Topic: What happens to the wicked upon death? - page 15. (Read 6599 times)
OH NO, not another religious thread. God damn it, keep al that BS to your self
Obviously in this life, the evil can prosper while those who do good may suffer. So, we can see evil is not always dealt with in this life.
"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.
"The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish. Psalm 146:4
"The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish. Psalm 146:4
Revelation 6:9-11
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.
EDIT: Seems to me that, before the final judgment, the dead remain inhabiting the earth. After all, the souls of the righteous were made up of people who had died throughout all the ages. So the dead that inhabit the earth are from all ages as well. Their souls are in prison on earth, being held for the great day of judgment.
I believe that if one is "wicked".......he is dealt with in this life. It's called karma.I do not believe that there's a judgemental "god" who sits on a throne and passes sentence on his "creations"......
So that either means you believe 'god' is ok with the wicked, or...that 'god' does not exist. If the latter, then, what makes someone wicked? If there is no absolute standard, then are you saying that Hitler is wicked by one standard, not so by another, and who is anyone to judge which standard is wrong?
I believe that if one is "wicked".......he is dealt with in this life. It's called karma.I do not believe that there's a judgemental "god" who sits on a throne and passes sentence on his "creations"......
Hell is not a place of eternal torture like some churches make you believe.
In the original text there is also a difference between Sheol (or hades in Greek) and Gehinnom (gehenna in Greek).
Sheol is the 'default' state of the dead, in other words 99.9% of people who die rest in Sheol. It's just the state of not living and it's like a long dreamless sleep. Even Jesus was in Sheol for several days after he died and before he resurrected. Some translation write that Jesus was in hell during that time. Clearly Jesus was not in 'hell' as most if us see hell. I mean why would Jesus need to be send to hell for three days?
Clearly hell is not a place for the bad to go to, or at least Sheol is not. In fact some persons even asked to be send to hell (Sheol) because being in Sheol would be better than to live under their circumstances.
Jewish tradition became infiltrated by Greek doctrine of immortal souls, that's what eventually caused the spreading of the concept of the immortal souls going to heaven or hell, based on their live. This was however never the idea the bible wanted to give us. The Catholic Church spread this misinformation even more.
Ecclesiastes chapter 9 verse 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, (Sheol) where you are going.
Verse 5 and 6 of the same chapter: For the living know* that they will die,+ but the dead know nothing at all,+ nor do they have any more reward,* because all memory of them is forgotten.+ 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.
Psalms 16:10 For you will not leave me in the Grave. (Sheol)
You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.
Job 14:13 13 O that in the Grave (Sheol) you would conceal me,
That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
Here you see job actually ask god to conceal him in Sheol (sometimes translated as hell). Certainly he would not ask to be send to hell if he thought hell was a place of torture!
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Pretty much the only time there is spoken about a lake of fire and brimstone, it's in revelations, which is a book full of poetic visions which are highly symbolic. Also it never claimed humans would be send there, but only the devil and his angels, so even if it were to be taken literally, it's not something we should worry about. It's likely that even the devil and his angels would not literally be send in a lake of fire and brimstone though, as it is likely that the lake just symbolizes eternal destruction and the absolute end of their existence.
Contrary to Sheol (hades), from which revival is possible, Gehenna is a permanent state of death. People thrown into Gehenna are dead for good, no more second chances. And that's about it. However unless you do something very very very wrong you will not be thrown into Gehenna. So I wouldn't really worry about it. In the history of mankind there were probably less people thrown into Gehenna than the amount of fingers you have in a single hand.
Gehenna by the way is named after a place notorious for the practice of sacrificing newborns to Baal, by throwing them into the fire. Which was very disgusting in gods eyes, which is one of the reasons he commanded the Hebrews/Israelites to commit genocide against the Canaanites because the act of child sacrifice was common in their culture. Of course that was not the only reason, but it's one of the main reasons.
You could even argue that even though the Canaanites were slaughtered in the name of god, he ultimately saved many more babies from dying by fire.
/edit oops I meant molech, not Baal. Same shit really though.
In the original text there is also a difference between Sheol (or hades in Greek) and Gehinnom (gehenna in Greek).
Sheol is the 'default' state of the dead, in other words 99.9% of people who die rest in Sheol. It's just the state of not living and it's like a long dreamless sleep. Even Jesus was in Sheol for several days after he died and before he resurrected. Some translation write that Jesus was in hell during that time. Clearly Jesus was not in 'hell' as most if us see hell. I mean why would Jesus need to be send to hell for three days?
