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Topic: Tyson Fury vs Francis Ngannou Boxing October 28 - page 3. (Read 4444 times)

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Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.

Why not go directly against popular heavyweight boxers like Joshua and Wilder, for instance? I mean, if Ngannou almost beat Fury, I'm sure he can compete well against boxers who have a lower ranking compared to Fury. However, if what you stated is true that Fury trained at McDonald's in that certain fight, then I guess Ngannou was just overrated.

Pretty sure Ngannou will only look for the next biggest offer. A lot of promoters are negotiating. Promoters are racing who gets him first. It seems like they are looking at Ngannou as easy money for their fighters. Cheesy
With what Ngannou did to fury that he almost beat the champ, people would expect to see him fight more if that rematch will not happen anytime sooner. I feel that even Ngannou just recently make his debut in boxing, he will be a problem to the active boxers, so a big name in boxing against him will certainly make a lot of money for promoters.
I like Ngannou and I am hoping he's for real. But until I see him deliver another impressive performance in boxing I am still not buying. I still believe unheralded and old fighters like Chisora will beat him.

But I like Ngannou countering Wilder by saying that he will fight him if they have a 2-fight contract, 1 in boxing and the other 1 in MMA. I can only hope that there are willing sponsors for an MMA fight, otherwise, Ngannou will be forced to only box Wilder. But there's also AJ and the potential Usyk-Fury winner.
That's not gonna happen, and besides, if they'll fight in boxing, they will make way bigger money compared to what they'll make in UFC. a 2 fight contract is okay though, but it should be both in boxing, that way they'll increse their income especially if the first fight is a close one.

We'll see, maybe Saudi or a group of investors are willing to shed money for an MMA fight. And Wilder actually said that he is thinking of fighting in MMA.

So far Ngannou is planning to make his PFL debut and then back into boxing. He really wants a Fury rematch even sending a message requesting Usyk to step aside. I doubt the Ukrainian will even care to respond though, Ngannou is a just nuisance to him.

He should focus in boxing as that's where he'll make a lot of money, and he has to be patient though, Usyk won't step aside as he'll also make a lot of money with his unification fight with Fury.

Absolutely, there is no way Usyk gives in. I can't even see any posts or interviews of him responding to Ngannou's request to step aside. As for Ngannou, he's got a contract with PFL. Maybe he'll just cherry-pick a weak opponent to make sure his hype won't fade.

The scorecard that has to be the most dubious is the one that scored 96/93 in favour of Fury.

I reviewed the scorecards again based only on the second and the third judge. Out of the 10 rounds, they only disagreed 3 times, in rounds 1, 4, and 7 which means these rounds were somewhat close and difficult to score. They both gave Fury rounds 2, 5, 6 and 9. Ngannou got 3, 8 and 10. So if in case these two judges gave all the disputed rounds to Fury, it'll be 96-93 in favor of the champion.
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Recent news about Ngannou, apparently he rejected an offer to fight Anthony Joshua in December and would rather sit out and wait for a rematch with Fury. I was surprised at first but I kind of understand that. Fury is very likely to accept the rematch after fighting Usyk, and it's guaranteed to be a big money fight (especially if Fury manages to win with Usyk and unify the belts). But if Ngannou was to accept Joshua fight (likely for much less money) and if he was dominated or KOed, the chances of rematch with Fury would get much slimmer.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24674760/francis-ngannou-anthony-joshua-fight-december-ufc-next-opponent/

Hearn was probably just looking for publicity and it wasn’t really a serious offer he made to Ngannou. Using other fighter’s names to grab headlines is his favorite tactic. He wants some of that Saudi money so he will try to hype up Anthony Joshua any way he can. He’s been talking about AJ vs Wilder forever and also AJ vs Fury but has been unable to make either of those happen.
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AJ seems a good opportunity for Francis. He has been shutting up opportunities for him to make big money and chase a lost fight. It doesn't matter whether he gets a rematch or not, he proved himself that he can fight in boxing that's the very point of him getting out of UFC.  So right now he is willing to wait while Fury will just lay around with his 50M and if he won't fight up to 5 years, Francis will just waste his only years left.
Fury won't relax for that long, he is used to making big bucks in boxing, so he'll maximize the opportunity to make more money while he is still on his prime. He might not fight Francis soon but he would sure get bigger fights especially if he'll beat Usyk.

With the controversial decision, I don't think Fury will ever give him the rematch, Fury will just laugh at him. I thought it was fixed already that he will be fighting this Dec with either AJ or Wilder.

