Test Cricket Prediction and Discussion Thread [self - mod] - page 370.

Patrol69

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Quote from: MusaPk on December 11, 2023, 03:32:21 AM

Quote from: Patrol69 on December 11, 2023, 12:10:46 AM

Instead of seeing how Bangladesh performed at home against New Zealand, you see the results of Bangladesh's tour of New Zealand. The tour of New Zealand will prove that Bangladesh have taken home advantage which is always a wrong decision for them. Earlier in several series Bangladesh Australia beat England New Zealand by huge margin but whenever they played in England or New Zealand they lost embarrassingly. They were taken on the New Zealand tour with the confidence that a spin bowler can spin the ball four to five degrees on the Mirpur wicket, do you think Bangladeshi bowlers will get four degrees or five degrees trun against New Zealand on New Zealand soil, never. Since making such wickets is causing them loss instead of profit then why can't they refrain from making such wickets?

Bangladesh has got test status in 2000 and they also have proper domestic setup along with T20 League. Despite all that hard work there performance in international cricket is never satisfactory. Afghanistan who don't have proper domestic setup and no popular T20 league, they are much ahead of Afghanistan in terms of performance in International cricket. Preparing such friendly pitches is doing more harm to Bangladesh cricket then good.

Not long after Afghanistan got their Test playing status, in recent days they have proved that they are just as capable in the Test format as they are in the ODI and T20 formats. There is no domestic league tournament in Afghanistan and the players are not given enough salary and allowances by the Afghanistan Cricket Board but if Bangladesh Cricket Board is considered in terms of facilities and financial condition then Bangladesh Cricket Board is more financially than other countries.
BPL is the second most popular franchise tournament league after IPL according to Bangladeshi media. There is no financial crisis, there is a good quality domestic league, yet this team performs worst in major tournaments like the World Cup. It is still unknown to us when this team will be properly taken care of and when this team will perform well.

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Quote from: Ayers on December 11, 2023, 05:38:11 AM

If we talk about test cricket, Bangladesh is not very good. But if we talk about the other formats of cricket, I will say that Bangladesh is just having a bad time. But let's talk about test cricket, for now, Bangladesh is not very good at it. And at this moment I do not think Bangladesh should actually think about getting better in test cricket. It will be far better if they think about improving in other formats. Especially in t20 cricket. Because that is definitely going to be the future of cricket.

Yes, I agree with you that Bangladesh is not a well-playing Test Cricket Team. Bangladesh needs more concentration to find well-playing player hunting missions to arrange many more tournaments inside Bangladesh. I hope many more tournament helps Bangladesh to find perfect players by root. On the other hand, if the Bangladesh Cricket Board decides to concentrate on the field of T20. I think in the future, T20 will be the only game for Cricket.

Do you agree with me?

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Quote from: MusaPk on December 11, 2023, 03:32:21 AM

Quote from: Patrol69 on December 11, 2023, 12:10:46 AM

Instead of seeing how Bangladesh performed at home against New Zealand, you see the results of Bangladesh's tour of New Zealand. The tour of New Zealand will prove that Bangladesh have taken home advantage which is always a wrong decision for them. Earlier in several series Bangladesh Australia beat England New Zealand by huge margin but whenever they played in England or New Zealand they lost embarrassingly. They were taken on the New Zealand tour with the confidence that a spin bowler can spin the ball four to five degrees on the Mirpur wicket, do you think Bangladeshi bowlers will get four degrees or five degrees trun against New Zealand on New Zealand soil, never. Since making such wickets is causing them loss instead of profit then why can't they refrain from making such wickets?

Bangladesh has got test status in 2000 and they also have proper domestic setup along with T20 League. Despite all that hard work there performance in international cricket is never satisfactory. Afghanistan who don't have proper domestic setup and no popular T20 league, they are much ahead of Afghanistan in terms of performance in International cricket. Preparing such friendly pitches is doing more harm to Bangladesh cricket then good.

