Topic: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? - page 17. (Read 45532 times)

Vaccines are the most effective public health measure humans have invented, with an incredible risk to benefit ratio and cost-effectiveness. It’s a shame really, terrible diseases mankind essentially defeated are now making a comeback.

I don't agree.

Vaccines can never be made totally safe. You cannot activate the immune system without running risks.
They could potentially be made safer if we prioritized it but the best possible outcome is risk minimization and disease elimination so the vaccines become unnecessary.

Take measles the risk of death among those infected is usually 0.2% with modern medicine, Most of those who die from the infection are less than five years old. If we did not vaccinate against this it would be endemic everyone would be exposed to it most often in early childhood. One in every five hundred would die from it. That coupled with the suffering of the disease itself far exceeds whatever harm the vaccine causes.

Measles is an ideal target for elimination it is:

* A specifically human disease, with no animal reservoir.
* An acute, self-limiting disease, infectious for others for only about a week..
* Has method of intervention (vaccination) that works; elimination has been achieved manu countries as a result of immunization.

Even if you think the measles vaccine is worse then endemic measles which is doubtful the risks of the vaccines is or should be of a finite limited duration until said disease is eradicated.

I admit the case is much weaker for things like the annual flu vaccine.

Well, it is on purpose. They would make them safe if they didn't want to harm people. Of course, the only way to do that is to stop using them altogether.

I can say about myself, I've got all vaccines required before 6 years old, and throughout that time I almost never left hospitals. In particular, I had an allergic arthritis after specific vaccine, and for a long time after that I was haunted by severe heartache. I was a sick child altogether before my mom forbade doctors to vaccinate me. I haven't got any single vaccine after 10, since then my heartaches were gone.

Here you are incorrect. Institutionalized falsehood always in the long run leads to worse outcomes then truth. Your logic is understandable. Indeed its probably the very logic the scientist in TECSHARE article used when he falsified his research. It is also wrong.

The problem with lying is that there are always unanticipated side effects. By giving the general impression that any disease for which we have a vaccine is effectively cured as well as the false idea that vaccines do no harm leads to the following bad outcomes.

1) We become apathetic about actually eliminating the disease. We have only wiped out only one disease in history and that was decades ago. That is pathetic given our level of technological development. Measles, Rubella, Hepatitis B, Polio, ect are all diseases with no animal reservoir and a viable vaccine. There is no logical reason that these diseases should not all be extinct within 15 years. Then we would never need to consider taking a vaccine for it again. However, no one cares anymore because they view it as someone else's problem. They have had their "safe" vaccine why bother.

2) Lies are always exposed. Once they are what chance do you have of wiping out disease then? Do you really think primitive uneducated people will trust you and take their vaccines even when it is their interest to do so once the vaccination proponent has been exposed as a liar and caught minimizing the dangers of his vaccine?

3) Vaccine's work but have rare catastrophic outcomes, the heavy metal preservatives used in some of them are also probably cumulatively toxic with some preservatives worse then others. These are risks that can be minimized and mitigated if we prioritized doing so. We don't prioritize risk reduction when we deny the risk exists.

In the long run falsehood is far more destructive then truth.

If we are honest and fully disclose everything about vaccines yes there would be many who would initially refused to take them relying on others and hoping to hide in the herd immunity. It would even probably lead to disease outbreaks among the unvaccinated in first world countries. However, in the long run it will set the stage for the true elimination of these pathogens.

Yeah probably but it's a slippery slope. If they come out and say vaccines aren't 100% safe and there is a chance your kid will get something undesirable, A LOT more parents will stop vaccinating their kids which will lead to really bad consequences in the future.

This is not a topic. Only people here are the idiots that started the topic, simply because even when you put MONSTRUOUS EVIDENCES RIGHT UNDER THEIR NOSES they ignor it and continue the subject.

It's not like vaccines allowed the worst diseases to disappear and have saved billions of humans, no not at all 

There isn't a single scientist who deny vaccines are essentials. The only debate you can have are:
-Can they have side effects?
-Should they be mandatory? And which ones?
-Shouldn't vaccines be made directly by the state and not by private companies (as it's mandatory, making them by private companies mean you make it mandatory to pay those companies)

I don't see any other debate that can be interesting. Anything like "Vaccines aren't good" is not only stupid, it's pure denial of reality and the advances of science.

Like those Trumptard like to say "if you don't like vaccines go into one of those wonderful countries without mandatory vaccines, there are plenties of them" xD

They believe those things because their is no genuine attempt made to clearly delineate the level of harm vaccines cause.

This information is hidden or never researched as the unwashed masses are deemed too irrational or immoral to handle it. So a minority assumes the worst which is understandable.

The only long term solution is total transparency.

