The Lightning Network FAQ - page 33.

ndalliard

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 23, 2021, 06:34:01 AM

I haven’t explored the website yet, but a this is a social network platform built on the Lightning Network called “Zion”, https://getzion.com/

I don’t know how it works or if it’s required that you run your own node, I hope it doesn’t have that requirement for low entry barrier for new users.

this is a pretty stupid idea... there is already activity pub for example, why reinvent the wheel? for what?

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: ?? on ??

Instead of relay transaction/payment request, it relays encrypted message/media.

It should relay both transaction requests and encrypted messages; how else would you chat with the users and fund at the same time?

Quote from: ?? on ??

Not sure how practical is it when there are many users involved.

For the zion node? Yes, it'll become more consuming while more users enter the discussions. I guess that those $9 per month suffice the requirements for a usual community. (10-30 members)

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 23, 2021, 06:34:01 AM

I haven’t explored the website yet, but a this is a social network platform built on the Lightning Network called “Zion”, https://getzion.com/

I like it, as an idea. It is a completely open-source censorship resistant network. As far as I can understand, you'll have to run your own LN node to be the admin of your community. I wonder if it works via an anonymous protocol such as Tor or i2p to prevent you from port forwarding so you can communicate peer-to-peer (as it promises).

The team behind this (called “n2n2”) rents nodes, so it's more like a combination of self-sovereign and business.

Wind_FURY

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I haven’t explored the website yet, but a this is a social network platform built on the Lightning Network called “Zion”, https://getzion.com/

I don’t know how it works or if it’s required that you run your own node, I hope it doesn’t have that requirement for low entry barrier for new users.

Rath_

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 3131

c-lightning v0.10.1 has been released. If anyone is interested in opening a dual-funded channel then my offer still stands. Make sure to contact me before opening a channel to me so that I can adjust my funder policy.

Rath_

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Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 09, 2021, 04:31:52 PM

It seems like I need to dig deeper into c-lightning & LND. Thanks for helping me out!

c-lightning is great if you are interested in features like dual-funding or funding multiple channels in a single transaction. LND is much better in terms of available services: ThunderHUB, Zap Wallet, Lightning Loop, Sphinx Chat and so on. I used both of them and so far I have been enjoying c-lightning more.

Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 09, 2021, 04:31:52 PM

I guess that "Channel reserve" triggered my Question. I send about 150 Sats through another Channel and wondered why I can't receive 1 Sat Invoices after that.

Exactly. The channel reserve is usually 1%-3% of the total channel capacity. In our channel, it is equal to 1200 satoshi so you can receive 58800 satoshi through me despite that you have paid me 60k satoshi.

JustAnOtherLoser

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Quote from: Rath_ on August 09, 2021, 03:53:04 PM

If I were running LND instead of c-lightning, we would be able to have two channels. Apparentely, it is a c-lightning limitation.

It seems like I need to dig deeper into c-lightning & LND. Thanks for helping me out!

Quote from: Rath_ on August 09, 2021, 03:53:04 PM

You will be able to receive that much (minus a negligible channel reserve) through me. In other words, you will gain some inbound capacity.

I guess that "Channel reserve" triggered my Question. I send about 150 Sats through another Channel and wondered why I can't receive 1 Sat Invoices after that.

Rath_

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Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 09, 2021, 03:47:20 PM

So - Now you can't open a Channel to me? Thats really strange. I just want inbound capacity,
why you so complicated Mr. LN? :')

If I were running LND instead of c-lightning, we would be able to have two channels. Apparentely, it is a c-lightning limitation. As for the inbound liquidity, that's why I am asking you to pay a Lightning invoice in exchange for an on-chain transaction. The moment you pay my invoice, half of the channel balance will be moved to my side. You will be able to receive that much (minus a negligible channel reserve) through me. In other words, you will gain some inbound capacity.

JustAnOtherLoser

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Activity: 37

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Quote from: Rath_ on August 09, 2021, 06:24:15 AM

.
@JustAnOtherLoser - I have just tried opening a channel and I got an error that we already have one. Sorry for causing the confusion. I have never heard people complain about this.