If we talk about test cricket, Bangladesh is not very good. But if we talk about the other formats of cricket, I will say that Bangladesh is just having a bad time. But let's talk about test cricket, for now, Bangladesh is not very good at it. And at this moment I do not think Bangladesh should actually think about getting better in test cricket. It will be far better if they think about improving in other formats. Especially in t20 cricket. Because that is definitely going to be the future of cricket.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 10, 2023, 09:49:58 PM

Quote from: Marvell1 on December 10, 2023, 12:45:25 PM

I actually think that the turning tracks are going to produce more skillful and close matches. But the problem is when one team knows that the track is going to be spinner-friendly and plays the players accordingly and also selects players accordingly. But on the other hand, their opponent is not very sure about that. So sometimes the matches become one-sided. So that is something I believe nobody likes to see. But it is also true that when the track is absolutely friendly towards the fast bowlers, nobody bats an eye.

About your second point, if that's the case then it's not a pitch problem but the captain and his supporting staff who failed to read the pitch condition. When you visit the subcontinent then you have to have 2-3 spinners, you can't be ignorant about it and play 4 seamers on spinning conditions. I remember the last tour of England when they played in Motera, these guys went with 4 seamers and just 1 spinner, it was freaking hilarious and dumb.

You won't see any subcontinent team play with 4 spinners at Gaba, Lords and Cape Town.

Well, that raises another point. Teams playing in the subcontinent are always going to produce more spinners because the conditions favor them. And it is definitely easier to have two/three. Really world-class spinners among them.

But fast bowlers are not getting that much help from these situations. And even if a lot of bowlers like Mustafizur Rahman from Bangladesh, and other medium fast bowlers, who actually do very well in these conditions, are not going to be able to perform well going to England or Australian pitches.

I think the same thing does not apply for Australia or England or other teams. Because most probably spinners who are going to perform well in those tracks, are going to perform much better coming to the subcontinent.

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Quote from: Patrol69 on December 11, 2023, 12:10:46 AM

Instead of seeing how Bangladesh performed at home against New Zealand, you see the results of Bangladesh's tour of New Zealand. The tour of New Zealand will prove that Bangladesh have taken home advantage which is always a wrong decision for them. Earlier in several series Bangladesh Australia beat England New Zealand by huge margin but whenever they played in England or New Zealand they lost embarrassingly. They were taken on the New Zealand tour with the confidence that a spin bowler can spin the ball four to five degrees on the Mirpur wicket, do you think Bangladeshi bowlers will get four degrees or five degrees trun against New Zealand on New Zealand soil, never. Since making such wickets is causing them loss instead of profit then why can't they refrain from making such wickets?

Bangladesh has got test status in 2000 and they also have proper domestic setup along with T20 League. Despite all that hard work there performance in international cricket is never satisfactory. Afghanistan who don't have proper domestic setup and no popular T20 league, they are much ahead of Afghanistan in terms of performance in International cricket. Preparing such friendly pitches is doing more harm to Bangladesh cricket then good.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 09, 2023, 06:47:41 PM

NZ plays fewer tests overall so I think most of the time they use him strategically. He's not their first choice spinner in the subcontinent but he makes it into the team when they play in SENA countries because the likes of Ish Sodhi and Azaz Patel are pretty much useless in SENA condition and on top of that Satner is handy with the bat so he gets in as a spin all rounder. Having said that, I believe in the future Satner's competition in SENA conditions would be Rachin Ravindra if the new guy Rachin can improve his bowling in Red ball cricket.

Rachin Ravindra could be a pretty useful batting all rounder but he need to bring variations if he wants to match the santner's bowling skills and talking about the choice of spinners he could be in any pitches whether its SENA or subcontinent because he got pace too and on 4th and 5th day he could be a dangerous bowler to face.

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Quote from: 3kpk3 on December 11, 2023, 12:01:00 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 10, 2023, 09:23:42 AM

Subcontinent teams, pundits, media and fans never complain about pitch conditions in SENA countries, no matter how dangerous or alien are those conditions. Everyone only focuses on how to prepare good fast bowlers and how batters can improve against seam, bounce and so on. We don't hear the same narrative when any SENA country tours here in the Subcontinent. All we read and hear about moral policing about unfair and doctored pitches.

Understandable. Many people neglect the fact that luck is also a major factor when it comes to changing pitch conditions. For example, dew might come into play at any time changing the pitch condition completely.