There's no fix decision yet, all of what we read could only be rumors, Usyk isn't 100% yet and Fury probably on the healing period now.

AJ vs Wilder, I think they could fight as they haven't been busy lately, but the unification is going to be next year for Usyk and Fury.
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Yep, i got the point. In general, I initially understood this, but this does not mean that I agree with it so wanted to discuss it. For me this is illogical and opens up scope for manipulation. It would be strange if in football the score in the first half was 3-0 and the score in the second half was 0-1 and the final score was the same, but in boxing this is possible. And I also know that all judges interpret body blows differently, not all consider them to be “real” blows.

Yes, there's a lot of room for manipulation and we've seen some outrageous decisions in the past, but this system is still best than any other.
As for boxing and football, they are hardly comparable, as I mentioned before, landing a punch just for the sake of it should not be the goal. Punches must be effective and cause damage.


Recent news about Ngannou, apparently he rejected an offer to fight Anthony Joshua in December and would rather sit out and wait for a rematch with Fury. I was surprised at first but I kind of understand that. Fury is very likely to accept the rematch after fighting Usyk, and it's guaranteed to be a big money fight (especially if Fury manages to win with Usyk and unify the belts). But if Ngannou was to accept Joshua fight (likely for much less money) and if he was dominated or KOed, the chances of rematch with Fury would get much slimmer.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24674760/francis-ngannou-anthony-joshua-fight-december-ufc-next-opponent/

AJ seems a good opportunity for Francis. He has been shutting up opportunities for him to make big money and chase a lost fight. It doesn't matter whether he gets a rematch or not, he proved himself that he can fight in boxing that's the very point of him getting out of UFC.  So right now he is willing to wait while Fury will just lay around with his 50M and if he won't fight up to 5 years, Francis will just waste his only years left.

With the controversial decision, I don't think Fury will ever give him the rematch, Fury will just laugh at him. I thought it was fixed already that he will be fighting this Dec with either AJ or Wilder.
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Yep, i got the point. In general, I initially understood this, but this does not mean that I agree with it so wanted to discuss it. For me this is illogical and opens up scope for manipulation. It would be strange if in football the score in the first half was 3-0 and the score in the second half was 0-1 and the final score was the same, but in boxing this is possible. And I also know that all judges interpret body blows differently, not all consider them to be “real” blows.

Yes, there's a lot of room for manipulation and we've seen some outrageous decisions in the past, but this system is still best than any other.
As for boxing and football, they are hardly comparable, as I mentioned before, landing a punch just for the sake of it should not be the goal. Punches must be effective and cause damage.


Recent news about Ngannou, apparently he rejected an offer to fight Anthony Joshua in December and would rather sit out and wait for a rematch with Fury. I was surprised at first but I kind of understand that. Fury is very likely to accept the rematch after fighting Usyk, and it's guaranteed to be a big money fight (especially if Fury manages to win with Usyk and unify the belts). But if Ngannou was to accept Joshua fight (likely for much less money) and if he was dominated or KOed, the chances of rematch with Fury would get much slimmer.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24674760/francis-ngannou-anthony-joshua-fight-december-ufc-next-opponent/

I thought that the fight that is being work here is AJ vs Fury, and it is supposedly to be as the undercard in the Fury vs Usyk fight in December. So I'm just surprised that the camp of AJ will suddenly offer a fight against Ngannou as it is a big risk low reward for them. Francis has also the power and it's very hard to see AJ dominating this fight as he has problems with Ruiz a big heavy hitter in their first fight.

https://www.boxingnews24.com/2023/11/deontay-wilder-wants-meeting-with-anthony-joshua-to-put-fight-together/

Quote
Deontay Wilder says he wants to travel to England to meet with Anthony Joshua to put together a mega-fight with him. He says he knows that Joshua is “afraid” of him, but he still feels that he can reason to make him understand that their clash is the “biggest fight in the world.”
legendary
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Yep, i got the point. In general, I initially understood this, but this does not mean that I agree with it so wanted to discuss it. For me this is illogical and opens up scope for manipulation. It would be strange if in football the score in the first half was 3-0 and the score in the second half was 0-1 and the final score was the same, but in boxing this is possible. And I also know that all judges interpret body blows differently, not all consider them to be “real” blows.

