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Topic: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who is Sicker? - page 3. (Read 45532 times)

legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
On the same track as ^^^:

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/07/article/china-adopts-tough-vaccine-safety-law/

Seems that the government in China has taken a strong interest in vaccine quality all of a sudden.  I'm sure it's unrelated to the unrelated 'bat soup' coronavirus thnigy which is entirely unrelated because it is an unrelated thing with no relationship to the vaccines.

It's nice that The 'bat soup' coronavirus has been brought under control so that the Chinese government can move on a focus on unrelated things.

Wonder how 'ex post facto' works under Chinese law?

Edit:  My bad.  Not a brand new story.  Looks like it is fallout from an older vaccine scandal which happened about a year ago.

legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
^^^ So it's the result of getting inoculated against the CV, that is the reason why people are dying in China!


Not exactly.  Depends on what you mean by CV.  The often-stated reason for engineering custom CoronaVirus is to find one that you can inject into people which will not cause to much obvious harm right away, but will induce some people to develop an immunity against known ailments*.  If the harm they may cause can be blamed on something else (e.g., eating bats) then that will work.

(*)(Ailments which the Joe Public has been propaganized into thinking are worse than the bubonic plague, ebola, and MERSA all rolled into one.  You know; measles, chicken pox, etc.)

But yes.  The hypothesis is that something they started injecting as soon as they could by law is ultimately causing a crisis.  That's the hypothesis.  And having the cases of 'novel coronavirus' start to the day from when the mandatory vaccination laws took effect is a bit to big of a coincidence to completely ignore.  At least it is to me.

---

How about this:  Double-agent (or duped) Chinese nationals working in BL4 labs in Canada stole what they thought was one coronavirus developed for vaccines but was actually another.  Or the thing they stole was supposed to do one thing which they were fed bogus info about but it caused harm on a much wider scale then they know.

China then uses the stolen substance to make giant batches of vaccine knowing that come 1-Dec-2019 the law would go into effect saying that they can give it to whoever they want with no questions asked.  They probably barely checked test batches that they were cooking up and stockpiling.  And when they did and found a possible problem, whoever found it would likely cover it up since the leadership wanted a certain result.

In the mean time China works their asses off deploying 5G so they can analyze the vaccinated test subject down to monitoring their snoring as they sleep.  With this IOT technology the whole city becomes a lab (and prison) with capabilities that ordinary labs could only dream of.

1-Dec-2019 rolls around and the go order was issued to start dosing people up.  Later that day the first victims start to trickle in, but there is an informal (if not a formal) understanding that the vaccine program is not to be questioned.  Finally after {n} weeks it is to obvious that the vaccine program is the culprit, the injections stop, and full-on cover-up goes into high gear.

The 'spys' working in the West are 'arrested (mostly to protect them if they are double agents.)  the 'eating bats' story is widely circulated on social media.  Mainstream media goes into high gear with a lot of nonsense and big tech goes into high gear to censor everything but the official story and certified supporting material.

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
^^^ So it's the result of getting inoculated against the CV, that is the reason why people are dying in China!

Cool
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
Middle of last year, strong forced vaccination laws came to China:

  https://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/china-vaccine-law-passed/

Currently what is meant by a vaccine 'working' is that it induces antibody production.  It does NOT mean that the recipient has a lowered chance of a negative outcome.  There was strong evidence that although SARS vaccine did increase antibody readings, it ALSO caused the recipient to have a more severe reaction upon re-challenge and it led to deaths in animals in trials.  Never was a SARS vaccine (partly for this reason) so the problem had to go away naturally (and it did.)

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mTa5nOtHFE

Some speculate that using the new laws, the Chinese government tried out some vaccine studies on the ordinary peeps without their knowledge.  Further, it is these test subjects who are dropping like flies and being rounded up under extreme duress.

If this is true, it could partially explain the sudden intense censorship in the West since it would compromise forced vaccination plans here.

Lots of us are watching with interest if the high mortality rates and specific nature of the way people die continues uniformly as 2019-nCoV spreads outside of China.  That observation, and the way it is explained by whom, will be valuable input for analysis.

--- Edit

Just noticed this:
From: https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/02/12/clear-evidence-it-is-not-a-bioweapon-so-whats-all-this-about-ace2-and-ncov-2019-covid-2019/

Quote
...It is likey that B-coronaviruses have been infecting humans for tens if not hundreds of thousands of millenia.

