Tennis League All Thread - page 306.

babygun

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Quote from: Daniel91 on February 06, 2022, 04:33:22 AM

I also came across the news that this tournament in Argentina is a farewell for Del Potro and that it will be the last tournament of his career.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60273217

Realistically, probably similar news, about the end of a great career, we can expect for Murray soon.
It is a pity that in this way, due to injuries, we lose two great tennis players who played together with the big three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, and still achieved great tennis results.
Who knows where Murray and Del Potro would be now if only the injuries hadn't stopped them.

Yeah I also read it, too bad! Del Potro was a top player and I always liked to watch him. He is only 33 but his body has decided it's over. Chances do exist that Murray will also retire soon, but on the other hand Murray just loves the game and can still play on a decent level.

aoluain

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^
Definitely both would have remained a challenge to the top 3 and would have
won more grand slams and deprived Federer, Nadal and Djokovic some of the
20, 21 and 20 slams they have now. It would be a different scene now.

Dominic Thiem coming back this year can offer a threat to Nadal, Medvedev,
Djokovic, Zverev and Tsitsipas. Dominic is a quality player and still has a lot to offer.

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Quote from: aoluain on February 06, 2022, 03:49:18 AM

^
Absolutely, its all good to see players coming back into competition, Andy Murray
is a current example of being out for an extended period, having major surgery and
still able to compete at a reasonable level. Juan Martin del Potro was indeed a great player
but I dont think he will be as potent as before, time and surgery take their toll.

I saw this headline from Eurosport from a few hours ago

Quote from: https://www.eurosport.co.uk/tennis/juan-martin-del-potro-announces-retirement-from-professional-tennis-after-argentina-open_sto8758145/story.shtml

"Perhaps it is more a farewell than a return"

I also came across the news that this tournament in Argentina is a farewell for Del Potro and that it will be the last tournament of his career.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60273217

Realistically, probably similar news, about the end of a great career, we can expect for Murray soon.
It is a pity that in this way, due to injuries, we lose two great tennis players who played together with the big three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, and still achieved great tennis results.
Who knows where Murray and Del Potro would be now if only the injuries hadn't stopped them.

aoluain

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^
Absolutely, its all good to see players coming back into competition, Andy Murray
is a current example of being out for an extended period, having major surgery and
still able to compete at a reasonable level. Juan Martin del Potro was indeed a great player
but I dont think he will be as potent as before, time and surgery take their toll.

I saw this headline from Eurosport from a few hours ago

Quote from: https://www.eurosport.co.uk/tennis/juan-martin-del-potro-announces-retirement-from-professional-tennis-after-argentina-open_sto8758145/story.shtml

"Perhaps it is more a farewell than a return"

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Quote from: mv1986 on February 05, 2022, 10:42:07 PM

Quote from: Jating on February 05, 2022, 10:29:36 AM

Of course, I still remember Del Potro, he has the distinction of being the first tennis player to defeat both Nadal and Federer at the same tournament - 2009 US grand slam. Nadal on semis and then Federer on finals. He has achieved so much in tennis that he was also the only one outside of the big 3 to win a tournament at least.

Interesting to see how Peng Shuai is really doing at this point. And it's good that Thomas Bach is extending efforts to make sure she is doing well.

This is a bad ending not only because he was a great tennis player, but also because he was a great sportsman in general. Much like Rafael Nadal or Federer, never really complains, always tries to comeback and never seeks to abuse excuses for his losses no matter what the reason was. Damn he missed so many years as a pro player because of his wrist and now his knee. Hopefully he has a great tournament in Buenos Aires!

Correct, one of the players who withstand the onslaught on the big 3 or big 4 during their prime years. He has won tournaments against them and then lost some.

But I guess the body can only take that much, and probably genetics as well play a big role for players to to be able to remain and stay healthy years after years. Unfortunately, he is not one of them, so the wear and tear after his prime. But hey, who can't stop him from making a comeback?

mv1986

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Quote from: Jating on February 05, 2022, 10:29:36 AM

Of course, I still remember Del Potro, he has the distinction of being the first tennis player to defeat both Nadal and Federer at the same tournament - 2009 US grand slam. Nadal on semis and then Federer on finals. He has achieved so much in tennis that he was also the only one outside of the big 3 to win a tournament at least.

