Tyson Fury vs Francis Ngannou Boxing October 28 - page 3.

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Quote from: Kemarit on November 04, 2023, 06:16:45 PM

Times has really change isn't it, I remember way back when we can't watch the fight live and it's always delayed in our country. The only way to known the score is to tune in in the old and traditional way, radio.

Yes, times really have changed because nowadays you're able to watch the fight live and watch highlights as often as you would like to thanks to the internet. The days of radio are not fully in the past because it still does have usage in certain situations.

Quote from: inthelongrun on November 05, 2023, 01:57:52 AM

Here are the official scorecards. There are 5 rounds where the judges did not have the same assessment while in another 5 rounds, they unanimously agreed to each other.

Here is the punch stats of this fight. Maybe it helps in assessing the fight. Based on the stats I had it 95-94 for Fury.

The scorecard that has to be the most dubious is the one that scored 96/93 in favour of Fury.

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Quote from: inthelongrun on November 08, 2023, 08:46:02 AM

Quote from: Hypnosis00 on November 07, 2023, 10:05:21 AM

Quote from: inthelongrun on November 07, 2023, 08:04:27 AM

Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.

Why not go directly against popular heavyweight boxers like Joshua and Wilder, for instance? I mean, if Ngannou almost beat Fury, I'm sure he can compete well against boxers who have a lower ranking compared to Fury. However, if what you stated is true that Fury trained at McDonald's in that certain fight, then I guess Ngannou was just overrated.

Pretty sure Ngannou will only look for the next biggest offer. A lot of promoters are negotiating. Promoters are racing who gets him first. It seems like they are looking at Ngannou as easy money for their fighters. Cheesy

With what Ngannou did to fury that he almost beat the champ, people would expect to see him fight more if that rematch will not happen anytime sooner. I feel that even Ngannou just recently make his debut in boxing, he will be a problem to the active boxers, so a big name in boxing against him will certainly make a lot of money for promoters.

Quote from: inthelongrun on November 08, 2023, 08:46:02 AM

But I like Ngannou countering Wilder by saying that he will fight him if they have a 2-fight contract, 1 in boxing and the other 1 in MMA. I can only hope that there are willing sponsors for an MMA fight, otherwise, Ngannou will be forced to only box Wilder. But there's also AJ and the potential Usyk-Fury winner.

That's not gonna happen, and besides, if they'll fight in boxing, they will make way bigger money compared to what they'll make in UFC. a 2 fight contract is okay though, but it should be both in boxing, that way they'll increse their income especially if the first fight is a close one.

Quote from: inthelongrun on November 08, 2023, 08:46:02 AM

So far Ngannou is planning to make his PFL debut and then back into boxing. He really wants a Fury rematch even sending a message requesting Usyk to step aside. I doubt the Ukrainian will even care to respond though, Ngannou is a just nuisance to him.

He should focus in boxing as that's where he'll make a lot of money, and he has to be patient though, Usyk won't step aside as he'll also make a lot of money with his unification fight with Fury.

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Quote from: Hypnosis00 on November 07, 2023, 10:05:21 AM

Quote from: inthelongrun on November 07, 2023, 08:04:27 AM

Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.

Why not go directly against popular heavyweight boxers like Joshua and Wilder, for instance? I mean, if Ngannou almost beat Fury, I'm sure he can compete well against boxers who have a lower ranking compared to Fury. However, if what you stated is true that Fury trained at McDonald's in that certain fight, then I guess Ngannou was just overrated.

Pretty sure Ngannou will only look for the next biggest offer. A lot of promoters are negotiating. Promoters are racing who gets him first. It seems like they are looking at Ngannou as easy money for their fighters. Cheesy

But I like Ngannou countering Wilder by saying that he will fight him if they have a 2-fight contract, 1 in boxing and the other 1 in MMA. I can only hope that there are willing sponsors for an MMA fight, otherwise, Ngannou will be forced to only box Wilder. But there's also AJ and the potential Usyk-Fury winner.

