Topic: &#039;Trump Designates Antifa &quot;A Terrorist Organization&quot;&#039; - page 4. (Read 3247 times)

I would say its actually more of a "Trump rallying his base" issue and like most proclamations Trump has ever made, nothing will become of it.

If you consider this Trump rally his base, which I agree it is, then what does that say about Nancy Pelosi when she defends Antifa and spreads the lie that it is "unmarked" agents that are arresting protesters for graffiti?

If you want my opinion: Antifa isn't helping themselves by defacing and damaging property, throwing things at cops or lighting things on fire. And of course I think that's bad, if it really needs to be said. Certainly innocent people/businesses are getting caught up in their antics and they are discrediting their own movement.

I'd say its a little extreme to call them "terrorists" -- if they were conducting bombings, assassinations or kidnappings, then I would be more likely to agree with the label. One guy swinging a hammer at a federal agent isn't enough to sway my opinion.

It's disingenuous to say it's one guy swinging a hammer that's causing all this. There's daily activity outside of the federal courthouse in Portland that has been set on fire numerous times with Antifa attempting to blind officers with high powered laser pointers who have been involved in numerous unprovoked assaults on LEO's.

Quote from: Barnabe on July 23, 2020, 04:47:46 AM

As a whole, right wing extremists continue to kill more Americans each year than every other type of extremist group - foreign or domestic - combined. Yet for some reason there's not a single mention of them here in this thread (other than by me).

Because it's whataboutism. That's why no one has mentioned it. Two wrongs do not make a right. I can assure you that these left wing groups have caused more bodily injuries within the last couple of months and financial burden than any ring wing attacks thus far this year.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

Quote

First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.

I hope this isn't meant to be a deflection to Antifa's antics and behavior. Antifa's been responsible for 20 million dollars of damages in the last 6 weeks alone just in Portland. Eco-terrorist groups often cause property damage oppose to mass killings but that doesn't negate their terrorist label.

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Quote from: nutildah on July 23, 2020, 01:20:30 AM

Quote from: nutildah on July 23, 2020, 09:55:12 AM

Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still.

~~That's better, but it still has the same legal weight and ramifications as me declaring mosquitoes to be terrorists.~~

Actually, let's take a look at what he actually said:

This will require new laws to be written. Currently, domestic groups can't be labeled terrorist organizations.

So it's more of a technical/judicial issue, but you agree that they are doing actions similar to terrorist groups.

I would say 'they' are doing actions much more similar to the first patriots in the 1750-60s: Stealing, destroying property, knocking down monuments, inciting riots, etc.

If they start trying to kill as many innocent people as possible or uploading videos of people being beheaded we can put them in the same group as isis.

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Quote from: Spendulus on July 23, 2020, 09:17:16 AM

The problem with your reference is that it reads like, and is in fact, a cookbook answer provided to you and others to rebut anti-Antifa arguments, such as you are here doing it it.

That doesn't make it sensible, logical, true, or useful. It could be a pack of lies. In fact, that is the way it looks to me. For example, check this out -

"One of the most concerning is the 2020 U.S. presidential election, before and after which extremists may resort to violence, depending on the outcome of the election. Far-right and far-left networks have used violence against each other at protests, raising the possibility of escalating violence during the election period."

So after 59 days (I think) of left wing anarchist violence in multiple locations we should stop everything and start worrying about right wing violence.

Really?

You didn't actually rebut anything put forth in the report. It just wasn't immediately what you wanted to hear, so you dismissed it on a source-level. T...

Because there's absolutely no reason to go further. If the article contains patent nonsense, the discussion can stop right there. And I posted one of many such examples. The article raises the specter of far right violence, but every day, every one is seeing far left violence.

The problem here isn't mine. It's yours. I didn't make or contribute to the crazy far left violence being orchestrated and played out; I'm only commenting on it. And if your article is in fantasy-land, so be it. It is what it is.

Just one more example and I'm through, because there's really nothing to argue here. The article claims to survey incidents through May 2020. In 2020 it shows no incidents of left wing terrorism in a summary chart. Last I heard, there were 1800 policemen injured in the mayhem on the streets in the last several months of nonsense.

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Quote from: Spendulus on July 23, 2020, 09:17:16 AM

The problem with your reference is that it reads like, and is in fact, a cookbook answer provided to you and others to rebut anti-Antifa arguments, such as you are here doing it it.