Interesting to see how Peng Shuai is really doing at this point. And it's good that Thomas Bach is extending efforts to make sure she is doing well.

This is a bad ending not only because he was a great tennis player, but also because he was a great sportsman in general. Much like Rafael Nadal or Federer, never really complains, always tries to comeback and never seeks to abuse excuses for his losses no matter what the reason was. Damn he missed so many years as a pro player because of his wrist and now his knee. Hopefully he has a great tournament in Buenos Aires!

Jating

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Of course, I still remember Del Potro, he has the distinction of being the first tennis player to defeat both Nadal and Federer at the same tournament - 2009 US grand slam. Nadal on semis and then Federer on finals. He has achieved so much in tennis that he was also the only one outside of the big 3 to win a tournament at least.

Interesting to see how Peng Shuai is really doing at this point. And it's good that Thomas Bach is extending efforts to make sure she is doing well.

Daniel91

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OK, let’s get back to the tennis news Grin

''Former US Open champion Juan Martin del Potro will make his comeback at next month's Argentina Open, having last played competitively in June 2019.''
Who remembers this tennis player? When he was at his peak, he was a very tough opponent for all top tennis players, beating Djokovic at the Olympics etc.
He is now returning after a very long break due to injury and will play in a domestic tournament in Argentina.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60208439

''Former US Open champion Dominic Thiem is set to return to court next month at the Indian Wells Masters.''
Another tennis player is returning after a long break due to injury. Do you think he could continue to play at the old level and in competition with Medvedev, Zverev, Nadal .. win the GS tournament again?
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60244785

Finally, do you remember the story of a Chinese tennis player who disappeared from public after accusing a Chinese politician of raping her?
''
International Olympic Committee president Thomas Bach will meet Chinese tennis player Peng Shuai to "convince us in person of her wellbeing and state of mind".''

Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60241026

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Quote from: Trofo on February 03, 2022, 05:38:44 AM

~sinip
Maybe it is not modern fay of thinking but you can't compare grand slam titles between WTA and ATP. Guys are playing grueling BO5 matches while girls still play BO3. I am all for equality but then let's make them play by the same rules and see who will be left standing. Without looking at the numbers I am quite sure Barty total time on court this year in AO has been less then Nadal time on court in just semi final and final.

yeah, and since prizes are the same (tennis is probably the only sport where women and men are paid equally), Nadal is paid a lot less per hour spent on the court

nevertheless, if they would equalize B03 would be played in men tennis as well, and that is probably the next step, when Nadal and Djokovic are out, have to say that I support that, since watching five hours of tennis is really not my thing, and especially could not see me on a stadium, sitting for five hours, while they play (would probably eaten a extra-super-sized pack of popcorn's and got sick until fifth set Roll Eyes

)

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Quote from: RealMalatesta on February 03, 2022, 03:29:54 PM

If you get the greatest coach whose ever lived, enough money to survive you and your family for 20 years until you are professionally making a ton, and you could spend 15 hours a day training (breaks included of course) then you will be like Nadal too. Obviously hard work doesn't mean everything, it is required, you have to work harder than everyone else, but money and early education until you are ready matters a lot as well.

Nah, no way. Take your random clumsy guy from gym class and try to make him an athlete - no way in hell he makes the top 100 with all the best coaches in the world.
Hard work is really important - but for it to really matter you have to be extraordinarily talented as well.

You will always find some exceptions of course (for example Karlović in tennis or Robertson in football) but the general rule is that talent is a prerequisite for success. Then it depends on hard work later.

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Quote from: Minor Miner on February 03, 2022, 05:26:40 AM

Players like Nadal or Federer or Djokovic have some inborn talents in them which gives them a headstart in their career, you know.

But other players like Medvedev or Zverev don't have that, they have to get better over time by practicing a lot.
Yes, Nadal and Federer were far better than Medvedev at his age but I think that it has something a bit related to god-gift which gave them the headstart they needed to come to a legendary position they are in right now.

