UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread - page 705.

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Quote from: joker_josue on June 02, 2021, 09:44:46 AM

Quote from: Smartvirus on June 02, 2021, 09:21:04 AM

This is what I feel the correcting should be. A free competition for all clubs. To choose the sports the competition that doesn't occur as a progression like the winner of Europa (Villarreal)and UCL (Chelsea) coming to play a fixture as the super cup. I can't really say how this things are done but then, taking out the competition is one very wrong way to go about tackling the super league thing. Perhaps, there should be some sort of progression to the later so, all that should have been done is to hind a way to incorporate the super league although, I guess the complications here has got everything to do with the UCL but still, it could be done.

But all this fuss about the SuperLiga is only because UEFA is afraid of losing the monopoly of the football market in Europe.

Take, for example, this "friendly" competition (Which is not organized by UEFA or FIFA.):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Champions_Cup

It works similarly to SuperLiga, clubs enter by invitation.
You're gonna say it's friendly. It's true it's considered a friendly tournament.

But the term friendly is very subjective, it will depend on the importance the clubs give it. If this friendly tournament has more money than any other official competition, which one do you think the clubs will try to win? It's the "friendly" tournament.

The problem is that the quality of soccer suffers hard with more competitions and more pressure on the player's physical condition.

If you look at the international competition, the nations league, frankly speaking I am not even watching it. I even forgot that Portugal won it. That is what happens when you have more competitions. The quality interest goes down. Let's see what the next, the so called conference league brings to the table. I am skeptical that many will watch it next year.

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Quote from: Smartvirus on June 02, 2021, 09:21:04 AM

This is what I feel the correcting should be. A free competition for all clubs. To choose the sports the competition that doesn't occur as a progression like the winner of Europa (Villarreal)and UCL (Chelsea) coming to play a fixture as the super cup. I can't really say how this things are done but then, taking out the competition is one very wrong way to go about tackling the super league thing. Perhaps, there should be some sort of progression to the later so, all that should have been done is to hind a way to incorporate the super league although, I guess the complications here has got everything to do with the UCL but still, it could be done.

But all this fuss about the SuperLiga is only because UEFA is afraid of losing the monopoly of the football market in Europe.

Take, for example, this "friendly" competition (Which is not organized by UEFA or FIFA.):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Champions_Cup

It works similarly to SuperLiga, clubs enter by invitation.
You're gonna say it's friendly. It's true it's considered a friendly tournament.

But the term friendly is very subjective, it will depend on the importance the clubs give it. If this friendly tournament has more money than any other official competition, which one do you think the clubs will try to win? It's the "friendly" tournament.

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Quote from: joker_josue on June 02, 2021, 06:05:53 AM

The point is that legally UEFA or FIFA cannot prohibit the creation of new competitions. And they cannot penalize teams just because they participate in other events organized by them. To do that was to be violating free competition law.

This is what I feel the correcting should be. A free competition for all clubs. To choose the sports the competition that doesn't occur as a progression like the winner of Europa (Villarreal)and UCL (Chelsea) coming to play a fixture as the super cup. I can't really say how this things are done but then, taking out the competition is one very wrong way to go about tackling the super league thing. Perhaps, there should be some sort of progression to the later so, all that should have been done is to hind a way to incorporate the super league although, I guess the complications here has got everything to do with the UCL but still, it could be done.

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Quote from: acquafredda on June 02, 2021, 04:06:07 AM

If Uefa will exclude Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus from the next Champions League the three teams will have serious reasons to go forward with creating a Super League. The verdict is now near and if the indiscretion should be confirmed, it is good to underline that it would only be a first verdict and therefore not definitive: Juve, Real and Barça are ready, in case, to appeal to the European Court of Justice against what they believe to be a power suit by Uefa and FIFA. At that point, a devastating scenario would unfold for world soccer: if the judges were to agree with the clubs on the matter of free competition, then the Super League would have the road paved.

