Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 3.

fikrett

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Quote from: bettercrypto on November 06, 2024, 02:24:34 AM

Most of the time the ones who become profitable in the bull run are the long-term holders, and if there are traders who become profitable, it is the expert traders or scalpers who can benefit from these situations. But those other traders who don't have a deep or broad knowledge of trading are for sure not going to benefit from that.

The majority community in the crypto space knows this; that's the only logic: if you don't know about trading, nothing good will happen to you when you do trading activity.
This is the common thing that happens in the world of crypto trading.

..Or if you trade - do it responsibly, bit by bit.
Don't gamble your funds away, if you want to learn.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: ? on November 05, 2024, 02:43:43 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 04, 2024, 09:30:09 PM

Quote from: AYOBA on November 04, 2024, 05:45:00 PM

Those who received huge profits during bull run market are those that hold a bitcoins for a long periods of times, because his bitcoin has less resume than trading with this big amount of money that some people use to trade is the same that amount some use to become what people cannot expected then in life, since they aware that to be come expect in trading you need to be on research every moment’s and it also deserve those that have enough knowledge.

But in holding there’s nothing like you need to have knowledge or going tutorials about the only things is for having experience and patience, because a person who’s lack of patience cannot hold a Bitcoin of not at end of day it will end achieving nothing when ever he holds.

I believe that a Bitcoin HODLer must have some knowledge, but not deep technical analysis knowledge about the market, although he/she could learn if he/she wants. But the more important kind of knowledge for a HODLer is the fundamental understanding and also some technical understanding on how Bitcoin works, plus why it works.

It's probably harder to understand, because we don't truly know what Bitcoin actually is yet. I have changed my opinions/view on Bitcoin in my years of learning about it, and I still continue to learn/change/adapt.

Can you tell more in detail what changed in your perspective on the BTC and what it actually is - but for you?
I am too on such a path so I would be glad to hear some opinions.. as well as to gain more knowledge, of course..

It's merely about my personal opinions, which as the stupid one in BitcoinTalk, those opinions usually end with other users of the forum name-call me as "unserious" or "dishonest".

The latest perspective that I've have posted, although I already had this perspective before I was called out, is Bitcoin's market as a "Naturally-Occurring Ponzi" - Wherein a seller to sell in profit, then new money from buyers must come into the system. Because how else could anyone sell for a profit in ANY market?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The other changing perspective is Bitcoin's decreasing security budget/mining rewards. Because depending just on the fees might not be very sustainable, especially if features like Ordinals and Runes are seen by the majority of users as "exploits".

bettercrypto

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Most of the time the ones who become profitable in the bull run are the long-term holders, and if there are traders who become profitable, it is the expert traders or scalpers who can benefit from these situations. But those other traders who don't have a deep or broad knowledge of trading are for sure not going to benefit from that.

The majority community in the crypto space knows this; that's the only logic: if you don't know about trading, nothing good will happen to you when you do trading activity.
This is the common thing that happens in the world of crypto trading.

Huliya

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Quote from: shinratensei_ on November 05, 2024, 09:32:03 PM

Quote from: SamReomo on November 04, 2024, 06:11:31 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Good traders always make more profits then investors because traders buy sell multiple times within a year and investors buy and hold an asset to gain profits from it. I know investing is way safer than trading but with trading the potential of earning higher profits is possible.

Someone who's a good trader can earn higher profits by shorting Bitcoin with leveraging when it's at the peak. Just think that the ones who shorted Bitcoin when it reached $73.5k a few days ago with 10x leverage have already made a lot profit with it.

not always true though, some trader might blow their entire month's profit in just one trading mistake, most of the trader doesn't just always profit everyday, some of them have occassional pullback as well, even the best trader there is doesn't have 100% win rate, probably just around 70%, which is still good if they can manage their trade with proper SL/TP setup and risk management.

the investor on the other hand, just ignores the market price action and just hold their coin with targeted price, it works flawlessly and the fact that it carries no risk of getting blown up because of trade means if the market is rising high just like how BTC rise from $16k to $70k, they've made so much profit without even the need to risk their capital which i find pretty astonishing.

the thing is, a trader will more likely trade 1-5% of their entire capital's worth for the sake of risk management compared to investor who just invest 100% of their money, so a trader can keep making profit swing trading doesn't mean their portfolio can grow dramatically fast.