So what’s different in 2019? On Dec 1, a new national vaccine law went into effect. “China is to implement a state immunization program, and residents living within the territory of China are legally obligated to be vaccinated with immunization program vaccines, which are provided by the government free of charge. Local governments and parents or other guardians of children must ensure that children be vaccinated with the immunization program vaccines (art. 6).”

The first reported case of COVID19?

December 1, 2019.
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
The way that is presented, "Never been done before, the first of it's kind, just so does not sound scientific. Sounds like it was a very flawed study with no proper controls. For example limiting it to home schooled children for the unvaxinated group, and more than likely public school children for the vaccinated. That alone makes the study invalid.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373

There is a reason why bioweapon research facilities such as Plum Island are almost always called 'animal disease centers'.  It's not just silly propaganda or a funny joke to the staff and faculty.  They really do study the fuck out of the diseases which often have been first identified in animal stock, and animals are used extensively in the research and production.  Weaponization involves figuring out how to get them to infect a target species (usually homo sapien) and selection of desirable parameters of the infection.  'gain of function.'

People have a mis-understanding that bioweapons always have a high lethality.  Very often such a thing would be a bug rather than a feature.  Plenty of weapons already fit that need.  Non-lethal bioweapons can have a much greater overall impact if they can be deployed over a broad target and over many years.  Subtle effects go undetected but have a huge overall impact.

It is also worth note that most leaderships (rightly) consider the biggest threat to their position to be the population they lead and expend a lot of the resources at their disposal in dealing with the threat.  Further, the population of ones own country is a much more exploitable source of wealth.  With the right kind of medical system, a modestly sick individual can still perform functions in the economy but can be milked by the medical/industrial complex for the rest of their life.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT6gCqulCok


Your hypothesis may seem logical but it lacks a factual evidence. Even if we would guess that all statements are correct then we still have alternative, i. e. natural selection. Which is better because of Occam's razor. And, unlike your hypothesis, this alternative may be proven be wrong so it does satisfy the Popper's criteria. That can't be said about your hypothesis of weaponization of some naturally occurring virus by the people who made a precious illusion of their stupidity.

But when have any of us looked for factual evidence? All we all do is read info posted by others, and we don't even check them out to determine if they are trustworthy.

Natural healing has been around for thousands of years. Modern medical for only a few hundred. Yet millions flock to modern medicine even though its failures seem to be the standard way they work.

Personally, I think that medical popularity is based on the hundredth monkey effect, and that the hundredth monkey effect is based on universal consciousness. The Hundredth Monkey:
The Japanese monkey, Macaca Fuscata, had been observed in the wild for a period of over 30 years.

In 1952, on the island of Koshima, scientists were providing monkeys with sweet potatoes dropped in the sand. The monkey liked the taste of the raw sweet potatoes, but they found the dirt unpleasant.

An 18-month-old female named Imo found she could solve the problem by washing the potatoes in a nearby stream. She taught this trick to her mother. Her playmates also learned this new way and they taught their mothers too.

This cultural innovation was gradually picked up by various monkeys before the eyes of the scientists. Between 1952 and 1958 all the young monkeys learned to wash the sandy sweet potatoes to make them more palatable. Only the adults who imitated their children learned this social improvement. Other adults kept eating the dirty sweet potatoes.

Then something startling took place. In the autumn of 1958, a certain number of Koshima monkeys were washing sweet potatoes -- the exact number is not known. Let us suppose that when the sun rose one morning there were 99 monkeys on Koshima Island who had learned to wash their sweet potatoes. Let's further suppose that later that morning, the hundredth monkey learned to wash potatoes.

THEN IT HAPPENED!

By that evening almost everyone in the tribe was washing sweet potatoes before eating them. The added energy of this hundredth monkey somehow created an ideological breakthrough!

But notice: A most surprising thing observed by these scientists was that the habit of washing sweet potatoes then jumped over the sea...Colonies of monkeys on other islands and the mainland troop of monkeys at Takasakiyama began washing their sweet potatoes.

Thus, when a certain critical number achieves an awareness, this new awareness may be communicated from mind to mind.

Although the exact number may vary, this Hundredth Monkey Phenomenon means that when only a limited number of people know of a new way, it may remain the conscious property of these people.

But there is a point at which if only one more person tunes-in to a new awareness, a field is strengthened so that this awareness is picked up by almost everyone!

