I understand, you already posted about that.
Then why are you still pretending like there's a chance these scamming sites are providing a service?
Topic: Wasabi Wallet - Open Source, Noncustodial Coinjoin Software - page 5. (Read 10786 times)
Then why are you still pretending like there's a chance these scamming sites are providing a service?
many of them also try to build a real mixing service to make their users' outputs untraceable after the mix, no?
No, they don't. I already explained this to you:
I'm talking about a hypothetical mixing service that actually does everything right, which may also exist somewhere, no?
Yeah, that's exactly my point that proves o_e_l_e_o and BlackHatCoiner's goal is to scam users out of both their coins AND their data. You can't possibly mistake these scammers for "Privacy Advocates" since the custodians they promote don't provide any privacy whatsoever, despite the option for these custodians to issue fully anonymous Chaumian Ecash.
These custodial sites do not issue Chaumian ecash. These custodial sites do not issue coins on a sidechain with confidential transactions. "Mixing sites" offer absolutely zero privacy whatsoever to depositors in the process of stealing their coins.
I understand, you already posted about that. But that's not actual data/proof/evidence to your claim that the entire Bitcoin "Centralized Mixing Industry" are scams that are operated by scammers, no?
Plus ser, relax. I'm not accusing you of lying nor am I saying that no one should listen to you. I'm merely asking if there's actual data to prove those claims. Because if there's none, let's merely go back on topic and talk about Wasabi.
many of them also try to build a real mixing service to make their users' outputs untraceable after the mix, no?
No, they don't. I already explained this to you:
I'm talking about a hypothetical mixing service that actually does everything right, which may also exist somewhere, no?
Yeah, that's exactly my point that proves o_e_l_e_o and BlackHatCoiner's goal is to scam users out of both their coins AND their data. You can't possibly mistake these scammers for "Privacy Advocates" since the custodians they promote don't provide any privacy whatsoever, despite the option for these custodians to issue fully anonymous Chaumian Ecash.
These custodial sites do not issue Chaumian ecash. These custodial sites do not issue coins on a sidechain with confidential transactions. "Mixing sites" offer absolutely zero privacy whatsoever to depositors in the process of stealing their coins.
BUT like you posted in your post before, you have no data to the claim that any/all centralized mixers are mere wallets that do not mix their users' outputs. No data = no proof = ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The burden of proof is on you, not me.
I didn't make any accusations/assumptions.
Although you might be right that SOME centralized mixers might be actual scams that don't actually mix their users' outputs, many of them also try to build a real mixing service to make their users' outputs untraceable after the mix, no? But you can't accept that and merely accuse ALL centralized mixers as mere hot wallets that mix their users' outputs.
OK, you're passionate about truth, understandable. Your data/proof?
BUT like you posted in your post before, you have no data to the claim that any/all centralized mixers are mere wallets that do not mix their users' outputs. No data = no proof = ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The burden of proof is on you, not me.
Because not all centralized mixers are built the same, no? Although you make a good point of telling us that there are bad actors out there, but there must be those good ones that do provide an actual service of making users' outputs untraceable?
I already explained this to you:
I'm talking about a hypothetical mixing service that actually does everything right, which may also exist somewhere, no?
Yeah, that's exactly my point that proves o_e_l_e_o and BlackHatCoiner's goal is to scam users out of both their coins AND their data. You can't possibly mistake these scammers for "Privacy Advocates" since the custodians they promote don't provide any privacy whatsoever, despite the option for these custodians to issue fully anonymous Chaumian Ecash.
There probably are/will be bad actors that operate centralized mixers and centralized coordinators, BUT like you posted in your post before, you have no data to the claim that any/all centralized mixers are mere wallets that do not mix their users' outputs. No data = no proof = ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But I truly respect you ser, and I respect your passion for privacy, and your journey as a privacy advocate. 👍
Because not all centralized mixers are built the same, no? Although you make a good point of telling us that there are bad actors out there, but there must be those good ones that do provide an actual service of making users' outputs untraceable?
I already explained this to you:
I'm talking about a hypothetical mixing service that actually does everything right, which may also exist somewhere, no?
Yeah, that's exactly my point that proves o_e_l_e_o and BlackHatCoiner's goal is to scam users out of both their coins AND their data. You can't possibly mistake these scammers for "Privacy Advocates" since the custodians they promote don't provide any privacy whatsoever, despite the option for these custodians to issue fully anonymous Chaumian Ecash.