So - Now you can't open a Channel to me? Thats really strange. I just want inbound capacity,
why you so complicated Mr. LN? :')

Rath_

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Quote from: ndalliard on August 09, 2021, 05:51:37 AM

according to this issue on github it is not possible - i read it somewhere else too, but can't find the source atm

Thanks for that link. I have no idea how I could have missed it.

@JustAnOtherLoser - I have just tried opening a channel and I got an error that we already have one. Sorry for causing the confusion. I have never heard people complain about this.

As we agreed earlier, I am going to send you an invoice for around half of the total channel balance and refund you via an on-chain transaction. Please, send me your Bitcoin address either here or via PM.

ndalliard

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 177

Quote from: Rath_ on August 09, 2021, 04:48:12 AM

Quote from: ndalliard on August 09, 2021, 04:41:10 AM

hmm, i thought c-lightning doesn't allow to have more than one channel with one peer - or are you guys trying something different here?

That's exactly what we are trying to do. Why would c-lightning not support it, though? I can't find any information that states so.

according to this issue on github it is not possible - i read it somewhere else too, but can't find the source atm

JustAnOtherLoser

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Activity: 37

Merit: 16

Opening a Channel worked now!

Rath_

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Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 08, 2021, 11:06:47 PM

Yeah, sure. Let's test this out!

I have just closed the channel and the closing transaction has been already confirmed.

Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 09, 2021, 12:21:01 AM

or console commands. I always wondered if I could get 0 sats through, but never tried by now.

Even if you managed to sign a feeless transaction, it would be rejected by the majority of the nodes. Unless you gave it directly to a miner willing to help, you would be out of luck.

Quote from: ndalliard on August 09, 2021, 04:41:10 AM

hmm, i thought c-lightning doesn't allow to have more than one channel with one peer - or are you guys trying something different here?

That's exactly what we are trying to do. Why would c-lightning not support it, though? I can't find any information that states so.

ndalliard

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 177

Quote from: Rath_ on August 08, 2021, 09:32:15 PM

I wonder if you could open a channel to me if I closed my channel. Would you mind if we give it a try? I would close my channel. Then, you would open a 100k-120k satoshi channel to me and I would try opening back a channel with the same value.

Why a 100k-120k channel? In case I am not able to open a channel to you, I could receive ~50k-60k satoshi through your channel and refund you via an on-chain transaction. This way, we would have a perfectly balanced channel even if we fail to open another channel. I am also open to other suggestions.

hmm, i thought c-lightning doesn't allow to have more than one channel with one peer - or are you guys trying something different here? Huh

JustAnOtherLoser

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Activity: 37

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on August 08, 2021, 11:19:49 PM

I can't convince bitcoin core to set a transaction fee to zero, the lowest I can go is one satoshi (it sets it to one thousand per kb, but I'm sure you understand what I'm referring to).

I was just wondering, what bitcoin wallet are you using that allows you to set a zero sat fee paid for transactions?

I never tried by now to be honest! I use a multiple of wallets & software. Most of them just deliver an input field
or console commands. I always wondered if I could get 0 sats through, but never tried by now.
Before LN I never moved any of my coins anyway Tongue

Timelord2067

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💲🏎️💨🚓

I can't convince bitcoin core to set a transaction fee to zero, the lowest I can go is one satoshi (it sets it to one thousand per kb, but I'm sure you understand what I'm referring to).

I was just wondering, what bitcoin wallet are you using that allows you to set a zero sat fee paid for transactions?

JustAnOtherLoser

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Activity: 37

Merit: 16

Quote from: Rath_ on August 08, 2021, 09:32:15 PM

I wonder if you could open a channel to me if I closed my channel. Would you mind if we give it a try? I would close my channel. Then, you would open a 100k-120k satoshi channel to me and I would try opening back a channel with the same value.

Yeah, sure. Let's test this out! Just out of curiosity: When the Mempool is really empty, could I set 0 sats per vByte as fee? In theory a miner should not mind, if the block has empty space or will I end up bumping the fee to get my Tx through?

ps.: Thanks for fiddling around with my umbrel problems Tongue

Rath_

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Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 06, 2021, 05:38:01 PM

My remaining Balance would be about 120k Sats after opening a 70k Channel to you. If I understood correct everything above 100k should be sufficient?

