacks together a flaky leveraged trading platform
everyone on HN tells him to pack it up now before lots of people lose lots of money, he doesn't listen
site is losing money, the kid is in way over his head
kid keeps losses secret, perhaps covers with his own money hoping he can make it work
foolish buyer appears - the kid happily dumps the mess he's made
no longer feeling responsible, he trivially fakes a hack (those annoying forum critics were predicting it so let them have it!) and sets himself up with a nice stash of bitcoins
kid's attempt to just walk away fail as new owners start questioning the lack of promised profits
time for another hack (it worked so well the first time!) but this time the goal is getting rid of the database that most likely contradicted lies told to the new owner
the poor suckers left holding the bag flail around trying to figure out who to give the remaining money
emboldened by prior success, the kid sees yet another opportunity to loot the steaming rubble of his handiwork
this time he gets careless and gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, concocts a story less believable than the plot of Prometheus

Enough with the lies. I am sympathetic to the story of an ambitious kid who got in too deep and can't figure a way out but a window for claiming this story is rapidly closing. If you stick with your current course you are embracing your new identity of a boldfaced liar and a thief.

You probably still believe you can fix this and come out relatively unscathed but you are deluding yourself. It's time to tell the truth - all of it. It will free you and trust me - the consequences won't be anywhere near as severe as the alternative.

That's the most likely turn of events. Add the following to understand Zhou's behavior. At all points in time he's just been trying to avoid facing the cognitive dissonance of having to admit it to himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica

repentance

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Quote from: JoelKatz on July 29, 2012, 03:52:57 AM

This assumes that Zhou is more concerned about possible criminal charges or the like than he is concerned about his reputation in the industry. I think he's more concerned about the latter, and that's part of the reason I also think the Bitcoinica situation is more or less as reported. Everyone involved intends to have a future once they get past this mess.

Written 5 days ago.

Quote

I don't really care about my reputation now even. If I start a bank or investment firm in my 30s, I think not many people will still mind putting their money on my hand. And I'm not going to build anything Bitcoin-related in the foreseeable future. I'll simply go back to my SaaS business.

The big problem is the criminal charge. Bitcoin is a big unknown in the legal world and anything can happen if the police touches this case (unlicensed market operation? terrorism? money laundering?). It makes possible things like migration in the future way harder than they should be.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1050141

Phinnaeus Gage

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Quote from: Bigpiggy01 on July 29, 2012, 03:11:55 AM

http://www.echinacities.com/expat-corner/illogical-or-tactical-lies-in-chinese-culture.html

Really says it all Angry

Now that was an interesting read. I have one question. How can a jurist tell when somebody is lying or telling the truth on the witness stand?

Coinoisseur

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As in they were allowed to "look at the books" and the deal was just waiting for final agreement between parties? Doesn't sound like it.

JoelKatz

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Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 29, 2012, 03:43:25 AM

Deals confirmed by extremely reliable 3rd parties with access to Bitcoinica's actual financial status?

I'm not sure what you mean by "confirmed". The offers were made and I know of no reason those deals would not have worked out. It is possible that Bitcoinica's actual financial status was nothing like it was believed to be, in which case the deals would likely not have worked out. That would require everyone at Bitcoinica to have been lying, which though possible, doesn't seem particularly likely to me.

Quote

zhou, i personally believe you are innocent. You really need to "lawyer up and STFU"

This assumes that Zhou is more concerned about possible criminal charges or the like than he is concerned about his reputation in the industry. I think he's more concerned about the latter, and that's part of the reason I also think the Bitcoinica situation is more or less as reported. Everyone involved intends to have a future once they get past this mess.

Coinoisseur

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Deals confirmed by extremely reliable 3rd parties with access to Bitcoinica's actual financial status?

Quote from: JoelKatz on July 29, 2012, 03:33:16 AM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 29, 2012, 03:29:25 AM

Bitcoinica really should have been wound up by a NZ receivership as soon as it was found to be unable to repay 100% of deposits.