I do not believe this, I do not really believe that players are born with talents. Obviously your body matters, like in basketball you can't be some 170cm tall 100kg person who could be a great basketball player, same goes with tennis, your lateral movement matters and some of that is from your birth, but it is not really THAT much difference. What matters is how much you practice and how great of a practice you are getting.

If you get the greatest coach whose ever lived, enough money to survive you and your family for 20 years until you are professionally making a ton, and you could spend 15 hours a day training (breaks included of course) then you will be like Nadal too. Obviously hard work doesn't mean everything, it is required, you have to work harder than everyone else, but money and early education until you are ready matters a lot as well.

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Quote from: Trofo on February 03, 2022, 12:27:40 PM

Are women in cricket making the same money from tournaments as men? I really doubt it. They are making exactly the same in tennis from grand slam rewards so I say give them same rules then. It should be something they want as well since best of 5 is what makes grand slams special and they will never be treated the same in the eyes of sponsors and most supporters until they do.

In soccer and handball, women are playing on same fields with same rules and same game lengths.

Yes, you are right that they are not getting paid the same amount as in Tennis. But if we compare 90% of the total endurance of the physique of a man to a woman's we will surely get that, that of women would be a bit lower.

Not because they can't match a man but because this is how they were created. Yes, soccer and handball has the same rule sets but since we have different formats for Tennis, like single matches bo3's or bo5's I think the women's getting bo3's are fair. Also, I would not so much oppose bo5's if the players agree.

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Quote from: Jating on February 03, 2022, 06:04:50 AM

Quote from: Minor Miner on February 03, 2022, 05:26:40 AM

Quote from: el kaka22 on February 02, 2022, 03:32:02 PM

The difference between Roddick and Medvedev type of players and other superstars like Nadal and Federer is that by the time they were in Medvedevs age, they were capable of winning a few championships, while others couldn't so obviously it is not easy for these people to feel that at ease.
If you are 17-18 years old and lose to Nadal on the finals then you could still be hopeful about things, but when you are 25+ years old and only have a few finals and no titles then you feel like your chance is slipping out of your hand and that is why you do not want to hear any advice from anyone. If he believed that he still has a lot of chance in the future then he would be fine but lets be honest how many tournaments do you feel like they would be able to win?

Players like Nadal or Federer or Djokovic have some inborn talents in them which gives them a headstart in their career, you know.

Not sure what you mean by in-born, maybe they are a freak of nature but still they have to work harder just to be on top.

Quote from: Minor Miner on February 03, 2022, 05:26:40 AM

But other players like Medvedev or Zverev don't have that, they have to get better over time by practicing a lot.
Yes, Nadal and Federer were far better than Medvedev at his age but I think that it has something a bit related to god-gift which gave them the headstart they needed to come to a legendary position they are in right now.

I do think both Medvedev or Zverev has some in born talents, but they really have to developed it, specially the mental aspects of this game. Your down 2 sets, and maybe thinking how can you overcome and make a comeback? And this what separates the best from the elites like the big 3. They are still focus on winning even if the chances are slim. Unlike others who might easily give up thinking that they don't have a chance anymore.

What I meant by born-in-talent is something like a god gift, a prodigy from his birth.

But, I agree that even if they are god-gifted players, they need to train really hard to keep up with the pace but still, I do think that a slight headstart compared to others goes a long way.
In particular, in football we have Messi-Ronaldo, no one can match them. Same in Tennis, we have these big 3. No one can match them.

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 03, 2022, 12:08:16 PM

Quote from: Trofo on February 03, 2022, 05:38:44 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 03, 2022, 03:25:48 AM

Even though I should not be saying this out loud but I guess women's tennis back then were not as competitive as it is right now and as a result legends like Steffi Graph or Venus Williams won a lot of titles.
But we can also say that there were better players like Sharapova and Serena at the same period but I think Men's Tennis is a bit more competitive.
And I would disagree that Nadal will win another title as I personally think that he has neared his retirement as his pace and endurance have dipped a bit. But I do have to say that he totally deserved this GS.

