Topic: There IS life after DEATH: Scientists reveal shock findings - page 5. (Read 6495 times)

Is There A Soul? Beyond Belief - ABC - Dr. Sam Parnia


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1JarYYWDfQ

Because NDEs have many common core elements, this suggests that they are spiritual voyages outside of the body. Through the visions and experiences common to all dying people, one can learn more about the spiritual journey that begins with death. It stands to reason that these accounts are valid and suggestive of the non-physical reality, similarly, this veridical perception case shows that physical perceptions during NDEs are valid. Why would perception of non-physical phenomena during NDE be any different? Why would it not be veridical in its own right?

The evidence is extensive; it could be that you have not entirely grasped the significance and interconnectedness of the evidence: http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html

You're the one who started this whole fucking mess, own up to it, what I'm saying is that just because there is a life after death, doesn't mean it involves god, for all you know it could be some random thing involving spirits or another life beyond this one without any gods at all. The reason I say you know nothing, is because you genuinely know nothing, you're jumping to conclusions and trying to shove religion down my throat claiming it's all God despite having no fucking proof. Also, as has been said by other people the scientist isn't necessarily saying this is actual evidence of an after life to begin with.

Amazing really how two supposedly ideologically different people are both using the same tactics on me, because just like Criptix you're claiming I've wrote shit that I haven't despite all the post history being made public for everybody to see.

Just how fucking deluded are you two?

As I've said a million times, it could be, that you're wrong about there being a God at all and if there is some kind of spirituality in death it's unlike anything we've imagined as human beings yet. It's so fucking arrogant of you to declare one way or the other without any evidence, all you're doing is citing the opinion of somebody else there is no empirical and measurable data for what you're describing.Now, I don't discount the idea that there could be some form of it, if there were proper research done, however you just pointing at the opinion of somebody else and going "SEE?" doesn't mean a thing.

The only one being close minded here is you thinking that merely quoting somebody elses opinion or theory means you're automatically correct, this is how religions get started in the first place you all point to the fucking bible or whatever holy book you want to worship and go "Look! These people centuries ago who didn't even know what fucking gravity is have the answers to how life was created and what happens in the after life! They're so smart! Lets all worship them and do whatever they say!" seriously, only a genuine moron thinks that way about religion.

That really annoyed me especially as somebody who's on the centre in the political compass and is an Anarchist, fucking close minded, I'm not the one going around declaring things as fact without having properly investigated it first for fucks sake, get a grip on yourself.

Speaking of aliens, how the fuck is somebody like you going to react if we really do find alien life? I'm not sure I'd want someone like you anywhere near them, stop acting like you know the answer to everything and use your brain for once, instead of trying to attack me when I just want to find out the truth of the matter instead of just go "God did it" and won't go along with your bullshit.

Hold on a minute, let's stay on topic:
Firstly, atheists cannot claim that there is a lack of evidence for the afterlife, and you (Lethn) cannot dampen my curiosity by telling me that I have no clue what I am talking about, your assertions are simply lacking in substance and evidence, and you have ignored arguments with real substance like the main ones I have put forward; here they are again:

Dr. Parnia's AWARE study is evidence that mind exists independent of brain, that awareness continues beyond its physical "container". You have no reason to say that I am making up the actual truth of the matter. What exactly am I making up?

It is more elegant and far easier to accept as a working hypothesis that sentience exists as a potential at the source of creation, and the strongest evidence has already been put on the table: Everything to be observed in the universe implies consciousness.

You assert that theists are making up the truth of the matter, but all that I have posted is sound conclusions based on observed evidence and also a reference to other eminent researchers and their educated opinions, with no substantial rebuttal from you.

Your arguments come from ignorance, you infer that I am wrong from the fact that it is not known to be true, but in this case it was documented, so what is your argument against this case study? Why don't you address the evidence?