Yes, there's a lot of room for manipulation and we've seen some outrageous decisions in the past, but this system is still best than any other.
As for boxing and football, they are hardly comparable, as I mentioned before, landing a punch just for the sake of it should not be the goal. Punches must be effective and cause damage.


Recent news about Ngannou, apparently he rejected an offer to fight Anthony Joshua in December and would rather sit out and wait for a rematch with Fury. I was surprised at first but I kind of understand that. Fury is very likely to accept the rematch after fighting Usyk, and it's guaranteed to be a big money fight (especially if Fury manages to win with Usyk and unify the belts). But if Ngannou was to accept Joshua fight (likely for much less money) and if he was dominated or KOed, the chances of rematch with Fury would get much slimmer.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24674760/francis-ngannou-anthony-joshua-fight-december-ufc-next-opponent/
legendary
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So it turns out that if one boxer threw 100 punches and the other zero, but was able to stay on his feet, then the score will only be 10-9 in favor of the first boxer?

Depends. As far as I know a round could be scored 10-8 even if there was no knock-down, if one of the fighters was totally dominating and dealing a lot of damage and if it was a one-sided performance and/or the other fighter was clearly saved by the bell from getting KOed.
Looking only at the number of punches landed could turn boxing into some bizzare match when boxers are focussed on touching the opponent with large volume of zero-power punches just so they could "land" it.
We have this score systems for a reason, even if sometimes it seems unfair.

Yep, i got the point. In general, I initially understood this, but this does not mean that I agree with it so wanted to discuss it. For me this is illogical and opens up scope for manipulation. It would be strange if in football the score in the first half was 3-0 and the score in the second half was 0-1 and the final score was the same, but in boxing this is possible. And I also know that all judges interpret body blows differently, not all consider them to be “real” blows.
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Times has really change isn't it, I remember way back when we can't watch the fight live and it's always delayed in our country. The only way to known the score is to tune in in the old and traditional way, radio.
Yes, times really have changed because nowadays you're able to watch the fight live and watch highlights as often as you would like to thanks to the internet. The days of radio are not fully in the past because it still does have usage in certain situations.

Here are the official scorecards. There are 5 rounds where the judges did not have the same assessment while in another 5 rounds, they unanimously agreed to each other.



Here is the punch stats of this fight. Maybe it helps in assessing the fight. Based on the stats I had it 95-94 for Fury.
The scorecard that has to be the most dubious is the one that scored 96/93 in favour of Fury.
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Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.

Why not go directly against popular heavyweight boxers like Joshua and Wilder, for instance? I mean, if Ngannou almost beat Fury, I'm sure he can compete well against boxers who have a lower ranking compared to Fury. However, if what you stated is true that Fury trained at McDonald's in that certain fight, then I guess Ngannou was just overrated.

Pretty sure Ngannou will only look for the next biggest offer. A lot of promoters are negotiating. Promoters are racing who gets him first. It seems like they are looking at Ngannou as easy money for their fighters. Cheesy
With what Ngannou did to fury that he almost beat the champ, people would expect to see him fight more if that rematch will not happen anytime sooner. I feel that even Ngannou just recently make his debut in boxing, he will be a problem to the active boxers, so a big name in boxing against him will certainly make a lot of money for promoters.

But I like Ngannou countering Wilder by saying that he will fight him if they have a 2-fight contract, 1 in boxing and the other 1 in MMA. I can only hope that there are willing sponsors for an MMA fight, otherwise, Ngannou will be forced to only box Wilder. But there's also AJ and the potential Usyk-Fury winner.
That's not gonna happen, and besides, if they'll fight in boxing, they will make way bigger money compared to what they'll make in UFC. a 2 fight contract is okay though, but it should be both in boxing, that way they'll increse their income especially if the first fight is a close one.



So far Ngannou is planning to make his PFL debut and then back into boxing. He really wants a Fury rematch even sending a message requesting Usyk to step aside. I doubt the Ukrainian will even care to respond though, Ngannou is a just nuisance to him.

He should focus in boxing as that's where he'll make a lot of money, and he has to be patient though, Usyk won't step aside as he'll also make a lot of money with his unification fight with Fury.
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Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.

Why not go directly against popular heavyweight boxers like Joshua and Wilder, for instance? I mean, if Ngannou almost beat Fury, I'm sure he can compete well against boxers who have a lower ranking compared to Fury. However, if what you stated is true that Fury trained at McDonald's in that certain fight, then I guess Ngannou was just overrated.

