Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1955. (Read 3049501 times)
Back to the topic of KNC. Did they ever say how many chips they have on order? Wondering how they are still selling miners on their website saying shipping in september.
What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.
Running your chips below their maximum stable clock is a very different thing from completely disabling functional engines. One may be an optimal trade-off with power consumption and chip lifetime; the other simply wastes potential.
And why I'm baffled, since BFL has obviously not binned them correctly.
BFL has been selling their round of loose chips at different prices based on the bin (A/B/C/D). If they are being too aggressive with their binning, they are actually getting paid less than they could be. That seems very un-BFL-like. Curious.
What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.
Running your chips below their maximum stable clock is a very different thing from completely disabling functional engines. One may be an optimal trade-off with power consumption and chip lifetime; the other simply wastes potential.
What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.
Running your chips below their maximum stable clock is a very different thing from completely disabling functional engines. One may be an optimal trade-off with power consumption and chip lifetime; the other simply wastes potential.
What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.
I assure you defects are quite real. I looked at one today under a scanning electron microscope. I think it winked at me. Or maybe that was the astigmatism...
Clearly, BFL is just as incompetent at binning their chips as they are at making deadlines.
The foundry is being too aggressive with the chip binning, then. They're probably defect mapping by using a tool like one of these:
http://www.kla-tencor.com/front-end-defect-inspection/puma-family.html
Any die with a defect gets knocked down a bin, and the corresponding engine gets disabled. Two defects, another bin... and so on. That's going to be overly aggressive, since not all of those defects will be killer.
What BFL SHOULD be doing is burning the chips in, and binning them based on performance. Who knows why they're not.
Obviously, a 90nm defect in a 28nm process would be a lot more devastating than it would be in a 65nm chip, so a higher proportion of the defects might prove to be killer. I always thought 28nm was an odd choice... why not something a little more mature, like 45nm? They'd have saved millions on the mask set alone.
I assure you defects are quite real. I looked at one today under a scanning electron microscope. I think it winked at me. Or maybe that was the astigmatism...
Clearly, BFL is just as incompetent at binning their chips as they are at making deadlines.
Certainly BFL has encountered issues with killer defects on their chips. Know what they do? They disable the regions with defects and bin them. Suddenly there's not much correlation between yield and die size anymore.
(Intel does this also, and their chips are *much, much* more complex. Then again, if you ever had to deal with those fuckers, you'd understand how they get their defect concentrations down. "Our spec is zero defects, hurr hurr hurr... Your recipe creates 2 defects per wafer..."
Sorry, sorta got an axe to grind with those guys)
Anyway, here's to hoping that KNC is at least as competent as BFL.
I assure you defects are quite real. I looked at one today under a scanning electron microscope. I think it winked at me. Or maybe that was the astigmatism...
Clearly, BFL is just as incompetent at binning their chips as they are at making deadlines.
Certainly BFL has encountered issues with killer defects on their chips. Know what they do? They disable the regions with defects and bin them. Suddenly there's not much correlation between yield and die size anymore.
(Intel does this also, and their chips are *much, much* more complex. Then again, if you ever had to deal with those fuckers, you'd understand how they get their defect concentrations down. "Our spec is zero defects, hurr hurr hurr... Your recipe creates 2 defects per wafer..."
Sorry, sorta got an axe to grind with those guys)
Anyway, here's to hoping that KNC is at least as competent as BFL.
If you have ever seen a GPU die, then you know the shaders constitute the bulk of the chip. > 80% of it.
Similar logic exists with ASICs, and based upon die shots of Avalon, BFL, and Bitfury processors, I would put the non-SHA256 components at 5% or so in total area.
How do you think different product tiers in GPUs exist? 7830 / 7850 / 7870 etc. The are ALL the same die, just the lower-end products have various shaders turned off in post-processing because there are defects in there. Even with this post-processing, the simple laws of IC manufacturing apply - bigger dies = BAD for yields.
So what that shaders consist of 80% of the area?Similar logic exists with ASICs, and based upon die shots of Avalon, BFL, and Bitfury processors, I would put the non-SHA256 components at 5% or so in total area.
How do you think different product tiers in GPUs exist? 7830 / 7850 / 7870 etc. The are ALL the same die, just the lower-end products have various shaders turned off in post-processing because there are defects in there. Even with this post-processing, the simple laws of IC manufacturing apply - bigger dies = BAD for yields.
They are still on the one single clock tree and the one single JTAG chain.
Please stop digging yourself deeper. You've made a methodological mistake that invalidates your results. Just admit it to yourself.
I have historical evidence here to back this up. BFL has run into these problems as well (even if you hate BFL for their business practices, realize they didn't manufacture the chip themselves).
It's why you see the wide range in GH/s out of their single chips. It is also why you will note that since they started selling their chips, they have different bins at different prices. We don't know what their yield is, but they have a substantial number of lower-grade chips that cannot hit design targets due to chip defects.
Certainly BFL has encountered issues with killer defects on their chips. Know what they do? They disable the regions with defects and bin them. Suddenly there's not much correlation between yield and die size anymore.
