Maybe, you could provide an idea how to incent people to join and develop DemurrageCoin?
I can't.
Topic: Transparent mining 2, or What part of Legacy should be left behind - page 3. (Read 15635 times)
February 12, 2014, 01:34:22 PM
I can't.
February 12, 2014, 01:28:49 PM
We can easily build a coin on top of Nxt and keep it's price constant with "real coins".
I'd like to see an implementation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency) on top of Nxt.
Why? And who is going to use it?
Coz I like the idea of such money. Dunno if anyone will implement it.
People will be afraid of having their values in this coin.
You could argue that then they will use it for transactions. But why, if I have my values in say XCoin? Why first transferring it to DemurrageCoin in the first place only to transfer it to somebody?
Maybe, you could provide an idea how to incent people to join and develop DemurrageCoin?
I think a DemurrageCoin as a currency only works in a society with only DemurrageCoinsy. But who knows what the implications of the existence of such a coin in the digital world are and what kind of services will be built on top of this coin. Could be a nice experiment.
February 12, 2014, 01:24:31 PM
We can easily build a coin on top of Nxt and keep it's price constant with "real coins".
I'd like to see an implementation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency) on top of Nxt.
Why? And who is going to use it?
Coz I like the idea of such money. Dunno if anyone will implement it.
People will be afraid of having their values in this coin.
You could argue that then they will use it for transactions. But why, if I have my values in say XCoin? Why first transferring it to DemurrageCoin in the first place only to transfer it to somebody?
Maybe, you could provide an idea how to incent people to join and develop DemurrageCoin?
February 12, 2014, 12:03:12 PM
We can easily build a coin on top of Nxt and keep it's price constant with "real coins".
I'd like to see an implementation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency) on top of Nxt.
Why? And who is going to use it?
Coz I like the idea of such money. Dunno if anyone will implement it.
February 12, 2014, 11:59:42 AM
We can easily build a coin on top of Nxt and keep it's price constant with "real coins".
I'd like to see an implementation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency) on top of Nxt.
Why? And who is going to use it?
February 12, 2014, 11:31:21 AM
Did you mean that these "real coins" should not be backed by NXT or other commodities (like gold and silver), but they need to be in certain quantity and created in a PoW fashion?
We can use any approach.
February 12, 2014, 08:29:12 AM
edit: Or is this a terminology problem, because 'gold coins' are no coins?
Hm, looks like this is a problem with my English. BCNext's idea is that NXTs shouldn't be used as mean of exchange.
For me, this ''mean of exchange" means daily commercial payment method. NXT still can be exchanged with the "real coins" (mean of exchange), as the relationship between gold and USD. But how are you able to make the exchange rate between NXT and the "real coins" constant? If the demand for the real coins becomes high, you can issue more real coins to keep the rate constant. But if the demand becomes low, you can't buy back them because there is no central bank. Do you really need to keep it constant?
Why do we need exchange rate between NXT and "real coins" to be constant?
Did you mean that these "real coins" should not be backed by NXT or other commodities (like gold and silver), but they need to be in certain quantity and created in a PoW fashion?
February 12, 2014, 03:36:24 AM
We can easily build a coin on top of Nxt and keep it's price constant with "real coins".
I'd like to see an implementation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency) on top of Nxt.
Interesting something similar to Freicoin.
February 12, 2014, 02:37:52 AM
NXT forging is deterministic, we are not searching for a needle in a haystack. Even with 1 billion forging nodes, you will know with 99.99% (or something close to that) accuracy the next X people that will forge. In the future, base target (difficulty) will simply be a legacy from Bitcoin - which c-f-b mentioned in OP - because why do you need to adjust difficulty when the forging order is already determined? If the order is determined, you simply say "X, broadcast your block at 60s, otherwise you will be penalized." 60 seconds later, "Y, broadcast your block at 60s, otherwise you will be penalized." And so on. In this scenario, X and Y are groups of forgers.
Anyways, I won't claim to understand how any of this works, but the important concept to understand is that forging is deterministic, thus you can have blocks come out in exactly 60 second intervals.
Anyways, I won't claim to understand how any of this works, but the important concept to understand is that forging is deterministic, thus you can have blocks come out in exactly 60 second intervals.
