Usagi: falsifying NAVs, manipulating share prices and misleading investors. - page 31.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Of course not but it's $599 now, and it will be $599 tomorrow. Maybe not next year, but next week? pretty bloody likely.

Hear! hear!
So why do you put its "real value" in DMCs nav sheet at $771?
Why do you put as "real value" for ABM a price that corresponds to its one and only non upgradable single being worth $4920 ?

Do you think before you post?

And while we are it, why do you put OBSI.HRPT "real price" at 4x market price, FZB.A's (Feedzbirds) at twice the IPO and 10x market price, etc ,etc.

Im sure your letter to shareholders will explain all that too?

pyrkne

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: ?? on ??

This is not about questionable finances anymore...

Well, I'm sure you of all people feel that way. Since "questionable" is so subjective though, it's best to get the most information in the open. People have different tolerance levels for risk after all.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

It's going to have to wait - got a phone-call shortly after my last post and only just got off the phone. Have other things I need to do now, so will have to leave the next bit for another day (maybe tomorrow - though I won't have too much free time then).

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Deprived, by this point what would be the cost for you to prepare a complete report, 50 pages or whatever, detailing the thing end to end? Reading it in threads is disconcerting.

It could be the "how to fail" manual. For socialites.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Puppet on September 29, 2012, 02:42:27 PM

You also had a second such incident you wanted to report on? IF its only half as clear cut as the first one, I am very curious to read it.

Been considering which to do next (there's actually a few more very clear cases of one company carrying out actions that benefit another of usagi's companies with no gain to the first).

The nyan.a holding OBSI.HRPT shares probably warrants some proper description (there's a bit more too it than has previously been explained/examined). But that one is messy to explain due to the relationships between the various nyans.

I think, instead, I'll do "Nyan cooking the books to cover up an interest-free loan to CPA" - as it hasn't been discussed anywhere (except briefly by me) and just about all the facts in it are already accepted by usagi. Other, of course, than that the whole exercise was just to let CPA get an interest-free loan from nyan.

Give me 15 mins or so to type it up - I'll have to reference a fair bit of background info so as to make what happened crystal clear.

blakdawg

member

Activity: 113

Merit: 10

Quote from: augustocroppo on September 29, 2012, 04:52:35 PM

Quote from: blakdawg on September 29, 2012, 04:39:08 PM

Have I understood you correctly?

No, you did not.

Ah. Upon careful re-reading, I note that you never mentioned profit. My mistake!

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Lets see if Usagi even denies doing those trades before I provide further evidence.

augustocroppo

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 503

Quote from: blakdawg on September 29, 2012, 04:39:08 PM

Have I understood you correctly?

No, you did not.

augustocroppo

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 503

Quote from: Puppet on September 29, 2012, 04:13:42 PM

Yes, but the screenshot was taken on the 28th.
That spreadsheet doesnt auto update the date, but the asset numbers are updated automatically through GLBSE API.

See also here for a snapshot on the 27th:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1225573

I see a snapshot with no time stamp...

Quote from: Puppet on September 29, 2012, 03:20:22 PM

5 day trading volume is 231, so essentially Usagi is the only one buying. and most likely the only one bidding.

And at what price does usagi value them for his NAV calculations?
0.7 BTC per share or almost twice GLBSE 5 day average, the average only he pushed this high.

So, does usagi know something about FPGAMINING that you dont, or is he just buying up distressed shares that he already owned to temporarily push up GLSBE prices to inflate his book value (and even then doubling that value in his books like he does with most things anyway)?

The snapshot you offered is not accurate and you did not presented any additional data which indicates that in the last five days the FPGAMINING shares were solely obtained by Usagi.

blakdawg

member

Activity: 113

Merit: 10

Quote from: augustocroppo on September 28, 2012, 07:32:00 PM

Do you have investments in Usagi's business or not?

Hmm, so in your view, this is the proper sequence of events:

1. Invest.
2. Perform due diligence.
3. ?
4. Profit!

Have I understood you correctly?

Quote

'It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,' the Queen remarked.
'What sort of things do you remember best?' Alice ventured to ask.
'Oh, things that happened the week after next,' the Queen replied in a careless tone. 'For instance, now,' she went on, sticking a large piece of plaster on her finger as she spoke, 'there's the King's Messenger. He's in prison now, being punished: and the trial doesn't even begin till next Wednesday: and of course the crime comes last of all.'
'Suppose he never commits the crime?' said Alice.
'That would be all the better, wouldn't it?' the Queen said, as she bound the plaster round her finger with a bit of ribbon.
Alice felt there was no denying that. 'Of course it would be all the better,' she said: 'but it wouldn't be all the better his being punished.'
'You're wrong there, at any rate,' said the Queen. 'Were you ever punished?'
'Only for faults,' said Alice.
'And you were all the better for it, I know!' the Queen said triumphantly.
'Yes, but then I had done the things I was punished for,' said Alice: 'that makes all the difference.'
'But if you hadn't done them,' the Queen said, 'that would have been better still; better, and better, and better!' Her voice went higher with each 'better', till it got quite to a squeak at last.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Yes, but the screenshot was taken on the 28th.
That spreadsheet doesnt auto update the date, but the asset numbers are updated automatically through GLBSE API.