The point is that legally UEFA or FIFA cannot prohibit the creation of new competitions. And they cannot penalize teams just because they participate in other events organized by them. To do that was to be violating free competition law.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 01, 2021, 05:23:46 PM

Juventus Real and Barca are going to be banned from the next Champions League.
Juventus Real and Barca will go to the law court and they will suspend the ban.

After that, they will play the 2021-2022 Champions, like they banned Manchester City the last year and admitted it later.

I heard this news a few months ago. But I don't know if this is official or not. If it's official, of course I'm disappointed, I hope this is just news to make UEFA correct themselves. Real madrid being the originators of course they will be banned and get heavy punishment if this is true. I didn't hear that Madrid had withdrawn from the super league, I heard that Manchester United and Chelsea had withdrawn from the super league. It was a good move, they had thought ahead, because the super league was not recognized.

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If Uefa will exclude Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus from the next Champions League the three teams will have serious reasons to go forward with creating a Super League. The verdict is now near and if the indiscretion should be confirmed, it is good to underline that it would only be a first verdict and therefore not definitive: Juve, Real and Barça are ready, in case, to appeal to the European Court of Justice against what they believe to be a power suit by Uefa and FIFA. At that point, a devastating scenario would unfold for world soccer: if the judges were to agree with the clubs on the matter of free competition, then the Super League would have the road paved.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 01, 2021, 05:23:46 PM

Juventus Real and Barca are going to be banned from the next Champions League.
Juventus Real and Barca will go to the law court and they will suspend the ban.

If UEFA did that, it would be the first to lose out. I was left without one of the clubs that generate more revenue in the competition.

Then, they gave the clubs reason to create such a Super League. This story the fans didn't like, it's bullshit. People will support your team in the competitions they participate. The problem was that they "sold" the idea to fans poorly. If they do it right, fans will support it anyway.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 01, 2021, 05:23:46 PM

After that, they will play the 2021-2022 Champions, like they banned Manchester City the last year and admitted it later.

I don't get it, what's the point in suspending Real Madrid, FC Barcelona and Juventus by Uefa from the UCL participation with the i tent that they would participation much later? It makes no sense. Should it be a fee that they want, the clubs could be fined even now. The Uefa's authority is finite in thre league but suspension of participation only to unban them later doesn't go any length in proving that. It only gives clubs the choice to choose the league for which they value the most during a season.

Quote from: Coyster on May 30, 2021, 01:58:36 PM

City would not win the UCL unless Pep stops thinking too much in the most important games of the competition, like the final yesterday, there was absolutely no reason not to stick with the team set-up that they have been using right from the group stage, I don't think I've watched a City match this season were they started without a defensive midfielder, but Pep chose to do so in the final, it's unacceptable to be honest, and Pep can take quite a lot of blame for city's failures last night.

As much as I would have loved to agree with you in all this, it's Pep's duty to think and test strategies that he hopes would work. You know, he has played Chelsea a few times this season and has made some deductions to come up with the strategy he used in the finals. On this note, it brings me to the question of what if the strategy had worked? We might have just as well applaud Pep and Manchester city but, Tuchel had other plans and he wasn't going to let Pep steal it away from him.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on June 01, 2021, 05:23:46 PM

Juventus Real and Barca are going to be banned from the next Champions League.

From several reports I have read in the past, a court in Madrid has ruled that UEFA shouldn't take any actions against the Super League, the players taking part in it, or the club officials interested in managing it. UEFA knows how many fans Real and Barca has all over the world and they know that Juventus is the most popular team in Italy. Restricting them from participating isn't in their best interest. But I have no doubt they'll get a huge fine.

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Juventus Real and Barca are going to be banned from the next Champions League.
Juventus Real and Barca will go to the law court and they will suspend the ban.

After that, they will play the 2021-2022 Champions, like they banned Manchester City the last year and admitted it later.

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Quote from: ShowOff on June 01, 2021, 01:41:46 PM

That's why a coach doesn't always have to depend on players. This is a problem that must be resolved by a coach, but many coach feel comfortable using the services of key players because it can improve their reputation as a coach in terms of achievement.