Rain could also interfere and change the pitch condition. Some players adapt well to changing conditions while some don't.

There is no dew factor in red ball cricket. There might be some possibility of dew in D/N tests but so far we have hardly seen any impact, also the sample size is too small. In general, dew always favors the batting side but if we look at the pink ball behavior then it becomes lethal under lights.

Moisture does come into play but it happens on virtually every pitch despite the format. That's why the first hour of the test match becomes very important and considered the "See the ball carefully" phase.

Quote from: Patrol69 on December 11, 2023, 12:10:46 AM

do you think Bangladeshi bowlers will get four degrees or five degrees trun against New Zealand on New Zealand soil, never. Since making such wickets is causing them loss instead of profit then why can't they refrain from making such wickets?

No spinner gets any turn in New Zealand, it's a graveyard for spinners. Most of the time they don't even pick a front line spinner; when they pick one, the poor guy always goes wicketless or hardly gets the chance to bowl.

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Quote from: MusaPk on December 10, 2023, 11:30:47 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 09, 2023, 12:24:06 PM

Bangladesh messed up when they created the minefield for the second time in a row. It backfired on them, as the New Zealand bowlers made life miserable for the Bangladeshi batsmen. And don't forget the fact that Bangladeshi had won the toss and had opted to bat first. Despite the home advantage and tailor-made pitch, Bangladesh managed to lose the match. This is a huge morale booster for New Zealand. They managed to level the series 1-1 and it is a big achievement given the hostile conditions and past record.

Imagine what Bangladesh would be doing if they won this test series. They are only capable of winning matches at home due to such pitches. There performance abroad is terrible throughout. If a team is good at home and terrible outside then one can easily figure out whats the reason of there win at home. No team was able to score 200 runs in both innings and this pitch deserves some negative points from ICC.

Instead of seeing how Bangladesh performed at home against New Zealand, you see the results of Bangladesh's tour of New Zealand. The tour of New Zealand will prove that Bangladesh have taken home advantage which is always a wrong decision for them. Earlier in several series Bangladesh Australia beat England New Zealand by huge margin but whenever they played in England or New Zealand they lost embarrassingly. They were taken on the New Zealand tour with the confidence that a spin bowler can spin the ball four to five degrees on the Mirpur wicket, do you think Bangladeshi bowlers will get four degrees or five degrees trun against New Zealand on New Zealand soil, never. Since making such wickets is causing them loss instead of profit then why can't they refrain from making such wickets?

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 10, 2023, 09:23:42 AM

Subcontinent teams, pundits, media and fans never complain about pitch conditions in SENA countries, no matter how dangerous or alien are those conditions. Everyone only focuses on how to prepare good fast bowlers and how batters can improve against seam, bounce and so on. We don't hear the same narrative when any SENA country tours here in the Subcontinent. All we read and hear about moral policing about unfair and doctored pitches.

Understandable. Many people neglect the fact that luck is also a major factor when it comes to changing pitch conditions. For example, dew might come into play at any time changing the pitch condition completely.

Rain could also interfere and change the pitch condition. Some players adapt well to changing conditions while some don't.

JSRAW

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Quote from: Marvell1 on December 10, 2023, 12:45:25 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 10, 2023, 09:23:42 AM

Quote from: 3kpk3 on December 10, 2023, 09:03:03 AM

~snip~

Yes, it's a problem.

But I have a bone to pick with someone who continuously believes that seaming, bouncy and fast conditions are somehow signs of true cricketing wickets and by creating spin/rank turner these savage brown folks are destroying the sanctity of a beautiful game of cricket.

Subcontinent teams, pundits, media and fans never complain about pitch conditions in SENA countries, no matter how dangerous or alien are those conditions. Everyone only focuses on how to prepare good fast bowlers and how batters can improve against seam, bounce and so on. We don't hear the same narrative when any SENA country tours here in the Subcontinent. All we read and hear about moral policing about unfair and doctored pitches.