Pretty sure Ngannou will only look for the next biggest offer. A lot of promoters are negotiating. Promoters are racing who gets him first. It seems like they are looking at Ngannou as easy money for their fighters. Cheesy

But I like Ngannou countering Wilder by saying that he will fight him if they have a 2-fight contract, 1 in boxing and the other 1 in MMA. I can only hope that there are willing sponsors for an MMA fight, otherwise, Ngannou will be forced to only box Wilder. But there's also AJ and the potential Usyk-Fury winner.

So far Ngannou is planning to make his PFL debut and then back into boxing. He really wants a Fury rematch even sending a message requesting Usyk to step aside. I doubt the Ukrainian will even care to respond though, Ngannou is a just nuisance to him.
legendary
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Never seen someone got 7 points for a round. It must be completely punching bag or a guy whos corner is about to throw a towel. Btw, if you remember Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder first fight, Tyson was knocked down in last round also, and judges also scored that as 8-10. So 8-10 is a correct judgement for this fight. But dont try to find much login in boxing scoring, as this is one of most corrupted sports Cheesy

A round would be scored 10-8 if there is one knock-down and 10-7 if there are 2 knockdowns, so it's not that uncommon. I'm not sure if it can be scored lower than 7. Usually the fight would be ended after a 3rd knockdown in the same round, but maybe if there's a foul, for which the point is deducted. I've no idea what's the lowest it could go.

Boxing scoring rules are fairly logical but whether referees are using them as they should, is a completely different story.
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Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.

Why not go directly against popular heavyweight boxers like Joshua and Wilder, for instance? I mean, if Ngannou almost beat Fury, I'm sure he can compete well against boxers who have a lower ranking compared to Fury. However, if what you stated is true that Fury trained at McDonald's in that certain fight, then I guess Ngannou was just overrated.
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If I'm not mistaken, there is also a huge mistake in the first Pacquaio vs Marquez fight, my recollection is that Manny scored 3 knockdown in the first round and the score should be 10-7. And if the judges score the fight correct, Manny could have won that first fight.
No the score should be 10-6, while one of the judges missed the count of the knockdowns so he only scored 10-7.

Refer to my post above, I have shared the article of that specific fight with complete information.

There should have been a protest, and Manny should have been declared the winner since it's automatic that the scoring should be 10-6 when there are 3 knockdowns in a round. Team Marquez could not counter-protest that, but what's done is done. Manny was still the better fighter in terms of overall accomplishments in boxing, despite Marquez retiring after he knocked Pacman out cold and not giving a rematch.

Pacman should've won that fight but a protest wouldn't change the result. Basically, rules state that 3 knockdowns is a 10-6 except that it is not guaranteed. If a judge believes that the fighter is losing the round without the knockdowns then he can make it a 10-7.

Anyway, it is time to move on from these fights. The fight was close. Overall Fury landed more but Ngannou landed more power punches. I would've loved Ngannou winning but it'll be odd if Fury the champion loses in a highly disputed fight.

Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.
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If I'm not mistaken, there is also a huge mistake in the first Pacquaio vs Marquez fight, my recollection is that Manny scored 3 knockdown in the first round and the score should be 10-7. And if the judges score the fight correct, Manny could have won that first fight.
No the score should be 10-6, while one of the judges missed the count of the knockdowns so he only scored 10-7.

Refer to my post above, I have shared the article of that specific fight with complete information.

There should have been a protest, and Manny should have been declared the winner since it's automatic that the scoring should be 10-6 when there are 3 knockdowns in a round. Team Marquez could not counter-protest that, but what's done is done. Manny was still the better fighter in terms of overall accomplishments in boxing, despite Marquez retiring after he knocked Pacman out cold and not giving a rematch.
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If I'm not mistaken, there is also a huge mistake in the first Pacquaio vs Marquez fight, my recollection is that Manny scored 3 knockdown in the first round and the score should be 10-7. And if the judges score the fight correct, Manny could have won that first fight.
No the score should be 10-6, while one of the judges missed the count of the knockdowns so he only scored 10-7.

Refer to my post above, I have shared the article of that specific fight with complete information.
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Never seen someone got 7 points for a round. It must be completely punching bag or a guy whos corner is about to throw a towel. Btw, if you remember Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder first fight, Tyson was knocked down in last round also, and judges also scored that as 8-10. So 8-10 is a correct judgement for this fight. But dont try to find much login in boxing scoring, as this is one of most corrupted sports Cheesy

If I'm not mistaken, there is also a huge mistake in the first Pacquaio vs Marquez fight, my recollection is that Manny scored 3 knockdown in the first round and the score should be 10-7. And if the judges score the fight correct, Manny could have won that first fight.