See also here for a snapshot on the 27th:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1225573

augustocroppo

vip

Activity: 756

Merit: 503

Quote from: Puppet on September 29, 2012, 03:20:22 PM

28/09:
FPGAMINING 300
http://i.imgur.com/M7gWf.png

In that shot, I read it as 20th September 2012.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

(modified crosspost)

For those not following the FPGAMINING thread; a few days ago, conspirosphere.tk posted about it, the issuer stopped honoring its contract, stopped dividend payments and it appears to be yet another blatant scam:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fpgamining-scam-ongoing-112969

BMF has a substantial investment in FPGAMINING. Usagi posted in that thread, so he was aware. What does Usagi do?

28/09:
FPGAMINING 300
http://i.imgur.com/M7gWf.png

Now:
FPGAMINING 515
http://tsukino.ca/bmf/holdings-nav/

Yep, he buys 215 more shares, and pays top dollar for them. Note this quote in the OP 3 days ago:
now there are just bids for 2 bonds above 0.2202 BTC (from an IPO price of 1.0 BTC)

Now look:
https://glbse.com/asset/view/FPGAMINING

5 day trading volume is 231, so essentially Usagi is the only one buying. and most likely the only one bidding.

And at what price does usagi value them for his NAV calculations?
0.7 BTC per share or almost twice GLBSE 5 day average, the average only he pushed this high.

So, does usagi know something about FPGAMINING that you dont, or is he just buying up distressed shares that he already owned to temporarily push up GLSBE prices to inflate his book value (and even then doubling that value in his books like he does with most things anyway)?

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

You also had a second such incident you wanted to report on? IF its only half as clear cut as the first one, I am very curious to read it.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Amusing how usagi totally refuses to discuss the BMF insurance issue.

That was (I believe) the very first question I asked about its companies. Just about every other question raised, usagi will try to bluster around with an explanation that (often) doesn't make sense - but at least is an explanation of sorts. On this particular issue, it can't even think of a bullshit explanation to give of what value BMF were getting for their 550 BTC and why they aren't receiving that benefit.

And THAT's why I posted the whole contract in my original post in the CPA thread about a month back (usagi accused me of being a noob for pasting the whole contract rather than just linking it). Not because I don't know how to link - but because I wanted acknowledgement of what was AT that link to prevent it getting changed later if, in fact, usagi were defrauding BMF investors to help CPA out.

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: vampire on September 29, 2012, 12:25:01 PM

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 29, 2012, 09:29:54 AM

If Usagi is not getting a scammer tag for all that bs, then whats the point of this forum in the first place?
Do we really need to wait until he has wasted all the coin on who knows what or cashes inn and runs?
Sure, then we can cry here and confirm that BTC community got fucked once more.
Really?

The forum shouldn't be about trading, these tags are useless IMO.

The people that haven't yet figured out irc eke out a meager existence trying to trade on the forum still.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: brendio on September 29, 2012, 06:08:52 AM

Quote from: stochastic on September 29, 2012, 01:10:58 AM

As per the contract

Quote

The issuer reserves the right purchase back the security at 1.1 times the highest price the asset was traded on GLBSE over the previous month.

To me this means that if the issuer is going to buy the security then it must be done at 1.1 times the highest price, otherwise the issuer cannot purchase the shares back. As the issuer is usagi then usagi must pay at least 1.1 times the highest price over the last month.

I would interpret the contract differently. That is, if the issuer wishes forcibly to buy back shares, it must be at 1.1 times the highest traded price. This right is reserved. It does not say that this is the only situation in which the issuer may buy back shares if sellers are selling voluntarily for a lower price.

I agree and think this is standard.

So contracts should be interpreted by things not written in the contract like the intent of the security/operation?

pyrkne

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

I for one don't care about the scammer's tag. I would like to believe that we can have this discussion without pursuing a tag.

If Usagi's companies (or anyone else's for that matter) have questionable finances, people can post here. Asset issuers can then defend themselves and answer questions. There are few opportunities to get more information about these assets, and this forum is one of them.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Quote from: ?? on ??

So f'in what? If I mark down the price every time I buy hardware eventually I will be selling shares for 1 or 2 satoshis. That's stupid.

If you buy a BFL single, eventually it will be worth only a few satoshi's per share, indeed. Did you intend to keep it on your books for listprice forever?

Now we are not even talking about depreciation here, if you put full list price in your books that would still be defensible, but thats not what you are doing; you are telling people to buy BMF at a certain price, because you claim it has assets that are worth that much (ie, NAV), and you "prove" that by valuing your (very very late) preorders some 30% more than what BFL claims, 100% more than what BFL sellers claim, and in the case of ABM, you claim its worth almost as much as its weight in pure gold. Now THAT is stupid. Or as you said "That is not how companies value assets".

At least not honest companies.

As for the rest of your rant, in half the time you wrote that, you could have answered the questions. If you think I dont deserve an answer, then surely your shareholders do.

vampire

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 29, 2012, 09:29:54 AM

If Usagi is not getting a scammer tag for all that bs, then whats the point of this forum in the first place?
Do we really need to wait until he has wasted all the coin on who knows what or cashes inn and runs?
Sure, then we can cry here and confirm that BTC community got fucked once more.
Really?

The forum shouldn't be about trading, these tags are useless IMO.

Topic: Usagi: falsifying NAVs, manipulating share prices and misleading investors. - page 31. (Read 92656 times)