Clearly hell is not a place for the bad to go to, or at least Sheol is not. In fact some persons even asked to be send to hell (Sheol) because being in Sheol would be better than to live under their circumstances.
Jewish tradition became infiltrated by Greek doctrine of immortal souls, that's what eventually caused the spreading of the concept of the immortal souls going to heaven or hell, based on their live. This was however never the idea the bible wanted to give us. The Catholic Church spread this misinformation even more.
Ecclesiastes chapter 9 verse 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, (Sheol) where you are going.
Verse 5 and 6 of the same chapter: For the living know* that they will die,+ but the dead know nothing at all,+ nor do they have any more reward,* because all memory of them is forgotten.+ 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.
Psalms 16:10 For you will not leave me in the Grave. (Sheol)
You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.
Job 14:13 13 O that in the Grave (Sheol) you would conceal me,
That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
Here you see job actually ask god to conceal him in Sheol (sometimes translated as hell). Certainly he would not ask to be send to hell if he thought hell was a place of torture!
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Pretty much the only time there is spoken about a lake of fire and brimstone, it's in revelations, which is a book full of poetic visions which are highly symbolic. Also it never claimed humans would be send there, but only the devil and his angels, so even if it were to be taken literally, it's not something we should worry about. It's likely that even the devil and his angels would not literally be send in a lake of fire and brimstone though, as it is likely that the lake just symbolizes eternal destruction and the absolute end of their existence.
Contrary to Sheol (hades), from which revival is possible, Gehenna is a permanent state of death. People thrown into Gehenna are dead for good, no more second chances. And that's about it. However unless you do something very very very wrong you will not be thrown into Gehenna. So I wouldn't really worry about it. In the history of mankind there were probably less people thrown into Gehenna than the amount of fingers you have in a single hand.
Gehenna by the way is named after a place notorious for the practice of sacrificing newborns to Baal, by throwing them into the fire. Which was very disgusting in gods eyes, which is one of the reasons he commanded the Hebrews/Israelites to commit genocide against the Canaanites because the act of child sacrifice was common in their culture. Of course that was not the only reason, but it's one of the main reasons.
You could even argue that even though the Canaanites were slaughtered in the name of god, he ultimately saved many more babies from dying by fire.
/edit oops I meant molech, not Baal. Same shit really though.
Look to philosophy for more accurate truth not religion.
People may display some behavior in some context which some people deem evil but nobody is truly the pure form of evil/wicked..... imo.
Heres what i think when you die 2 options:
1.) You lose the ability to channel some of the energy of the universe into your organism, your everything is reconfigured. (EXAMPLE: you are buried and rot some of you is fed to plants some to worms.) If this happens you never know the identity you were when you were "alive" again.
2.) Your physical body dies and you move to a non physical realm - some of your identity remains.
They die just as everyone does. What happens to the wicked after death? Well that's a different story.
I am pretty sure that they die and get buried/cremated.
Three hells!
The starting point for such an investigation can be none other than the very book from which Christians profess to derive their doctrine of hell - the Bible! By scrutinizing its pages, one can strip away the theological trappings of ancient and medieval myth and fabrication and discover the true teaching on the subject.
One's first surprise is that the Bible speaks of not one but of three different "hells"! In the widely used King James Version, three totally different Greek words - words with totally different meanings-are translated by the one English word hell. The three words are hades, tartaros and gehenna.
In biblical usage, the Greek word hades - used only II times in the New Testament - is roughly equivalent to the Old Testament Hebrew word sheol, meaning grave or pit (compare Acts 2:27 with Psalm 16:10). Hades may be likened to a hole in the ground. In the Bible it has nothing to do with fire.
Most modern biblical translators admit that the use of the English word hell to translate hades and sheol is an unfortunate and misleading practice.
Why?
Because in seeing the word hell, many readers impute to it the traditional connotation of an ever-burning inferno - when this was never remotely intended in the Greek language or in Old English!
In its true biblical usage, hades does indeed refer to the state or abode of the dead - but not in the sense of spirits walking around in some sort of "shadowy realm." Hades is simply the abode we call the grave. All the dead go to this hell.