If someone says that every trade is profitable, it must be understood that he has no idea about trading. Even experienced traders may make 1 or 2 trades throughout the day. In this way no trade can be profitable in a short period of time.

On the other hand, holders come with a profit lever by holding on for a long time. And I believe they hold for about 2,3 years just waiting for BTC to reach the desired target.

If you think in this direction, I think the holders are more profitable.

shinratensei_

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Quote from: SamReomo on November 04, 2024, 06:11:31 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Good traders always make more profits then investors because traders buy sell multiple times within a year and investors buy and hold an asset to gain profits from it. I know investing is way safer than trading but with trading the potential of earning higher profits is possible.

Someone who's a good trader can earn higher profits by shorting Bitcoin with leveraging when it's at the peak. Just think that the ones who shorted Bitcoin when it reached $73.5k a few days ago with 10x leverage have already made a lot profit with it.

not always true though, some trader might blow their entire month's profit in just one trading mistake, most of the trader doesn't just always profit everyday, some of them have occassional pullback as well, even the best trader there is doesn't have 100% win rate, probably just around 70%, which is still good if they can manage their trade with proper SL/TP setup and risk management.

the investor on the other hand, just ignores the market price action and just hold their coin with targeted price, it works flawlessly and the fact that it carries no risk of getting blown up because of trade means if the market is rising high just like how BTC rise from $16k to $70k, they've made so much profit without even the need to risk their capital which i find pretty astonishing.

the thing is, a trader will more likely trade 1-5% of their entire capital's worth for the sake of risk management compared to investor who just invest 100% of their money, so a trader can keep making profit swing trading doesn't mean their portfolio can grow dramatically fast.

?

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 04, 2024, 09:30:09 PM

Quote from: AYOBA on November 04, 2024, 05:45:00 PM

Those who received huge profits during bull run market are those that hold a bitcoins for a long periods of times, because his bitcoin has less resume than trading with this big amount of money that some people use to trade is the same that amount some use to become what people cannot expected then in life, since they aware that to be come expect in trading you need to be on research every moment’s and it also deserve those that have enough knowledge.

But in holding there’s nothing like you need to have knowledge or going tutorials about the only things is for having experience and patience, because a person who’s lack of patience cannot hold a Bitcoin of not at end of day it will end achieving nothing when ever he holds.

I believe that a Bitcoin HODLer must have some knowledge, but not deep technical analysis knowledge about the market, although he/she could learn if he/she wants. But the more important kind of knowledge for a HODLer is the fundamental understanding and also some technical understanding on how Bitcoin works, plus why it works.

It's probably harder to understand, because we don't truly know what Bitcoin actually is yet. I have changed my opinions/view on Bitcoin in my years of learning about it, and I still continue to learn/change/adapt.

Can you tell more in detail what changed in your perspective on the BTC and what it actually is - but for you?
I am too on such a path so I would be glad to hear some opinions.. as well as to gain more knowledge, of course..

fikrett

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Quote from: tygeade on November 05, 2024, 12:42:25 AM

Quote from: pawanjain on November 04, 2024, 11:14:47 AM

Different people will have different opinion on this question and while some might say trading would be a better option the others will prefer holding.
So it all boils down to one's experience and skills. If one is really good at trading then he might make more profits considering that he's able to make profits both in pumping and falling markets.
For others, holding is a better options as it gives magnifying returns over the long term.

