The story of Betnomi.com (Exit Scam) - page 6.

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Quote from: pixie85 on August 08, 2023, 02:13:12 PM

Quote from: efialtis on August 07, 2023, 01:35:16 PM

The minimum amount of ledgers you would need to buy through the official ledger website is ~300 if I remember correctly.

I highly doubt that sorsis spent 100x 80 USD or so...

It's 100.

300 minimum is for custom packaged ledgers. The one that I got was only with logo, no custom packaging.

I just noticed now this topic. And I remember I saw a post once ago made by them, talking about these hardware wallets used by them during raffles. After some research I found the respective post, which was made on Arpil 11th, 2023:

Quote from: betnomi.com on April 11, 2023, 02:46:20 PM

Let me clarify some details. To begin with, these custom wallets were not originally intended for ruffles or any other contests and events. These custom wallets were ordered in 2021 directly from the manufacturer to thank the employees for their hard work (quite a while has passed since then, and it is not surprising that the firmware is a little outdated). But we still had a few wallets left, until one of the forum users suggested some ideas where we can put them.

However, I found another post made from their secondary account, stating something a little contradictory...

Quote from: ?? on ??

Betnomi team, could you more personalize your gifts to Betnomi users, please.

On your gifts, Ledger wallets, if possible please consider to print usernames of winners from your contests. On each awarded and distributed Ledger wallets to contest winners, there are Ledger, Betnomi and username

At the moment, the manufacturer does not provide customization options.

Even if we wanted to implement this, we would have to buy a batch of new Ledgers, and ask one of our employees to drop everything and take over the entire process (including communication with users, communication with designers, communication with a laser engraving company and delivery , by itself). We are not opposed to this, but users should understand that we will be waiting for some kind of return. 🦊

So at some point in time, this personalisation of the products was possible, then it was not possible anymore... (or, maybe, it was not possible anymore in some conditions which they agreed on?). In any case, the source of the Ledgers should be now clear (based on their statement, at least): they bought them a while ago, for their employees so this is why they had a remaining stash which was offered through raffles or other contests.

Quote from: pixie85 on August 08, 2023, 02:13:12 PM

In my case icopress gave the address to someone from betnomi and they sent the package. There was no real name of the sender on the label, just a nickname. I have the point of origin on my tracking, but it's only a post office location.

I won 3 such Ledgers from Betnomi. In my case all 3 were shipped by minerjones. And all arrived in perfect condition.

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Quote from: pixie85 on August 08, 2023, 02:13:12 PM

Don't know if this is a good place to post it, but after seeing the warnings about malware in betnomi ledgers, I've opened mine and it looked good. No sign of tampering and the board was identical to the pictures of genuine ledgers.

Quote from: LoyceV on August 07, 2023, 01:00:36 PM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on August 07, 2023, 12:56:09 PM

There are concerns of those Ledger device they sent to the winners.

That's a risk indeed. Just in case: don't use it.
Does Betnomi have their shipping address, or did someone else ship them? I wouldn't want someone who pulled an exit scam to know my physical location.

In my case icopress gave the address to someone from betnomi and they sent the package. There was no real name of the sender on the label, just a nickname. I have the point of origin on my tracking, but it's only a post office location.

Good to see your efforts for investigation. But it's hard to give opinion and know unless you are an expert. However I will suggest this is not the end, since there are doubts, it's wise not to use it for huge sum of money. Use it for regular daily trades but to save your crypto use a device which have no bad reputation.

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Don't know if this is a good place to post it, but after seeing the warnings about malware in betnomi ledgers, I've opened mine and it looked good. No sign of tampering and the board was identical to the pictures of genuine ledgers.

Quote from: LoyceV on August 07, 2023, 01:00:36 PM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on August 07, 2023, 12:56:09 PM

There are concerns of those Ledger device they sent to the winners.

That's a risk indeed. Just in case: don't use it.
Does Betnomi have their shipping address, or did someone else ship them? I wouldn't want someone who pulled an exit scam to know my physical location.

