Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack - page 42. (Read 136162 times)
Well as super convenient as all this is, good, I hope the majority of you get your money back. Hopefully though, should that happen, you don't all just let it go. Someone needs to go down for this.
If Patrick Murck is willing to accept the funds in trust without the explicit approval of Bitcoinica, then the transfer should happen as soon as possible.
If he is willing to accept the funds without the strict approval of Bitcoinica, he should be fired immediately and never allowed to act as an attorney ever again. 
In a recent email, Zhou has promised to return 20,000 BTC and $140,000 USD from the hacker.
Myself, Tihan Seale and several other creditors have asked that Zhou immediately transfer the funds to Patrick Murck.
Patrick Murck is the staff attorney for Bitinstant.com and coinlabs.com
He will hold the funds until a proper method to refund them to the proper owners can be determined.
Zhou initially was asking for the Intersango team of:
Patrick Strateman
Amir Taki
Donald Norman
to verify that they are ok with Patrick Murck holding the funds until they can be refunded to the correct owners.
I think all the creditors can agree that we would rather have the Bitinstant / Coinlabs attorney hold the funds rather than whoever has them now.
Patrick Strateman has blocked me on Skype, and does not reply to my emails.
Donald and Amir have been out of touch for weeks.
Patrick Strateman, Amir, and Donald, for the good of the Bitcoin community tell Zhou to release the funds to Patrick Murck NOW!
This way there will be no doubt whatsoever about what should be done with the funds today.
Myself, Tihan Seale and several other creditors have asked that Zhou immediately transfer the funds to Patrick Murck.
Patrick Murck is the staff attorney for Bitinstant.com and coinlabs.com
He will hold the funds until a proper method to refund them to the proper owners can be determined.
Zhou initially was asking for the Intersango team of:
Patrick Strateman
Amir Taki
Donald Norman
to verify that they are ok with Patrick Murck holding the funds until they can be refunded to the correct owners.
I think all the creditors can agree that we would rather have the Bitinstant / Coinlabs attorney hold the funds rather than whoever has them now.
Patrick Strateman has blocked me on Skype, and does not reply to my emails.
Donald and Amir have been out of touch for weeks.
Patrick Strateman, Amir, and Donald, for the good of the Bitcoin community tell Zhou to release the funds to Patrick Murck NOW!
This way there will be no doubt whatsoever about what should be done with the funds today.
I am definitely OK with that. I trust Charlie and team.
I agree with this, and will get on this ASAP
The funds will be transferred into a trust bank account while the legal stuff is sorted.
Will update the community soon.
-Charlie
If Patrick Murck is willing to accept the funds in trust without the explicit approval of Bitcoinica, then the transfer should happen as soon as possible.
If he is willing to accept the funds without the strict approval of Bitcoinica, he should be fired immediately and never allowed to act as an attorney ever again.Yes, I don't think any attorney would accept almost half a million dollars because someone on skype told him to
Proper measures will be taken of course.
In a recent email, Zhou has promised to return 20,000 BTC and $140,000 USD from the hacker.
Myself, Tihan Seale and several other creditors have asked that Zhou immediately transfer the funds to Patrick Murck.
Patrick Murck is the staff attorney for Bitinstant.com and coinlabs.com
He will hold the funds until a proper method to refund them to the proper owners can be determined.
Myself, Tihan Seale and several other creditors have asked that Zhou immediately transfer the funds to Patrick Murck.
Patrick Murck is the staff attorney for Bitinstant.com and coinlabs.com
He will hold the funds until a proper method to refund them to the proper owners can be determined.
While Bitcoinica's approval would be nice, I doubt it's actually needed strictly speaking - no-one's likely to get into any trouble for having the funds transferred into trust while their fate is decided. Waiting for Patrick, Amir and Donald to agree on something merely delays the process of the funds being recovered and placed in safe-keeping. If Patrick Murck is willing to accept the funds in trust without the explicit approval of Bitcoinica, then the transfer should happen as soon as possible.
In a recent email, Zhou has promised to return 20,000 BTC and $140,000 USD from the hacker.
Myself, Tihan Seale and several other creditors have asked that Zhou immediately transfer the funds to Patrick Murck.
Patrick Murck is an experienced attorney who has done work for Bitinstant.com and coinlabs.com
He will hold the funds until a proper method to refund them to the proper owners can be determined.