Preference matters along with skill and experience as well. I have seen plenty of traders who made a lot of money to become holders eventually. A friend of mine started with 8k, made it to a few million dollars and retired, now he is only holding and not caring about it at all. I believe that is the most important part, if you are preferring one way, then you will do it that way.

While I do small trades, I usually just hold, not that I am holding much, but I rather save aside and hold that for long term, not because I can't trade, or not because I lack experience, been here long enough to do something, I do that because I like doing that one most. This is why it's clear we are going to end up with a better result and we shouldn't really consider anything further at the moment.

Just from interest - what he traded to such a degree he got such a sum going to get it and retire from trader trenches? Grin

betswift

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Quote from: Barikui1 on November 05, 2024, 01:44:27 AM

Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

To answer your question, I would say that it all boils down to the person and what he knows what he does best.

Holding can be done by anyone, newbies or veterans alike and they will definitely be profitable if they can stick to their holdings without tempering with till the bull run is in full swing, but a trader can also profit massively if he actually knows what he is doing, and mostly if he is a swing trader, because during the bull run, he is very sure of the direction of the market, so he is only be looking for a buying opportunity, and when he does, in other to milk the best possible result out of the market, it's to hold the position for a long time, as long as the bull season is still on.

So in essence of what am trying to say is that the bull season can be favourable to both the holders and also a trader, if the trader in question knows his craft and how to navigate his way around the market during such period.

I do think you are right and it cannot be said who can be in profit more - probably trader if he knows what he is doing, however, if a holder doesn't loose his patience and the sum is the same - he will of course have much more stability for his positions going Grin

Dzwaafu11

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

I think everybody will answer this question based on their own experience so far in the market. But for my and my opinion Holder will get more profit than trader. If a bull run comes, a holder who holds bitcoin for a long time can even X2 of what he invested.

I think holding gives more profit than trading if a bull run comes, although some experienced traders may choose trading because that is what they know and their experience. Over some time, if they trader every day before the time frame in which a holder holds the bitcoin, they will get the profit the investor will get, so it is just based on what everyone experienced in the market.

Quote from: AYOBA on November 04, 2024, 05:45:00 PM

But in holding there’s nothing like you need to have knowledge or going tutorials about the only things is for having experience and patience, because a person who’s lack of patience cannot hold a Bitcoin of not at end of day it will end achieving nothing when ever he holds.

The experience should be classified as the knowledge; if you don’t have the knowledge, how are you going to be able to store bitcoin safely, checking the market from time to time? Both investment and trading require knowledge; you need to know what you are doing and where you are putting your money before taking any step to invest in there, including knowing the risk, and everything is very important.

Barikui1

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

To answer your question, I would say that it all boils down to the person and what he knows what he does best.

Holding can be done by anyone, newbies or veterans alike and they will definitely be profitable if they can stick to their holdings without tempering with till the bull run is in full swing, but a trader can also profit massively if he actually knows what he is doing, and mostly if he is a swing trader, because during the bull run, he is very sure of the direction of the market, so he is only be looking for a buying opportunity, and when he does, in other to milk the best possible result out of the market, it's to hold the position for a long time, as long as the bull season is still on.

So in essence of what am trying to say is that the bull season can be favourable to both the holders and also a trader, if the trader in question knows his craft and how to navigate his way around the market during such period.

tygeade

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Quote from: pawanjain on November 04, 2024, 11:14:47 AM

Different people will have different opinion on this question and while some might say trading would be a better option the others will prefer holding.
So it all boils down to one's experience and skills. If one is really good at trading then he might make more profits considering that he's able to make profits both in pumping and falling markets.
For others, holding is a better options as it gives magnifying returns over the long term.

Preference matters along with skill and experience as well. I have seen plenty of traders who made a lot of money to become holders eventually. A friend of mine started with 8k, made it to a few million dollars and retired, now he is only holding and not caring about it at all. I believe that is the most important part, if you are preferring one way, then you will do it that way.