So far Ngannou is planning to make his PFL debut and then back into boxing. He really wants a Fury rematch even sending a message requesting Usyk to step aside. I doubt the Ukrainian will even care to respond though, Ngannou is a just nuisance to him.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on November 07, 2023, 04:18:33 AM

Never seen someone got 7 points for a round. It must be completely punching bag or a guy whos corner is about to throw a towel. Btw, if you remember Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder first fight, Tyson was knocked down in last round also, and judges also scored that as 8-10. So 8-10 is a correct judgement for this fight. But dont try to find much login in boxing scoring, as this is one of most corrupted sports Cheesy

A round would be scored 10-8 if there is one knock-down and 10-7 if there are 2 knockdowns, so it's not that uncommon. I'm not sure if it can be scored lower than 7. Usually the fight would be ended after a 3rd knockdown in the same round, but maybe if there's a foul, for which the point is deducted. I've no idea what's the lowest it could go.

Boxing scoring rules are fairly logical but whether referees are using them as they should, is a completely different story.

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Quote from: inthelongrun on November 07, 2023, 08:04:27 AM

Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.

Why not go directly against popular heavyweight boxers like Joshua and Wilder, for instance? I mean, if Ngannou almost beat Fury, I'm sure he can compete well against boxers who have a lower ranking compared to Fury. However, if what you stated is true that Fury trained at McDonald's in that certain fight, then I guess Ngannou was just overrated.

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Quote from: stadus on November 07, 2023, 07:25:13 AM

Quote from: Distinctin on November 07, 2023, 06:56:37 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on November 07, 2023, 05:18:22 AM

If I'm not mistaken, there is also a huge mistake in the first Pacquaio vs Marquez fight, my recollection is that Manny scored 3 knockdown in the first round and the score should be 10-7. And if the judges score the fight correct, Manny could have won that first fight.

No the score should be 10-6, while one of the judges missed the count of the knockdowns so he only scored 10-7.

Refer to my post above, I have shared the article of that specific fight with complete information.

There should have been a protest, and Manny should have been declared the winner since it's automatic that the scoring should be 10-6 when there are 3 knockdowns in a round. Team Marquez could not counter-protest that, but what's done is done. Manny was still the better fighter in terms of overall accomplishments in boxing, despite Marquez retiring after he knocked Pacman out cold and not giving a rematch.

Pacman should've won that fight but a protest wouldn't change the result. Basically, rules state that 3 knockdowns is a 10-6 except that it is not guaranteed. If a judge believes that the fighter is losing the round without the knockdowns then he can make it a 10-7.

Anyway, it is time to move on from these fights. The fight was close. Overall Fury landed more but Ngannou landed more power punches. I would've loved Ngannou winning but it'll be odd if Fury the champion loses in a highly disputed fight.

Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.

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Quote from: Distinctin on November 07, 2023, 06:56:37 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on November 07, 2023, 05:18:22 AM

If I'm not mistaken, there is also a huge mistake in the first Pacquaio vs Marquez fight, my recollection is that Manny scored 3 knockdown in the first round and the score should be 10-7. And if the judges score the fight correct, Manny could have won that first fight.

No the score should be 10-6, while one of the judges missed the count of the knockdowns so he only scored 10-7.

Refer to my post above, I have shared the article of that specific fight with complete information.

There should have been a protest, and Manny should have been declared the winner since it's automatic that the scoring should be 10-6 when there are 3 knockdowns in a round. Team Marquez could not counter-protest that, but what's done is done. Manny was still the better fighter in terms of overall accomplishments in boxing, despite Marquez retiring after he knocked Pacman out cold and not giving a rematch.

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Quote from: btc_angela on November 07, 2023, 05:18:22 AM

If I'm not mistaken, there is also a huge mistake in the first Pacquaio vs Marquez fight, my recollection is that Manny scored 3 knockdown in the first round and the score should be 10-7. And if the judges score the fight correct, Manny could have won that first fight.

No the score should be 10-6, while one of the judges missed the count of the knockdowns so he only scored 10-7.