From the book "The Hundredth Monkey" by Ken Keyes, Jr.
The book is not copyrighted and the material may be reproduced in whole or in part.

Read the whole book.


Cool
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
Some people would consider it as a living proof of the Bioweapons Engineer existence.

First, humans aren't able to create anything like that. Current level of science is far from fully understanding how this thing actually work and why it doesn't destroy itself.

Second, if you're thinking that HIV was developed as a bioweapon then you must consider that FIV (Feline Immunodeficiency Virus, a cat-specific equivalent of HIV) was artificially created as well. But why would bioweapon engineers need to infect your pet? It's pointless.

There is a reason why bioweapon research facilities such as Plum Island are almost always called 'animal disease centers'.  It's not just silly propaganda or a funny joke to the staff and faculty.  They really do study the fuck out of the diseases which often have been first identified in animal stock, and animals are used extensively in the research and production.  Weaponization involves figuring out how to get them to infect a target species (usually homo sapien) and selection of desirable parameters of the infection.  'gain of function.'

People have a mis-understanding that bioweapons always have a high lethality.  Very often such a thing would be a bug rather than a feature.  Plenty of weapons already fit that need.  Non-lethal bioweapons can have a much greater overall impact if they can be deployed over a broad target and over many years.  Subtle effects go undetected but have a huge overall impact.

It is also worth note that most leaderships (rightly) consider the biggest threat to their position to be the population they lead and expend a lot of the resources at their disposal in dealing with the threat.  Further, the population of ones own country is a much more exploitable source of wealth.  With the right kind of medical system, a modestly sick individual can still perform functions in the economy but can be milked by the medical/industrial complex for the rest of their life.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT6gCqulCok


Your hypothesis may seem logical but it lacks a factual evidence. Even if we would guess that all statements are correct then we still have alternative, i. e. natural selection. Which is better because of Occam's razor. And, unlike your hypothesis, this alternative may be proven be wrong so it does satisfy the Popper's criteria. That can't be said about your hypothesis of weaponization of some naturally occurring virus by the people who made a precious illusion of their stupidity.
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
Some people would consider it as a living proof of the Bioweapons Engineer existence.

First, humans aren't able to create anything like that. Current level of science is far from fully understanding how this thing actually work and why it doesn't destroy itself.

Second, if you're thinking that HIV was developed as a bioweapon then you must consider that FIV (Feline Immunodeficiency Virus, a cat-specific equivalent of HIV) was artificially created as well. But why would bioweapon engineers need to infect your pet? It's pointless.

There is a reason why bioweapon research facilities such as Plum Island are almost always called 'animal disease centers'.  It's not just silly propaganda or a funny joke to the staff and faculty.  They really do study the fuck out of the diseases which often have been first identified in animal stock, and animals are used extensively in the research and production.  Weaponization involves figuring out how to get them to infect a target species (usually homo sapien) and selection of desirable parameters of the infection.  'gain of function.'

People have a mis-understanding that bioweapons always have a high lethality.  Very often such a thing would be a bug rather than a feature.  Plenty of weapons already fit that need.  Non-lethal bioweapons can have a much greater overall impact if they can be deployed over a broad target and over many years.  Subtle effects go undetected but have a huge overall impact.

It is also worth note that most leaderships (rightly) consider the biggest threat to their position to be the population they lead and expend a lot of the resources at their disposal in dealing with the threat.  Further, the population of ones own country is a much more exploitable source of wealth.  With the right kind of medical system, a modestly sick individual can still perform functions in the economy but can be milked by the medical/industrial complex for the rest of their life.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT6gCqulCok

legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
Some people would consider it as a living proof of the Bioweapons Engineer existence.
First, humans aren't able to create anything like that. Current level of science is far from fully understanding how this thing actually work and why it doesn't destroy itself.

Second, if you're thinking that HIV was developed as a bioweapon then you must consider that FIV (Feline Immunodeficiency Virus, a cat-specific equivalent of HIV) was artificially created as well. But why would bioweapon engineers need to infect your pet? It's pointless.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
...

P.S. You can see a funny analogy between HIV, its animal equivalents (FIV, SIV, dozen of others) and polymorphic computer programs. HIV/SIV/FIV mutation rate is so high that it functions on the verge of self-destruction. Therefore, this family of viruses is clearly the best sample of precious engineeging work which nature may provide. Some people would consider it as a living proof of the God existence. Smiley


Some people would consider it as a living proof of the Bioweapons Engineer existence.