I suggest you search for the evidence for these things; think clearly and intelligently assess the sources when presented. What is so disturbing about gathering information about NDEs to make your own conclusion? What is so disturbing about learning about possible alien communications or inspired communications of any variety? How are you expecting to learn the truth about the afterlife anyway? The evidence indicates that you can influence the hereafter in this life, it comes from study of NDEs which are spiritual voyages. Here is the evidence that refutes physicalism, it is here in this thread, so I believe this should impel atheists to become more open-minded about these topics.

Here is a valuable paper about how to evaluate the source of anomalous communication based on the content, the author presents a case study; I think it is a useful "field guide"; I also like A Field Guide to Critical Thinking by James Lett:
http://www.rivier.edu/faculty/pcunningham/research/problem_of_seths_origin.pdf

Please point to where I have said that in my post history.

So far, "life" is a supremely complex grouping of chemicals and energies that are acting and reacting on each other in ways that, if their reacting stops, it can't be started again... at least not by any method and means that we are even close to knowing.

Since we can barely reactivate life that is simply taking a "break" for a few moments, how are we ever going to see the complexities of life after death without even acknowledging it?

So you would also choose to ignore radio signals from aliens just like evidence for life after death?

There is no hope for a serious investment in studying spiritual activities. Why? Because there is no money in chasing ghosts.

Unless... Unless there is a strong feeling ghosts are responsible for Global Warming, and a need to tax the family members related to them...

THEN money will poor in...

OK, let's face the facts.
There are many things science can't explain yet and one is question who we are?
Just flash and bones or there is something more?
Religious people believe that we are not just simple physical body but also spirit.
There are so many ''life after death'' experiences that science just can't ignore it or deny it.
Talks with spirits? Spiritual visions? Dreams?
It's really time that science start serious research about this spiritual phenomena.

Welcome to bitcointalk.org

 

Bitcointalk full of Zweisteins.

There is more evidence for flat earth then life after death!

Much smart so intelligent

I'm with agreement, many religious fanatics try to convert others at all costs.

I do not resting because some believers of Jehovah's Witnesses came to my house to talk to me, all they told me was for me fairy tales and all the time they insisted that the end of the world is almost ... I asked:

What day will be this end of the world? they answered me.

Is almost. It was all he knew to say. " IS ALMOST "

But I also realized something, those pastors of the Jehovah's Witness church, went from house to house to tell stories of the Bible

Can anyone imagine WHAT means walking all day from house to house?

It's time for Thiests to admit that even if their is an afterlife they have absolutely no fucking clue what they're talking about and are just completely making up what the actual truth of the matter is and that it may be unlike anything we've ever encountered before, much like if all of a sudden we discovered genuine alien life that can communicate with radio signals like us.

The difference between Athiests and others who don't believe in God or worship the prick is that none of us are arrogant enough to declare one way or another whether we actually know, what the fuck is wrong with that? Why do you insist on trying to shove your religion down peoples throats? You're completely full of shit, I notice the "Why do athiests hate religion?" thread is over 200 pages long, well this is exactly why people who don't believe in god hate religion, it's because you fuckers insist on trying to forcefully convert us all into your fucking cults when the answer isn't going to be as simple as what you'd have gullible people believe.

Just leave me te fuck alone, I'm more than content on living my life the way I want to and finding out after I die what the answer is if it will never be found out while I'm alive, nevermind the fact that religious people often end up living like miserable cunts because of their religions' rules to begin with.

Why would you do that when there is so much more to discover and observe?
By bowing out, you would be behaving just like the atheists who are missing the reality by ignoring or discarding LITERALLY ALL of the powerful evidence that has been presented in this very thread. By asking questions, you and I can both gain a better understanding of the mind/brain relationship.
It would be much better for our rational discussion if you were to think clearly and intelligently assess the source that you were making fun of or otherwise choose another source to reply to.
After all, I did recommend some helpful resources for you to study about consciousness and the quantum connection.
I hope that you jest about my "superior intellect" and that our chat does not irritate you, for I truly do not think of our conversation in that way; I am solely interested in presenting the results of Dr. Parnia's study and the related lines of evidence and finding out the best arguments against that evidence.