!!! WARNING - DO NOT LISTEN TO SCAMMER PMALEK, HE PARTNERED WITH SINBAD TO TRICK BITCOINTALK USERS INTO LEAKING THEIR DATA TO THE GOVERNMENT:
To all criminal users of former mixer Sinbad.io,
This is a collective warning issued by the Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office.
Our investigation has uncovered illicit activities on this mixer platform and the logs obtained have compromised the anonymity of numerous users.
We urge all criminal users and admins of mixers to cease all unlawful actions immediately. Persistent engagement will lead to severe legal consequences. We are resolute in pursuing and prosecuting all involved in criminal activities.
Your anonymity is no longer assured. Law enforcement actions are imminent.
With Vigilance,
Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office
This is a collective warning issued by the Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office.
Our investigation has uncovered illicit activities on this mixer platform and the logs obtained have compromised the anonymity of numerous users.
We urge all criminal users and admins of mixers to cease all unlawful actions immediately. Persistent engagement will lead to severe legal consequences. We are resolute in pursuing and prosecuting all involved in criminal activities.
Your anonymity is no longer assured. Law enforcement actions are imminent.
With Vigilance,
Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office
@Wind_FURY
Welcome to Kruw's scammers list and his blackbook of fury that he keeps on his nightstand next to his Wasabi flag. How does it feel having your name added to the group of people, who in the sick mind of Kruw, must return the money they scammed? It always pleases me to see Kruw's small meltdowns coupled with bigger writing and colored.
Have government agencies taken down services and websites they don't agree with and arrested/attacked developers and team members? Yes, they have. They will try to destroy everything that is opposite of their interests and which they can't personally control.
Now, who do they not attack, arrest, and take down? Those on their payroll, those who cooperate and help in inflicting damage on others, and honeypots.
Stay clear of Kruw's coordinator everyone! It's not worth it.
Welcome to Kruw's scammers list and his blackbook of fury that he keeps on his nightstand next to his Wasabi flag. How does it feel having your name added to the group of people, who in the sick mind of Kruw, must return the money they scammed? It always pleases me to see Kruw's small meltdowns coupled with bigger writing and colored.
Have government agencies taken down services and websites they don't agree with and arrested/attacked developers and team members? Yes, they have. They will try to destroy everything that is opposite of their interests and which they can't personally control.
Now, who do they not attack, arrest, and take down? Those on their payroll, those who cooperate and help in inflicting damage on others, and honeypots.
Stay clear of Kruw's coordinator everyone! It's not worth it.
!!! REMEMBER THE ADMINISTRATOR'S WARNING NOT TO TRUST "MIXING SITES" AND USE WASABI INSTEAD !!!
Congratulations to the Wasabi and JoinMarket developers! JoinMarket pioneered a lot of CoinJoin science (and BTW, belcher wrote an excellent & comprehensive wiki article on privacy), while Wasabi is the first wallet that implements CoinJoin in both a highly-usable and sound way. As both a signer and a donor to the CoinJoin bounty fund, I'm thrilled that these two pieces of software exist!
For everyone looking to improve their privacy, I highly recommend checking out Wasabi, especially over centralized "mixers".
For everyone looking to improve their privacy, I highly recommend checking out Wasabi, especially over centralized "mixers".
@Wind_FURY
Welcome to Kruw's scammers list and his blackbook of fury that he keeps on his nightstand next to his Wasabi flag. How does it feel having your name added to the group of people, who in the sick mind of Kruw, must return the money they scammed? It always pleases me to see Kruw's small meltdowns coupled with bigger writing and colored.
Have government agencies taken down services and websites they don't agree with and arrested/attacked developers and team members? Yes, they have. They will try to destroy everything that is opposite of their interests and which they can't personally control.
Now, who do they not attack, arrest, and take down? Those on their payroll, those who cooperate and help in inflicting damage on others, and honeypots.
Stay clear of Kruw's coordinator everyone! It's not worth it.
Welcome to Kruw's scammers list and his blackbook of fury that he keeps on his nightstand next to his Wasabi flag. How does it feel having your name added to the group of people, who in the sick mind of Kruw, must return the money they scammed? It always pleases me to see Kruw's small meltdowns coupled with bigger writing and colored.
Have government agencies taken down services and websites they don't agree with and arrested/attacked developers and team members? Yes, they have. They will try to destroy everything that is opposite of their interests and which they can't personally control.