Once the network already knows the order of who will forge, then there is no need for a block delay at all. The network can forge and issue blocks on an as-needed basis in response to pending transactions.
February 12, 2014, 02:04:52 AM
We can easily build a coin on top of Nxt and keep it's price constant with "real coins".
I'd like to see an implementation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency) on top of Nxt.
February 12, 2014, 01:52:25 AM
edit: Or is this a terminology problem, because 'gold coins' are no coins?
Hm, looks like this is a problem with my English. BCNext's idea is that NXTs shouldn't be used as mean of exchange.
For me, this ''mean of exchange" means daily commercial payment method. NXT still can be exchanged with the "real coins" (mean of exchange), as the relationship between gold and USD. But how are you able to make the exchange rate between NXT and the "real coins" constant? If the demand for the real coins becomes high, you can issue more real coins to keep the rate constant. But if the demand becomes low, you can't buy back them because there is no central bank. Do you really need to keep it constant?
Why do we need exchange rate between NXT and "real coins" to be constant?
We can easily build a coin on top of Nxt and keep it's price constant with "real coins".
February 12, 2014, 12:30:06 AM
edit: Or is this a terminology problem, because 'gold coins' are no coins?
Hm, looks like this is a problem with my English. BCNext's idea is that NXTs shouldn't be used as mean of exchange.
For me, this ''mean of exchange" means daily commercial payment method. NXT still can be exchanged with the "real coins" (mean of exchange), as the relationship between gold and USD. But how are you able to make the exchange rate between NXT and the "real coins" constant? If the demand for the real coins becomes high, you can issue more real coins to keep the rate constant. But if the demand becomes low, you can't buy back them because there is no central bank. Do you really need to keep it constant?
Why do we need exchange rate between NXT and "real coins" to be constant?
February 12, 2014, 12:27:46 AM
Just a personal side-note to CfB: when will all of the advanced consensus mechanism be revealed?
When one of u re-invent them.
February 11, 2014, 10:06:10 PM
edit: Or is this a terminology problem, because 'gold coins' are no coins?
Hm, looks like this is a problem with my English. BCNext's idea is that NXTs shouldn't be used as mean of exchange.
For me, this ''mean of exchange" means daily commercial payment method. NXT still can be exchanged with the "real coins" (mean of exchange), as the relationship between gold and USD. But how are you able to make the exchange rate between NXT and the "real coins" constant? If the demand for the real coins becomes high, you can issue more real coins to keep the rate constant. But if the demand becomes low, you can't buy back them because there is no central bank. Do you really need to keep it constant?
February 11, 2014, 05:42:38 PM
Just a personal side-note to CfB: when will all of the advanced consensus mechanism be revealed?
February 11, 2014, 05:40:09 PM
NXT is a little different than bittorrent in that the value of your NXT will drop if the network becomes insecure. If you're a torrent seeder, you're providing a service out of the generosity of your own heart. Additionally, the files your are providing don't actually have any invested value - it is more than likely most seeders are not the ones who created that file, so they could care less if the network failed. In NXT, you're providing a service (forging) because you want to preserve the value of your NXT. Due to game theory, the only node you can truly trust to act responsibly, is your own.
So think of it this way: if you had a multi-million dollar business built on-top of NXT, would you want the network to be weak and insecure? Even if it looks very healthy now, do you trust others to keep their nodes up 100% of the time? Heck no, you'd be forging to make sure the network stays up 100% of the time so it doesn't affect your business. Luckily, the cost of running the NXT client is cents per day.
So think of it this way: if you had a multi-million dollar business built on-top of NXT, would you want the network to be weak and insecure? Even if it looks very healthy now, do you trust others to keep their nodes up 100% of the time? Heck no, you'd be forging to make sure the network stays up 100% of the time so it doesn't affect your business. Luckily, the cost of running the NXT client is cents per day.
I agree with you, too. It is different and as a big business relying on NXT you should better secure it yourself. You won't hear an argument by me.
What I really appreciate about this discussion is the broad and unique perspectives of each of us. And you know what? I think everybody is right in a certain sense. Just wanted to say that. Maybe, it's the music.
But what do we do now? Especially, how do we express our wide variety of opinions in terms of hard NXT variables and algos?