The Second Hell
The second hell of the Bible, tartaros, is mentioned only once in scripture - in II Peter 2:4: "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell[tartaroo], and delivered them into chains of darkness to be reserved unto judgment.
Following their rebellion to unseat God from His throne (Isa. 14:12-14; Rev. 12:4), the archangel Lucifer (now Satan) and a third of the created angels (demons) were ejected from heaven (Luke 10:18). They were cast down to tartaros, a place or condition of restraint that God has imposed on the mutinous angels as they await ultimate judgment (Jude 6; I Cor. 6:3).
Tartaros, then, is a "hell" that applies only to evil, rebellious angels or demons. It is interesting that the ancient Greeks used this word to describe the place in which Zeus confined the rebellious Titans. Nowhere in the Bible is there any mention of men being put into this particular "hell."
The Third Hell
So far, we have seen that the first hell of the Bible - hades - is simply the grave. The second hell -tartaros - a place or condition of restraint for demons. What, then, is the third hell of the Bible?
Surely, it must be the old fashioned Bible "hell"- the literal ever-burning inferno, the place of eternal torment of the damned!
Or is it?
Did you ever notice that the Greek word used by the writers of the New Testament for this third hell is gehenna? It comes from the Hebrew Gai Hinnom, meaning"valley of Hinnom." Hinnom is a deep, narrow ravine located to the south and southwest of Jerusalem. It is to this hell that I recently traveled. But what does this valley have to do with the traditional Christian concept of "hell"? The answer may surprise you!
Lunch in Hell
Gehenna - the valley of Hinnom - is today a relatively pleasant place. In recent years, grass and even some flowers have taken over portions of the valley floor, and there are plenty of trees to provide shade from the scorching sun (see photos on these pages - {Editor's note: Sorry, pictures not included.}).
I descended into the valley by means of a rocky dirt path. A small dog - no three-headed Cerberus! - barked briefly, then returned to scavenging in a small cave near the path. Further on down the valley two boys were kicking a soccer ball between them.
I sought refuge from the heat of the noon sun under a large tree, and took out my lunch. A few birds came by for a handout. The surroundings were not unlike those of a typical city park.
After enjoying a leisurely lunch, I headed up out of the valley and proceeded unimpeded toward the Jaffa Gate. My memory of the valley is one of a pleasant and relaxing haven in the midst of a hot and tiring walking tour of Jerusalem.
Gehenna, in short, is a far cry from the hell of Dante or from what this valley was like in Jesus day!
The valley was not always such a pleasant place. In the Old Testament it was a place of abominable pagan rites, including infant sacrifice. It was there that the apostate kings Ahaz and Manasseh made their children "pass through the fire" to the god Molech. The rites were specifically celebrated in Tophet, the "place of abhorrence," one of the chief groves in the valley
King Josiah of ancient Judah finally put an end to these abominations. He defiled the valley, rendering it ceremonially unclean (II Kings 23:10). Later the valley became the cesspool and city dump of Jerusalem - a repository for sewage, refuse and animal carcasses. The bodies of despised criminals were also burned there along with the rubbish. Fires burned continuously, feeding on a constant supply of garbage and refuse.
Aceldama, the "field of blood", purchased with the money Judas received for the betrayal of Christ (Matt. 27:
was also in part of the valley of Hinnom.
Gehenna-and the Lake of Fire
What, then, does this valley called gehenna have to do with hell?
Notice. At the end of this age, at the crisis at the end of this world's civilization, the prophesied Beast of the book of Revelation - a Satan-inspired political dictator and a miracle-working religious figure, the False Prophet, working with him will resist the re-establishment of the government of God by fighting against Jesus Christ at His Second Coming. Their fate is revealed by the apostle John: "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet.... These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone" (Rev. 19:20).
Where will this temporary lake of fire - this "hell" - be?
The prophet Isaiah wrote of this lake of fire prepared for the Beast: "For Tophet [in the valley of Hinnom] is ordained of old, yea, for the king it is prepared, he hath made it deep and large, the pile thereof is fire and wood, the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it" (Isa. 30:33).
One thousand years later, Satan himself will be cast into this rekindled fiery lake where the Beast and False Prophet were cast! (See Revelation 20:10.)
But what of the wicked who have died over the many millennia? Does the Bible say that they are now suffering fiery punishment for their sins in a lake of fire?
Absolutely not!