Refer to my post above, I have shared the article of that specific fight with complete information.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on November 07, 2023, 04:18:33 AM

Never seen someone got 7 points for a round. It must be completely punching bag or a guy whos corner is about to throw a towel. Btw, if you remember Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder first fight, Tyson was knocked down in last round also, and judges also scored that as 8-10. So 8-10 is a correct judgement for this fight. But dont try to find much login in boxing scoring, as this is one of most corrupted sports Cheesy

If I'm not mistaken, there is also a huge mistake in the first Pacquaio vs Marquez fight, my recollection is that Manny scored 3 knockdown in the first round and the score should be 10-7. And if the judges score the fight correct, Manny could have won that first fight.

Anyhow, I would agree that the judges in boxing could be one of the most corrupt. Even in Olympics we have seen biased scoring as far as my memory, like the Roy Jones lost to a Korean.

And so with this result, another fight is again is on the way the judges score, putting them in the microscope. But I doubt that there will be changes and this judges will continue to score many fights again.

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Never seen someone got 7 points for a round. It must be completely punching bag or a guy whos corner is about to throw a towel. Btw, if you remember Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder first fight, Tyson was knocked down in last round also, and judges also scored that as 8-10. So 8-10 is a correct judgement for this fight. But dont try to find much login in boxing scoring, as this is one of most corrupted sports Cheesy

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Quote from: KTChampions on November 06, 2023, 08:17:41 AM

So it turns out that if one boxer threw 100 punches and the other zero, but was able to stay on his feet, then the score will only be 10-9 in favor of the first boxer?

Depends. As far as I know a round could be scored 10-8 even if there was no knock-down, if one of the fighters was totally dominating and dealing a lot of damage and if it was a one-sided performance and/or the other fighter was clearly saved by the bell from getting KOed.
Looking only at the number of punches landed could turn boxing into some bizzare match when boxers are focussed on touching the opponent with large volume of zero-power punches just so they could "land" it.
We have this score systems for a reason, even if sometimes it seems unfair.

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Quote from: KTChampions on November 06, 2023, 08:17:41 AM

Quote from: Distinctin on November 06, 2023, 08:10:30 AM

Why are we making this discussion complicated? The rules have already been laid out, and based on the explanation, Ngannou would have had to knock down Fury twice in order to score a 10-7 in a specific round. Since that didn't happen, the score only settles on 10-8. What's hard to understand about that?
~

So it turns out that if one boxer threw 100 punches and the other zero, but was able to stay on his feet, then the score will only be 10-9 in favor of the first boxer?

No, because referee would not allow to go that far, the fact that one boxer is not throwing punches, that means he is not competiting, which I guess would merit to a decision by a TKO win on the boxer that has been throwing punches.

Quote from: KTChampions on November 06, 2023, 08:17:41 AM

I am interested in this question regardless of the Fury-Ngannou fight. I think this rule (if it really works like that) is delusional. This means a fight (let’s imagine a fight of two rounds) where first one boxer took the round with a score of 10-9 (in terms of blows, the score was, for example, 8-5), and then the other boxer with a score of 9-10 (in terms of blows, the score was 0-100) should be considered equal? Roll Eyes

The rule states that the best score the winner of the round can get is only 10-9 in their favor if there's no knockdown.

Please check the scorecards for the Mayweather vs. Pacquiao and Mayweather vs. Canelo fights below. Both of those fights were won by Mayweather via unanimous decision, and if you examine the scorecards, you'll see that the scores are always 10-9.

https://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1807615/Screen_Shot_2013-09-15_at_1.52.35_AM.png
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-3065922/Floyd-Mayweather-vs-Manny-Pacquiao-fight-scorecard-Official-round-round-boxing-stats-compared-Jeff-Powell-s-verdict.html

A 10-8 score is only possible if an opposing fighter goes down once, 10-7 if they go down twice, and 10-6 if it happens three times.

A good example is the first fight between Pacquiao and Marquez, which ended in a draw because one of the judges mistakenly only counted 2 knockdowns instead of 3, and he scored it as 10-7 instead of 10-6. You can read the full story here.