Anyhow, I would agree that the judges in boxing could be one of the most corrupt. Even in Olympics we have seen biased scoring as far as my memory, like the Roy Jones lost to a Korean.

And so with this result, another fight is again is on the way the judges score, putting them in the microscope. But I doubt that there will be changes and this judges will continue to score many fights again.
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Never seen someone got 7 points for a round. It must be completely punching bag or a guy whos corner is about to throw a towel. Btw, if you remember Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder first fight, Tyson was knocked down in last round also, and judges also scored that as 8-10. So 8-10 is a correct judgement for this fight. But dont try to find much login in boxing scoring, as this is one of most corrupted sports Cheesy
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So it turns out that if one boxer threw 100 punches and the other zero, but was able to stay on his feet, then the score will only be 10-9 in favor of the first boxer?

Depends. As far as I know a round could be scored 10-8 even if there was no knock-down, if one of the fighters was totally dominating and dealing a lot of damage and if it was a one-sided performance and/or the other fighter was clearly saved by the bell from getting KOed.
Looking only at the number of punches landed could turn boxing into some bizzare match when boxers are focussed on touching the opponent with large volume of zero-power punches just so they could "land" it.
We have this score systems for a reason, even if sometimes it seems unfair.
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Why are we making this discussion complicated? The rules have already been laid out, and based on the explanation, Ngannou would have had to knock down Fury twice in order to score a 10-7 in a specific round. Since that didn't happen, the score only settles on 10-8. What's hard to understand about that?
~

So it turns out that if one boxer threw 100 punches and the other zero, but was able to stay on his feet, then the score will only be 10-9 in favor of the first boxer?
No, because referee would not allow to go that far, the fact that one boxer is not throwing punches, that means he is not competiting, which I guess would merit to a decision by a TKO win on the boxer that has been throwing punches.

I am interested in this question regardless of the Fury-Ngannou fight. I think this rule (if it really works like that) is delusional. This means a fight (let’s imagine a fight of two rounds) where first one boxer took the round with a score of 10-9 (in terms of blows, the score was, for example, 8-5), and then the other boxer with a score of 9-10 (in terms of blows, the score was 0-100) should be considered equal?  Roll Eyes

The rule states that the best score the winner of the round can get is only 10-9 in their favor if there's no knockdown.

Please check the scorecards for the Mayweather vs. Pacquiao and Mayweather vs. Canelo fights below. Both of those fights were won by Mayweather via unanimous decision, and if you examine the scorecards, you'll see that the scores are always 10-9.

https://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1807615/Screen_Shot_2013-09-15_at_1.52.35_AM.png
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-3065922/Floyd-Mayweather-vs-Manny-Pacquiao-fight-scorecard-Official-round-round-boxing-stats-compared-Jeff-Powell-s-verdict.html

A 10-8 score is only possible if an opposing fighter goes down once, 10-7 if they go down twice, and 10-6 if it happens three times.

A good example is the first fight between Pacquiao and Marquez, which ended in a draw because one of the judges mistakenly only counted 2 knockdowns instead of 3, and he scored it as 10-7 instead of 10-6. You can read the full story here.

Quote
Judges Guy Jutras and John Stewart scored it as a 10-6 round for Pacquiao. However, judge Burt Clements’ scorecard had a 10-7 round for Pacquiao. Indeed, Clements made an unforgivable mistake by counting two knockdowns instead of three.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/932026-pacquiao-vs-marquez-how-was-marquez-able-to-earn-a-draw-against-pac-man
legendary
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Why are we making this discussion complicated? The rules have already been laid out, and based on the explanation, Ngannou would have had to knock down Fury twice in order to score a 10-7 in a specific round. Since that didn't happen, the score only settles on 10-8. What's hard to understand about that?
~

So it turns out that if one boxer threw 100 punches and the other zero, but was able to stay on his feet, then the score will only be 10-9 in favor of the first boxer? I am interested in this question regardless of the Fury-Ngannou fight. I think this rule (if it really works like that) is delusional. This means a fight (let’s imagine a fight of two rounds) where first one boxer took the round with a score of 10-9 (in terms of blows, the score was, for example, 8-5), and then the other boxer with a score of 9-10 (in terms of blows, the score was 0-100) should be considered equal?  Roll Eyes
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