Tennis League All Thread - page 309.

AndySt

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Quote from: Daniel91 on February 07, 2022, 05:25:41 AM

Quote from: aoluain on February 06, 2022, 07:15:47 AM

^
Definitely both would have remained a challenge to the top 3 and would have won more grand slams and deprived Federer, Nadal and Djokovic some of the 20, 21 and 20 slams they have now. It would be a different scene now. Dominic Thiem coming back this year can offer a threat to Nadal, Medvedev, Djokovic, Zverev and Tsitsipas. Dominic is a quality player and still has a lot to offer.

I totally agree with you. Had Andy Murray and Del Potro been healthy and without so many injuries, surely the big three would have won fewer GSs and other big tournaments. I don't think we should forget Wawrinka here, who was also very successful and managed to win as many as 3 GS tournaments during the tennis reign of the Big Three. It is obvious that the time of Medvedev, Zverev and other young players is slowly coming, and Thiem will probably join them if he will be healthy and ready.

I wouldn't be so sure about Wawrinka's strength because all of his grand slam titles were won against the backdrop of big problems with the great three and Wawrinka can be called an unexpected champion rather than the leader who, thanks to his game, dominated everyone. Although, of course, one can only admire how Wawrinka mentally and physically was going to major tournaments and made the most of the circumstances, and I in no way want to call him an ordinary tennis player. I would like to add about health that of the big three, Rafael Nadal has the most titles lost due to health, while Federer and Djokovic have not had such problems in their entire professional careers.

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Quote from: Daniel91 on February 07, 2022, 05:25:41 AM

Quote from: aoluain on February 06, 2022, 07:15:47 AM

^
Definitely both would have remained a challenge to the top 3 and would have
won more grand slams and deprived Federer, Nadal and Djokovic some of the
20, 21 and 20 slams they have now. It would be a different scene now.

Dominic Thiem coming back this year can offer a threat to Nadal, Medvedev,
Djokovic, Zverev and Tsitsipas. Dominic is a quality player and still has a lot to offer.

I totally agree with you. Had Andy Murray and Del Potro been healthy and without so many injuries, surely the big three would have won fewer GSs and other big tournaments.
I don't think we should forget Wawrinka here, who was also very successful and managed to win as many as 3 GS tournaments during the tennis reign of the Big Three.
It is obvious that the time of Medvedev, Zverev and other young players is slowly coming, and Thiem will probably join them if he will be healthy and ready.

I am really sorry for Del Potro, I believe he is the most injured top player in modern tennis. Even when he played he had big problems with his wrists which resulted with some adjustments to his backhand. Murray at least had a solid part of his career injury free before all the problems with hip threw the spanner in his works. It is really unfortunate when top professional player has big injury problems, especially when he is a great character like Del Potro. I'll try my best to take a look at his match, he deserves that much.

aoluain

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4 bets on for tomorrow at Rotterdam, there are a lot more matches on tomorrow.
I have Norrie, Tsitsipas, Shapovalov and Rublev, again all favoirites and small bets
like 0.05 mBTC.

Norrie @ 1.68 v Humbert (which has actually just started)

Rublev @ 1.17 v Laaksonen

Shapovalov @ 1.18 v Lehecka

Tsitsipas @ 1.17 v Davidovich Fokina

Had two wins today and need to get a few more to top up my pot!

btc_angela

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Quote from: Daniel91 on February 07, 2022, 05:25:41 AM

Quote from: aoluain on February 06, 2022, 07:15:47 AM

^
Definitely both would have remained a challenge to the top 3 and would have
won more grand slams and deprived Federer, Nadal and Djokovic some of the
20, 21 and 20 slams they have now. It would be a different scene now.

Dominic Thiem coming back this year can offer a threat to Nadal, Medvedev,
Djokovic, Zverev and Tsitsipas. Dominic is a quality player and still has a lot to offer.

