Topic: What happens to the wicked upon death? - page 11. (Read 6591 times)

At the second coming of Christ, the kingdom of God to set up and it possesses only some nations. The people that survive the second coming, create other nations that are not part of the Kingdom of God.
These are the ones that Satan deceives when he is loosed.
The Kingdom of God is not a one world government.
Those in the Kingdom of God have eternal life, that's what it means when it says there will be those who will be cast out where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth... weeping and gnashing of teeth is a place where death still occurs. Those outside the kingdom will be just flat out human and mortal, they still die.
 
Once you take the fairytale magic off of religion you find a very simple story.

Zolace,
Jude 1:7 ...'Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.'

2 Peter 2:6 ...'And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly.'

Yes eternal fire is mentioned in your Matt 25 and also in Jude talking about the same fate for the wicked, yes they ALL end up in the lake of fire, but as in Sodom and Gomorrha the fire is no longer burning. The eternal fire is speaking of God, an eternal, consuming fire. We have discussed the forever translation

We do have in Matthew 25 the wicked ending up in the same place as the devil and his angels, in agreement with Rev 20.  Sounds like Jesus is referring to the Lake of Fire here.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:

I mention that as, sana's post which discusses three places of hell points out that the second one is just in reference to fallen angels.

But Jesus then refers to this place above that both fallen angels and the unsaved end up in.  So, the fallen angels are perhaps in one till judgement time.  Below in 2nd Peter it refers to that.

4 For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 and spared not the ancient world, but preserved Noah with seven others, a preacher of righteousness, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly;
7 and delivered righteous Lot, sore distressed by the lascivious life of the wicked
8 (for that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] lawless deeds):
9 the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment;

The same that everyone else: nothing.

If you would take a huge wall and do a flow chart on the events, it actually becomes very clear.You can't have one event occurring before another, but once it gets sorted out, creates a pretty interesting little picture.

As I said you can go by what you think or you can go by what the Scriptures say...
at the end of the thousand years, Satan is loosed.
The events that surround that bring in the judgment of God.
After Satan is put to death, then comes the resurrection of the dead.

During the judgment of the dead, there is no more Satan, no more deception.

Not sure about your idea on the judgment process. The dead live after the 1000 years and so is satan loosed at that time. The battle against Gods temple then takes place and God "devours them with fire" finally and for good. This is the final lake of fire where "each man has his part" this is where i see the final judgment come into play as our sins will be tested by this fire. For some the test hard for others easier

And one must go by what the Scripture says, not what a person thinks.
Because when you go by what you think, you end up in the middle of nowhere.
And we haven't even covered, how they are resurrected in their generations starting with the last.
How long this whole period of time takes.
What is the reward of those who make it through this judgment.

There is a lot more going on than meets the eye...

Now granted this is just a very small thumbnail sketch, to completely study this out, there's not much of the Bible you do not use...
hundreds of Scriptures on top of hundreds of Scriptures.
Understanding judgment, judging, judgments etc., understanding what death is. What righteousness is, what are the attributes of the saved. Who Satan is what is his outcome etc. etc.
he is put to death, we walk on his ashes... can't be ruling an eternal hellfire in that state... can he?

Actually, when it says in the Revelation that there will no longer be any sea, the sea that it is talking about is the sea of people who have all kinds of religions and philosophies. At that time there will only be people who believe in God... no more sea.

We seem then to be in agreement that there is suffering for sin after death - just a matter of when (which hell, etc) and for how long.

That has to do with the materialistic part of us.  What houses us (though some believe we are our body).

What happens to the wicked upon death?
The same thing that happens to the saved...

they die, they cease to exist.

Unless there is a resurrection, then they will be dead for all of eternity.

Now for the saved, their resurrection takes place at the second coming.
Interesting study on what that is all about.


For the rest of the dead, it takes place 1000 years later, than they face the judgment.
And another interesting study on what this is all about.
But a thumbnail sketch...

Now for the saved...
it says very plainly, every man shall die and then comes the judgment.
For the saved, the baptism is a symbolism of death.
1st Peter 4:17 their judgment takes place after the baptism.
They are judged by Jesus.

The rest of the dead, as said above, their judgment takes place 1000 years after the second coming.
These are judged by God.
Now what is the judgment?
What is he judging?
How long does this judgment take?

Actually it's incredibly fascinating how this all works...

now what is the punishment?
For those who do not make it through the judgment, the punishment is death, they die.
And their punishment is eternal, it is the second death and there is no resurrection from the second death.