Zhou initially was asking for the Intersango team of:
Patrick Strateman
Amir Taki
Donald Norman
to verify that they are ok with Patrick Murck holding the funds until they can be refunded to the correct owners.
I think all the creditors can agree that we would rather have the Bitinstant / Coinlabs attorney hold the funds rather than whoever has them now.
Patrick Strateman has blocked me on Skype, and does not reply to my emails.
Donald and Amir have been out of touch for weeks.
Patrick Strateman, Amir, and Donald, for the good of the Bitcoin community tell Zhou to release the funds to Patrick Murck NOW!
This way there will be no doubt whatsoever about what should be done with the funds today.
Myself, Tihan Seale and several other creditors have asked that Zhou immediately transfer the funds to Patrick Murck.
Patrick Murck is an experienced attorney who has done work for Bitinstant.com and coinlabs.com
He will hold the funds until a proper method to refund them to the proper owners can be determined.
Zhou initially was asking for the Intersango team of:
Patrick Strateman
Amir Taki
Donald Norman
to verify that they are ok with Patrick Murck holding the funds until they can be refunded to the correct owners.
I think all the creditors can agree that we would rather have the Bitinstant / Coinlabs attorney hold the funds rather than whoever has them now.
Patrick Strateman has blocked me on Skype, and does not reply to my emails.
Donald and Amir have been out of touch for weeks.
Patrick Strateman, Amir, and Donald, for the good of the Bitcoin community tell Zhou to release the funds to Patrick Murck NOW!
This way there will be no doubt whatsoever about what should be done with the funds today.
So, "Chen", from China, breaking into an Australian companies computers, or accessing Japanese computers, is not committing any "economic crime" when stealing money or credit card data from them.
In what country was the Bitcoinica server hosted?
In what country was the Bitcoinica server hosted?
As I understand the story, Chen was responsible for the MtGox breach and for attempting to launder funds through AurumXchange and Liberty Reserve. Those would the original jurisdictions for starting investigations, but the final jurisdiction would depend a great deal on what was discovered during the investigation and which nation was willing to accept jurisdiction.
"Where" a computer crime occurred can be a complex issue to decide. There's a high Court precedent here in Australia which means that it's not restricted to the location of a server.
So, "Chen", from China, breaking into an Australian companies computers, or accessing Japanese computers, is not committing any "economic crime" when stealing money or credit card data from them.
In what country was the Bitcoinica server hosted?
In what country was the Bitcoinica server hosted?
I know why Zhou tong may be worried about an investigation.
----
In China, serious cases of corruption are punished by the death penalty.
During the 1980s, "economic crimes" such as bribery, drug-trafficking, and embezzlement were added to the legal code.
Capital punishment in China can be imposed on crimes against national symbols and treasures, such as theft of cultural relics.
Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate offenses, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted fraud.
A form of execution called Ling Chi (slow slicing), or death by/of a thousand cuts, was used in China until its abolition in 1905.
Current methods of capitol punishment in China are lethal injection and shooting. Lethal injection is more commonly used for "economic crimes".
Execution vans are unique to China, however.
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
----
In China, serious cases of corruption are punished by the death penalty.
During the 1980s, "economic crimes" such as bribery, drug-trafficking, and embezzlement were added to the legal code.
Capital punishment in China can be imposed on crimes against national symbols and treasures, such as theft of cultural relics.
Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate offenses, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted fraud.
A form of execution called Ling Chi (slow slicing), or death by/of a thousand cuts, was used in China until its abolition in 1905.
Current methods of capitol punishment in China are lethal injection and shooting. Lethal injection is more commonly used for "economic crimes".
Execution vans are unique to China, however.
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
The thing is that jurisdiction isn't determined by the nationality of the person who committed the crime but by where the crime took place. Mr relic collector may have to worry about having broken Chinese law, but I'm not seeing what jurisdiction China would have over Zhou if he was found to be involved in the MtGox breach or the laundering of funds from that breach.
Also, Australia will not extradite in cases where the death penalty or other human rights abuses are on the table.
And yeah, if you wanted to start an investigation from the Australian end, you'd call Victoria Police.
The hack happened during my holiday in Singapore, how?
I know why Zhou tong may be worried about an investigation.
----
In China, serious cases of corruption are punished by the death penalty.