I totally agree with you. Had Andy Murray and Del Potro been healthy and without so many injuries, surely the big three would have won fewer GSs and other big tournaments.
I don't think we should forget Wawrinka here, who was also very successful and managed to win as many as 3 GS tournaments during the tennis reign of the Big Three.
It is obvious that the time of Medvedev, Zverev and other young players is slowly coming, and Thiem will probably join them if he will be healthy and ready.

I agree, those are just some names that could have stop the emergence of the big 3 and wouldn't have won that many tournaments and grand slams with breaking record numbers. Unfortunately, Murray and Del Potro got injured during their prime, although won some tournament themselves they weren't able to compete at the top against the top 3.

Daniel91

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Quote from: aoluain on February 06, 2022, 07:15:47 AM

^
Definitely both would have remained a challenge to the top 3 and would have
won more grand slams and deprived Federer, Nadal and Djokovic some of the
20, 21 and 20 slams they have now. It would be a different scene now.

Dominic Thiem coming back this year can offer a threat to Nadal, Medvedev,
Djokovic, Zverev and Tsitsipas. Dominic is a quality player and still has a lot to offer.

I totally agree with you. Had Andy Murray and Del Potro been healthy and without so many injuries, surely the big three would have won fewer GSs and other big tournaments.
I don't think we should forget Wawrinka here, who was also very successful and managed to win as many as 3 GS tournaments during the tennis reign of the Big Three.
It is obvious that the time of Medvedev, Zverev and other young players is slowly coming, and Thiem will probably join them if he will be healthy and ready.

aoluain

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ABN AMRO in Rotterdam starts today with some interesting matches

McDonald 1.53 - 2.46 Basilashvili

Goffin 3.20 - 1.34 de Minaur

Hurkacz 1.19 - 4.50 Tsonga

Norrie 1.74 - 2.06 Humbert

I am going with de Minaur and Hurkacz but I recon they all have the potential to
be close matches.

Some big names not competing this year, Medvedev said he is not ready to
play after AO, Sinner has COVID, also not playing are Cilic, Bautista Agut and Molfils.
It does mean that Murray gets a wildcard and is up against Bublik who beat
Zverev in Open Sud de France yesterday ^{i didnt know that was even on!}

teddybear

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 03, 2022, 02:53:18 PM

Quote from: Trofo on February 03, 2022, 12:27:40 PM

Are women in cricket making the same money from tournaments as men? I really doubt it. They are making exactly the same in tennis from grand slam rewards so I say give them same rules then. It should be something they want as well since best of 5 is what makes grand slams special and they will never be treated the same in the eyes of sponsors and most supporters until they do.

In soccer and handball, women are playing on same fields with same rules and same game lengths.

Yes, you are right that they are not getting paid the same amount as in Tennis. But if we compare 90% of the total endurance of the physique of a man to a woman's we will surely get that, that of women would be a bit lower.

Not because they can't match a man but because this is how they were created. Yes, soccer and handball has the same rule sets but since we have different formats for Tennis, like single matches bo3's or bo5's I think the women's getting bo3's are fair. Also, I would not so much oppose bo5's if the players agree.

Women are physically weaker than men in general but not all men*. Regarding prize pool for men and women. I think the organisers/corporate should dictate how much prize an event gets. Which depends on viewers as well as sponsors. Generally men's sports gets a lot more viewers. Be it familiarity, since they have been in the mainstream for much longer, Be it just entertainment. Now organisers are trying to be politically correct and try to improve women's sports prize pool. Which is great for womens atheletes as the motivation and incentive would be much higher. I think tennis is one of the few sports where the viewership disparity between men's and women's games isn't too high. Other similar sport would be beach volleyball. Coming back to tennis, Women's should have 5 set grand slams too. It would lead to a lot more epic battles. However, if they do implement, they should play by the next gen rules. First to 4 games per set wins. Tie breaker at 3-3. No advantage, 40 is game or break point. Would take away the mini dull moments that we have around 3-3 score line . Where the conclusion of the set is still far off.