Coaches depend on good players. Football may be a team effort, but the better the players, the better the team, so the quality of the players matter a lot. Also in most top teams, they have a collection of good players and each one would be missed if they are absent. Liverpool for example missed Van Dijk for most of last season and it badly affected their performance, if Mo Salah was as absent, it would have equally affected their overall performance, same with other too clubs. The media may focus more on the contributions of attackers, but each quality player would be missed.

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Quote from: kassex on June 01, 2021, 01:03:30 PM

A team should not be very dependent on one player. No matter how great he is. But unfortunately, today a lot of top clubs are very dependent on one player. Barcelona - Messi, Bayern - Lewandowski, Liverpool - Van Dyck. Real Madrid was heavily dependent on Ronaldo. Coaches need to change this situation so as not to lose the final like Guardiola or Klopp at the right time.

Football is a team game and it may be true that a team should not rely too much on one player to make a significant difference in club achievement. But the fact is, almost all team have mainstay players who are always prioritized by the coach even by his own peers during the game and that is a problem that many coach actually think about. The addiction don't all end badly. In certain situation, players may be able to help a lot but I still agree it shouldn't be done all the time.

Quote from: MAAManda on June 01, 2021, 01:40:05 PM

In essence, all clubs have their own key players, if these players do not play, it will affect team performance.

That's why a coach doesn't always have to depend on players. This is a problem that must be resolved by a coach, but many coach feel comfortable using the services of key players because it can improve their reputation as a coach in terms of achievement.

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Quote from: kassex on June 01, 2021, 01:03:30 PM

A team should not be very dependent on one player. No matter how great he is. But unfortunately, today a lot of top clubs are very dependent on one player. Barcelona - Messi, Bayern - Lewandowski, Liverpool - Van Dyck. Real Madrid was heavily dependent on Ronaldo. Coaches need to change this situation so as not to lose the final like Guardiola or Klopp at the right time.

Every Club Has Its Key Players, Why Don't We All Know?

Because they are rarely highlighted by the media, the media only focuses on top-class players such as Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski and others.

I think you will know Jamie Vardy, Jamie Vardy being a key player for the Leicester team. So Why Don't You Align Vardy With Other Key Players?

In essence, all clubs have their own key players, if these players do not play, it will affect team performance.

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Quote from: kassex on June 01, 2021, 01:03:30 PM

A team should not be very dependent on one player. No matter how great he is. But unfortunately, today a lot of top clubs are very dependent on one player. Barcelona - Messi, Bayern - Lewandowski, Liverpool - Van Dyck. Real Madrid was heavily dependent on Ronaldo. Coaches need to change this situation so as not to lose the final like Guardiola or Klopp at the right time.

I think this is a difficult issue to change in football.

All teams naturally have a "technical leader" and, in one way or another, his departure will always impact the team as a whole, either because he's a tactical player needed to complete the plays or because of the emotional shock he causes in other players.

I see this very naturally, but each coach must prepare his team for these eventualities.

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Quote from: hahay on June 01, 2021, 05:42:42 AM

Also, City seemed to be unable to do anything anymore when De Bruyne got injured. If Pep is aware of the Chelsea tactics that Tuchel applies on the counter-attack strategy, then at least Pep does not need to continue to put pressure on Chelsea's defense area because of course it will be a blunder. Unfortunately, there was nothing else that could be done at that time because losing the main player would certainly make the strategy that might be made to equalize the score a mess.

A team should not be very dependent on one player. No matter how great he is. But unfortunately, today a lot of top clubs are very dependent on one player. Barcelona - Messi, Bayern - Lewandowski, Liverpool - Van Dyck. Real Madrid was heavily dependent on Ronaldo. Coaches need to change this situation so as not to lose the final like Guardiola or Klopp at the right time.