Now, who do they not attack, arrest, and take down? Those on their payroll, those who cooperate and help in inflicting damage on others, and honeypots.
Stay clear of Kruw's coordinator everyone! It's not worth it.
Data to prove your claim?
I didn't make any data based claims.
OK, thanks for your honesty.
Centralized mixers might have flaws, there might be weaknesses, but those entities actually making no effort of mixing their users' outputs?
A mixing site is not "flawed". A mixing site does not have "weaknesses". A mixing site has LITERALLY NO PRIVACY ASPECTS WHATSOEVER, A MIXING SITE JUST GENERATES A DEPOSIT ADDRESS FOR THE SCAMMER'S WALLET.
Data to confirm your claims?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Because not all centralized mixers are built the same, no? Although you make a good point of telling us that there are bad actors out there, but there must be those good ones that do provide an actual service of making users' outputs untraceable?
Ironically Kruw, you quoted FIOD and they themselves mention Anonymity being an effect of the Mixing Service Sinbad was offering,
Yet there is still no proof what so ever that all these Services you are accusing have never offered any level of Privacy to their Customers and that any of us has advertised a Scam while knowing it was a Scam.
Your anonymity is no longer assured.
Yet there is still no proof what so ever that all these Services you are accusing have never offered any level of Privacy to their Customers and that any of us has advertised a Scam while knowing it was a Scam.
Your quote proves me right and proves you wrong since the privacy of Sinbad's users was compromised by the government. Humiliating.
I wonder what kind of level of frustration somebody needs to continue back stabbing a person who we have lost long ago and write in the largest font size possible, this seems desperate to be honest.
It gets even funnier. Wind_FURY who supported Kruw every time he was right is now being back stabbed by Kruw for not agreeing with him once.
Ironically Kruw, you quoted FIOD and they themselves mention Anonymity being an effect of the Mixing Service Sinbad was offering,
Yet there is still no proof what so ever that all these Services you are accusing have never offered any level of Privacy to their Customers and that any of us has advertised a Scam while knowing it was a Scam.
EVEN IF any of these Mixers were actual Scams, it does not mean any of the Bitcoin Talk Signature wearers ever wanted to be participants to a Scam. This is ridiculous to assume, particularly considering that most of us never even interacted directly with those Services but were simply wearing their Signature code or were satisfied Customers, or both.
It gets even funnier. Wind_FURY who supported Kruw every time he was right is now being back stabbed by Kruw for not agreeing with him once.
Ironically Kruw, you quoted FIOD and they themselves mention Anonymity being an effect of the Mixing Service Sinbad was offering,
Your anonymity is no longer assured.
Yet there is still no proof what so ever that all these Services you are accusing have never offered any level of Privacy to their Customers and that any of us has advertised a Scam while knowing it was a Scam.
EVEN IF any of these Mixers were actual Scams, it does not mean any of the Bitcoin Talk Signature wearers ever wanted to be participants to a Scam. This is ridiculous to assume, particularly considering that most of us never even interacted directly with those Services but were simply wearing their Signature code or were satisfied Customers, or both.
In the case of Kruw, people that think they are getting a free lunch might find themselves being eaten for dinner 
I think the reason cited by Open Coordinator will be accepted by many. They have explained their rationale for having a period of 0% coinjoin fees for their coordinating service (but they will start charging in future after giving advance notice on their website).
Even if the Kruw Coordinator has the overall coinjoined Bitcoins, thankfully the percentage of recent coinjoins are going in favour of Open Coordinator 131% increase against just 5% for Kruw as people move away from his coordinator. Even Ginger Wallet with their fees have made 44% increase therefore hopefully his coordinator will continue to lose users.
I think the reason cited by Open Coordinator will be accepted by many. They have explained their rationale for having a period of 0% coinjoin fees for their coordinating service (but they will start charging in future after giving advance notice on their website).
Even if the Kruw Coordinator has the overall coinjoined Bitcoins, thankfully the percentage of recent coinjoins are going in favour of Open Coordinator 131% increase against just 5% for Kruw as people move away from his coordinator. Even Ginger Wallet with their fees have made 44% increase therefore hopefully his coordinator will continue to lose users.
There is an old saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch. If something is free, then you are the product. Be suspicious of people trying to lure you in with promises of free services of extraordinary quality, great benefits and bonuses. Kruw wants you to use his honeypot coordinator for a reason. Don't fall for it.