In my case icopress gave the address to someone from betnomi and they sent the package. There was no real name of the sender on the label, just a nickname. I have the point of origin on my tracking, but it's only a post office location.

Quote from: efialtis on August 07, 2023, 01:35:16 PM

The minimum amount of ledgers you would need to buy through the official ledger website is ~300 if I remember correctly.

I highly doubt that sorsis spent 100x 80 USD or so...

Edit: https://www.ledger.com/co-branded-partnership#standard

It's 100.

300 minimum is for custom packaged ledgers. The one that I got was only with logo, no custom packaging.

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 06, 2023, 06:31:26 PM

Your reference doesn't lead to anything about fake profiles that I can see. Did I miss miss something? The fake team deal?

Since I was getting quoted from that topic and the images didn't work anymore as I was too lazy to let the bot run all night to convert them to talkimg.

This is how it started:

Quote from: stompix on January 31, 2019, 11:35:49 AM

Quote from: Hellmouth42 on January 30, 2019, 06:51:13 PM

Abdul Rehman "UI / UX Designer" does not have a linkedin profile available on the site.
Besides, I'm suspicious in this picture... (welcome opinion)

Nothing suspicious about it, he just has a 175% bigger head than others...and very poor paint skillz

Quote from: Hellmouth42 on January 31, 2019, 11:47:11 PM

Some additional elements, after having discussed by Telegram with Sorsis
Here is the original photo of Abdul Rehman

It's ugly, it's particularly poorly done, but in reality only the background has been removed from the image

The issue was dropped since it was indeed a modified picture but it wasn't really a fake one, I never pursued the thing anymore.
So now if you ask me the fake thing did not really apply, unless it wasn't really that guy behind the team, and I have like zero idea what happened afterwards.

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We don't know if the ledgers are capable of stealing. It wouldn't be possible Betnomi corrupting ledgers with crypto stealing code if they're sent from the supplier direct. You're at risk if Betnomi ordered to get them first because it's giving them time to repack before sending them with recoding. If you don't remember the sender origin you're advice better safe than sorry is best beyond question. This thread's discussing it Betnomi scam exit & past winners must be careful with Betnomi-branded wallets

I don't use ledgers. I'm trying stacking sats but if I had quantity I wouldn't use ledgers because if they've been tampered in delivery I'll lose it. Delivery interceptions isn't the only worry in ledgers. If you don't focus copy paste addresses you'll suffer ledger address poisoning scams so ledgers aren't safe even if they aren't from Betnomi.

Quote from: LTU_btc on August 07, 2023, 01:38:19 PM

It's good point indeed. It's really possible that exit scam was planned and prepared long time ago. After they sponsored few prediction raffles, made some contests and etc, it didn't looked so, but now when you look at these old red flags that not many of us noticed or didn't paid attention, it's really possible.
I'm one of people who got Ledger wallet from them. Now I don't remember from where it was sent, even country of origin. Box and it's content wasn't touched - it was brand new. But probably it's better safe than sorry and avoid using it.

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Quote from: arabspaceship123 on August 06, 2023, 04:48:38 PM

He's deleted the post after you've told him.

The post was deleted by the moderator, not by the user itself. I had reported it as an off-topic post even before the reply of yahoo62278. BTW, you aren't adding anything new in this thread. Whatever you are trying to highlight here has already been described or added as a reference in the main post. 'holydarkness' has tried to inform you twice in this thread, read the main post carefully and read the post of the users carefully to whom you are pointing out something. Don't make unnecessary posts here.

Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 06, 2023, 07:19:48 PM

Now let's look at the number of dollars spent on contests and promotions. Pretty sure there is a decent number of dollars added up in that area. On top of that, the money they spent paying their team for moderating, managers, live chat, or other services.

Every casino spends huge amount of money: through contests and promotions, by paying their staff, by making sponsorship deals with sports teams, for the marketing purpose and development of the site. There was nothing exceptional on Betnomi. But they had created a positive impression in Bitcointalk by spending their marketing money here.

