Pages:
Author

Topic: The END of ICO's? - page 14. (Read 8832 times)

sr. member
Activity: 658
Merit: 252
September 19, 2017, 01:15:56 PM

Neither China nor Usa can sound the death knell for ICO's. Besides this, Many of the ico are not be made available for USA's citizens. For that reason, I think that bad news which will come from china and usa will have instant impact on prices. Crypto world is future and it is a revulotion and nobody can hinder it.
newbie
Activity: 11
Merit: 0
September 19, 2017, 12:50:26 PM

This won't be happening. Countries can take regulations, but this will never help them regulate the ICO structure barely. This will only a fear factor for ICO conducters that's all.

They can create companies in Singapour, Cayman Islands etc. They keep it anyway.

You are right, they can control some organization but not all since that regulation is only applicable to some countries, but since majority of ico are born here the bitcointalk can regulate it and to some extend weed out scam ico's
End of ICO isnt really an appropriate word to be used.It maybe regulated but not all countries do really have the same decision regarding on this field on which its really still possible to join or invest on ICO. They might do such act but it cant really stop completely. Scam Ico's cant really be avoided and this is really a responsibility for a certain investor to look at and to be awared of.

I really agree i THINK icos need to be regulated in order to make the difference between scam and relevant one. But it s still a interesting way to make money by speculating on the token and the project himself.  You need to check several essential points before doing this king of purchase
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 502
September 19, 2017, 12:45:02 PM
Since bitcoin was created as a decentralized currency that is against this kind of measures taken by governments, I will say that even if this lowers the amounts of scam coins this is something that I do not agree, we cannot let governments to dictate what is right and wrong in crypto that is a very dangerous step, if you want to see less scam coins then you need to stop investing in them.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
September 19, 2017, 12:39:11 PM
I do not think it will be end of ICO since there are still some hot ICO projects now, and some ICO projects will be there in the coming days, I think it is a good way to raise money for development but the dev team should be more careful.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 107
September 19, 2017, 12:36:59 PM
Regulation is inevitable. It`s now a wild wild west. I think with regulation, more money will come in.
full member
Activity: 202
Merit: 100
September 19, 2017, 12:28:17 PM
If anything I think it will be good in the long term. It may help to weed out the shitcoins and scams.
full member
Activity: 854
Merit: 100
September 19, 2017, 12:13:18 PM
I don't think so. I think that it's good for ICO's to be regulated because scam ICO's could be lessened. And if ever I invest then I'll have a better peace of mind.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
September 09, 2017, 04:40:25 PM
I don't agree that ICOS gonna end in matter of time. I believe there will be lot more regulated icos incoming. So it will be harder to cheat people. There could be less ICOs than right now but it is still going to better.

It’s the end of ICOs in terms of:

Additionally, as I have pointed out numerous times already, the ICO-issued tokens (even if legally issued) will be at best illegal to trade on non-regulated exchanges and via P2P spending (and at worst unregistered and illegal to trade). IOW, an ICO-issued token becomes encumbered with future regulation issues and is entirely unsuitable for a decentralized ledger cryptocurrency token.

They ICO-issued tokens will become regulated in the manner stocks are. They will trade on regulated exchanges. You can’t spend them to another person like a cryptocurrency. Thus they can’t actually be used on the decentralized ledger. They won’t legally be able to have any utility other than perhaps to be burned as some form of utility. The main benefit over stocks might be there will be more exchanges (not just the Dow Jones and NASDAQ).

If the regulators were to allow ICO-issued tokens to trade freely (i.e. as a cryptocurrency), then they will have lost control over rampant, fraudulent speculative tragedy-of-the-commons mania.

Additionally until nations are able to harmonize their securities regulation, ICO-issued tokens will have to issued according to a particular nation’s securities regulation, and thus not be suitable way to raise funds from the crypto community globally.

We’ve been in a situation where the rules are very uncertain with many different nation-state jurisdictions. And it is very legally risky for anyone to be involved with ICO-issued tokens in any way, even buying and selling them. Yet only now are readers beginning to wake up to the legal risk they face and contemplate if they better stop trading ICO-issued tokens. Yet so many others are dominated by their greed and will continue to attempt to trade ICO-issued securities under the assumption that the governments can’t incriminate so many people. I think they’re gravely mistaken. The reason the regulators are stepping in now, is to stop it before the number of people incriminating themselves is too great.

It is possible that ICO-issued tokens could continue to trade clandestinely but the key players will be hunted down and punished. Those ICO-issued tokens will not be mainstream. Law abiding public will shun them.

Filecoin is not a counter example.
sr. member
Activity: 475
Merit: 250
Presale is live!
September 09, 2017, 11:07:18 AM
I don't agree that ICOS gonna end in matter of time. I believe there will be lot more regulated icos incoming. So it will be harder to cheat people. There could be less ICOs than right now but it is still going to better.
full member
Activity: 322
Merit: 100
September 09, 2017, 10:52:20 AM
China is indeed the largest global market in Asia if for ICO project affairs, how the community controls the problems that exist in china and stop regulations that prohibit the manufacture of ICO in one of these largest markets.
I keep wondering if this kind of thing is only temporary or forever? Huh
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1124
Invest in your knowledge
September 08, 2017, 08:35:24 PM
As long as there is unregulated flow of anything valuable, governments and people will seek to control it. China is only the first and they will break the iceberg with this.