(Intel does this also, and their chips are *much, much* more complex. Then again, if you ever had to deal with those fuckers, you'd understand how they get their defect concentrations down. "Our spec is zero defects, hurr hurr hurr... Your recipe creates 2 defects per wafer..."
Sorry, sorta got an axe to grind with those guys)
Anyway, here's to hoping that KNC is at least as competent as BFL.
Dryer outlets in North America are just two 15 amp circuits with one neutral. 180 degrees out of phase so you can still run 120 volt items with the same wiring as if you were running them 240v. Perfect for running 4 jupiters.
Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
My favourite questions asked in electrical engineering at university was by a lecturer:
"So how many of you have been electrocuted?"
(lots of hands went up)
"How many of you didn't survive?"
Germany has a standard voltage of 230V, "Starkstrom" has up to 1000V and is used by a dryer outlet. 600V can effectively reduce the resistance of the skin and increase lethality by a lot. And most people who died did not even have that high voltage...
You do of course realise that the higher voltage actually means you are less likely to die from electrocution right?
Cos the current is thus lower.
It's the current that kills you, not the voltage.
... I also remember my older brother sticking a screw driver in a power point when we were very young ... he's now >50
Yes electricity can kill you, so can a chainsaw, driving on the road, holding your breath under water, catching an aeroplane ...
You really think bitpop is a complete idiot? (I don't) Coz that's what's implied by the "DON'T DO IT" silliness.
Sounds as silly as a Starbucks hot cup warning ...
The lethality of an electric shock is dependent on several variables:
Current. The higher the current, the more likely it is lethal. Since current is proportional to voltage when resistance is fixed (ohm's law), high voltage is an indirect risk for producing higher currents.
Duration. The longer the duration, the more likely it is lethal—safety switches may limit time of current flow
Pathway. If current flows through the heart muscle, it is more likely to be lethal.
High voltage (over about 600 volts). In addition to greater current flow, high voltage may cause dielectric breakdown at the skin, thus lowering skin resistance and allowing further increased current flow.
and that is from wikipedia, for your reading pleasure regarding higher voltage -> lower current.
Stromweg Accidents whole Acc. deadly rel. Verteilung(insgesamt) rel. Verteilung(tödlich) Lethality
Hand-Hand 2891 82 77,3 % 48,5% 2 ,84 %
Hand-Fuß 349 19 9,2 % 11,2 % 5,44 %
Hand-Füße 294 18 7,7 % 10,7 % 6,12 %
Hände-Füße 106 20 2,8 % 11,8 % 18,67 %
Verkürzte Stromwege Oberkörper
(wie Hand-Brust, oder Brust-Rücken)
108 30 3,0 % 17,8 % 27,78 %
Insgesamt 3748 169 100 % 100 % 4,51 %
I am too lazy to translate all of it, but you should get the gist... DON'T try to play with currents if you have no practical knowledge of the matter...
Dryer Outlets?
? 
? 
Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
most dryer outlets are 240 V. which is ideally what you want. i installed a 240 V receptacle precisely for the avalons and they're running great.
Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
My favourite questions asked in electrical engineering at university was by a lecturer:
"So how many of you have been electrocuted?"
(lots of hands went up)
"How many of you didn't survive?"
Germany has a standard voltage of 230V, "Starkstrom" has up to 1000V and is used by a dryer outlet. 600V can effectively reduce the resistance of the skin and increase lethality by a lot. And most people who died did not even have that high voltage...
You do of course realise that the higher voltage actually means you are less likely to die from electrocution right?
Cos the current is thus lower.
It's the current that kills you, not the voltage.
... I also remember my older brother sticking a screw driver in a power point when we were very young ... he's now >50
Yes electricity can kill you, so can a chainsaw, driving on the road, holding your breath under water, catching an aeroplane ...
You really think bitpop is a complete idiot? (I don't) Coz that's what's implied by the "DON'T DO IT" silliness.
Sounds as silly as a Starbucks hot cup warning ...
Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
My favourite questions asked in electrical engineering at university was by a lecturer:
"So how many of you have been electrocuted?"
(lots of hands went up)
"How many of you didn't survive?"
Germany has a standard voltage of 230V, "Starkstrom" has up to 1000V and is used by a dryer outlet. 600V can effectively reduce the resistance of the skin and increase lethality by a lot. And most people who died did not even have that high voltage...
Damn im going to be sticking these all around the house then. Especially the kitchen, the best amps.
Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
My favourite questions asked in electrical engineering at university was by a lecturer:
"So how many of you have been electrocuted?"
(lots of hands went up)
"How many of you didn't survive?"
Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
still, call an electrician, it's not that expensive and you live afterwards... 
Can someone show me how to use my dryer outlet? I can't find a psu cable.
Is that a joke? If you are not an electrician, don't do that yourself. That is a high voltage output, not something for amateurs to work on...Don't do it. It is in fact low voltage (till 1000V AC / 1500V DC) but DON'T DO IT. You'll risk your life if something goes wrong. Or you will do a short, etc..
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