mv1986

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Quote from: Kemarit on February 05, 2022, 11:09:12 PM

Quote from: mv1986 on February 05, 2022, 10:42:07 PM

Quote from: Jating on February 05, 2022, 10:29:36 AM

Of course, I still remember Del Potro, he has the distinction of being the first tennis player to defeat both Nadal and Federer at the same tournament - 2009 US grand slam. Nadal on semis and then Federer on finals. He has achieved so much in tennis that he was also the only one outside of the big 3 to win a tournament at least.

Interesting to see how Peng Shuai is really doing at this point. And it's good that Thomas Bach is extending efforts to make sure she is doing well.

This is a bad ending not only because he was a great tennis player, but also because he was a great sportsman in general. Much like Rafael Nadal or Federer, never really complains, always tries to comeback and never seeks to abuse excuses for his losses no matter what the reason was. Damn he missed so many years as a pro player because of his wrist and now his knee. Hopefully he has a great tournament in Buenos Aires!

Correct, one of the players who withstand the onslaught on the big 3 or big 4 during their prime years. He has won tournaments against them and then lost some.

But I guess the body can only take that much, and probably genetics as well play a big role for players to to be able to remain and stay healthy years after years. Unfortunately, he is not one of them, so the wear and tear after his prime. But hey, who can't stop him from making a comeback?

Genetics definitely play a massive role! Whatever sport you look at, staying free of injuries is a major factor for a sportsman to become a world star. Who would Messi or Ronaldo be if their knees were hurt every three months and they missed 20 games per season? Who would Federer or Djokovic be if they frequently had their elbow or wrist injured? Del Potro is a prime example what happens to a player with absolute world class potential if the body doesn't go hand in hand with what the player is able to deliver potential wise?

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Quote from: Daniel91 on February 06, 2022, 04:33:22 AM

I also came across the news that this tournament in Argentina is a farewell for Del Potro and that it will be the last tournament of his career.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60273217

Realistically, probably similar news, about the end of a great career, we can expect for Murray soon.
It is a pity that in this way, due to injuries, we lose two great tennis players who played together with the big three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, and still achieved great tennis results.
Who knows where Murray and Del Potro would be now if only the injuries hadn't stopped them.

Yeah I also read it, too bad! Del Potro was a top player and I always liked to watch him. He is only 33 but his body has decided it's over. Chances do exist that Murray will also retire soon, but on the other hand Murray just loves the game and can still play on a decent level.

aoluain

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^
Definitely both would have remained a challenge to the top 3 and would have
won more grand slams and deprived Federer, Nadal and Djokovic some of the
20, 21 and 20 slams they have now. It would be a different scene now.

Dominic Thiem coming back this year can offer a threat to Nadal, Medvedev,
Djokovic, Zverev and Tsitsipas. Dominic is a quality player and still has a lot to offer.

Daniel91

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Quote from: aoluain on February 06, 2022, 03:49:18 AM

^
Absolutely, its all good to see players coming back into competition, Andy Murray
is a current example of being out for an extended period, having major surgery and
still able to compete at a reasonable level. Juan Martin del Potro was indeed a great player
but I dont think he will be as potent as before, time and surgery take their toll.

I saw this headline from Eurosport from a few hours ago

Quote from: https://www.eurosport.co.uk/tennis/juan-martin-del-potro-announces-retirement-from-professional-tennis-after-argentina-open_sto8758145/story.shtml

"Perhaps it is more a farewell than a return"

I also came across the news that this tournament in Argentina is a farewell for Del Potro and that it will be the last tournament of his career.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60273217

Realistically, probably similar news, about the end of a great career, we can expect for Murray soon.
It is a pity that in this way, due to injuries, we lose two great tennis players who played together with the big three, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, and still achieved great tennis results.
Who knows where Murray and Del Potro would be now if only the injuries hadn't stopped them.

aoluain

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^
Absolutely, its all good to see players coming back into competition, Andy Murray
is a current example of being out for an extended period, having major surgery and
still able to compete at a reasonable level. Juan Martin del Potro was indeed a great player
but I dont think he will be as potent as before, time and surgery take their toll.