"Know thyself" is the phrase that Western society completely forgot; an attentive, silent, open heart is more important than many words and "those who speak, rarely know; those who know, rarely speak". The ancient wisdom teachers all understood and accepted that the non-physical plays an important role in human life and self-actualization.

It is foolish to judge Chopra by some pretended superficial resemblance to others, and it is dangerous to ignore wisdom (and evidence) without examining it. It is well-understood by many that business and spirituality are related topics. You should check out Chopra's videos on business; they are excellent (IMO) and his work is loved by many shrewd businessmen (like Russel Simmons). Chopra is actually giving you excellent wisdom so I highly recommend his videos & etc. "Making money is a pedestrian activity. The challenge is in creating a product or service that the world really needs." The world needs to find Self and understand Self so that mankind can avoid his own self-destruction, therefore Chopra is serving this planet well by explaining to you that Consciousness is what drives evolution.


As I mentioned earlier, atheists are missing the reality by ignoring LITERALLY ALL the powerful evidence that has been presented in this very thread:

It is more elegant and far easier to accept as a working hypothesis that sentience exists as a potential at the source of creation, and the strongest evidence has already been put on the table: Everything to be observed in the universe implies consciousness.

Mistakes can be as valuable as anything? I would prefer that you avoid a wrong turn sooner in your journey, and that is why I bring these topics to your attention; anyone who is rational will intelligently assess these new ideas when presented, so let's think clearly about this evidence that has dramatically overturned physicalism. I note that Chopra has the advantage of a solid understanding of quantum mechanics whereas the physicalists DO NOT.
Since consciousness is what drives evolution and man's mind can exist beyond the brain (physical), what do YOU think is the goal of all of this evolution?

I didn't think that your joke was witty; it was in bad taste.

I am still waiting for someone to present an adequate defense of physicalism in this thread.
Most atheists are physicalists, but enlightened individuals (like Einstein and Gödel and many others) are telling you to look at non-physical things...

According to the medical staff, this patient experienced death for himself just like you are describing.
It seems absurd, but according to modern medicine, this patient WAS dead and then came back to life; he remembers feeling NO PAIN (when shocked) and yet he was able to have a perception of a sound and remember it. His brain could not possibly have produced any sort of awareness BECAUSE HIS BRAIN WAS DEAD, yet HE was AWARE of a sound which actually took place during such a time period. The study author, Dr. Parnia, calls these "actual death experiences" because they cannot be explained by modern physicalist neuroscience. However, there are already some emerging theories of consciousness which can help scientists to understand what is going on, for example:


More reading: Quantum Theory Supports Concepts Found in NDEs

The patient had valid memories that were apparently formed independently of any brain function, so therefore there was consciousness without the brain and a record of the events was left in the patient's consciousness.

There is no materialistic explanation for veridical perception and the memory record without a working brain.

I conclude that the record maintained by the body passes away while the record at the energy level continues to present itself in consciousness.

im about to say this when i read the post. haha
anyway. All i can say is, the only way to know if there is a life after death is by being dead. i dont believe those scientist who just gather data from there computer and tell "That is it there is life and dead the computer says it etc. etc.". as i have said the ONLY way to know is you being dead.

That was great ! I also believe on this matter .i don't know if it is written on the bible but based on so many stories that i know life after deathnand have been watch i believe now.

That's not true; if you assert that something "does not stop" and I prove you wrong then it is evident that something "does not continue". Similarly, if I have a counterexample (or many counterexamples) to the statement "consciousness stops at death", that is equivalent to proving that "consciousness does not stop at death", so therefore "consciousness continues".

Specifically for this thread, No one can ever prove that awareness descends into nothingness after death because that assertion is based on the premise that awareness is generated by the brain, and this case presents a counterexample that refutes the premise. Since the veridical perception was documented and timed, it would be absurd to deny that this patient had a consciousness that continued beyond death.