Adam and Eve were made perfectly, in a perfect world. This world included natural bacterias and viruses that balanced each other to keep peoples' bodies in perfect operation. That's why the first people lived over 900 years in some cases, even though destructive sin had entered the world. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4465916/.

If people had never sinned, there would be no bioweapons. Even if such were engineered, they would have not worked against the natural protections of people in a perfect world.

The thing that caused the gradual decline and devolution of people is adverse genetic engineering that was started thousands of years ago. It was done in such a way that it would increase, naturally, parents to children, over the years that followed. Less than 100 years of life for people is today's result.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
...

P.S. You can see a funny analogy between HIV, its animal equivalents (FIV, SIV, dozen of others) and polymorphic computer programs. HIV/SIV/FIV mutation rate is so high that it functions on the verge of self-destruction. Therefore, this family of viruses is clearly the best sample of precious engineeging work which nature may provide. Some people would consider it as a living proof of the God existence. Smiley


Some people would consider it as a living proof of the Bioweapons Engineer existence.

legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
as far as I know that viruses get progressed by the time so we also have to progress the vaccination to be suitable to the viruses state and more effective
There are viruses, like VZV (chickenpox), Enterovirus C (polio) or the measles virus, which have very low replication error rate and therefore their genetical complex is considered stable. As the result, one vaccination by alive attenuated vaccine is able to provide lifetime protection.

Some viruses, like type A of flu virus, are mutating quickly enough to make vaccination inefficient in the long term. It only will be effective for short periods, and only if the researches will make a right guess about future epidemic strain.

Others, like HIV, are displaying so high replication errors rate that even short-time effectiveness of vaccination is literally unreachable. You may develop a vaccine but it won't be able to protect anyone, because the blood stream of infected individual contains ~10^10 variations of virus which are unlikely to match a strain used in the vaccine. This is why the so-called HIV vaccine researches are nothing but fraud. These guys are spending money to develop vaccine which won't work by definition. Killed HIV vaccines won't work because they wouldn't match actual strains of the virus. Alive attenuated HIV vaccines won't work because the vaccine strain will mutate until it will become strong enough to cause the desease.

P.S. You can see a funny analogy between HIV, its animal equivalents (FIV, SIV, dozen of others) and polymorphic computer programs. HIV/SIV/FIV mutation rate is so high that it functions on the verge of self-destruction. Therefore, this family of viruses is clearly the best sample of precious engineeging work which nature may provide. Some people would consider it as a living proof of the God existence. Smiley
newbie
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
as far as I know that viruses get progressed by the time so we also have to progress the vaccination to be suitable to the viruses state and more effective
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
I never been vaccinated only in school, and now over years i never had any flu or been sicker, i really think vaccins are not good at all. What vaccin you know Naida is good for coronavirus, there is no vaccin for it.
member
Activity: 980
Merit: 62
I wonder all those people who are against vaccines, would they stay unvaccinated now that Coronavirus is rampant?
I used to be against vaccines but after this pandemia was brought at light I started thinking about it the opposite way.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
^^^ How do people get trained in basic, simple, effective hygiene? If the medical steps in to train them, they get all kinds of false vaccine training at the same time. Government people don't know any better. They believe the medical just like the doctors believe their superiors.

A money grab wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't hurting and killing a bunch of simple people. One-world government might quell wars in ways, but it is only being done so that the leaders can "farm" the populace like a farmer milks his cows.

Is there a way that we or anybody can separate the good of government from the bad?


Amid gang peril, a Mexican village arms its children



He was 13, a B student with a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles bicycle who got nervous around the girls in his middle school.

Then, in November, as violence surged in the mountains of Guerrero state, the men of Ayahualtempa decided it was time for their sons to take up arms.

Alex was handed a hunting rifle and told to show up for daily training on the village basketball court. He and his young comrades, some as young as 6, marched and crawled with loaded guns almost as tall as they were. Their uniforms said "Community Police" in yellow letters.


Cool
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
I live in a country where the local government lacks the funding and organization to give names to streets or to assign houses a street address.  (When they do give street names it is common for many streets to get the same name which indicates to me that the rationale behind giving a street a name didn't really sink in.  But that's not relevant to this discussion.)

Said country is one of those named in Kissinger's NSSM200 where achieving a desirable head count in the country is of "paramount importance" to U.S. national security.