There were deals on the table that would have resulted in 100% return of deposits up until the latest hack. There might even still be, though it seems much less likely now.

kentrolla

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Quote from: shockD on July 29, 2012, 03:05:54 AM

Quote from: zhoutong on July 29, 2012, 02:49:06 AM

It's my personal freedom to create an account with reused password right? And did I harm anyone?

Chen Jianhai could simply register another email and steal all the money. And we wouldn't proceed with investigation like today. Thank god he used my account and left all the evidence there, otherwise Bitcoinica users will never see the money again!

And despite the advice of several forum posters, you're still talking here... You really aren't doing yourself a favor with comments like these. Frankly I've got nothing invested in this but my opinion of you lowers every time you open your mouth. Take some friendly advice and stop talking. You're in deep here and you need to lawyer up and stfu.

This ^

zhou, i personally believe you are innocent. You really need to "lawyer up and STFU"

repentance

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Quote from: Bigpiggy01 on July 29, 2012, 03:11:55 AM

http://www.echinacities.com/expat-corner/illogical-or-tactical-lies-in-chinese-culture.html

Really says it all Angry

I'm half expecting to read that Chen can't start transferring the funds until he's received a Western Union payment . Modalities are important!

Given that Chen was keeping tabs on Zhou enough to make a 100 BTC donation when Zhou was distributing the 5000 BTC, I consider it highly unlikely that he's not reading this thread in which he's the starring character.

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 29, 2012, 03:29:25 AM

Bitcoinica really should have been wound up by a NZ receivership as soon as it was found to be unable to repay 100% of deposits.

There were deals on the table that would have resulted in 100% return of deposits up until the latest hack. There might even still be, though it seems much less likely now.

Coinoisseur

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They haven't gotten much in the way of reimbursement when the money was mostly NOT stolen. I could see some strength in arguing for reimbursement if we were only a short time into Bitcoinica becoming a non-functioning entity. However, it is quite late and the more time that passes the less likely any satisfactory resolution will be reached. Very similar to kidnappings. Bitcoinica really should have been wound up by a NZ receivership as soon as it was found to be unable to repay 100% of deposits.

Quote from: zhoutong on July 29, 2012, 02:55:38 AM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 29, 2012, 02:49:31 AM

So you'd rather cross your fingers and hope no authorities uncover your email address and it's contents (subpoena google) than file a police complaint and have it on file and perhaps assist in catching the real culprits?

Quote from: zhoutong on July 29, 2012, 02:39:15 AM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 28, 2012, 11:32:01 PM

Because they involved your account in the crime and also, according to you (Zhou Tong) used it for credit card fraud. People file police reports for much, much smaller thefts. Insurance companies have people file reports as a sign of honesty. Lots of reasons to file a report.

Quote from: zhoutong on July 28, 2012, 11:28:16 PM

The hacker didn't steal from me. Why should I file a police report?

The credit card fraud isn't for me. He used someone else card to buy stuff and ship to a freight forwarder. And he entered that email address for the order.

Can you allow me to get the money back from him before reporting to the police? Bitcoinica customers are clearly the real victims here.

BitLucky

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Quote from: zhoutong on July 28, 2012, 11:14:14 PM

He had access to source code after genjix released it.

how? if he apparently doesn't read the forums;

Quote from: zhoutong on July 26, 2012, 05:46:19 AM

His English is not very proficient and I'm sure that he's not reading this forum at the moment.

Bigpiggy01

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http://www.echinacities.com/expat-corner/illogical-or-tactical-lies-in-chinese-culture.html

Really says it all Angry

shockD

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Quote from: zhoutong on July 29, 2012, 02:49:06 AM

It's my personal freedom to create an account with reused password right? And did I harm anyone?

Chen Jianhai could simply register another email and steal all the money. And we wouldn't proceed with investigation like today. Thank god he used my account and left all the evidence there, otherwise Bitcoinica users will never see the money again!