In the sequence of Revelation 20 - read it for yourself - the incorrigibly wicked are resurrected to be thrown into the lake of fire after Satan is cast there! Read it, in Revelation 20:15.
What, then, will become of these wicked? Will they writhe in flames for eternity?
No!
The wicked will be burned up in the intense heat of the coming gehenna fire on earth. They will be consumed, annihilated, destroyed!
This punishment will be everlasting - permanent and final. The Bible calls it the "second death" (Rev. 20:14; 21: - from which there is no possibility of a further resurrection.
The Bible does teach eternal punishment, but not eternal punishing.
The prophet Malachi provides a graphic description. "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble, and the day that cometh shall burn them up…(4:1). To the righteous, God says that the wicked shall be "ashes under the soles of your feet . (Mal. 4:3).
http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/tohell.htm
The starting point for such an investigation can be none other than the very book from which Christians profess to derive their doctrine of hell - the Bible! By scrutinizing its pages, one can strip away the theological trappings of ancient and medieval myth and fabrication and discover the true teaching on the subject.
One's first surprise is that the Bible speaks of not one but of three different "hells"! In the widely used King James Version, three totally different Greek words - words with totally different meanings-are translated by the one English word hell. The three words are hades, tartaros and gehenna.
In biblical usage, the Greek word hades - used only II times in the New Testament - is roughly equivalent to the Old Testament Hebrew word sheol, meaning grave or pit (compare Acts 2:27 with Psalm 16:10). Hades may be likened to a hole in the ground. In the Bible it has nothing to do with fire.
Most modern biblical translators admit that the use of the English word hell to translate hades and sheol is an unfortunate and misleading practice.
Why?
Because in seeing the word hell, many readers impute to it the traditional connotation of an ever-burning inferno - when this was never remotely intended in the Greek language or in Old English!
In its true biblical usage, hades does indeed refer to the state or abode of the dead - but not in the sense of spirits walking around in some sort of "shadowy realm." Hades is simply the abode we call the grave. All the dead go to this hell.
The Second Hell
The second hell of the Bible, tartaros, is mentioned only once in scripture - in II Peter 2:4: "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell[tartaroo], and delivered them into chains of darkness to be reserved unto judgment.
Following their rebellion to unseat God from His throne (Isa. 14:12-14; Rev. 12:4), the archangel Lucifer (now Satan) and a third of the created angels (demons) were ejected from heaven (Luke 10:18). They were cast down to tartaros, a place or condition of restraint that God has imposed on the mutinous angels as they await ultimate judgment (Jude 6; I Cor. 6:3).
Tartaros, then, is a "hell" that applies only to evil, rebellious angels or demons. It is interesting that the ancient Greeks used this word to describe the place in which Zeus confined the rebellious Titans. Nowhere in the Bible is there any mention of men being put into this particular "hell."
The Third Hell
So far, we have seen that the first hell of the Bible - hades - is simply the grave. The second hell -tartaros - a place or condition of restraint for demons. What, then, is the third hell of the Bible?
Surely, it must be the old fashioned Bible "hell"- the literal ever-burning inferno, the place of eternal torment of the damned!
Or is it?
Did you ever notice that the Greek word used by the writers of the New Testament for this third hell is gehenna? It comes from the Hebrew Gai Hinnom, meaning"valley of Hinnom." Hinnom is a deep, narrow ravine located to the south and southwest of Jerusalem. It is to this hell that I recently traveled. But what does this valley have to do with the traditional Christian concept of "hell"? The answer may surprise you!
Lunch in Hell
Gehenna - the valley of Hinnom - is today a relatively pleasant place. In recent years, grass and even some flowers have taken over portions of the valley floor, and there are plenty of trees to provide shade from the scorching sun (see photos on these pages - {Editor's note: Sorry, pictures not included.}).
I descended into the valley by means of a rocky dirt path. A small dog - no three-headed Cerberus! - barked briefly, then returned to scavenging in a small cave near the path. Further on down the valley two boys were kicking a soccer ball between them.
I sought refuge from the heat of the noon sun under a large tree, and took out my lunch. A few birds came by for a handout. The surroundings were not unlike those of a typical city park.
After enjoying a leisurely lunch, I headed up out of the valley and proceeded unimpeded toward the Jaffa Gate. My memory of the valley is one of a pleasant and relaxing haven in the midst of a hot and tiring walking tour of Jerusalem.