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on August 07, 2023, 12:56:09 PM

They worked well to prove the feedback sender wrong. Not anymore though. Even a month ago I think it was hard to guess anything negative about them. What have not they done to the forum? Sponsored Champions League pool, sponsored bitcointalk award winners, free Ledger refile, signature campaign and many ore marketing. I don't think the exit plan was not suddenly something that came to their mind. They were planing for it from long time. Hopefully we will not find victims who lost everything in Betnomi. There are concerns of those Ledger device they sent to the winners.

It's good point indeed. It's really possible that exit scam was planned and prepared long time ago. After they sponsored few prediction raffles, made some contests and etc, it didn't looked so, but now when you look at these old red flags that not many of us noticed or didn't paid attention, it's really possible.
I'm one of people who got Ledger wallet from them. Now I don't remember from where it was sent, even country of origin. Box and it's content wasn't touched - it was brand new. But probably it's better safe than sorry and avoid using it.

efialtis

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The minimum amount of ledgers you would need to buy through the official ledger website is ~300 if I remember correctly.

I highly doubt that sorsis spent 100x 80 USD or so...

Edit: https://www.ledger.com/co-branded-partnership#standard

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Quote from: LoyceV on August 07, 2023, 01:00:36 PM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on August 07, 2023, 12:56:09 PM

There are concerns of those Ledger device they sent to the winners.

That's a risk indeed. Just in case: don't use it.
Does Betnomi have their shipping address, or did someone else ship them? I wouldn't want someone who pulled an exit scam to know my physical location.

Just quoting from the other thread; they indeed don't look good

Quote from: ?? on ??

Too late, they are long gone LOL
The story of Betnomi.com (Exit Scam) : This is something fresh for you to study.

Long or not, depends on how you see time. A month ago somebody sent this to me from Spring Hill, Florida, so somebody was alive in there and not willing to take the device for themselves and maybe sell on for a few hundred dollars. I'm sorry for people who got scammed, but I wasn't one of them.

Quote

By the way, don't cry later if the ledger wallet steal your crypto, who knows may be Betnomi created a backdoor in that device and when you will store something they will steal it. Are you not aware of Ledger recent update 😉?

The device looked brand new and untouched, unlike the ones from the articles like this one that clearly was repackaged and had scam instructions inside.

I have an older nano S and am aware of their new updates.
I hold my bitcoin offline and used my old ledger to hold ethereum.
I said it before that your trust in the company should be proportional to the amount of money you have and the risk you're willing to take.
I'm fine with holding ~2000 dollars of ETH on a ledger device worth ~200. If I had a million, I'd be looking for a better solution.

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on August 07, 2023, 12:56:09 PM

There are concerns of those Ledger device they sent to the winners.

That's a risk indeed. Just in case: don't use it.
Does Betnomi have their shipping address, or did someone else ship them? I wouldn't want someone who pulled an exit scam to know my physical location.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: LoyceV on August 07, 2023, 12:48:07 PM

This 4 years old feedback turns out to be correct again:
Image loading...

(source)

They worked well to prove the feedback sender wrong. Not anymore though. Even a month ago I think it was hard to guess anything negative about them. What have not they done to the forum? Sponsored Champions League pool, sponsored bitcointalk award winners, free Ledger refile, signature campaign and many ore marketing. I don't think the exit plan was not suddenly something that came to their mind. They were planing for it from long time. Hopefully we will not find victims who lost everything in Betnomi. There are concerns of those Ledger device they sent to the winners.

LoyceV

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I haven't really followed this case until now. I've updated the Donator link on loyce.club. It now points towards this topic.

This 4 years old feedback turns out to be correct again:
Image loading...

(source)

Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 06, 2023, 07:19:48 PM

I'm by no means on the side of Betnomi here as I think they're cowards for not providing an explanation. I do however think that they just ran out of money, they kept trying to promote the site and spend spend spend, but eventually they just had no more to give.