Just today there was something so important that three local officials showed up at our doorstep.  First time anyone from the government has done so (thankfully.)  This critically important mission?  Take notes on a minor they knew was on premise and give said minor 'vitamin shots'.  (I actually don't know for sure that they wanted to do injections to get the baby the 'vitamins' rather than drops.  We didn't get that far.  But I know that 'health workers' do make the rounds to rural public schools with 'vitamin shot' needles in hand.)

A thinking person has to wonder where the funding for this 'vitamin shots' operation came from and who, exactly, is setting the priorities.  I mean this is an area where sewage flows in open ditches to the ocean and lots of kids live in houses built on bamboo stilts over the area were the ditched sewage hits sea-level.  Seems like there would be more low-hanging fruit in terms of spending money to foster better public health.  In fairness, I will say that garbage service is free and fairly reliable.  That is obviously a giant contribution to public health.  Probably the single most important thing a government can do.

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373

Wow, I watched that an hour before your post.  Here's my favorite comment:

Quote from: Prof. Heidi Larson, PhD, Director of the Vaccine Confidence Project

We have a very wobbly health professional front line that is starting to question vaccines
and the safety of vaccines. When the front line professionals are starting to question or
they don’t feel like they have enough confidence about the safety to stand up to it to the
person asking them the questions.  I mean most medical school curriculums, even nursing
curriculums, I mean in medical school you’re lucky if you have a half-day on vaccines.
Never mind keeping up to date with all this.


The fact that doctors are FINALLY starting to question these things is extremely good news to me.  Doctors are already chaffing under a variety of other insults brought about by socialized corp/gov controlled medical system.  They are nearly universally bright people and sometimes good people as well.  Lots of them will (and do) keep their traps shut and quietly avoid doing their own kids, but there will surely be more and more pressure as they are forced to inject the innocent with stuff they don't have confidence in.  Especially since more and more of the victims are themselves wising up and pitching a bitch.

I looks to me very much as though it's going to be a bumpy road ahead for the vaccine programs.  The harder they push, the stronger the resistance and the more intense will be the backlash when it comes.


Everything we do regarding our relationships with other people in life, has to do with trust. In fundamental law, trust and trusts are the most important things. The breaking of a trust is one of the greatest damning positions one can find himself in... if caught and exposed.

Doctors trust those who teach them. Why? Because they can't do all the experiments to factually prove for themselves that the things they have learned are the truth.

People trust their doctors because they can't do more than a few of the experiments that show that the doctors know what they are talking about. But, people are figuring out by timing and coincidence that vaccines are not what the medical promotes them to be.

It isn't only the money that Big Pharma is after. It is the saving of their own lives when the people find out what Big Pharma is doing to them... a breach of trust.

Same said for climate-change propagandists, and any other promotion that is patently false.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276

Wow, I watched that an hour before your post.  Here's my favorite comment:

Quote from: Prof. Heidi Larson, PhD, Director of the Vaccine Confidence Project

We have a very wobbly health professional front line that is starting to question vaccines
and the safety of vaccines. When the front line professionals are starting to question or
they don’t feel like they have enough confidence about the safety to stand up to it to the
person asking them the questions.  I mean most medical school curriculums, even nursing
curriculums, I mean in medical school you’re lucky if you have a half-day on vaccines.
Never mind keeping up to date with all this.


The fact that doctors are FINALLY starting to question these things is extremely good news to me.  Doctors are already chaffing under a variety of other insults brought about by socialized corp/gov controlled medical system.  They are nearly universally bright people and sometimes good people as well.  Lots of them will (and do) keep their traps shut and quietly avoid doing their own kids, but there will surely be more and more pressure as they are forced to inject the innocent with stuff they don't have confidence in.  Especially since more and more of the victims are themselves wising up and pitching a bitch.

I looks to me very much as though it's going to be a bumpy road ahead for the vaccine programs.  The harder they push, the stronger the resistance and the more intense will be the backlash when it comes.

hero member
Activity: 2618
Merit: 548
SecureShift.io | Crypto-Exchange
Its really a nice debate that who is healthier either vaccinated or unvaccinated . On review vaccination is given only to prevent the for coming diseases but cent percent it is not assured that vaccination results in complete eradication. Unvaccinated has higher risk of attack of diseases.
Some vaccines like DPT is common now to avoid the contamination from one to another. TT is another very common used. Vaccines may be live attenuated or killed.
Pregnant women must take vaccines to prevent risk of miscarriage. For children polio is given which is universally accepted.
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