Maybe it is not modern fay of thinking but you can't compare grand slam titles between WTA and ATP. Guys are playing grueling BO5 matches while girls still play BO3. I am all for equality but then let's make them play by the same rules and see who will be left standing. Without looking at the numbers I am quite sure Barty total time on court this year in AO has been less then Nadal time on court in just semi final and final.

No no, I have to oppose that. I think men playing BO5 and women playing BO3's is fair.

Because physically and biologically, men have more endurance and power compared to women.

For example, in cricket, you know, the boundaries of women's cricket are smaller than that of men. So, I don't think making them play the same amount as men would be a fair trade.

Are women in cricket making the same money from tournaments as men? I really doubt it. They are making exactly the same in tennis from grand slam rewards so I say give them same rules then. It should be something they want as well since best of 5 is what makes grand slams special and they will never be treated the same in the eyes of sponsors and most supporters until they do.

In soccer and handball, women are playing on same fields with same rules and same game lengths.

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Quote from: Trofo on February 03, 2022, 05:38:44 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 03, 2022, 03:25:48 AM

Even though I should not be saying this out loud but I guess women's tennis back then were not as competitive as it is right now and as a result legends like Steffi Graph or Venus Williams won a lot of titles.
But we can also say that there were better players like Sharapova and Serena at the same period but I think Men's Tennis is a bit more competitive.
And I would disagree that Nadal will win another title as I personally think that he has neared his retirement as his pace and endurance have dipped a bit. But I do have to say that he totally deserved this GS.

Maybe it is not modern fay of thinking but you can't compare grand slam titles between WTA and ATP. Guys are playing grueling BO5 matches while girls still play BO3. I am all for equality but then let's make them play by the same rules and see who will be left standing. Without looking at the numbers I am quite sure Barty total time on court this year in AO has been less then Nadal time on court in just semi final and final.

No no, I have to oppose that. I think men playing BO5 and women playing BO3's is fair.

Because physically and biologically, men have more endurance and power compared to women.

For example, in cricket, you know, the boundaries of women's cricket are smaller than that of men. So, I don't think making them play the same amount as men would be a fair trade.

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Quote from: aoluain on February 03, 2022, 11:07:49 AM

^
Yes we have seen this never give up attitude from Nadal this year already,
down 2 sets and still he takes the title, We saw it last year with Djokovic at
RG, down 2 sets to Tsitsipas and snatches the win from him. That is serious
talent, Skill and mental fortitude.

I agree that a lot of the promising younger players need to perfect that combination.

The triad ^∆ of the mens game have those qualities in abundance
and as they have won through the years they have been able to fine tune them
to build on what they have.

There is a big psychological obstacle for younger players to overcome. The big three are all all-time legends, the best and most dominant players that tennis has seen. Yes, their ability to come back from seemingly unwinnable situations is a big part of that... but imagine you are an elite tennis player, just broken into the top 10 in the world, playing Nadal or Djokovic or Federer in a Slam final. You are 2 sets up... and then suddenly they start to fight back, they start to take games away from you. The tension these players must feel just knowing who is across the net from you has to play a part... they are almost guaranteed to fight back, and history shows that if you think you are winning easily against them, it is often an illusion, their status as legends of the game gives them an aura of invincibility, and it can be difficult to fight that.

aoluain

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^
Yes we have seen this never give up attitude from Nadal this year already,
down 2 sets and still he takes the title, We saw it last year with Djokovic at
RG, down 2 sets to Tsitsipas and snatches the win from him. That is serious
talent, Skill and mental fortitude.

I agree that a lot of the promising younger players need to perfect that combination.

The triad ^∆ of the mens game have those qualities in abundance
and as they have won through the years they have been able to fine tune them
to build on what they have.

Jating

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Quote from: Minor Miner on February 03, 2022, 05:26:40 AM

Quote from: el kaka22 on February 02, 2022, 03:32:02 PM

The difference between Roddick and Medvedev type of players and other superstars like Nadal and Federer is that by the time they were in Medvedevs age, they were capable of winning a few championships, while others couldn't so obviously it is not easy for these people to feel that at ease.