I saw this headline from Eurosport from a few hours ago

Quote from: https://www.eurosport.co.uk/tennis/juan-martin-del-potro-announces-retirement-from-professional-tennis-after-argentina-open_sto8758145/story.shtml

"Perhaps it is more a farewell than a return"

Kemarit

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Quote from: mv1986 on February 05, 2022, 10:42:07 PM

Quote from: Jating on February 05, 2022, 10:29:36 AM

Of course, I still remember Del Potro, he has the distinction of being the first tennis player to defeat both Nadal and Federer at the same tournament - 2009 US grand slam. Nadal on semis and then Federer on finals. He has achieved so much in tennis that he was also the only one outside of the big 3 to win a tournament at least.

Interesting to see how Peng Shuai is really doing at this point. And it's good that Thomas Bach is extending efforts to make sure she is doing well.

This is a bad ending not only because he was a great tennis player, but also because he was a great sportsman in general. Much like Rafael Nadal or Federer, never really complains, always tries to comeback and never seeks to abuse excuses for his losses no matter what the reason was. Damn he missed so many years as a pro player because of his wrist and now his knee. Hopefully he has a great tournament in Buenos Aires!

Correct, one of the players who withstand the onslaught on the big 3 or big 4 during their prime years. He has won tournaments against them and then lost some.

But I guess the body can only take that much, and probably genetics as well play a big role for players to to be able to remain and stay healthy years after years. Unfortunately, he is not one of them, so the wear and tear after his prime. But hey, who can't stop him from making a comeback?

mv1986

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Quote from: Jating on February 05, 2022, 10:29:36 AM

Of course, I still remember Del Potro, he has the distinction of being the first tennis player to defeat both Nadal and Federer at the same tournament - 2009 US grand slam. Nadal on semis and then Federer on finals. He has achieved so much in tennis that he was also the only one outside of the big 3 to win a tournament at least.

Interesting to see how Peng Shuai is really doing at this point. And it's good that Thomas Bach is extending efforts to make sure she is doing well.

This is a bad ending not only because he was a great tennis player, but also because he was a great sportsman in general. Much like Rafael Nadal or Federer, never really complains, always tries to comeback and never seeks to abuse excuses for his losses no matter what the reason was. Damn he missed so many years as a pro player because of his wrist and now his knee. Hopefully he has a great tournament in Buenos Aires!

Jating

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Of course, I still remember Del Potro, he has the distinction of being the first tennis player to defeat both Nadal and Federer at the same tournament - 2009 US grand slam. Nadal on semis and then Federer on finals. He has achieved so much in tennis that he was also the only one outside of the big 3 to win a tournament at least.

Interesting to see how Peng Shuai is really doing at this point. And it's good that Thomas Bach is extending efforts to make sure she is doing well.

Daniel91

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OK, let’s get back to the tennis news Grin

''Former US Open champion Juan Martin del Potro will make his comeback at next month's Argentina Open, having last played competitively in June 2019.''
Who remembers this tennis player? When he was at his peak, he was a very tough opponent for all top tennis players, beating Djokovic at the Olympics etc.
He is now returning after a very long break due to injury and will play in a domestic tournament in Argentina.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60208439

''Former US Open champion Dominic Thiem is set to return to court next month at the Indian Wells Masters.''
Another tennis player is returning after a long break due to injury. Do you think he could continue to play at the old level and in competition with Medvedev, Zverev, Nadal .. win the GS tournament again?
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60244785

Finally, do you remember the story of a Chinese tennis player who disappeared from public after accusing a Chinese politician of raping her?
''
International Olympic Committee president Thomas Bach will meet Chinese tennis player Peng Shuai to "convince us in person of her wellbeing and state of mind".''

Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60241026

casperBGD

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Quote from: Trofo on February 03, 2022, 05:38:44 AM

~sinip
Maybe it is not modern fay of thinking but you can't compare grand slam titles between WTA and ATP. Guys are playing grueling BO5 matches while girls still play BO3. I am all for equality but then let's make them play by the same rules and see who will be left standing. Without looking at the numbers I am quite sure Barty total time on court this year in AO has been less then Nadal time on court in just semi final and final.

yeah, and since prizes are the same (tennis is probably the only sport where women and men are paid equally), Nadal is paid a lot less per hour spent on the court

nevertheless, if they would equalize B03 would be played in men tennis as well, and that is probably the next step, when Nadal and Djokovic are out, have to say that I support that, since watching five hours of tennis is really not my thing, and especially could not see me on a stadium, sitting for five hours, while they play (would probably eaten a extra-super-sized pack of popcorn's and got sick until fifth set Roll Eyes

)

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Quote from: RealMalatesta on February 03, 2022, 03:29:54 PM

If you get the greatest coach whose ever lived, enough money to survive you and your family for 20 years until you are professionally making a ton, and you could spend 15 hours a day training (breaks included of course) then you will be like Nadal too. Obviously hard work doesn't mean everything, it is required, you have to work harder than everyone else, but money and early education until you are ready matters a lot as well.

Nah, no way. Take your random clumsy guy from gym class and try to make him an athlete - no way in hell he makes the top 100 with all the best coaches in the world.
Hard work is really important - but for it to really matter you have to be extraordinarily talented as well.

You will always find some exceptions of course (for example Karlović in tennis or Robertson in football) but the general rule is that talent is a prerequisite for success. Then it depends on hard work later.

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: Minor Miner on February 03, 2022, 05:26:40 AM

Players like Nadal or Federer or Djokovic have some inborn talents in them which gives them a headstart in their career, you know.

But other players like Medvedev or Zverev don't have that, they have to get better over time by practicing a lot.
Yes, Nadal and Federer were far better than Medvedev at his age but I think that it has something a bit related to god-gift which gave them the headstart they needed to come to a legendary position they are in right now.

I do not believe this, I do not really believe that players are born with talents. Obviously your body matters, like in basketball you can't be some 170cm tall 100kg person who could be a great basketball player, same goes with tennis, your lateral movement matters and some of that is from your birth, but it is not really THAT much difference. What matters is how much you practice and how great of a practice you are getting.

If you get the greatest coach whose ever lived, enough money to survive you and your family for 20 years until you are professionally making a ton, and you could spend 15 hours a day training (breaks included of course) then you will be like Nadal too. Obviously hard work doesn't mean everything, it is required, you have to work harder than everyone else, but money and early education until you are ready matters a lot as well.

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Quote from: Trofo on February 03, 2022, 12:27:40 PM

Are women in cricket making the same money from tournaments as men? I really doubt it. They are making exactly the same in tennis from grand slam rewards so I say give them same rules then. It should be something they want as well since best of 5 is what makes grand slams special and they will never be treated the same in the eyes of sponsors and most supporters until they do.

In soccer and handball, women are playing on same fields with same rules and same game lengths.

Yes, you are right that they are not getting paid the same amount as in Tennis. But if we compare 90% of the total endurance of the physique of a man to a woman's we will surely get that, that of women would be a bit lower.

Not because they can't match a man but because this is how they were created. Yes, soccer and handball has the same rule sets but since we have different formats for Tennis, like single matches bo3's or bo5's I think the women's getting bo3's are fair. Also, I would not so much oppose bo5's if the players agree.

Topic: Tennis League All Thread - page 309. (Read 203623 times)