That doesn't make it sensible, logical, true, or useful. It could be a pack of lies. In fact, that is the way it looks to me. For example, check this out -

"One of the most concerning is the 2020 U.S. presidential election, before and after which extremists may resort to violence, depending on the outcome of the election. Far-right and far-left networks have used violence against each other at protests, raising the possibility of escalating violence during the election period."

So after 59 days (I think) of left wing anarchist violence in multiple locations we should stop everything and start worrying about right wing violence.

Really?

You didn't actually rebut anything put forth in the report. It just wasn't immediately what you wanted to hear, so you dismissed it on a source-level. That's the easy way out. I could have done the same thing with TS's Washington Examiner article but instead I looked into it and demonstrated exactly why it was incorrect.

My reference comes from what claims to be a bi-partisan think tank, and its chairman of the board is a billionaire who has made several donations to Republican candidates over a period of decades. But that's all irrelevant if you can't dissect what is actually incorrect about the report.

I don't know what the solution to the Antifa problem is, but sending federal troops to Portland certainly didn't help. People are angry at a culmination of problems and the rage has now boiled over out of the pot. The interesting thing is that a number of people from all walks of life are all joining in the protests and collectively being branded as "Antifa," which is another reason why its hard to simply label everybody involved as "terrorists" (though it certainly would be easy, wouldn't it).

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Quote from: Barnabe on July 23, 2020, 04:47:46 AM

So it's more of a technical/judicial issue, but you agree that they are doing actions similar to terrorist groups.

I would say its actually more of a "Trump rallying his base" issue and like most proclamations Trump has ever made, nothing will become of it.

If you want my opinion: Antifa isn't helping themselves by defacing and damaging property, throwing things at cops or lighting things on fire. And of course I think that's bad, if it really needs to be said. Certainly innocent people/businesses are getting caught up in their antics and they are discrediting their own movement.

I'd say its a little extreme to call them "terrorists" -- if they were conducting bombings, assassinations or kidnappings, then I would be more likely to agree with the label. One guy swinging a hammer at a federal agent isn't enough to sway my opinion.

As a whole, right wing extremists continue to kill more Americans each year than every other type of extremist group - foreign or domestic - combined. Yet for some reason there's not a single mention of them here in this thread (other than by me).

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

Quote

First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.

BTW, incels are responsible for more deaths in just 1 attack than all Antifa "attacks" combined, ever. They should probably be designated a terrorist organization as well.

The problem with your reference is that it reads like, and is in fact, a cookbook answer provided to you and others to rebut anti-Antifa arguments, such as you are here doing it it.

That doesn't make it sensible, logical, true, or useful. It could be a pack of lies. In fact, that is the way it looks to me. For example, check this out -

"One of the most concerning is the 2020 U.S. presidential election, before and after which extremists may resort to violence, depending on the outcome of the election. Far-right and far-left networks have used violence against each other at protests, raising the possibility of escalating violence during the election period."

So after 59 days (I think) of left wing anarchist violence in multiple locations we should stop everything and start worrying about right wing violence.

Really?

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Quote from: TECSHARE on July 23, 2020, 06:44:25 AM

Quote from: nutildah on July 23, 2020, 06:28:31 AM

You posted that already, and it doesn't disprove my statement. No government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization," not even the FBI, ATF, CIA, or NSA.

"Antifa officially declared a terrorist group by New Jersey's Homeland Security office"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/new-jerseys-homeland-security-office-declares-antifa-a-terrorist-group

LOL bro.

That's an article from July 2017, and the NJ HS office report referenced doesn't once use the word "terrorist" or "terror" or any other derivation of the word. It classifies Antifa as "anarchist extremists." The article is flat out wrong.

More recently:

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-support-violent-tactics

Quote

On May 31, President Donald Trump announced that the US government would designate Antifa as a terrorist organization, although there currently is no domestic terrorism statute that could label it as such.

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Quote from: nutildah on July 23, 2020, 06:28:31 AM

You posted that already, and it doesn't disprove my statement. No government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization," not even the FBI, ATF, CIA, or NSA.

"Antifa officially declared a terrorist group by New Jersey's Homeland Security office"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/new-jerseys-homeland-security-office-declares-antifa-a-terrorist-group

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Quote from: TECSHARE on July 23, 2020, 06:23:36 AM

Quote from: nutildah on July 22, 2020, 11:48:25 PM

None of that has anything to do with the fact that no government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization."

"Feds Have Reportedly Classified Their Activities as 'Domestic Terrorist Violence'"

https://www.newsweek.com/are-antifa-terrorists-658396

You posted that already, and it doesn't disprove my statement. No government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization," not even the FBI, ATF, CIA, or NSA.