Of course, like with everything, there are side effects and they are not 100% safe. People here, however, seem to think that they are being made on purpose like that, to kill us or to make us sick which is delusional. They also don't believe vaccines stopped smallpox or anything ever.

Vaccines are a tricky issue.
They have been sold as harmless which is a lie.

Ramping up and priming the immune system is never a zero risk affair.
That process is akin to the functional equivalent of emergently deploying your armed forces to a war zone only to find the enemy tied up and helpless.

Most of the time things work out ok. Sometimes not so much. In rare circumstances the tied up invaders might get free somehow and then you have a real war. Sometimes the deployed army goes rogue and starts attacking civilians. The odds are low but not zero. Another potential issue is the metal preservatives used in vaccines to prevent bacterial growth especially in the multi dose vials they sometimes use in the cheeper flu vaccines.

However, the benefits of vaccination are gargantuan. The elimination of smallpox was a true  triumph of modern medicine and its success also means we no longer need to take the smallpox vaccine. It should be possible to repeat that achievement with polio.

The problem arises from a lack of honesty. We are almost certainly better off vaccinating against the nastier of the diseases until we can figure out how to eliminate them. The powers that be seem to fear that if a genuine discussion of this topic is allowed to occur.

1) People being unable to rationally understand risks will improperly evaluate low probability adverse events and refuse vaccines even when it is in their best interest to get them.
2) People will opt to rely on herd immunity choosing to let others assume the burden. If enough people do this it will lead to peroidic outbreaks of disease.

These fears are not entirely unjustified. However, our dishonesty about the issue also prevents rational cost/benefit decisions about vaccines especially vaccines for less dangerous things like the flu or disease that can be minimized via other lifestyle factors such as HPV. Dishonesty blinds the rational as well as the irrational.

I like this^^^. Government is people, just like you and me. Like you, corrupt and deceptive. Like me, honest and trying to do a good job for the people.

People like to believe all sort of things to make themselves feel important. They think the ''government'' controls everything, sometimes they forget government is just people like you and me.

I can't believe this is still a topic in my experience thanks to vaccines I was able to avoid all these nasty diseases when I was still a kid

Any medical person who opposes Big Pharma, is in a position of losing not only his job, but also his life. It's all about money. Big Pharma will assassinate anyone who opposes them in a strong way.

So what is going on with this admission? The politics of the money medical is to remain in the appearance of good faith with the people. They have to do this, just to keep the people buying their products and services. Now that there are independent studies coming out about the grave dangers of vaccines, to stay in the good graces of the people, the medical and Big Pharma are doing damage control by starting to carefully let the dangers come out from within their organizations. Their idea is to, after a couple dozen years, have the people thinking that they made their mistakes in the past, but have something better than bad vaccines now.

I don't know what they will come up with in a couple dozen years. Maybe vaccines will have killed us all off by then. Or maybe they will have turned us all into slaves using some subtle truth-serum-like vaccines. Prepare for the worst from the medical and Big Pharma at all times.

https://sharylattkisson.com/2018/12/10/cdc-possibility-that-vaccines-rarely-trigger-autism/

Interesting quote from CDC official. CDC: “Possibility” that vaccines rarely trigger autism. Sounds like the usual slow walk they do when they know they are facing massive liabilities.

You average brainwashed idiot can absorb the term 'herd immunity' and buy the propaganda that the CDC (corp/gov) knows how to get it, so they chant the term as though they know something.  Sadly, (and annoyingly) a lot of them really do believe that they know something that so-called 'anti-vaxxers' don't and parrot the term ad-nauseam in order to demonstrate this.

Unfortunately there is this thing called 'ecology' which is way to complex for the average pea-brain vax victims who got their full dose of heavy metals.  For those who do have a few functional neurons left, here is how ecology applies to 'herd immunity' and vice-versa:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlqyj_uyzBc

It also happens to be a very good illustration of why Wakefield had to be destroyed.  Unfortunately for the pharma industry, the guy has proven so dedicated and tenacious nothing short of a bullet in the head seems to be effective at shutting him up.

Interestingly though this particular piece was done some years ago, and I've spend 100's of hours researching the topic, I didn't 'stumble across' the clip until a specialized search on Jewtube just now.  Go figure.

Seems like only the most important ones are being reported about. But there are lasting ill effects in vaccines that way supersede the tiny benefits that might be expected.


Father placed on life support after receiving flu shot… vaccines continue to damage children and adults alike

In isn't only the vaccines.


Chemotherapy revealed as toxic poison for every living cell in the human body: Mitochondrial dysfunction warning from researchers




Go to the article to check out the various additional links to data, and the bibliography.

Well, you don't have to admit you lost regarding the case that Robert Kennedy, Jr. won. Everybody knows it.