Quote

Judges Guy Jutras and John Stewart scored it as a 10-6 round for Pacquiao. However, judge Burt Clements’ scorecard had a 10-7 round for Pacquiao. Indeed, Clements made an unforgivable mistake by counting two knockdowns instead of three.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/932026-pacquiao-vs-marquez-how-was-marquez-able-to-earn-a-draw-against-pac-man

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Quote from: Distinctin on November 06, 2023, 08:10:30 AM

Why are we making this discussion complicated? The rules have already been laid out, and based on the explanation, Ngannou would have had to knock down Fury twice in order to score a 10-7 in a specific round. Since that didn't happen, the score only settles on 10-8. What's hard to understand about that?
~

So it turns out that if one boxer threw 100 punches and the other zero, but was able to stay on his feet, then the score will only be 10-9 in favor of the first boxer? I am interested in this question regardless of the Fury-Ngannou fight. I think this rule (if it really works like that) is delusional. This means a fight (let’s imagine a fight of two rounds) where first one boxer took the round with a score of 10-9 (in terms of blows, the score was, for example, 8-5), and then the other boxer with a score of 9-10 (in terms of blows, the score was 0-100) should be considered equal? Roll Eyes

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Why are we making this discussion complicated? The rules have already been laid out, and based on the explanation, Ngannou would have had to knock down Fury twice in order to score a 10-7 in a specific round. Since that didn't happen, the score only settles on 10-8. What's hard to understand about that?

I know the outcome was very controversial, and many fans are unhappy with the result, perhaps including some of the forum members here. But all we can do now is hope for a rematch to settle this speculation once and for all.

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The only answer for this controversial fight is to have a rematch once again and surely it will gonna be a blockbuster but I don't know if that's gonna happen again because it was a huge sponsorship because it happens in Saudi Arabia nevertheless if the fans wanted to see that fight, they will find a way to make it happen. Right now the result of the fight is still not convincing for many because of how close and the judges are not unanimous in their decisions. If only they can make it as soon as possible, this debate will surely come to a conclusion because Francis will not let the judges rob him once again.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on November 05, 2023, 09:01:12 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on November 05, 2023, 07:37:09 AM

Questionable criteria (I’m not at all sure that they are applied as you highlighted). Assuming this is the case, then let's say a round where one boxer threw 100 punches and another zero would be counted as only 10-9 if the second boxer (with zero punches) was able to stay on his feet? You understand that this is absurd?
Fury landed just one punch in the third round. It's 8-10 automatically. Plus a knockdown, it should be 7-10.

Your criteria is even more absurd because in your hypothetical scenario a fighter could win a single round 10-0 and then run around the other 9 rounds doing next to nothing and still win by only losing those 9 rounds by a 9-10 score.

Why are you writing bullshit? I'm talking about a specific rule in effect (or maybe not) about the score 10-7 if there were two knockdowns. It seems extremely dubious to me.

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on November 05, 2023, 09:01:12 PM

Ngannou landed only 7 punches in that third round which is low even for a heavyweight.

Fury landed by round: 11 - 7 - 1 - 6 - 9 - 9 - 5 - 9 - 8 - 6
I see that this is a normal average figure, and not “low”. In general, I don’t care about this circus; I’m just annoyed when the rules justifying controversial decisions are “made up on the fly.” Or when the rules work in one place but not in another.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on November 05, 2023, 09:01:12 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on November 05, 2023, 07:37:09 AM

Questionable criteria (I’m not at all sure that they are applied as you highlighted). Assuming this is the case, then let's say a round where one boxer threw 100 punches and another zero would be counted as only 10-9 if the second boxer (with zero punches) was able to stay on his feet? You understand that this is absurd?
Fury landed just one punch in the third round. It's 8-10 automatically. Plus a knockdown, it should be 7-10.

Your criteria is even more absurd because in your hypothetical scenario a fighter could win a single round 10-0 and then run around the other 9 rounds doing next to nothing and still win by only losing those 9 rounds by a 9-10 score.