During the 1980s, "economic crimes" such as bribery, drug-trafficking, and embezzlement were added to the legal code.
Capital punishment in China can be imposed on crimes against national symbols and treasures, such as theft of cultural relics.
Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate offenses, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted fraud.
A form of execution called Ling Chi (slow slicing), or death by/of a thousand cuts, was used in China until its abolition in 1905.
Current methods of capitol punishment in China are lethal injection and shooting. Lethal injection is more commonly used for "economic crimes".
Execution vans are unique to China, however.
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
----
In China, serious cases of corruption are punished by the death penalty.
During the 1980s, "economic crimes" such as bribery, drug-trafficking, and embezzlement were added to the legal code.
Capital punishment in China can be imposed on crimes against national symbols and treasures, such as theft of cultural relics.
Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate offenses, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted fraud.
A form of execution called Ling Chi (slow slicing), or death by/of a thousand cuts, was used in China until its abolition in 1905.
Current methods of capitol punishment in China are lethal injection and shooting. Lethal injection is more commonly used for "economic crimes".
Execution vans are unique to China, however.
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
The thing is that jurisdiction isn't determined by the nationality of the person who committed the crime but by where the crime took place. Mr relic collector may have to worry about having broken Chinese law, but I'm not seeing what jurisdiction China would have over Zhou if he was found to be involved in the MtGox breach or the laundering of funds from that breach.
Also, Australia will not extradite in cases where the death penalty or other human rights abuses are on the table.
And yeah, if you wanted to start an investigation from the Australian end, you'd call Victoria Police.
Yes, I of course can do this, if I ever wanted to.
My advice was given to the community, and those who want to see their money again.
If you don't care about Bitcoinica's claim process anymore and just want to watch the drama, then your advice is valid.
My advice was given to the community, and those who want to see their money again.
If you don't care about Bitcoinica's claim process anymore and just want to watch the drama, then your advice is valid.
especially in a totalitarian system like China.
Zhou Tong is in Australia.
Seeking assistance from a cybercrime division in Australia, I imagine is just as easy as calling the local police, and explaining that you need a cybercrime division to help you. They will guide you through the process.
I know why Zhou tong may be worried about an investigation.
----
In China, serious cases of corruption are punished by the death penalty.
During the 1980s, "economic crimes" such as bribery, drug-trafficking, and embezzlement were added to the legal code.
Capital punishment in China can be imposed on crimes against national symbols and treasures, such as theft of cultural relics.
Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate offenses, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted fraud.
A form of execution called Ling Chi (slow slicing), or death by/of a thousand cuts, was used in China until its abolition in 1905.
Current methods of capitol punishment in China are lethal injection and shooting. Lethal injection is more commonly used for "economic crimes".
Execution vans are unique to China, however.
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
----
In China, serious cases of corruption are punished by the death penalty.
During the 1980s, "economic crimes" such as bribery, drug-trafficking, and embezzlement were added to the legal code.
Capital punishment in China can be imposed on crimes against national symbols and treasures, such as theft of cultural relics.
Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate offenses, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted fraud.
A form of execution called Ling Chi (slow slicing), or death by/of a thousand cuts, was used in China until its abolition in 1905.
Current methods of capitol punishment in China are lethal injection and shooting. Lethal injection is more commonly used for "economic crimes".
Execution vans are unique to China, however.
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
You don't "call Interpol". Interpol facilitates co-operation between law enforcement agencies from different countries. People are really over-complicating this.
Indeed, it looks like they don't take crime report directly: http://www.interpol.int/Contact-INTERPOLBut somehow if you can get your case known by them, the local police will face much more pressure, especially in a totalitarian system like China.
I sense it troubling that Bitcoinica has not made attempt to recover the funds, according to Zhou.
How sound is the company atm? how much resolution do they have to keep the door open and return all funds to customers? what's holding them back?
Is there any rancor left between Zhou and Bitcoinica, as result of the previous hacking fiasco?
Zhou sold a business (defective, imo) for big bucks to the new owner(s), who is left holding the bag.
Zhou has the money, he has/had the reputation, he is a perfect target to get money from.
Call the Interpol.
(Maybe Libertarianism doesn't work after all
)
How sound is the company atm? how much resolution do they have to keep the door open and return all funds to customers? what's holding them back?
Is there any rancor left between Zhou and Bitcoinica, as result of the previous hacking fiasco?