Data to prove your claim?
I didn't make any data based claims.
Centralized mixers might have flaws, there might be weaknesses, but those entities actually making no effort of mixing their users' outputs?
A mixing site is not "flawed". A mixing site does not have "weaknesses". A mixing site has LITERALLY NO PRIVACY ASPECTS WHATSOEVER, A MIXING SITE JUST GENERATES A DEPOSIT ADDRESS FOR THE SCAMMER'S WALLET.
There is an old saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch. If something is free, then you are the product. Be suspicious of people trying to lure you in with promises of free services of extraordinary quality, great benefits and bonuses. Kruw wants you to use his honeypot coordinator for a reason. Don't fall for it.
.!!! WARNING FROM THE SITE ADMINISTRATOR: DO NOT TRUST SCAMMER PMALEK AND HIS "MIXING SITES", USE TRUSTLESS WASABI INSTEAD !!!
Congratulations to the Wasabi and JoinMarket developers! JoinMarket pioneered a lot of CoinJoin science (and BTW, belcher wrote an excellent & comprehensive wiki article on privacy), while Wasabi is the first wallet that implements CoinJoin in both a highly-usable and sound way. As both a signer and a donor to the CoinJoin bounty fund, I'm thrilled that these two pieces of software exist!
For everyone looking to improve their privacy, I highly recommend checking out Wasabi, especially over centralized "mixers".
For everyone looking to improve their privacy, I highly recommend checking out Wasabi, especially over centralized "mixers".
PMALEK BACKSTABBED THE BITCOINTALK COMMUNITY BY PARTNERING WITH THE SINBAD "MIXING SITE" TO CREATE A DATA HONEYPOT FOR THE GOVERNMENT:
Pmalek and WIND_FURY, your choice to lure people into depositing their coins into a "Mixing Site" has led to their data being turned over to the government:
To all criminal users of former mixer Sinbad.io,
This is a collective warning issued by the Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office.
Our investigation has uncovered illicit activities on this mixer platform and the logs obtained have compromised the anonymity of numerous users.
We urge all criminal users and admins of mixers to cease all unlawful actions immediately. Persistent engagement will lead to severe legal consequences. We are resolute in pursuing and prosecuting all involved in criminal activities.
Your anonymity is no longer assured. Law enforcement actions are imminent.
With Vigilance,
Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office
This is a collective warning issued by the Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office.
Our investigation has uncovered illicit activities on this mixer platform and the logs obtained have compromised the anonymity of numerous users.
We urge all criminal users and admins of mixers to cease all unlawful actions immediately. Persistent engagement will lead to severe legal consequences. We are resolute in pursuing and prosecuting all involved in criminal activities.
Your anonymity is no longer assured. Law enforcement actions are imminent.
With Vigilance,
Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office
There is an old saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch. If something is free, then you are the product. Be suspicious of people trying to lure you in with promises of free services of extraordinary quality, great benefits and bonuses. Kruw wants you to use his honeypot coordinator for a reason. Don't fall for it.
where's the data that those services actually didn't do their jobs in mixing their users' outputs? They probably did mix them, no?
No, we already established these sites do absolutely no "mixing" whatsoever, it's just a deposit address for the scammer's wallet:
Because if the entity you call "the wallet" actually mixes their users' outputs well, then who are you to tell everyone that "there's no underlying purpose for its existence"? If it's a service and does the service well, then it's up to you to use it, or not to use it.
The entity's wallet doesn't mix users' outputs at all.
Data to prove your claim?
Centralized mixers might have flaws, there might be weaknesses, but those entities actually making no effort of mixing their users' outputs?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Reminder from the forum admin that you should NOT TRUST "mixing sites" with your privacy and use Wasabi instead:
You are a traitor to Bitcoin. You backstabbed Satoshi.
Congratulations to the Wasabi and JoinMarket developers! JoinMarket pioneered a lot of CoinJoin science (and BTW, belcher wrote an excellent & comprehensive wiki article on privacy), while Wasabi is the first wallet that implements CoinJoin in both a highly-usable and sound way. As both a signer and a donor to the CoinJoin bounty fund, I'm thrilled that these two pieces of software exist!
For everyone looking to improve their privacy, I highly recommend checking out Wasabi, especially over centralized "mixers".