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Quote from: nutildah on July 22, 2020, 11:48:25 PM

None of that has anything to do with the fact that no government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization."

"Feds Have Reportedly Classified Their Activities as 'Domestic Terrorist Violence'"

https://www.newsweek.com/are-antifa-terrorists-658396

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Quote from: Barnabe on July 23, 2020, 04:47:46 AM

So it's more of a technical/judicial issue, but you agree that they are doing actions similar to terrorist groups.

I would say its actually more of a "Trump rallying his base" issue and like most proclamations Trump has ever made, nothing will become of it.

If you want my opinion: Antifa isn't helping themselves by defacing and damaging property, throwing things at cops or lighting things on fire. And of course I think that's bad, if it really needs to be said. Certainly innocent people/businesses are getting caught up in their antics and they are discrediting their own movement.

I'd say its a little extreme to call them "terrorists" -- if they were conducting bombings, assassinations or kidnappings, then I would be more likely to agree with the label. One guy swinging a hammer at a federal agent isn't enough to sway my opinion.

As a whole, right wing extremists continue to kill more Americans each year than every other type of extremist group - foreign or domestic - combined. Yet for some reason there's not a single mention of them here in this thread (other than by me).

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

Quote

First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.

BTW, incels are responsible for more deaths in just 1 attack than all Antifa "attacks" combined, ever. They should probably be designated a terrorist organization as well.

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Quote from: nutildah on July 23, 2020, 01:20:30 AM

Quote from: nutildah on July 23, 2020, 01:20:30 AM

Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still.

~~That's better, but it still has the same legal weight and ramifications as me declaring mosquitoes to be terrorists.~~

Actually, let's take a look at what he actually said:

This will require new laws to be written. Currently, domestic groups can't be labeled terrorist organizations.

So it's more of a technical/judicial issue, but you agree that they are doing actions similar to terrorist groups.

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Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still.

~~That's better, but it still has the same legal weight and ramifications as me declaring mosquitoes to be terrorists.~~

Actually, let's take a look at what he actually said:

That's just his fancy way of referring to himself in third person.

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Quote from: Spendulus on June 21, 2020, 09:17:00 PM

Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still.

~~That's better, but it still has the same legal weight and ramifications as me declaring mosquitoes to be terrorists.~~

Actually, let's take a look at what he actually said:

This will require new laws to be written. Currently, domestic groups can't be labeled terrorist organizations. So no, he never even "designated" Antifa as a terrorist organization, nor did anybody else.

I actually pointed this out a month ago:

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: TECSHARE on June 21, 2020, 06:19:55 PM

Quote from: UltimatePro on June 21, 2020, 05:50:05 PM

This was good news. It will weaken it as they won't easily be able to take in donations, and freely do other things. The members will probably shift into BLM though.

Already happening. In typical Marxist SOP, they destroy the image of one organization and shift to the next. ANTIFA are already flying their flags less and less and simply shifting over to infiltrate BLM even more completely.

With Antifa designated Terrorists, of course they would move the next likely target. Kill it, then gut it, skin it, and wear the skin proclaiming to be the real thing.

Trump doesn't have the power to designate Antifa (or any domestic group) as terrorists. Its a non-event that exists only in the minds of Trump and his brainwashed followers.

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Quote from: nutildah on July 22, 2020, 11:48:25 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on July 22, 2020, 11:23:17 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on July 22, 2020, 11:23:17 PM

Exact reason why Antifa was declared a terrorist organization.

Uh, except that didn't happen. Antifa has never been "declared a terrorist organization."

What never surprises me is the reluctance to condemn Antifa behavior by people for the mere fact that Trump is in the picture and takes a strong stance against mob terrorist-like actions by white college aged kids dressed in all black. You get caught up in the declaration of a label more-so than the fact that Antifa has caused over 20 million dollars worth of damage in the last 6 weeks alone and have repeatedly tried to deface federal buildings including numerous attacks on law enforcement and innocent civilians.

But I guess these actions are considered nonevents.

None of that has anything to do with the fact that no government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization."

Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still. If you don't think he has the authority or if he was wrong to use the verbiage of "terrorist" to describe antifa, that's another discussion. Strictly talking on their behavior though, I wouldn't consider terrorist that unreasonable solely based on the violence they're causing in places like Portland. I sure hope you aren't supportive of their causes and recognize that they're an issue because anyone that is neutral about the situation is inclined to believe 20M+ in damages in the last 6 weeks isn't all fine and dandy.

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Exact reason why Antifa was declared a terrorist organization.