That does not mean they live for eternity in a hellfire.

It says they die and they die for all of eternity, they will cease to exist and they will be completely forgotten.
It will be as if they never existed.

A way to think about that is, there have been approximately 100,000,000,000 people that have lived on this planet.
How many of them do you remember?
Even in your own family tree?


a few thousand in the history books?
As time goes by, they will be forgotten.

After their death, their bodies will be thrown into the lake of fire...
what is this lake of fire?

From the strong concordance...

valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

In the time of Jesus, this was the city dump, always burning, it is where the criminals bodies were thrown etc. etc.

What is fun with a lot of this is people change the words, it says it is an everlasting punishment, it does not say it's an everlasting punishing, the punishment is eternal.
They're not continually punished, they are punished once and for all.

It also states their bodies are thrown into this lake of fire.
So they are dead already when their bodies are thrown into this lake of fire.
Eventually this fire will go out.

Now in contrast, it is stated that Jesus will throw the false prophet and the beast into this lake of fire alive.

They will not receive the mercy of being put to death first.

All of this takes place upon the earth...
Satan and his fallen angels, they are put to death, yes they die. They do not have eternal life, they have inherent life.
Meaning they live until they are put to death.
Humans do not have inherent life.
This is why the gift to those who come up in the first resurrection, at the second coming, they receive the gift of eternal life.
It is something we do not have.
And that gift will not be given to a person of corrupt thinking...
just because you are baptized and you believe you are saved does not mean you will make it.

Now a lot of people think when the judgment of God takes place, he will be reading off what they did in their human lives.
That's not what happens.
A person that is not saved, God considers them dead, there is no record kept.
Matthew 8:22 (starting point)
So when a person is resurrected into the judgment of God, their judgment is just beginning.
Acts 17:31
now when this takes place, belief and faith are no longer relevant, because everyone will be able to see God and Jesus, the Saints, the Angels etc. etc.
And there is no longer salvation...
in essence they live another lifetime, and they are judged in righteousness...
and what is righteousness?
Psa 119:172

God didn't create evil. The devil created evil when he created destruction.

In an effort to create freedom, God created free will. In doing so, he gave us and the devil an aspect of Himself.

Right now, if you have a knife with you, you can take it and plunge it through your arm. Most sane people wouldn't do this kind of thing without a very good reason. However, some sick people might do it and think that they liked it.

God warned Adam and Eve to not eat the fruit. The devil convinced them that they should. They did it freely. Does this make God a producer of evil? Hardly.

Suppose God hadn't given us free will. We would be like robots, like the animals, destined to follow instinct rather than freedom of choice.

Don't blame God that you are doing almost the greatest evil possible, ignoring the existence of God. It won't hurt God. It won't hurt me. It will only hurt you. It will be worse than stabbing yourself with a knife. The thing that will make it really bad for you is that you have been warned, but choose to go on your willful way anyway. Yet, nobody is going to take your freedom away from you. Why not? Because you wouldn't be you without your freedom. And God had hoped you would use your freedom in better ways.

When you die your molecules are recycled rather more thoroughly than while you are alive.

This verse is in relation to things happening "in the twinkling of an eye" so would be those destroyed,("the dead live not again until the 1000 years are done", i think Rev 20) this isn't the final judgment, its the first resurrection of the saved, which starts the 1000 year rein, and satan bound. At the end he is loosed for a short season for the final battle then judgment

That's where your Rev20; 12, 13, 14, 15 comes in and i would say the testing of works are done and ultimately burned up....everything

I'll try and expand more within a fews days when i have time, you forced my hand bringing in the 1000 year rein which i'm a starting to see as how this pans out

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, [even] the lake of fire.
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

that verse from 2 Thess need not necessarily refer to being consumed instantly, with no time in the lake of fire later.

Either, as you say, they are not existant until judgement day, or they are in some conscious existance till then, either way, in Rev 20, even the wicked from today are then judged and cast in the lake of fire.

They will be instantly put to death by fire( 2 Thess 2;8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:)at the first resurrection, for those who believe in 2 resurrections, the second death is the judgment where each answers for their works. It would be consistent when seeing such things as "it will be more tolerable for some than others", BTW, some may be consumed instantly, but some won't

Revelation 20:12 ...'and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books,according to their works.'

Revelation 21:6-8 ...'And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.'