While I do small trades, I usually just hold, not that I am holding much, but I rather save aside and hold that for long term, not because I can't trade, or not because I lack experience, been here long enough to do something, I do that because I like doing that one most. This is why it's clear we are going to end up with a better result and we shouldn't really consider anything further at the moment.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: AYOBA on November 04, 2024, 05:45:00 PM

Those who received huge profits during bull run market are those that hold a bitcoins for a long periods of times, because his bitcoin has less resume than trading with this big amount of money that some people use to trade is the same that amount some use to become what people cannot expected then in life, since they aware that to be come expect in trading you need to be on research every moment’s and it also deserve those that have enough knowledge.

But in holding there’s nothing like you need to have knowledge or going tutorials about the only things is for having experience and patience, because a person who’s lack of patience cannot hold a Bitcoin of not at end of day it will end achieving nothing when ever he holds.

I believe that a Bitcoin HODLer must have some knowledge, but not deep technical analysis knowledge about the market, although he/she could learn if he/she wants. But the more important kind of knowledge for a HODLer is the fundamental understanding and also some technical understanding on how Bitcoin works, plus why it works.

It's probably harder to understand, because we don't truly know what Bitcoin actually is yet. I have changed my opinions/view on Bitcoin in my years of learning about it, and I still continue to learn/change/adapt.

SamReomo

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Good traders always make more profits then investors because traders buy sell multiple times within a year and investors buy and hold an asset to gain profits from it. I know investing is way safer than trading but with trading the potential of earning higher profits is possible.

Someone who's a good trader can earn higher profits by shorting Bitcoin with leveraging when it's at the peak. Just think that the ones who shorted Bitcoin when it reached $73.5k a few days ago with 10x leverage have already made a lot profit with it.

AYOBA

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Those who received huge profits during bull run market are those that hold a bitcoins for a long periods of times, because his bitcoin has less resume than trading with this big amount of money that some people use to trade is the same that amount some use to become what people cannot expected then in life, since they aware that to be come expect in trading you need to be on research every moment’s and it also deserve those that have enough knowledge.

But in holding there’s nothing like you need to have knowledge or going tutorials about the only things is for having experience and patience, because a person who’s lack of patience cannot hold a Bitcoin of not at end of day it will end achieving nothing when ever he holds.

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Quote from: Hyphen(-) on November 03, 2024, 04:24:24 PM

Apart from the risk involve in trading, traders do make more money in crypto market than holders even during bull run.

When you buy Bitcoin on the spot or any coin, you can be rest assured that you are holding the coin in your wallet and you can sell it anytime you want, you have no tension of benign liquidated due to little market correction.`
So even during the bear market, professional traders know their way out to make money from the market. Therefore, in my opinion; traders get more profit than holders in all market situation, but they are also prone to lose money due to the risk involved.

Although trading entails risk, there are still people who profit from the system. Those who use risk as an excuse are merely trying to dissuade others from trading; if trading is something that suits them, they should do it; if they want to hold them, they can also rely on it. However, the truth is that holding has less risk and offers a good chance of making money, but only if they have a large amount. Those who hold know the advantages of holding, especially during a bull run, and even in a bear market, they will want to purchase more to add to what they are already holding.

Saving it in your wallet makes it easy and when ever you decide to sell, you can send it to an exchange and that way, you sell your funds while it safe, the understanding for all this things matters a lot and that is why you must seek first knowledge, and concerning bull run, I will boldly say that holders make more money during the bull run, their traders thay make money with the market.

It is only during market situations that traders can make their money and holders will make when ever their is bull run or the next thing will be enough profits.

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Quote from: pawanjain on November 04, 2024, 11:14:47 AM

Different people will have different opinion on this question and while some might say trading would be a better option the others will prefer holding.
So it all boils down to one's experience and skills. If one is really good at trading then he might make more profits considering that he's able to make profits both in pumping and falling markets.
For others, holding is a better options as it gives magnifying returns over the long term.

