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Topic: Tyson Fury vs Francis Ngannou Boxing October 28 - page 4. (Read 4444 times)

hero member
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Why are we making this discussion complicated? The rules have already been laid out, and based on the explanation, Ngannou would have had to knock down Fury twice in order to score a 10-7 in a specific round. Since that didn't happen, the score only settles on 10-8. What's hard to understand about that?

I know the outcome was very controversial, and many fans are unhappy with the result, perhaps including some of the forum members here. But all we can do now is hope for a rematch to settle this speculation once and for all.
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The only answer for this controversial fight is to have a rematch once again and surely it will gonna be a blockbuster but I don't know if that's gonna happen again because it was a huge sponsorship because it happens in Saudi Arabia nevertheless if the fans wanted to see that fight, they will find a way to make it happen. Right now the result of the fight is still not convincing for many because of how close and the judges are not unanimous in their decisions. If only they can make it as soon as possible, this debate will surely come to a conclusion because Francis will not let the judges rob him once again.
legendary
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Questionable criteria (I’m not at all sure that they are applied as you highlighted). Assuming this is the case, then let's say a round where one boxer threw 100 punches and another zero would be counted as only 10-9 if the second boxer (with zero punches) was able to stay on his feet? You understand that this is absurd?
Fury landed just one punch in the third round. It's 8-10 automatically. Plus a knockdown, it should be 7-10.

Your criteria is even more absurd because in your hypothetical scenario a fighter could win a single round 10-0 and then run around the other 9 rounds doing next to nothing and still win by only losing those 9 rounds by a 9-10 score.

Why are you writing bullshit? I'm talking about a specific rule in effect (or maybe not) about the score 10-7 if there were two knockdowns. It seems extremely dubious to me.

Ngannou landed only 7 punches in that third round which is low even for a heavyweight.

Fury landed by round: 11 - 7 - 1 - 6 - 9 - 9 - 5 - 9 - 8 - 6
I see that this is a normal average figure, and not “low”. In general, I don’t care about this circus; I’m just annoyed when the rules justifying controversial decisions are “made up on the fly.” Or when the rules work in one place but not in another.
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Questionable criteria (I’m not at all sure that they are applied as you highlighted). Assuming this is the case, then let's say a round where one boxer threw 100 punches and another zero would be counted as only 10-9 if the second boxer (with zero punches) was able to stay on his feet? You understand that this is absurd?
Fury landed just one punch in the third round. It's 8-10 automatically. Plus a knockdown, it should be 7-10.

Your criteria is even more absurd because in your hypothetical scenario a fighter could win a single round 10-0 and then run around the other 9 rounds doing next to nothing and still win by only losing those 9 rounds by a 9-10 score.

It is possible for judges to give a fighter less points than 9 without a knockdown but the circumstances have to be extraordinary. Ngannou landed only 7 punches in that third round which is low even for a heavyweight. He was dominant but not so thoroughly dominant that the score should have been wider. Fury was able to stand back up and shake off the cobwebs. He was stunned but not so badly hurt that a stoppage might have been considered.

Ngannou dominated the 3rd round but that doesn't merit a 10-7.

Right. A fighter can possibly get a 10-8 even without a knockdown provided he battered his opponent from pillar to post. And another thing, even if a fighter can score a knockdown but was losing prior to and after the knockdown and is constantly hit by power punches and significant jabs he may end up getting only a 10-9 instead of 10-8. A referee can also make a standing 8-count even without a knockdown if he thinks the battered fighter needs to be counted and re-assessed.
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Questionable criteria (I’m not at all sure that they are applied as you highlighted). Assuming this is the case, then let's say a round where one boxer threw 100 punches and another zero would be counted as only 10-9 if the second boxer (with zero punches) was able to stay on his feet? You understand that this is absurd?
Fury landed just one punch in the third round. It's 8-10 automatically. Plus a knockdown, it should be 7-10.

Your criteria is even more absurd because in your hypothetical scenario a fighter could win a single round 10-0 and then run around the other 9 rounds doing next to nothing and still win by only losing those 9 rounds by a 9-10 score.

It is possible for judges to give a fighter less points than 9 without a knockdown but the circumstances have to be extraordinary. Ngannou landed only 7 punches in that third round which is low even for a heavyweight. He was dominant but not so thoroughly dominant that the score should have been wider. Fury was able to stand back up and shake off the cobwebs. He was stunned but not so badly hurt that a stoppage might have been considered.
legendary
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I wonder how one could interpret the statistics of the third round as 8-10? Isn't that 7 - 10? Moreover, if the judges had scored 7-10, then as a result of a split decision, the victory would have gone to Ngannou.


It was already explained by the poster prior to your post.

The scoring is not only decided in one round, Ngannou obviously won that round but it was only a 10-8 score in favor of him.