Gehenna, in short, is a far cry from the hell of Dante or from what this valley was like in Jesus day!
The valley was not always such a pleasant place. In the Old Testament it was a place of abominable pagan rites, including infant sacrifice. It was there that the apostate kings Ahaz and Manasseh made their children "pass through the fire" to the god Molech. The rites were specifically celebrated in Tophet, the "place of abhorrence," one of the chief groves in the valley
King Josiah of ancient Judah finally put an end to these abominations. He defiled the valley, rendering it ceremonially unclean (II Kings 23:10). Later the valley became the cesspool and city dump of Jerusalem - a repository for sewage, refuse and animal carcasses. The bodies of despised criminals were also burned there along with the rubbish. Fires burned continuously, feeding on a constant supply of garbage and refuse.
Aceldama, the "field of blood", purchased with the money Judas received for the betrayal of Christ (Matt. 27:
was also in part of the valley of Hinnom.Gehenna-and the Lake of Fire
What, then, does this valley called gehenna have to do with hell?
Notice. At the end of this age, at the crisis at the end of this world's civilization, the prophesied Beast of the book of Revelation - a Satan-inspired political dictator and a miracle-working religious figure, the False Prophet, working with him will resist the re-establishment of the government of God by fighting against Jesus Christ at His Second Coming. Their fate is revealed by the apostle John: "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet.... These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone" (Rev. 19:20).
Where will this temporary lake of fire - this "hell" - be?
The prophet Isaiah wrote of this lake of fire prepared for the Beast: "For Tophet [in the valley of Hinnom] is ordained of old, yea, for the king it is prepared, he hath made it deep and large, the pile thereof is fire and wood, the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it" (Isa. 30:33).
One thousand years later, Satan himself will be cast into this rekindled fiery lake where the Beast and False Prophet were cast! (See Revelation 20:10.)
But what of the wicked who have died over the many millennia? Does the Bible say that they are now suffering fiery punishment for their sins in a lake of fire?
Absolutely not!
In the sequence of Revelation 20 - read it for yourself - the incorrigibly wicked are resurrected to be thrown into the lake of fire after Satan is cast there! Read it, in Revelation 20:15.
What, then, will become of these wicked? Will they writhe in flames for eternity?
No!
The wicked will be burned up in the intense heat of the coming gehenna fire on earth. They will be consumed, annihilated, destroyed!
This punishment will be everlasting - permanent and final. The Bible calls it the "second death" (Rev. 20:14; 21:
- from which there is no possibility of a further resurrection.The Bible does teach eternal punishment, but not eternal punishing.
The prophet Malachi provides a graphic description. "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble, and the day that cometh shall burn them up…(4:1). To the righteous, God says that the wicked shall be "ashes under the soles of your feet . (Mal. 4:3).
http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/tohell.htm
"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.
"The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish. Psalm 146:4
"The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish. Psalm 146:4
What Happens to the wicked upon death?I guess it all depends on your favorite superstitious belief. Why not wait until after he dies...and ask Dick Cheney?
LOL, that was funny.But, on a serious note, one would have to assume the wicked that die can later communicate to the living.There are those that believe that. Seems to be a popular theme in TV, etc. 
What Happens to the wicked upon death?I guess it all depends on your favorite superstitious belief. Why not wait until after he dies...and ask Dick Cheney?
I do believe that you most definitely become compost.
Um, the same thing that happens to everybody: you die. Doesn't matter what life you lead we all share that in common.
This was one of the questions raised in another thread here, but got lost among other 'things'.
What are the thoughts on this? What does various faiths have to say on this?
Of course, it begets the question of what determines what makes someone wicked. What then is evil? So that too may enter into it.
Matthew 10:28 brought this to mind (that, and a thread on the political board regarding the Koran and the Bible).
28 And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So, this speaks of something that happens after death. In hell is where both body and soul get destroyed here.
The following refers to wicked angels. 2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Then there is Matthew 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
What are the thoughts on this? What does various faiths have to say on this?
Of course, it begets the question of what determines what makes someone wicked. What then is evil? So that too may enter into it.
Matthew 10:28 brought this to mind (that, and a thread on the political board regarding the Koran and the Bible).
28 And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So, this speaks of something that happens after death. In hell is where both body and soul get destroyed here.
The following refers to wicked angels. 2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Then there is Matthew 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
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