If you are 17-18 years old and lose to Nadal on the finals then you could still be hopeful about things, but when you are 25+ years old and only have a few finals and no titles then you feel like your chance is slipping out of your hand and that is why you do not want to hear any advice from anyone. If he believed that he still has a lot of chance in the future then he would be fine but lets be honest how many tournaments do you feel like they would be able to win?

Players like Nadal or Federer or Djokovic have some inborn talents in them which gives them a headstart in their career, you know.

Not sure what you mean by in-born, maybe they are a freak of nature but still they have to work harder just to be on top.

Quote from: Minor Miner on February 03, 2022, 05:26:40 AM

But other players like Medvedev or Zverev don't have that, they have to get better over time by practicing a lot.
Yes, Nadal and Federer were far better than Medvedev at his age but I think that it has something a bit related to god-gift which gave them the headstart they needed to come to a legendary position they are in right now.

I do think both Medvedev or Zverev has some in born talents, but they really have to developed it, specially the mental aspects of this game. Your down 2 sets, and maybe thinking how can you overcome and make a comeback? And this what separates the best from the elites like the big 3. They are still focus on winning even if the chances are slim. Unlike others who might easily give up thinking that they don't have a chance anymore.

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 03, 2022, 03:25:48 AM

Quote from: babygun on February 02, 2022, 07:34:20 PM

Quote from: paxmao on February 02, 2022, 05:08:02 PM

There has been some whirl and noise about the glorification and ascension to heavens of Nadal on his 21st Grand Slam. Apparently, most reporters and many people seem oblivious to the fact that Steffi Graf, Venus Williams and Navratilova all won more grand slams than Nadal and they do not seem to have caught as much wind in the news. I am not inclined to think that a fem grand slam has the same grade of competitiveness than a male one.

Anyway, I would like to place a binary bet: Will Nadal ever win another GS title?

Your need to get your facts straight. Steffi Graf won 22 grand slam titles but Venus Williams and Navratilova but won less titles than Nadal. Only Margaret Court (24) and Serena Williams (23) have won more than Nadal also. Next grand title for Nadal will probably be Roland Garros!

Even though I should not be saying this out loud but I guess women's tennis back then were not as competitive as it is right now and as a result legends like Steffi Graph or Venus Williams won a lot of titles.

But we can also say that there were better players like Sharapova and Serena at the same period but I think Men's Tennis is a bit more competitive.

And I would disagree that Nadal will win another title as I personally think that he has neared his retirement as his pace and endurance have dipped a bit. But I do have to say that he totally deserved this GS.

Maybe it is not modern fay of thinking but you can't compare grand slam titles between WTA and ATP. Guys are playing grueling BO5 matches while girls still play BO3. I am all for equality but then let's make them play by the same rules and see who will be left standing. Without looking at the numbers I am quite sure Barty total time on court this year in AO has been less then Nadal time on court in just semi final and final.

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Quote from: el kaka22 on February 02, 2022, 03:32:02 PM

The difference between Roddick and Medvedev type of players and other superstars like Nadal and Federer is that by the time they were in Medvedevs age, they were capable of winning a few championships, while others couldn't so obviously it is not easy for these people to feel that at ease.

If you are 17-18 years old and lose to Nadal on the finals then you could still be hopeful about things, but when you are 25+ years old and only have a few finals and no titles then you feel like your chance is slipping out of your hand and that is why you do not want to hear any advice from anyone. If he believed that he still has a lot of chance in the future then he would be fine but lets be honest how many tournaments do you feel like they would be able to win?

Players like Nadal or Federer or Djokovic have some inborn talents in them which gives them a headstart in their career, you know.

But other players like Medvedev or Zverev don't have that, they have to get better over time by practicing a lot.
Yes, Nadal and Federer were far better than Medvedev at his age but I think that it has something a bit related to god-gift which gave them the headstart they needed to come to a legendary position they are in right now.

Topic: Tennis League All Thread - page 306. (Read 202212 times)