Zhou sold a business (defective, imo) for big bucks to the new owner(s), who is left holding the bag.
Zhou has the money, he has/had the reputation, he is a perfect target to get money from.
Call the Interpol.
(Maybe Libertarianism doesn't work after all
)You don't "call Interpol". Interpol facilitates co-operation between law enforcement agencies from different countries. People are really over-complicating this.
I sense it troubling that Bitcoinica has not made attempt to recover the funds, according to Zhou.
How sound is the company atm? how much resolution do they have to keep the door open and return all funds to customers? what's holding them back?
Is there any rancor left between Zhou and Bitcoinica, as result of the previous hacking fiasco?
Zhou sold a business (defective, imo) for big bucks to the new owner(s), who is left holding the bag.
Zhou has the money, he has/had the reputation, he is a perfect target to get money from.
Call the Interpol.
(Maybe Libertarianism doesn't work after all )
+1 CALL THE COPS NOW How sound is the company atm? how much resolution do they have to keep the door open and return all funds to customers? what's holding them back?
Is there any rancor left between Zhou and Bitcoinica, as result of the previous hacking fiasco?
Zhou sold a business (defective, imo) for big bucks to the new owner(s), who is left holding the bag.
Zhou has the money, he has/had the reputation, he is a perfect target to get money from.
Call the Interpol.
(Maybe Libertarianism doesn't work after all
)
I sense it troubling that Bitcoinica has not made attempt to recover the funds, according to Zhou.
How sound is the company atm? how much resolution do they have to keep the door open and return all funds to customers? what's holding them back?
Is there any rancor left between Zhou and Bitcoinica, as result of the previous hacking fiasco?
Zhou sold a business (defective, imo) for big bucks to the new owner(s), who is left holding the bag.
Zhou has the money, he has/had the reputation, he is a perfect target to get money from.
Call the Interpol.
(Maybe Libertarianism doesn't work after all )
How sound is the company atm? how much resolution do they have to keep the door open and return all funds to customers? what's holding them back?
Is there any rancor left between Zhou and Bitcoinica, as result of the previous hacking fiasco?
Zhou sold a business (defective, imo) for big bucks to the new owner(s), who is left holding the bag.
Zhou has the money, he has/had the reputation, he is a perfect target to get money from.
Call the Interpol.
(Maybe Libertarianism doesn't work after all
)They should at least make attempt to recover the funds, or start liquidation process, or start police investigation.
Given that your credentials were used without your permission in the money laundering attempt and you believe this same person has committed fraud using your credit card account, you can also start a police investigation. Pointing out that Bitcoinica should be taking certain actions doesn't deflect from the fact that there are also actions which you could be taking. By not taking those actions, you're coming perilously close to being an accessory after the fact.
You literally can't exonerate yourself without a law enforcement investigation of the connections between the MtGox breach and your accounts.
Yes, I of course can do this, if I ever wanted to.
My advice was given to the community, and those who want to see their money again.
If you don't care about Bitcoinica's claim process anymore and just want to watch the drama, then your advice is valid.
so what's the status on the recovery from your "friend"?
+also you didn't supply further information on the other friend for whom you did these large LR-Deals as you promised in your statement
+I am also missing a statement for these allegations of personal LR-Deals in China in your name
Yes, I of course can do this, if I ever wanted to.
My advice was given to the community, and those who want to see their money again.
If you don't care about Bitcoinica's claim process anymore and just want to watch the drama, then your advice is valid.
My advice was given to the community, and those who want to see their money again.
If you don't care about Bitcoinica's claim process anymore and just want to watch the drama, then your advice is valid.
They should at least make attempt to recover the funds, or start liquidation process, or start police investigation.
Given that your credentials were used without your permission in the money laundering attempt and you believe this same person has committed fraud using your credit card account, you can also start a police investigation. Pointing out that Bitcoinica should be taking certain actions doesn't deflect from the fact that there are also actions which you could be taking. By not taking those actions, you're coming perilously close to being an accessory after the fact.
You literally can't exonerate yourself without a law enforcement investigation of the connections between the MtGox breach and your accounts.
Yes, I of course can do this, if I ever wanted to.
My advice was given to the community, and those who want to see their money again.
If you don't care about Bitcoinica's claim process anymore and just want to watch the drama, then your advice is valid.
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