Let's take a look how it's scored in boxing here.
Quote
For each knockdown in a round, the judge deducts an additional point from the fighter knocked down, resulting in a 10–8 score if there is one knockdown or a 10–7 score if there are two knockdowns.

You see, when Fury went down once, the score was 10-8. If he had gone down twice, it would have been 10-7.

Questionable criteria (I’m not at all sure that they are applied as you highlighted). Assuming this is the case, then let's say a round where one boxer threw 100 punches and another zero would be counted as only 10-9 if the second boxer (with zero punches) was able to stay on his feet? You understand that this is absurd?
Fury landed just one punch in the third round. It's 8-10 automatically. Plus a knockdown, it should be 7-10.
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I wonder how one could interpret the statistics of the third round as 8-10? Isn't that 7 - 10? Moreover, if the judges had scored 7-10, then as a result of a split decision, the victory would have gone to Ngannou.


It was already explained by the poster prior to your post.

The scoring is not only decided in one round, Ngannou obviously won that round but it was only a 10-8 score in favor of him.

Let's take a look how it's scored in boxing here.
Quote
For each knockdown in a round, the judge deducts an additional point from the fighter knocked down, resulting in a 10–8 score if there is one knockdown or a 10–7 score if there are two knockdowns.

You see, when Fury went down once, the score was 10-8. If he had gone down twice, it would have been 10-7.

Now, everything is clear. We're only considering the round when Fury went down. What about the later rounds when his jabs were very effective, and Ngannou wasn't throwing many effective punches?
legendary
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Out of curiosity I finally watched the replay of this fight. I was already a little sleepy but I became more sleepy watching the fight so I stopped scoring the fight. What a shameful performance by Tyson Fury. My hat's off to Ngannou. If only he was a little younger and had more time to practice the sport. There were a lot of close rounds in that fight that could go either way. Fury landed more but Ngannou landed the heavier shots and judges have their own ways of interpreting fights, especially on close rounds.

Here are the official scorecards. There are 5 rounds where the judges did not have the same assessment while in another 5 rounds, they unanimously agreed to each other.



Here is the punch stats of this fight. Maybe it helps in assessing the fight. Based on the stats I had it 95-94 for Fury.


After watching the fight I just can't believe the Saudis spent around a hundred million dollars for such a boring fight. Boxing just lost some casual fans that night. If only they watched the low-budget title fight of DAZN at Cancun, Mexico on the same day they would've stayed. The 11th-round exchange between WBC super featherweight champion O'Shaquie Foster and Eduardo Hernandez might win the round of the year.

I wonder how one could interpret the statistics of the third round as 8-10? Isn't that 7 - 10? Moreover, if the judges had scored 7-10, then as a result of a split decision, the victory would have gone to Ngannou.
For the Saudis this is a normal result, it would be much worse if someone won by knockout in the first round. And what happened suited everyone - 10 rounds, a lot of advertising and all that.
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Out of curiosity I finally watched the replay of this fight. I was already a little sleepy but I became more sleepy watching the fight so I stopped scoring the fight. What a shameful performance by Tyson Fury. My hat's off to Ngannou. If only he was a little younger and had more time to practice the sport. There were a lot of close rounds in that fight that could go either way. Fury landed more but Ngannou landed the heavier shots and judges have their own ways of interpreting fights, especially on close rounds.

Here are the official scorecards. There are 5 rounds where the judges did not have the same assessment while in another 5 rounds, they unanimously agreed to each other.



Here is the punch stats of this fight. Maybe it helps in assessing the fight. Based on the stats I had it 95-94 for Fury.


After watching the fight I just can't believe the Saudis spent around a hundred million dollars for such a boring fight. Boxing just lost some casual fans that night. If only they watched the low-budget title fight of DAZN at Cancun, Mexico on the same day they would've stayed. The 11th-round exchange between WBC super featherweight champion O'Shaquie Foster and Eduardo Hernandez might win the round of the year.
legendary
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But if Ngannou wanted to proved himself, he just have to wait, for sure there are boxers that is willing to fight him, not just those in the top, but maybe in the top 5-10 because it's a win-win situation, they will get to test how good Francis really is, and obviously the money that they are going to get fighting one of the most hype boxers right now.

It's a tricky situation for Francis though. I'm not sure if it's at all possible for him to fight official boxing fights with the top boxers, or would he need any sort of boxing licence and have to work his way up from the bottom. Not sure if fighting more exhibition fights with fighters of a much lower calibre than Tyson Fury would give Francis a decent payout. Given his age, he doesn't have much time to waste and probably will have only a few more fights before retirement. A rematch with Fury would definitely make sense (and maybe going back to MMA after that), but Fury is after Usyk now.
legendary
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The days of Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield were memorable but are resigned to the history books.