I actually think that the turning tracks are going to produce more skillful and close matches. But the problem is when one team knows that the track is going to be spinner-friendly and plays the players accordingly and also selects players accordingly. But on the other hand, their opponent is not very sure about that. So sometimes the matches become one-sided. So that is something I believe nobody likes to see. But it is also true that when the track is absolutely friendly towards the fast bowlers, nobody bats an eye.

About your second point, if that's the case then it's not a pitch problem but the captain and his supporting staff who failed to read the pitch condition. When you visit the subcontinent then you have to have 2-3 spinners, you can't be ignorant about it and play 4 seamers on spinning conditions. I remember the last tour of England when they played in Motera, these guys went with 4 seamers and just 1 spinner, it was freaking hilarious and dumb.

You won't see any subcontinent team play with 4 spinners at Gaba, Lords and Cape Town.

Bureau

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So what happened when Pakistan played against the b tem of Australia. I didn't follow the game, while checking Espn web portal I found that the won. Good for Pakistan but the margin if win was very little. How did the new captain perform and some of thier batters who were struggling?

The next game would be against the team that won the ashes. Do you guys think it will be a good game to watch or should I keep myself to highlights. I most of the time only watch highlights of a 5 day game but, this time I have the curiosity to watch the new captain of Pakistan for a test match. Do you think it is worth watching?

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Quote from: MusaPk on December 10, 2023, 11:30:47 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 09, 2023, 12:24:06 PM

Bangladesh messed up when they created the minefield for the second time in a row. It backfired on them, as the New Zealand bowlers made life miserable for the Bangladeshi batsmen. And don't forget the fact that Bangladeshi had won the toss and had opted to bat first. Despite the home advantage and tailor-made pitch, Bangladesh managed to lose the match. This is a huge morale booster for New Zealand. They managed to level the series 1-1 and it is a big achievement given the hostile conditions and past record.

Imagine what Bangladesh would be doing if they won this test series. They are only capable of winning matches at home due to such pitches. There performance abroad is terrible throughout. If a team is good at home and terrible outside then one can easily figure out whats the reason of there win at home. No team was able to score 200 runs in both innings and this pitch deserves some negative points from ICC.

Bangladesh is just a third world corrupt country which having no merit policy and system which help their youths to have better things in sports so just because of this things like this are happening even now just because of BPL they are having good money but still their system and infrastructure is not allowing them to have strong changes for increase of quality and their performance even this all is not easy but if they want to have better results then surely they need to go ahead and bring drastic changes for better future.

After 24 years of international cricket their rank is still below 8 in all formats and now Afghanistan is improving their performance and quality which is going to help them for having better result even they are not able to play games at home so need good policymakers and also professional peoples those bring exciting players and professionalism in the game.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 10, 2023, 09:23:42 AM

Quote from: 3kpk3 on December 10, 2023, 09:03:03 AM

Face it people. Unfair pitches are one of the worst aspects of cricket which literally everyone are aware of which is something we just got used to over time sadly. Pitch conditions keep changing more rapidly with time thanks to global warming etc.

Bangladesh could have won the series if rain washed out the 2nd test, but that didn't happen since luck favoured the Kiwis.

Yes, it's a problem.

But I have a bone to pick with someone who continuously believes that seaming, bouncy and fast conditions are somehow signs of true cricketing wickets and by creating spin/rank turner these savage brown folks are destroying the sanctity of a beautiful game of cricket.

Subcontinent teams, pundits, media and fans never complain about pitch conditions in SENA countries, no matter how dangerous or alien are those conditions. Everyone only focuses on how to prepare good fast bowlers and how batters can improve against seam, bounce and so on. We don't hear the same narrative when any SENA country tours here in the Subcontinent. All we read and hear about moral policing about unfair and doctored pitches.

I actually think that the turning tracks are going to produce more skillful and close matches. But the problem is when one team knows that the track is going to be spinner-friendly and plays the players accordingly and also selects players accordingly. But on the other hand, their opponent is not very sure about that. So sometimes the matches become one-sided. So that is something I believe nobody likes to see. But it is also true that when the track is absolutely friendly towards the fast bowlers, nobody bats an eye.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 09, 2023, 12:24:06 PM

Bangladesh messed up when they created the minefield for the second time in a row. It backfired on them, as the New Zealand bowlers made life miserable for the Bangladeshi batsmen. And don't forget the fact that Bangladeshi had won the toss and had opted to bat first. Despite the home advantage and tailor-made pitch, Bangladesh managed to lose the match. This is a huge morale booster for New Zealand. They managed to level the series 1-1 and it is a big achievement given the hostile conditions and past record.