It's not the first time we've seen that. "Fake it till you make it" (or break it).
Even if it wasn't intentional, they should have had safeguards in place so they could always pay their users. The bankroll shouldn't be considered spending money.

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 06, 2023, 07:19:48 PM

I definitely do not think they rug pulled and scammed a large sum of money. I cannot prove that either, just the feeling I get.

It may not be a rug pull but it's a scam. If they had bad business or ran out of money, they could share the fact and walk away but they didn't take that approach. They would give an explanation if they were in that situation. Not sure how many gamblers they were able to attract from bitcointalk but gamblers from bitcointalk are a very small part of a casino (in addition, the bad reputation they had from the beginning). Moreover, there are few gamblers who told they haven't lost much. That's why we aren't getting lots of accusations.

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Quote from: notblox1 on August 07, 2023, 09:31:30 AM

We know they didnt pay what they owe to one manager from bitcointalk, and maybe we are going to see people who worked for them start to write in forum soon.

It could be the beginning of more complainants. If they've closed the site because of bad business decisions like yahoo62278 says it didn't mean they had to scam workers or users.

Quote from: notblox1 on August 07, 2023, 09:31:30 AM

One guy now claims they scammed him for $20000 and he create scam accusation against them.
I am sure they had more than one customer Grin

$20000 isn't small it's life changing in countries where ppl find life difficult. Betnomi should've closed after paying debts. If they don't pay debts they're scamming every user with account balances accounts because they can't withdraw from a shut website.

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 06, 2023, 07:19:48 PM

Now let's look at the number of dollars spent on contests and promotions. Pretty sure there is a decent number of dollars added up in that area. On top of that, the money they spent paying their team for moderating, managers, live chat, or other services.

We know they didnt pay what they owe to one manager from bitcointalk, and maybe we are going to see people who worked for them start to write in forum soon.
When I saw first they are doing everything manually for withdrawals it was strange to me, than they said they introduced new automatic withdrawals but withdrawals continue to be slower and slower.
I dont know if they lied about everything they say or not, but this was not good indicator for me.

Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 06, 2023, 07:19:48 PM

It's not a good excuse and I cannot prove it, just what I think probably happened. I definitely do not think they rug pulled and scammed a large sum of money. I cannot prove that either, just the feeling I get.

One guy now claims they scammed him for $20000 and he create scam accusation against them.
I am sure they had more than one customer Grin

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Quote from: Poker Player on August 07, 2023, 01:50:50 AM

Quote from: arabspaceship123 on August 06, 2023, 04:48:38 PM

Why wasn't Betnomi booted from the forum if warning signs were there from the very beginning. Could it be they've gained trusts because of sig campaigns and paying for competitions?

Because of what I commented before. The trust system is a fact finding system, a posteriori, rather than a preventive system, which is how I think it should be used.

So, the majority opinion is that this type of cases in the forum should be treated as if it were a criminal case in which someone is only convicted when there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Then, potential scammers take advantage of it. Just by being careful they can scam or set the stage for it for a while.

And then what happens is that when they have already scammed a lot of money and don't show up on the forum again, then they get 17 red tags on their profiles and flags massively supported, when it's too late.

For some people it's hard to understand how freedom is supposed to work. The forum doesn't moderate and delete scams. It's not up to admins to prove who is trying to exit scam and who is not, decide who is right and wrong in an argument between forum members.
When you see a scam, it's up to you to post about it, warn other users and to it in a way that will change their mind about the business.

It's also funny how after the scam suddenly everybody thinks they knew it from the start and saw the red flags. We're all wise after the fact.

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 06, 2023, 07:19:48 PM

It's not a good excuse and I cannot prove it, just what I think probably happened. I definitely do not think they rug pulled and scammed a large sum of money. I cannot prove that either, just the feeling I get.

If they've overspent they've destroyed their rep and business. They should've ran the site professionally. I can't stop my feeling if the scam wasn't deliberate exit now they could've exit any time tomorrow. That's why they've used fake teams in 2019.