True, but I think it was way easier to elevate boxers to high-level celebrity status (i.e. recognisable by millions worldwide) in the past than it is now. Simply because we had a television as a main source of information and all news were reporting on the main boxing events. Nowadays sources of information are decentralised, and often times algorithms on social media would lock people in information bubbles, so any up-and-coming fighters struggle to reach a wider audience, outside of die-hard boxing fans. This means we might never see another "golden era" of boxing similar to what we've had in the past.

Times has really change isn't it, I remember way back when we can't watch the fight live and it's always delayed in our country. The only way to known the score is to tune in in the old and traditional way, radio.

As for this fight, yeah, it's a bit controversial as many have thought that Ngannou won the fight specially he scored that knockdown to make the score 10-8. But it was just one round and there are a lot of rounds that is very close hard to score. But as we all know, usually if that is the case, the judges are going to award the score to the champion, so here, that is why the score or at least 2 of the judges saw it for Fury.

But if Ngannou wanted to proved himself, he just have to wait, for sure there are boxers that is willing to fight him, not just those in the top, but maybe in the top 5-10 because it's a win-win situation, they will get to test how good Francis really is, and obviously the money that they are going to get fighting one of the most hype boxers right now.
legendary
Activity: 2436
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The days of Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield were memorable but are resigned to the history books.

True, but I think it was way easier to elevate boxers to high-level celebrity status (i.e. recognisable by millions worldwide) in the past than it is now. Simply because we had a television as a main source of information and all news were reporting on the main boxing events. Nowadays sources of information are decentralised, and often times algorithms on social media would lock people in information bubbles, so any up-and-coming fighters struggle to reach a wider audience, outside of die-hard boxing fans. This means we might never see another "golden era" of boxing similar to what we've had in the past.
legendary
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Wasn't able to jump on this as early as I hoped I would but goddamn is Francis robbed from that fight. They gotta stop with these weird split decision bullshits cause it generally fucks with an otherwise great match. It happened against Pacquiao back then, where he lost against what would've been a no-brainer win, and now it's happening again to Ngannou? That's just something else man lol.

I beg to disagree this is completely not the same with Pacman's fight, the fight that Pacman looked he was rigged was against Horn, the other fights it was close though so we gotta respect the judgest decision, sometimes boxing really like that, it does not happen based on our expectation but the fight between Fury and Ngannou, some says Ngannou was robbed but the other side says it's a fair match.

Maybe they need to hold off on the judging and be more focused on actually just betting cause what the fuck is all these man. Don't get me wrong Fury did well in that fight as well but Francis mopped the floor with him in round 3! If that's not enough to sway the votes of the judges towards him then idk what else.

The scoring is not only decided in one round, Ngannou obviously won that round but it was only a 10-8 score in favor of him.

Let's take a look how it's scored in boxing here.
Quote
For each knockdown in a round, the judge deducts an additional point from the fighter knocked down, resulting in a 10–8 score if there is one knockdown or a 10–7 score if there are two knockdowns.
sr. member
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I don't follow boxing as much as I use to when I was younger. I really miss the days of the big time legendary heavyweights such as Tyson, Holyfield, Lennox Lewis etc.  Today it seems like the guy, or heavyweight that I see the name most often pop up is Fury. Has he been the best heavyweight for some time?  Is there anyone else coming up to challenge him?

I wanting to start to learn more about boxing so I can start placing some bets on the matches.
Fury has been but his most recent match against Ngannou showed his weak side that he has left to be the best heavyweight champion to be less of it.

Fury's next upcoming match will be against Usyk in December but because of how injured Fury is, it's like his boxing match against Usyk will not happen this December but rather next year. By that time he must have been healed from the injury he got from Ngannou.

Usyk is another professional heavyweight champion fighter who is making a name for himself in the boxing industry. He is from Ukraine. He defeated Unified Heavyweight Champion Anthony Joshua(a Nigerian) twice in 2021 and 2022 to win the WBA, IBF, WBO, and IBO titles.


This is the little insight I can give you in the world of boxing federation. I hope you get to follow up with the recent update from the World Boxing Federation on who will be owing the heavyweight title soon. It can be Fury or Usyk. Next year will seek that.
legendary
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Ngannou earned the respect of all those that doubted him before the fight took place. In my opinion, he was by far the better boxer and should have been awarded the win or at least had a very dubious draw. As for a rematch, I doubt there would a clause for Ngannou to invoke it therefore he should move on to other fighters to make a name and money for himself while Fury vs Usyk try to get their own unification fight on.

If there are politics in play in order to ensure Fury vs Usyk takes place in Saudi Arabia then that could be the reason otherwise I have no idea how a judge scored the fight 96/93 in favour of Fury. Shocking  Shocked

And with that, it seems that Francis is smelling big money already and Ngannou: I Have A lot of Options - But I Want Fury Rematch The Most!