Imagine what Bangladesh would be doing if they won this test series. They are only capable of winning matches at home due to such pitches. There performance abroad is terrible throughout. If a team is good at home and terrible outside then one can easily figure out whats the reason of there win at home. No team was able to score 200 runs in both innings and this pitch deserves some negative points from ICC.

JSRAW

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Quote from: 3kpk3 on December 10, 2023, 09:03:03 AM

Face it people. Unfair pitches are one of the worst aspects of cricket which literally everyone are aware of which is something we just got used to over time sadly. Pitch conditions keep changing more rapidly with time thanks to global warming etc.

Bangladesh could have won the series if rain washed out the 2nd test, but that didn't happen since luck favoured the Kiwis.

Yes, it's a problem.

But I have a bone to pick with someone who continuously believes that seaming, bouncy and fast conditions are somehow signs of true cricketing wickets and by creating spin/rank turner these savage brown folks are destroying the sanctity of a beautiful game of cricket.

Subcontinent teams, pundits, media and fans never complain about pitch conditions in SENA countries, no matter how dangerous or alien are those conditions. Everyone only focuses on how to prepare good fast bowlers and how batters can improve against seam, bounce and so on. We don't hear the same narrative when any SENA country tours here in the Subcontinent. All we read and hear about moral policing about unfair and doctored pitches.

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Face it people. Unfair pitches are one of the worst aspects of cricket which literally everyone are aware of which is something we just got used to over time sadly. Pitch conditions keep changing more rapidly with time thanks to global warming etc.

Bangladesh could have won the series if rain washed out the 2nd test, but that didn't happen since luck favoured the Kiwis.

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Quote from: roksana.hee on December 10, 2023, 01:09:59 AM

Bangladesh won the first match of the two-match Test series between Bangladesh and New Zealand by huge runs, but in the second match, Bangladesh was caught out by Glenn Phillips at the Sher Bangla Stadium in Mirpur due to bad weather conditions. The series is tied 1-1.

The problem is not that Bangladesh lost to New Zealand, the problem is that Bangladesh gave very little run target to New Zealand only 172+144. Which was a very sad score for the Bangladesh team. This defeat once again proved that the continuity of the Bangladesh team could never be preserved.

All the best for the Bangladesh team, there will be good things in the future.

Two games of this test series between New Zealand team and Bangladesh team have been very exciting and enjoyable to watch. Both teams haved showed brilliant effort in both games. In 2 nd inning of New Zealand, G.Phillips batsman scored good runs and showed well effort in batting lineup. G.Phillips was not dismissed from any bowler of Bangladesh team and he scored 40 runs in 48 balls and he hitted four 4s and one 6s. M.Santner was also showed good effort and he scored 35 runs in 36 balls and he hitted three 4s and one 6s on pitch and his wickets not down. Both these teams won one game each and tied this series. This game was won New Zealand team by 4 wickets.

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Quote from: Shishir99 on December 10, 2023, 04:15:29 AM

Quote from: vennali on December 10, 2023, 03:01:00 AM

Shortest ever test wrt the balls played happened in Mirpur again. It was only a 2 match test series, while Bangladesh won the first, New Zealand took the 2nd to make the series a draw and by winning, they won the shortest Test match wrt the balls played.

Ok. If I am not wrong, The test match from 2018 In Mirpur resulted in 1 demerit point for the condition of the Pitch. It was marked as average by ICC and 1 demerit point was added. But BCB continued making such pitches but fortunately, they didn't get any demerit points in the last five years. That was the shortest test match in terms of balls played.

Now, this one has taken the place. Do we know if this ground got some demerit points or not? The Pitch was below average or I could say it was a Poor wicket to play the test. BCB should refrain from arranging all the matches in this stadium so they can make a better pitch.