How powerful are major players in the U.S. markets and investing over the U.S. government to stop them for any regulation? We'll find out, we know all these big guys have only gotten into crypto in the last 1-2 years.
'
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
September 08, 2017, 08:34:10 PM
…since the USA and China won't be participating.

Why do you not mention Russia, South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Canada, and the UK, which have all warned that more regulation of ICOs is probably coming.

Japan regulates the hell out of everything, so surely they will join the regulation party.

Also the EMSA (EU) can regulate ICOs in a heartbeat:

https://www.coindesk.com/icos-eu-will-slow-giant-regulate-tokens/
https://news.bitcoin.com/europe-power-ban-blockchain/ <- “Europe Will Have Power to Ban Blockchain Tech in January 2018”
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
September 08, 2017, 08:31:06 PM
I don't think it's the end of ICO's but it will surely affect the amount of money raised since the USA and China won't be participating.  The days of crazy amounts of bitcoins and ethereums being thrown at ICO's might be over and it will take much more work to get investors. 
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
September 08, 2017, 08:26:27 PM
The ICO ban by the Chinese government is just to protect their citizens for obvious reasons. I think with out the USA and China, there is still the rest of the world so definitely its not the end of ICO's.

You do not seem to understand the dilemma from the standpoint of an honest developer such as myself who wants to raise funding but not get in trouble with the law.

Those other countries that you refer to which have unclear regulation, are a huge risk. If I do an ICO and sell only to people in those countries, not only do I eliminate the countries where people have the most money to invest (e.g. UK, USA, China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Canada, and Hong Kong which all planning to stop ICOs), but worse than that, I can later some years from now be retroactively found to have violated common sense notions of securities and become culpable under the law.

So honest developers won’t risk it. Instead you’ll have the scammers who seem to not care and have a criminal mindset who are offering the ICOs.

That is a dysfunctional outcome. And the regulators of the G20 are waking up and realizing it can’t be allowed.

I wish there would be some globalized regulatory standard asap, but there will not be soon.

Thus honest people should not be touching ICOs. They shouldn’t issue them, nor trade in them. Unless they have a criminal mindset and do not care about their future trouble with the law.

Additionally, as I have pointed out numerous times already, the ICO-issued tokens (even if legally issued) will be at best illegal to trade on non-regulated exchanges and via P2P spending (and at worst unregistered and illegal to trade). IOW, an ICO-issued token becomes encumbered with future regulation issues and is entirely unsuitable for a decentralized ledger cryptocurrency token.

Startups who embark on the ICO journey are creating automated value transfer systems that operate across borders with no KYC. These systems, once turned on, cannot be turned off or controlled. But the startups will continue to be expected to maintain them.

This is not easy, technically or legally. For this reason, the SAFT is clearly not anything near a cure-all for the compliance issues an ICO startup will later face, whether in the field of securities regulation or otherwise.

An interview about SAFT explains some of the issues, but do realize I disagree that the SAFT is a valid solution.
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
September 08, 2017, 06:37:35 PM
I don't think this is the end for ICOs, but the FUDFest has started and future ICOs will be able to raise smaller funds, that's for sure.
full member
Activity: 322
Merit: 119
BEST BOUNTY MANAGEMENT. 10+ BOUNTIES MANAGED
September 08, 2017, 06:33:44 PM
The ICO ban by the Chinese government is just to protect their citizens for obvious reasons. I think with out the USA and China, there is still the rest of the world so definitely its not the end of ICO's.
full member
Activity: 322
Merit: 100
September 08, 2017, 06:23:42 PM
I don't think this series of events signals the end of ICOs. Regulation is inevitable. The strongest ICOs will still find a way to succeed, with or without government regulation.
I also think that ICO will not end but more tightened for some reason.
ICO's success is not from regulation that prevents them, but how an ICO team can manage strategy, convince investors, sell or buy.
they are all important elements of the success of an ICO Project.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
September 08, 2017, 05:55:39 PM
Written in 2016 (not by myself):

All of the ICO's you mentioned issued unregistered securities illegally not only in the US, but in the Commonwealth, Europe, etc...most juristictions of the world have regulations to protect unsophisticated investors, such as yourself, from yourselves.

Kraken is not the issuer, so they commited no crimes. They issue nothing, they just provide a secondary market according to the rules.

Are you learning disabled?

I made an analagy about selling illegal things. Tech startups issuing unregistered securities and selling them to Americans are exactly as illegal as heroin. It doesn't matter where the startup is based. It doesn't matter where the heroin is produced. Neither the drugs nor the unregistered securities may legally be sold in America, and most other modern jurisdictions.

Nobody has been busted...yet. You may be holding securities where all the principles are suddenly renditioned and jailed. I don't care because I am not stupid enough to hold securities where the managers are criminals. And could be renditions with bags over their scammy heads and imprisoned at anytime. Fall of the security price is a certainty, suddenly, without warning. And, this is the single most likely scenario.