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Quote from: hahay on June 01, 2021, 05:42:42 AM

Also, City seemed to be unable to do anything anymore when De Bruyne got injured. If Pep is aware of the Chelsea tactics that Tuchel applies on the counter-attack strategy, then at least Pep does not need to continue to put pressure on Chelsea's defense area because of course it will be a blunder. Unfortunately, there was nothing else that could be done at that time because losing the main player would certainly make the strategy that might be made to equalize the score a mess.

both teams played well and both deserved to win the Champions League and Chelsea just had better luck that day. Tuchel is great, this is a very great achievement, both for him and for the whole team. I, like most, expected Man City to win, and I really wanted Guardiola to lead City to victory.

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on June 01, 2021, 04:30:28 AM

Quote from: Iranus on June 01, 2021, 12:30:26 AM

Quote from: gabbie2010 on May 31, 2021, 12:33:32 PM

Quote from: BitcoinHunt3r on May 30, 2021, 10:28:42 PM

Yes indeed that is characteristic of Chelsea when playing, they rely on counterattacks through the speed of the players they did the same thing to Barcelona a few years ago and won. I'm not sure Pep forgot about that he must have prepared something for it just that we didn't see in the last match. I think there is something that has not been issued by Pep.

When a club has young experience pacy players such a club will always counterattack, the likes of Mount, Kante, Havertz, Jouginho and Werner has speed they can move the ball quickly and pass. the final pass mount gave Havertz was a speedy splitting pass of which Man City defenders couldn't cover up because of the swiftness of the pass this resulted to the lone goal, anyway Pep is be blamed for not fielding a defensive midfielder to cover up his defenders.

We were all aware of Chelsea playing attacking football and they counterattack a lot. Pep Guardiola knew Tuchel's strategy. Pep should have adopted adequate tactics to counterattack. But Guardiola could not resist Chelsea's counterattack and Manchester City lost in the Champions League final. Pep's responsibility, of course

It was of course Pep Guardiola's responsibility. Like you said, he already knew Tuchel's game plan. He should have created a much different tactic which would help them weaken Chelsea's defense. But it wasn't the case for them unfortunately. Chelsea got a totally deserved title.

Also, City seemed to be unable to do anything anymore when De Bruyne got injured. If Pep is aware of the Chelsea tactics that Tuchel applies on the counter-attack strategy, then at least Pep does not need to continue to put pressure on Chelsea's defense area because of course it will be a blunder. Unfortunately, there was nothing else that could be done at that time because losing the main player would certainly make the strategy that might be made to equalize the score a mess.

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Quote from: Iranus on June 01, 2021, 12:30:26 AM

Quote from: gabbie2010 on May 31, 2021, 12:33:32 PM

Quote from: BitcoinHunt3r on May 30, 2021, 10:28:42 PM

Yes indeed that is characteristic of Chelsea when playing, they rely on counterattacks through the speed of the players they did the same thing to Barcelona a few years ago and won. I'm not sure Pep forgot about that he must have prepared something for it just that we didn't see in the last match. I think there is something that has not been issued by Pep.

When a club has young experience pacy players such a club will always counterattack, the likes of Mount, Kante, Havertz, Jouginho and Werner has speed they can move the ball quickly and pass. the final pass mount gave Havertz was a speedy splitting pass of which Man City defenders couldn't cover up because of the swiftness of the pass this resulted to the lone goal, anyway Pep is be blamed for not fielding a defensive midfielder to cover up his defenders.

We were all aware of Chelsea playing attacking football and they counterattack a lot. Pep Guardiola knew Tuchel's strategy. Pep should have adopted adequate tactics to counterattack. But Guardiola could not resist Chelsea's counterattack and Manchester City lost in the Champions League final. Pep's responsibility, of course

It was of course Pep Guardiola's responsibility. Like you said, he already knew Tuchel's game plan. He should have created a much different tactic which would help them weaken Chelsea's defense. But it wasn't the case for them unfortunately. Chelsea got a totally deserved title.