I think most of us:
- agree to lower the fees in order to let people build on top of NXT
- that ventures on top of NXT will secure the network because of their immediate dependence on NXT
- think forging is not evil but should not the foremost reason to join NXT
- advertise NXT in order to raise awareness
- create ideas and inspire people to build on top of NXT
February 11, 2014, 05:14:24 PM
Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, but this seems to idealistically ignore a different sort of selfishness.
If I'm running a Nxt-based business, I could either invest in forging myself, or just not bother, and expect someone else to do it.
A business that forges for itself, with minimal mining rewards, will be less efficient than one that just expects someone else to do it.
The free-riding company will out-compete the 'honest' company.
If I'm running a Nxt-based business, I could either invest in forging myself, or just not bother, and expect someone else to do it.
A business that forges for itself, with minimal mining rewards, will be less efficient than one that just expects someone else to do it.
The free-riding company will out-compete the 'honest' company.
Agree with ChuckOne. Look also at the example of bittorrent: the torrent trackers had to use rating systems and such, just because otherwise there would be too many leechers for too few seeders. That's not because it costs anything (at least in free countries like Brasil, where there is no risk that you could get prosecuted for that) just to leave the client open, it's because people just don't care about it. There are so many things to care about in this life, so it's better to offer at least some reward if we want that people invest some attention to the network maintenance.
I wonder if the idea is doomed because of Diffusion of Responsibility.
NXT is a little different than bittorrent in that the value of your NXT will drop if the network becomes insecure. If you're a torrent seeder, you're providing a service out of the generosity of your own heart. Additionally, the files your are providing don't actually have any invested value - it is more than likely most seeders are not the ones who created that file, so they could care less if the network failed. In NXT, you're providing a service (forging) because you want to preserve the value of your NXT. Due to game theory, the only node you can truly trust to act responsibly, is your own.
So think of it this way: if you had a multi-million dollar business built on-top of NXT, would you want the network to be weak and insecure? Even if it looks very healthy now, do you trust others to keep their nodes up 100% of the time? Heck no, you'd be forging to make sure the network stays up 100% of the time so it doesn't affect your business. Luckily, the cost of running the NXT client is cents per day.
February 11, 2014, 02:48:41 PM
Sorry for the newbie question:
How can we create a decentralised coin backed by Nxt that has a constantly increasing supply? Can we make a feature allowing us to convert Nxt to some coin(made for this) in a decentralised way? Let's say you send 10 Nxt to some "special" account and you somehow automatically receive lets say 100 NXTCASH coins. The conversion rate should follow an algorithm and constantly increase but just slightly. Is this possible? Could that coin offer instant transactions just like Nxt?
How can we create a decentralised coin backed by Nxt that has a constantly increasing supply? Can we make a feature allowing us to convert Nxt to some coin(made for this) in a decentralised way? Let's say you send 10 Nxt to some "special" account and you somehow automatically receive lets say 100 NXTCASH coins. The conversion rate should follow an algorithm and constantly increase but just slightly. Is this possible? Could that coin offer instant transactions just like Nxt?
Currencies backed by NXT r not implemented yet.
February 11, 2014, 02:46:05 PM
Sorry for the newbie question:
How can we create a decentralised coin backed by Nxt that has a constantly increasing supply? Can we make a feature allowing us to convert Nxt to some coin(made for this) in a decentralised way? Let's say you send 10 Nxt to some "special" account and you somehow automatically receive lets say 100 NXTCASH coins. The conversion rate should follow an algorithm and constantly increase but just slightly. Is this possible? Could that coin offer instant transactions just like Nxt?
How can we create a decentralised coin backed by Nxt that has a constantly increasing supply? Can we make a feature allowing us to convert Nxt to some coin(made for this) in a decentralised way? Let's say you send 10 Nxt to some "special" account and you somehow automatically receive lets say 100 NXTCASH coins. The conversion rate should follow an algorithm and constantly increase but just slightly. Is this possible? Could that coin offer instant transactions just like Nxt?
February 11, 2014, 02:31:51 PM
If someone decide to compromise clock servers, it'll affect whole economy and beat attacket back definetely. I don't heard about attacks like that. Nxt also relays on Internet connection 
USB Atomic clock will save ur ass.
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