Profits are subjective and what people invested. Anyone can invest huge amount of money to Bitcoin and with just 5x, they can make millions back in profits because they invest millions but there is someone who invested in altcoins with thousands and can make similar millions of profit this is because altcoins are volatile and the more volatile they are the more profits they are going to make, sometimes even someone with little money makes more profits from altcoin than someone that invested huge amount of money in Bitcoin due to market circumstances.

The only advantage of trading is that there is a way you can quickly cut short your loss and profits but you can't do that whole holding. It's possible for Bitcoin to make a run from $20k to $60 in 3 months and a trader can continue to adjust their stop loss as the market continue to run and will cut where there target are set but a holder don't get that opportunity. However, a holder might have the opportunity to buy lower, not all trader trade when market is down and that's when most holders buy in the market.

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Different people will have different opinion on this question and while some might say trading would be a better option the others will prefer holding.
So it all boils down to one's experience and skills. If one is really good at trading then he might make more profits considering that he's able to make profits both in pumping and falling markets.
For others, holding is a better options as it gives magnifying returns over the long term.

Awaklara

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Quote from: Sanitough on November 04, 2024, 09:16:36 AM

If you're a hodler aiming for a 100% increase over three years, a successful trader can potentially earn more by regularly capitalizing on price movements and exceeding that 100% gain within the same timeframe. However, day trading carries significant risks due to its demand for technical knowledge, making it less accessible for everyone. In contrast, the strategy for holding is straightforward: buy and hold. It requires only a bit of discipline to avoid panicking during bear markets.

yes, for traders who do have the skills and can maintain their consistency for profit, can definitely get bigger profits than holders. but we know all the risks of trading, there will be no traders who may continue to maintain their profits consistently for a certain time.
holders may be friendlier to everyone. it's just that the profits that can be obtained will depend on their disciplined ability to keep their portfolio under control. many holders are easily panicked, but not all. so it is important to plan the best price that satisfies us. don't be too ambitious with the peak, maybe the market reaches it when we are sleeping.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: tbct_mt2 on November 03, 2024, 09:12:15 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 03, 2024, 08:52:52 AM

In any kind of market? Bitcoin is NOT the most stable, but it's absolutely the safest investment you can make in crypto. Why? Because it's simply the only cryptocurrency that's NOT a scam. I'm probably wrong, but I believe EVERYTHING except Bitcoin, and maybe two or three other blockchains, actually make sense.

Plus for those "traders" who want to outperform Bitcoin, perhaps you'll have a better opportunity to profit in more units in Bitcoin by holding MSTR stock during the bull cycle.

Bitcoin is volatile like other cryptocurrencies but it is less volatile compares to thousands of altcoins in this market.

Bitcoin is safest because history shows it always recovers after -70%, -80% corrections from ATHs. After any terrible market, it recovers and gets its ATH back, even makes new ATH.

I'm not talking about "safe" from the perspective of recovery from large market corrections. I'm talking about the technical side of Bitcoin, that this "invention" actually works, and that the incentive structure is actually making everything in the network stick together.

Quote

Altcoins are different and I only can see Ethereum can recover from bear market and has its new ATH in a new 4-year market cycle. If I miss other altcoins can perform like Ethereum, I believe it is not more than such 5 altcoins. Perhaps Monero but with more regulations against Privacy in cryptocurrency market, Monero won't have too bright future.

Ethereum might not exist in a decade.

👀

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If you're a hodler aiming for a 100% increase over three years, a successful trader can potentially earn more by regularly capitalizing on price movements and exceeding that 100% gain within the same timeframe. However, day trading carries significant risks due to its demand for technical knowledge, making it less accessible for everyone. In contrast, the strategy for holding is straightforward: buy and hold. It requires only a bit of discipline to avoid panicking during bear markets.

Topic: Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 3. (Read 1440 times)