A great win by New Zealand! Their approached these pitches with the right attitude—no blocking, just aggressive play. But, Bangladesh's strategy backfired, and the fact that almost 180 overs were bowled shows how challenging the pitch was. It seems like Bangladesh prefers to celebrate success despite facing criticism. Perhaps more demerit points are on the way. Still, I argue that no international match should be held until Bangladesh creates wickets that are worthy of test cricket.

Patrol69

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 09, 2023, 08:33:02 AM

Quote from: Patrol69 on December 09, 2023, 07:21:04 AM

I didn't think I would get the results of Test matches in such a short time but Bangladesh and New Zealand didn't waste any extra time. The match would have ended on the third day had the rain not stopped play. The Bangladeshi batsmen came out to bat on the wicket in the second innings and they quickly returned to the pavilion. In the second innings Bangladesh lost all the wickets and managed to score only 144 runs, on the other hand New Zealand secured an easy victory in the second Test against Bangladesh with four wickets in hand. The result of the first test was in favor of Bangladesh and the result of the second test was in favor of New Zealand Test series draw.

Well.. there was no point in batting defensively on this minefield. It was offering a lot of undue advantage for the spinners (both for those from New Zealand and Bangladesh). Batsmen who actually scored runs in this match, such as Glenn Phillips actually went on the attack mode rather than batting cautiously. Bangladeshi batsmen also tried to attack, but they ended up smashing all the balls without differentiation and this resulted in their downfall. All credit to Ajaz Patel and rest of the New Zealand bowlers. They finally got their line, length and variation right.

While watching part of the Test match live, one of the commentators from New Zealand kept repeating that BCB must monitor the wicket making and improve the quality of their wickets. That commentator said a right thing, it goes without saying because I have seen Bangladesh organize an opposition series with any team right before a big tournament and in that series they produce very poor quality wickets and create a bad confidence in the minds of the players. Poor confidence among players by making bad wickets always results in failure in major tournaments. There is no need for such a home advantage if the team does not do well in major tournaments. Bangladeshi fans might be fed up of seeing Bangladesh wickets like this now they surely expect good quality wickets from the curator.

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Quote from: fuguebtc on December 10, 2023, 04:57:57 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 10, 2023, 01:38:00 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 10, 2023, 01:10:10 AM

Well.. this is something that has happened in the past with teams like India as well. They prepare dustbowls against SENA teams, hoping that their spinners will be able to exterminate the opposition. Once in a while, spinners from the opposition side take advantage of this situation and in the end the tactic backfires on the sub-continental team. As such there is nothing wrong with these tactics from Bangladesh. If they had prepared good pitches, then in all probability New Zealand would have swept the series 2-0.

Does this backfire narrative apply to Aussies? They managed to lose 2 back to back series in their backyard by giving Indians bouncy wickets.

Does this also apply to Poms? They rolled over green pitch at lord etc and almost lost the series and had to settle with a draw series after one year.

Does this narrative also apply to Proteas? Remember the time, when they gave such a bouncy, paced pitch that their batters refused to bat on, kohli's team spanked them badly there despite losing a series.

SENA countries offering Green, Bouncy, Seam and talk would be around good/bad cricket, good/bad cricketers and skill/unskilled but everyone takes a U-turn when any subcontinent team prepares spin wickets. I hope you got the point.

In Test cricket, every team is going to prepare the pitch as they wish it to be. And most of the time they are going to prepare the tracks so that they have an advantage. That is going to be the story of almost every test match in every country.
I don't know why, for some reason, people are losing their minds over this. Because people should know that this is what they should expect. And the team touring another country also knows that very well and they should also be prepared accordingly.

Now it's time for having few positive changes in this game because if they are not going to have improved things then surely we lost more charm which is not ideal even currently we are having few issues which are related to different things as few years back there were talk we need to skip toss with visitors have to choose what they want bat or bowl first and also need to check before start of the match by ICC inspection team which will give all review about this because we need to improve results and performance of teams as well which will help to this format for having better results and pitches like these are surely not allowed because it's not good now we need to go for the minimum three or four days game.

Topic: Test Cricket Prediction and Discussion Thread [self - mod] - page 370. (Read 167748 times)