Quote from: Poker Player on August 07, 2023, 01:50:50 AM

Quote from: arabspaceship123 on August 06, 2023, 04:48:38 PM

Why wasn't Betnomi booted from the forum if warning signs were there from the very beginning. Could it be they've gained trusts because of sig campaigns and paying for competitions?

Because of what I commented before. The trust system is a fact finding system, a posteriori, rather than a preventive system, which is how I think it should be used.

So, the majority opinion is that this type of cases in the forum should be treated as if it were a criminal case in which someone is only convicted when there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Then, potential scammers take advantage of it. Just by being careful they can scam or set the stage for it for a while.

And then what happens is that when they have already scammed a lot of money and don't show up on the forum again, then they get 17 red tags on their profiles and flags massively supported, when it's too late.

Working in this way it's easy for scammers entering the forum with fake teams. They'll leave with scammed bitcoin inside their pockets in exchanged for 17 red tags on their profile. That isn't the best solution.

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Quote from: arabspaceship123 on August 06, 2023, 04:48:38 PM

Why wasn't Betnomi booted from the forum if warning signs were there from the very beginning. Could it be they've gained trusts because of sig campaigns and paying for competitions?

Because of what I commented before. The trust system is a fact finding system, a posteriori, rather than a preventive system, which is how I think it should be used.

So, the majority opinion is that this type of cases in the forum should be treated as if it were a criminal case in which someone is only convicted when there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Then, potential scammers take advantage of it. Just by being careful they can scam or set the stage for it for a while.

And then what happens is that when they have already scammed a lot of money and don't show up on the forum again, then they get 17 red tags on their profiles and flags massively supported, when it's too late.

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on August 06, 2023, 07:19:48 PM

I really don't see how anyone could think they pulled off a long con or rug pull.

Let's start with the number of scam accusations against the site. I haven't seen very man in this section. So they haven't made a million dollars from that.

Now let's look at the number of dollars spent on contests and promotions. Pretty sure there is a decent number of dollars added up in that area. On top of that, the money they spent paying their team for moderating, managers, live chat, or other services.

Now, where people should have had issues(including myself) is when we started seeing or experiencing delays in payments. Delays in withdrawals.

I'm by no means on the side of Betnomi here as I think they're cowards for not providing an explanation. I do however think that they just ran out of money, they kept trying to promote the site and spend spend spend, but eventually they just had no more to give.

It's not a good excuse and I cannot prove it, just what I think probably happened. I definitely do not think they rug pulled and scammed a large sum of money. I cannot prove that either, just the feeling I get.

You seem to forget, not everybody it at bitcointalk. There are plenty of people playing at betnomi without ever hearing about our forum. So just because you don't find a lot of scam accusations doesn't mean there are a lot of victims.

For example, I have been playing at stake, sp.io, nitrogen around 5 years ago already, and I came to this forum just 1.5 years ago, never even heard of it before. So your argument doesn't have a lot merit.

I think it is a scam, plain and simple. Otherwise there would be some sort of communication. Since there isn't any, it is easy to assume the worst. And that's just my opinion.

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I really don't see how anyone could think they pulled off a long con or rug pull.

Let's start with the number of scam accusations against the site. I haven't seen very man in this section. So they haven't made a million dollars from that.

Now let's look at the number of dollars spent on contests and promotions. Pretty sure there is a decent number of dollars added up in that area. On top of that, the money they spent paying their team for moderating, managers, live chat, or other services.

Now, where people should have had issues(including myself) is when we started seeing or experiencing delays in payments. Delays in withdrawals.

I'm by no means on the side of Betnomi here as I think they're cowards for not providing an explanation. I do however think that they just ran out of money, they kept trying to promote the site and spend spend spend, but eventually they just had no more to give.

It's not a good excuse and I cannot prove it, just what I think probably happened. I definitely do not think they rug pulled and scammed a large sum of money. I cannot prove that either, just the feeling I get.

Topic: The story of Betnomi.com (Exit Scam) - page 6. (Read 2874 times)