And despite the advice of several forum posters, you're still talking here... You really aren't doing yourself a favor with comments like these. Frankly I've got nothing invested in this but my opinion of you lowers every time you open your mouth. Take some friendly advice and stop talking. You're in deep here and you need to lawyer up and stfu.

Dusty

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The fact that despite the high number of individuals and the high amount of money lost in this mess nobody has yet filed a police report is a clear indicator of how much we (as citizens) value the work of the police and its ability to deliver satisfying action.

zhoutong

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Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 29, 2012, 02:49:31 AM

So you'd rather cross your fingers and hope no authorities uncover your email address and it's contents (subpoena google) than file a police complaint and have it on file and perhaps assist in catching the real culprits?

Quote from: zhoutong on July 29, 2012, 02:39:15 AM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 28, 2012, 11:32:01 PM

Because they involved your account in the crime and also, according to you (Zhou Tong) used it for credit card fraud. People file police reports for much, much smaller thefts. Insurance companies have people file reports as a sign of honesty. Lots of reasons to file a report.

Quote from: zhoutong on July 28, 2012, 11:28:16 PM

The hacker didn't steal from me. Why should I file a police report?

The credit card fraud isn't for me. He used someone else card to buy stuff and ship to a freight forwarder. And he entered that email address for the order.

Can you allow me to get the money back from him before reporting to the police? Bitcoinica customers are clearly the real victims here.

Coinoisseur

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Activity: 336

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So you'd rather cross your fingers and hope no authorities uncover your email address and it's contents (subpoena google) than file a police complaint and have it on file and perhaps assist in catching the real culprits?

Quote from: zhoutong on July 29, 2012, 02:39:15 AM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on July 28, 2012, 11:32:01 PM

Because they involved your account in the crime and also, according to you (Zhou Tong) used it for credit card fraud. People file police reports for much, much smaller thefts. Insurance companies have people file reports as a sign of honesty. Lots of reasons to file a report.

Quote from: zhoutong on July 28, 2012, 11:28:16 PM

The hacker didn't steal from me. Why should I file a police report?

The credit card fraud isn't for me. He used someone else card to buy stuff and ship to a freight forwarder. And he entered that email address for the order.

zhoutong

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Quote from: mc_lovin on July 29, 2012, 01:47:54 AM

Quote from: zhoutong on July 28, 2012, 11:14:14 PM

Quote from: vampire on July 28, 2012, 11:08:56 PM

This is why I don't believe Zhou.

Zhou claimed:

That his business associate stole his password when he signed up on a website.
That his business associate had access to the source code prior to anyone else.
That his business associate knew who was Chris Heaslip!
That his business associate quickly decides to return funds when confronted!

Now replace the business associate with Zhou.. And it makes a lot of sense.

He had access to the email, which he havent used in a while.
Knew the password for lastpass and the source code.
Knew all the people in bitcoinica.
And of course had access to the stolen funds.

This is the evidence just from Zhou, not aurumxchange.

That email was protected with my weakest password that I reused everywhere and even shared with some other people. I didn't have to protect that email at all because it's meant to be semi-sockpuppet anyway.

He had access to source code after genjix released it.

Chris Heaslip's Mt. Gox account was stored alongside Wendon's in the LastPass. Obviously he didn't know which one had more money so he logged in to both.

I know a lot of his personal information (especially his and his wife's bank accounts and address), and I threatened to report to police if he didn't agree to refund.

I don't know where you got all the misleading information from.

You shared the password with other people? To an account that had the ability to withdrawal the loot? Doesn't that sound like something you should have mentioned to your loyal customers and the people who bought this business from you? A "sockpuppet" account???

I created that throwaway account to test a vulnerability. I have at most 10 BTC in that account.

It's my personal freedom to create an account with reused password right? And did I harm anyone?

Chen Jianhai could simply register another email and steal all the money. And we wouldn't proceed with investigation like today. Thank god he used my account and left all the evidence there, otherwise Bitcoinica users will never see the money again!

Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack - page 38. (Read 136162 times)