For everyone looking to improve their privacy, I highly recommend checking out Wasabi, especially over centralized "mixers".
In an America obsessed with the fight against privacy and restricting freedom of speech, we have Wasabi and Kruw as individuals and services they aren't taking actions against. While other developers of privacy software are being jailed and persecuted, Kruw shows his face online and talks privacy. Do not use his honeypot coordinator service. If it was as good as he is trying to make you think it is, it would be outlawed and he would be in jail already or have charges against him. Don't trust honeypots!
You are a traitor to Bitcoin. You backstabbed Satoshi.
👀
Ser, pardon me for intruding in your conversation, but this is not a cult and I believe Satoshi himself would find your post clearly and utterly laughable.
Without even delving too much on the rights and/or wrongs of what he is claiming, what can be agreed upon is that Kruw is obsessed with several members. He probably feels it will boost his ego if he were to constantly challenge several of them and if he were to keep on attacking a member that has already left the forum because of long standing health conditions.
Actually, I just care about the sovereignty and privacy of Bitcoiners. Good guess though.
Without even delving too much on the rights and/or wrongs of what he is claiming, what can be agreed upon is that Kruw is obsessed with several members. He probably feels it will boost his ego if he were to constantly challenge several of them and if he were to keep on attacking a member that has already left the forum because of long standing health conditions.
All the context is there for you, here's the direct quotes from o_e_l_e_o where he was using Chipmixer to scam Wasabi users:
After 10 months, you are still writing about o_e_l_e_o and as far as I can see, you have not convinced anyone of the meaningfulness of your claims.
Also, the post you point to does not contain any evidence of the scam you are talking about.
Also, the post you point to does not contain any evidence of the scam you are talking about.
All the context is there for you, here's the direct quotes from o_e_l_e_o where he was using Chipmixer to scam Wasabi users:
ChipMixer easily has the best and longest standing reputation among all bitcoin mixers.
CoinJoin service: Wasabi / Samourai / JoinMarket
Wasabi now spy on their users and censor transactions, so I would no longer recommend them.If projects such as Samourai, JoinMarket, ChipMixer, Bisq, LocalCryptos, Monero, and anything else which gives users as good or better privacy than Wasabi can continue unencumbered, then Wasabi can too. They simply choose not to.
And if you depend on third parties, then you are subjected to their rules, spying, and censorship, as we have seen in the case of Wasabi.
By using Sparrow you are still depending on third parties, but at least those third parties aren't in cahoots with blockchain analysis companies. But if that is still too complex for the average user to use without compromising their privacy in some manner, then you can just stick to ChipMixer.
By using Sparrow you are still depending on third parties, but at least those third parties aren't in cahoots with blockchain analysis companies. But if that is still too complex for the average user to use without compromising their privacy in some manner, then you can just stick to ChipMixer.
Remember that you already reviewed the evidence I compiled against o_e_l_e_o but couldn't point to a single flaw:
What is wrong in this thread? Use a direct quote.
This thread currently has 8 pages and over 150 posts, if you haven't figured out what's wrong here, I certainly can't explain it to you in one post. That's why I have no intention of explaining anything to you, it's pointless.
If anyone me also here does not respond to your questions, it does not mean that no one has more arguments, it means that no one wants to continue the discussion in the way you started here.
o_e_l_e_o did use his reputation for these purposes, he partnered with Chipmixer to scam people, I've extensively documented the evidence in this thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-farewell-5482198
After 10 months, you are still writing about o_e_l_e_o and as far as I can see, you have not convinced anyone of the meaningfulness of your claims.Also, the post you point to does not contain any evidence of the scam you are talking about.
I have read pages of o_e_l_e_o's posts and I can say that he was truly standing for privacy.
No, o_e_l_e_o was anti-privacy, he was hired by a blockchain analysis company:
If he was convincing people and trying to scam them, then he wouldn't leave the forum because he was the most reputable and recognized member of this forum and he could continue using his reputation for the purposes that you describe.
o_e_l_e_o did use his reputation for these purposes, he partnered with Chipmixer to scam people, I've extensively documented the evidence in this thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-farewell-5482198
The problem with your service is that it cooperates with blockchain analysis technologies, did you forget that? If Wasabi wasn't cooperating with them and wasn't funding them, then there wouldn't be any problem with your service, that's all.
You have this literally backwards, it was o_e_l_e_o and BlackHatCoiner who were funded by a blockchain analysis company.
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