Uh, except that didn't happen. Antifa has never been "declared a terrorist organization."

What never surprises me is the reluctance to condemn Antifa behavior by people for the mere fact that Trump is in the picture and takes a strong stance against mob terrorist-like actions by white college aged kids dressed in all black. You get caught up in the declaration of a label more-so than the fact that Antifa has caused over 20 million dollars worth of damage in the last 6 weeks alone and have repeatedly tried to deface federal buildings including numerous attacks on law enforcement and innocent civilians.

But I guess these actions are considered nonevents.

None of that has anything to do with the fact that no government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization."

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Quote from: Spendulus on July 22, 2020, 09:53:56 PM

Exact reason why Antifa was declared a terrorist organization.

Uh, except that didn't happen. Antifa has never been "declared a terrorist organization."

Trump can declare Antifa a terrorist organization like I can declare rare-cooked steak to be gross. Both have zero impact on any sort of legality or standing of anything. This whole thread is based on a non-event, but why let that get in the way of righteous reinforcement of manufactured indignation.

"NRA Accidentally Forgets To Rise Up Against Tyrannical Government"

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/06/04/nra-accidentally-forgets-to-rise-up-against-tyrannical-government

What never surprises me is the reluctance to condemn Antifa behavior by people for the mere fact that Trump is in the picture and takes a strong stance against mob terrorist-like actions by white college aged kids dressed in all black. You get caught up in the declaration of a label more-so than the fact that Antifa has caused over 20 million dollars worth of damage in the last 6 weeks alone and have repeatedly tried to deface federal buildings including numerous attacks on law enforcement and innocent civilians.

But I guess these actions are considered nonevents.

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on July 22, 2020, 06:02:32 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on July 22, 2020, 06:02:32 PM

Exact reason why Antifa was declared a terrorist organization.

Uh, except that didn't happen. Antifa has never been "declared a terrorist organization."

Trump can declare Antifa a terrorist organization like I can declare rare-cooked steak to be gross. Both have zero impact on any sort of legality or standing of anything. This whole thread is based on a non-event, but why let that get in the way of righteous reinforcement of manufactured indignation.

"NRA Accidentally Forgets To Rise Up Against Tyrannical Government"

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/06/04/nra-accidentally-forgets-to-rise-up-against-tyrannical-government

If you believe Trump then anything is possible and comes with plenty of click bait to show as proof to the poor fools who suffer from TDS.

If you believe ORANGEMANBAD then

Russia, Mueller, Impeachment, Antifa Good, ...

But who's pulling your strings? Who has made a puppet out of you?

(Twitch don't need to answer, he done been figured out)

The idea that someone who thinks Trump is bad must also think Antifa is good is a pretty good political message for Trump to keep repeating as the election gets closer. Part of the "I am good they are bad, if I lose the country will be destroyed" mantra. Antifa has basically become a tool for Trump to label all who are against him and then openly attack.

Only minimal critical thinking skills are needed to realize how ridiculous this is - but people with those skills mostly have TDS now.

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In fact Antifa is a left-wing anti-fascist and Nazi protesters movement opposed to capitalism, neoliberalism and the extreme right as defined in the Wikipedia encyclopedia, and since Trump is an extreme right-wing, it is not surprising that he describes them as a terrorist organization.
In fact, Trump does not describe Antifa only as terrorist, but any organization that opposes Trump's plans and interests. In his view, it is terrorism. This is not only Trump's policy but it is the policy of the United States in general, they use these designations as they like, for example the United States was supporting the organization Al Qaeda when it was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan and did not call it a terrorist, but when the Soviet Union disintegrated the United States began fighting Al Qaeda and calling it a terrorist organization.

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Exact reason why Antifa was declared a terrorist organization.

Uh, except that didn't happen. Antifa has never been "declared a terrorist organization."

Trump can declare Antifa a terrorist organization like I can declare rare-cooked steak to be gross. Both have zero impact on any sort of legality or standing of anything. This whole thread is based on a non-event, but why let that get in the way of righteous reinforcement of manufactured indignation.

"NRA Accidentally Forgets To Rise Up Against Tyrannical Government"

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/06/04/nra-accidentally-forgets-to-rise-up-against-tyrannical-government

If you believe Trump then anything is possible and comes with plenty of click bait to show as proof to the poor fools who suffer from TDS.

If you believe ORANGEMANBAD then

Russia, Mueller, Impeachment, Antifa Good, ...

But who's pulling your strings? Who has made a puppet out of you?

(Twitch don't need to answer, he done been figured out)

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