It is possible for judges to give a fighter less points than 9 without a knockdown but the circumstances have to be extraordinary. Ngannou landed only 7 punches in that third round which is low even for a heavyweight. He was dominant but not so thoroughly dominant that the score should have been wider. Fury was able to stand back up and shake off the cobwebs. He was stunned but not so badly hurt that a stoppage might have been considered.

Ngannou dominated the 3rd round but that doesn't merit a 10-7.

Right. A fighter can possibly get a 10-8 even without a knockdown provided he battered his opponent from pillar to post. And another thing, even if a fighter can score a knockdown but was losing prior to and after the knockdown and is constantly hit by power punches and significant jabs he may end up getting only a 10-9 instead of 10-8. A referee can also make a standing 8-count even without a knockdown if he thinks the battered fighter needs to be counted and re-assessed.

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Quote from: KTChampions on November 05, 2023, 07:37:09 AM

Questionable criteria (I’m not at all sure that they are applied as you highlighted). Assuming this is the case, then let's say a round where one boxer threw 100 punches and another zero would be counted as only 10-9 if the second boxer (with zero punches) was able to stay on his feet? You understand that this is absurd?
Fury landed just one punch in the third round. It's 8-10 automatically. Plus a knockdown, it should be 7-10.

Your criteria is even more absurd because in your hypothetical scenario a fighter could win a single round 10-0 and then run around the other 9 rounds doing next to nothing and still win by only losing those 9 rounds by a 9-10 score.

It is possible for judges to give a fighter less points than 9 without a knockdown but the circumstances have to be extraordinary. Ngannou landed only 7 punches in that third round which is low even for a heavyweight. He was dominant but not so thoroughly dominant that the score should have been wider. Fury was able to stand back up and shake off the cobwebs. He was stunned but not so badly hurt that a stoppage might have been considered.

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Quote from: Yamifoud on November 05, 2023, 07:26:31 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on November 05, 2023, 05:42:01 AM

I wonder how one could interpret the statistics of the third round as 8-10? Isn't that 7 - 10? Moreover, if the judges had scored 7-10, then as a result of a split decision, the victory would have gone to Ngannou.

It was already explained by the poster prior to your post.

Quote from: mirakal on November 03, 2023, 06:32:26 PM

The scoring is not only decided in one round, Ngannou obviously won that round but it was only a 10-8 score in favor of him.

Let's take a look how it's scored in boxing here.

Quote

For each knockdown in a round, the judge deducts an additional point from the fighter knocked down, resulting in a 10–8 score if there is one knockdown or a 10–7 score if there are two knockdowns.

You see, when Fury went down once, the score was 10-8. If he had gone down twice, it would have been 10-7.

Questionable criteria (I’m not at all sure that they are applied as you highlighted). Assuming this is the case, then let's say a round where one boxer threw 100 punches and another zero would be counted as only 10-9 if the second boxer (with zero punches) was able to stay on his feet? You understand that this is absurd?
Fury landed just one punch in the third round. It's 8-10 automatically. Plus a knockdown, it should be 7-10.

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Quote from: KTChampions on November 05, 2023, 05:42:01 AM

I wonder how one could interpret the statistics of the third round as 8-10? Isn't that 7 - 10? Moreover, if the judges had scored 7-10, then as a result of a split decision, the victory would have gone to Ngannou.

It was already explained by the poster prior to your post.

Quote from: mirakal on November 03, 2023, 06:32:26 PM

The scoring is not only decided in one round, Ngannou obviously won that round but it was only a 10-8 score in favor of him.

Let's take a look how it's scored in boxing here.

Quote

For each knockdown in a round, the judge deducts an additional point from the fighter knocked down, resulting in a 10–8 score if there is one knockdown or a 10–7 score if there are two knockdowns.

You see, when Fury went down once, the score was 10-8. If he had gone down twice, it would have been 10-7.

Now, everything is clear. We're only considering the round when Fury went down. What about the later rounds when his jabs were very effective, and Ngannou wasn't throwing many effective punches?

Topic: Tyson Fury vs Francis Ngannou Boxing October 28 - page 3. (Read 4008 times)