Yes, that would be more than enough.

Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 06, 2021, 05:38:01 PM

Regarding your Log + Time request
My Last Try was at: 23:28 - UTC/GMT +1:00 (06.08.2021)

I couldn't find anything useful in the logs. I have no idea what else could be the cause. Last month, two people managed to open channels to me but they were both running c-lightning and we didn't have any other active channels.

Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 06, 2021, 05:38:01 PM

So maybe I should not hackle with it myself by now? ...Maybe I
should migrate my Umbrel into something less "consumer friendly

I can't guarantee you that it will work once you have migrated. I double-checked LND changelogs and it turns out that your node supports anchor channels without any extra configuration.

Quote from: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/releases/tag/v0.12.0-beta

lnd will now open the new channel type dubbed "anchor channels" by default if both peers support it.

I wonder if you could open a channel to me if I closed my channel. Would you mind if we give it a try? I would close my channel. Then, you would open a 100k-120k satoshi channel to me and I would try opening back a channel with the same value.

Why a 100k-120k channel? In case I am not able to open a channel to you, I could receive ~50k-60k satoshi through your channel and refund you via an on-chain transaction. This way, we would have a perfectly balanced channel even if we fail to open another channel. I am also open to other suggestions.

JustAnOtherLoser

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Activity: 37

Merit: 16

Quote

Are you still running LND v0.12.1?

=> "version": "0.12.1-beta commit=v0.12.1-beta"
I don't know why, but thats whats running on my Umbrel.
I'll have to look it up, I guess? Maybe there is a reason?

edit: Reddit => "You have to wait for Umbrel to support it.
Apparently v0.13 had some big changes with how the wallet is
unlocked so i am assuming that is what’s taking them so long."

So maybe I should not hackle with it myself by now? ...Maybe I
should migrate my Umbrel into something less "consumer friendly" Tongue

Quote

It looks like either you won't have enough funds in your wallet to meet the above criteria after opening a channel to me.

My remaining Balance would be about 120k Sats after opening a 70k Channel to you. If I understood correct everything above 100k should be sufficient?

Quote

or my node expects you to support anchor output channels which you probably don't have enabled.

I don't even. Anchor Output Channels? I need to search this up.

Edit: If I understood correctly, Anchor Output Channels are just special Outputs to have a fee bumping feature.
This means my Bitcoin full node should be implementing package relay, which is another feature itself?
Am I getting here somewhere or should I stop digging? Cheesy

Regarding your Log + Time request
My Last Try was at: 23:28 - UTC/GMT +1:00 (06.08.2021)

Hope this helps somehow Embarrassed

Rath_

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Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 05, 2021, 11:24:34 PM

(sat_per_vbyte did not seem to exist as parameter)

That's weird. You can see here that it's a valid parameter. I even remember using it a few months ago when I was running LND.

Quote from: JustAnOtherLoser on August 05, 2021, 11:24:34 PM

LND Log:

Are you still running LND v0.12.1? You messaged me that you updated Umbrel but I am not familiar with it.

Code:

[WRN] CHFD: Unable to find funding output for shim intent: unable to create witness script, no funding keys

I looked up the above warning and found out something interesting.

Quote from: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/issues/5599#issuecomment-891641663

This is expected. With the new anchor output channel format you need to keep a reserve in your wallet for when a channel needs to be force closed. The error you get isn't very helpful but this has been fixed in a recently merged PR: #5577

So you need 10k sats per channel (or a maximum of 100k sats in total) as a reserve.

Anchor output channels have been enabled by default since LND v0.13.0. It looks like either you won't have enough funds in your wallet to meet the above criteria after opening a channel to me or my node expects you to support anchor output channels which you probably don't have enabled.

I have just updated my node to the latest master branch and enabled more detailed logs. Let's see if it works now or if we can at least find out something useful.

Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 33. (Read 32058 times)