But I doubt about this scenario that he has laid out, I mean don't see Usyk stepping aside, they already sign a deal with Fury and everyone is now tune in this fight. So the best option for Ngannou is to wait. Although he seems not to be damage physically as compare to Fury, he needs to take that rest as well.

And this time, he will be on the venue and the one to watch the fight and maybe after the winner of the Fury vs Usyk fight, he will go up in the ring to challenge the winner verbally.
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Wasn't able to jump on this as early as I hoped I would but goddamn is Francis robbed from that fight. They gotta stop with these weird split decision bullshits cause it generally fucks with an otherwise great match. It happened against Pacquiao back then, where he lost against what would've been a no-brainer win, and now it's happening again to Ngannou? That's just something else man lol.

Maybe they need to hold off on the judging and be more focused on actually just betting cause what the fuck is all these man. Don't get me wrong Fury did well in that fight as well but Francis mopped the floor with him in round 3! If that's not enough to sway the votes of the judges towards him then idk what else.
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And with that, it seems that Francis is smelling big money already and Ngannou: I Have A lot of Options - But I Want Fury Rematch The Most!

But I doubt about this scenario that he has laid out, I mean don't see Usyk stepping aside, they already sign a deal with Fury and everyone is now tune in this fight. So the best option for Ngannou is to wait. Although he seems not to be damage physically as compare to Fury, he needs to take that rest as well.

And this time, he will be on the venue and the one to watch the fight and maybe after the winner of the Fury vs Usyk fight, he will go up in the ring to challenge the winner verbally.
legendary
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Fury definitely looked awful but was it a case of Ngannou being a step above being better than him in the ring that day, or Fury running out ideas as he was not bothered and not focused about the fight? I did not know who threw more punches or jabs but during the fight I thought it was Ngannou. Also, the intent for the harder effective hitting seemed to be by Ngannou. I thought Fury was very fortunate to have won the fight.

The scorecard was understandably confusing. Two judges had it in favour of Fury while one had it in favour of Ngannou. If the first judge scored the bout 95/94 in favour of Ngannou and the second judge scored it 95/94 in favour of Fury, how did the third judge score the bout 96/93 in favour of Fury especially after he was the one who was knocked down?

Most of the urgency, aggression and intent was by Ngannou because Fury completely underestimated what was going to happen in the ring. Fury looked as though he was a shadow of his former self. He needs to go back to the drawing board before he takes on Usyk otherwise he will lose the fight:
[ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 23rd December 2023

Neither fighter landed or threw very many punches. When each fighter is landing less than 10 punches per round the final result can be very subjective. It was obviously a close fight but Fury landed more punches according to CompuBox and I felt like he outboxed Ngannou in the majority of rounds. Ngannou's power was impressive but Fury managed to dodge most of it by clinching and jabbing. As dreadful as Fury looked, his activity was enough to win rounds against a fighter with limited technique who solely focused on trying to win by knockout.
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The scorecard was understandably confusing. Two judges had it in favour of Fury while one had it in favour of Ngannou. If the first judge scored the bout 95/94 in favour of Ngannou and the second judge scored it 95/94 in favour of Fury, how did the third judge score the bout 96/93 in favour of Fury especially after he was the one who was knocked down?

Most of the urgency, aggression and intent was by Ngannou because Fury completely underestimated what was going to happen in the ring. Fury looked as though he was a shadow of his former self. He needs to go back to the drawing board before he takes on Usyk otherwise he will lose the fight:
[ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 23rd December 2023

Neither fighter landed or threw very many punches. When each fighter is landing less than 10 punches per round the final result can be very subjective. It was obviously a close fight but Fury landed more punches according to CompuBox and I felt like he outboxed Ngannou in the majority of rounds. Ngannou's power was impressive but Fury managed to dodge most of it by clinching and jabbing. As dreadful as Fury looked, his activity was enough to win rounds against a fighter with limited technique who solely focused on trying to win by knockout.
legendary
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The days of Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield were memorable but are resigned to the history books. The way things are going it is probably better to close your eyes and place the bet rather than trying to work out who the better boxer is statistically. Honestly, the state of the heavyweight division at the moment is not great as beyond Fury and Usyk there are just Ruiz, Joshua and Wilder but they are all mid-30s heading towards 40.

Looking at that group you have to go with Fury and Usyk as the best.

I don't follow boxing as much as I use to when I was younger. I really miss the days of the big time legendary heavyweights such as Tyson, Holyfield, Lennox Lewis etc.  Today it seems like the guy, or heavyweight that I see the name most often pop up is Fury. Has he been the best heavyweight for some time?  Is there anyone else coming up to challenge him?

I wanting to start to learn more about boxing so I can start placing some bets on the matches.
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