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Quote from: gabbie2010 on May 31, 2021, 12:33:32 PM

Quote from: BitcoinHunt3r on May 30, 2021, 10:28:42 PM

Yes indeed that is characteristic of Chelsea when playing, they rely on counterattacks through the speed of the players they did the same thing to Barcelona a few years ago and won. I'm not sure Pep forgot about that he must have prepared something for it just that we didn't see in the last match. I think there is something that has not been issued by Pep.

When a club has young experience pacy players such a club will always counterattack, the likes of Mount, Kante, Havertz, Jouginho and Werner has speed they can move the ball quickly and pass. the final pass mount gave Havertz was a speedy splitting pass of which Man City defenders couldn't cover up because of the swiftness of the pass this resulted to the lone goal, anyway Pep is be blamed for not fielding a defensive midfielder to cover up his defenders.

We were all aware of Chelsea playing attacking football and they counterattack a lot. Pep Guardiola knew Tuchel's strategy. Pep should have adopted adequate tactics to counterattack. But Guardiola could not resist Chelsea's counterattack and Manchester City lost in the Champions League final. Pep's responsibility, of course

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Quote from: gabbie2010 on May 31, 2021, 12:33:32 PM

Quote from: BitcoinHunt3r on May 30, 2021, 10:28:42 PM

Quote from: BuNga_cute on May 30, 2021, 05:56:49 PM

Quote from: BitcoinHunt3r on May 30, 2021, 04:17:20 PM

Quote from: muratsink on May 30, 2021, 02:01:28 PM

Quote from: Coyster on May 30, 2021, 01:58:36 PM

Quote from: ShowOff on May 30, 2021, 12:08:10 PM

Guardiola's strategy in the final may be questioned a lot because it looks different from before until reaching the final.

City would not win the UCL unless Pep stops thinking too much in the most important games of the competition, like the final yesterday, there was absolutely no reason not to stick with the team set-up that they have been using right from the group stage, I don't think I've watched a City match this season were they started without a defensive midfielder, but Pep chose to do so in the final, it's unacceptable to be honest, and Pep can take quite a lot of blame for city's failures last night.

Pep Guardiola always failed to defeat Thomas Tuchel what ever competition not only on primer league, bundesliga until champion league always never have any way how to defeat with Thomas Tuchel team, I think most applause how midfielder from Chelsea manage by Kante give more contribution, not only for defensive but also Kante become key for Chelsea when attacking.

If the team loses people will blame the strategy used or if the team wins people will praise him this is normal right? Pep has experienced in various competitions, of course he knows what to do, to be sure we are not better than him. For me personally Chelsea is playing better and lucky so they deserve that title.

With Manchester City's achievements and performance while Guardiola was coach, it was indeed extraordinary, so it is not wise for
Manchester City's failure to blame Guardiola. Chelsea managed to beat Man City in the final was a little lucky, and not because of
Guardiola's bad strategy. If we look at the match statistics of the two teams are almost the same, this proves that both teams do have
the same chance of winning. But Chelsea players are a little better off taking the opportunity to become a goal.

Yes indeed that is characteristic of Chelsea when playing, they rely on counterattacks through the speed of the players they did the same thing to Barcelona a few years ago and won. I'm not sure Pep forgot about that he must have prepared something for it just that we didn't see in the last match. I think there is something that has not been issued by Pep.

When a club has young experience pacy players such a club will always counterattack, the likes of Mount, Kante, Havertz, Jouginho and Werner has speed they can move the ball quickly and pass. the final pass mount gave Havertz was a speedy splitting pass of which Man City defenders couldn't cover up because of the swiftness of the pass this resulted to the lone goal, anyway Pep is be blamed for not fielding a defensive midfielder to cover up his defenders.

I see here the opinion is divided saying people would have praised Peo had he won with his strategy, but it’s a flawed argument because no coach in their right mind would experiment in the finals.

Furthermore I feel that Pep dominance in premier league will come under serious threat if Tuchel continues to beat him, but after suffering 3 quick defeats at the hands of Tuchel do you’ll expect that Pep will beat Tuchel in the new season?.

Topic: UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread - page 705. (Read 129794 times)