You evidentially are that stupid. Musical chairs: when the music is over your dumbfuck crap drops to hell. You are one of the dumbest people I have encountered on Reddit.

You believe you can make up your own laws? Dumb fucks like you get raped in prison every day.

This is awful complicated stuff. Are you sure you are smart enough to be involved in a market where illegal and legal are confusing concepts for you?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Live Stars - Adult Streaming Platform
September 07, 2017, 10:35:41 PM
Don't worry man. It's not the end of ICOs, these countries are trying to manage icos to protect investors, not forbid forever.
they just try to protect investor and block laundering money
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
September 07, 2017, 05:33:37 PM
After China & Korea, Hong Kong also raised concerns about ICO:
https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/05/hong-kong-ico-concern/

UK is also contemplating regulating ICOs. Singapore, USA, and Canada have also warned.



Most start-ups would not have the resources to comply with regulations and therefore, they can only take money from friends, family and accredited investors.  This means that if ICOs are regulated, most people would not be allowed to invest.

Incorrect on both points. First, friends and family as investors aren’t exempt from securities regulation. Secondly, there is crowd funding of equity now with Regulation A (SEC) and Regulation CF (SEC). Crowd equity that targets non-accredited investors requires thorough disclosure on par with what would be disclosed if registering securities.

A downside with these crowd equity paradigms for non-accredited investors is that they are more or less country specific. Regulation CF requires that the company funded must be incorporated in the USA, and it selling to other countries may not be possible, e.g. to UK investors. This gets to be quite a mess to raise funds from people all over the world:

https://www.paulhastings.com/publications-items/details/?id=9c59e969-2334-6428-811c-ff00004cbded

We were contemplating to do a crowd equity round at launch of our project (which would be 100% legal). You would not get tokens, rather restricted shares which receive a dividend when pre-mined tokens are sold in the future by corporation (sold only when there is no longer any investor expectation dependent on the efforts of the corporation). It requires long-term investment. It removes the scammy pump & dump aspect. Short-term speculators can buy the tokens on the open markets if they prefer, and these are not issued in exchange for money, thus are not securities. But an additional downside is that most investors want to take their gains as capital gains (for tax planning flexibility), so they’d want instead of dividends to have an IPO, but the regulation of IPOs is rather onerous.

If we go that route, we’ll likely end up in some regulatory or lawsuit “purgatory” (i.e. gridlock clusterfuck) down the line. It is a huge mess that we need to avoid.

The reason we would not offer tokens via crowd equity, is because the tokens would then be restricted securities, not tradeable, and even if later registered, then only tradeable on regulated exchanges:

And the growing use of private placements like the Reg D structure is something investors should note. Namely, it means that the next generation of tokens could be securities in the view of U.S. regulators.

Thus we’d separate the investment in shares from the investment in tokens. Tokens are issued without taking money, so they are not securities and can traded legally. One way to issue tokens without taking money is to have a competitive proof-of-work mining. STEEM showed another way to issue without taking money via onboarding; and we’ll have a different onboarding variant.

Bad news for pumpers and scammers. Their party is going to be crashed by the regulators. Their ill-gotten funds will be clawed back. Always in life, crime does not pay.

Those who have issued or promoted ICOs (i.e. participated in signature campaigns thus are affiliates), I suggest getting an attorney asap. You’re not going to like what is coming.

The paradigm is changing. We anticipated this since 2015 and warned everyone. But of course most people ignored it.

Yet we are still not comfortable with any of the legal means to raise funds. So we’re still looking for a different model that can also be legal and avoid making the tokens securities.



Note for raising early stage seed capital from a small number of angel investors, then Regulation D  (which provides safe harbor) is normally used as an exemption from SEC registration of the securities (and similarly in other countries such as Canada). Specifically Rule 506(b) because it eliminates the need to register in every State where there is an investor. The only requirement is to file a simple report with the SEC and in every applicable State. Of course there are similar reports to be filed in other countries (such as Form 45-106(f1) in Canada) where there are investors.

The main point is that registration is very onerous with requirement of very thorough and strict disclosure, which consumes considerable cost, effort,  and risk to the issuer of being sued or prosecuted for omitting or misleading material facts of disclosure. Thus it is desirable for early stage fund raising to be offered only to accredited investors and only offered privately (no public advertising of the offering). In this way, only the anti-fraud aspects of disclosure apply. And there is no registration, only a simple filing of summary form.

Note that investors which are bona fide directors or officers of the corporation are considered to be accredited investors, even if they would otherwise be non-accredited (but this can not be used as a scheme to sell investment to non-accredited investors who do not offers skills to the corporation which do not justify their legitimate appointment as directors or officers). But under Securities Act Rule 4(a)(2) these must be registered with each respective State, unless they are being given away and not sold.

Recently it became much easier to resell restricted (even “control”) shares, and accredited investors can apparently purchase restricted shares from other accredited investors directly. Yet that still is quite restrictive for those who want capital gains and not dividends.

Disclaimer: IANAL. This is not legal advice.
Pages:
Jump to: