Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 7.

tbct_mt2

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Quote from: Peanutswar on October 31, 2024, 09:57:18 AM

It depends on the market situation, but for its a win-win for both if you have this

The situation is the same, in a same bull market. In this discussion, investors and traders are participating in a same market, bullish.

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in the first case if you are kind of busy person and you still want to get ride with the market you don't need to get bothered with the market volatility because you can leave your asset into your wallet. Note again in your wallet not in exchange. and do a take profit if you think its enough for you.

It's not your private keys, it's not your bitcoins.

Investors don't have need to trade daily so it's best and safest for them to withdraw bitcoins for holding to their non custodial wallets (need to be open source wallets too).

Reminder: do not keep your money in online accounts

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In the second case if you know to yourself you are a good trader you can ride with the market price action and get a fast earning because you can make a profit gains every move unlike in spot you are just waiting with the pump and in the futures trading you are getting earning with the pump and dumps

Trading is not easy in bull market because if you don't pick perfect price for sellings and rebuying, you will lose your bitcoin. You can get profit with spot trading in a bull run but will get less profit than holding.

If you trade with Futures, Margins, you will get loss, not profit.

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There will be winners and losers in a bull market, not everyone makes a profit. It can be said that it all depends on your knowledge and skills whether you are a long term investor or a trader. But overall I think holders will benefit more because even during bull season, Bitcoin volatility is still very unpredictable in the short term. Traders still face many challenges and market fluctuations, so the loss rate is still higher and making profits is not easy.

In every bull cycle I hear a lot of stories about someone making thousands of percent returns or millions of dollars from investing and holding , I rarely hear of someone making millions from trading and getting rich from trading . That is why I believe holding will give better returns than trading .

Peanutswar

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It depends on the market situation, but for its a win-win for both if you have this, in the first case if you are kind of busy person and you still want to get ride with the market you don't need to get bothered with the market volatility because you can leave your asset into your wallet. Note again in your wallet not in exchange. and do a take profit if you think its enough for you. In the second case if you know to yourself you are a good trader you can ride with the market price action and get a fast earning because you can make a profit gains every move unlike in spot you are just waiting with the pump and in the futures trading you are getting earning with the pump and dumps

SquirrelJulietGarden

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Quote from: YOSHIE on October 31, 2024, 07:52:45 AM

In my understanding, if crypto market conditions are bullish, my assessment is that the winners and profits are the holders, provided they buy when the price is cheapest and sell when the price is high, in fact this situation is commonly known by users crypto.

That's how we have a famous saying "If you can't HOLD, you won't be rich". This saying went viral with Changpeng Zao in 2021 [1], but I am unsure that Changpeng Zao is a first person who said this. Perhaps he is not the first person said so, but the first one who succeeded to make it viral on media.

[1] https://x.com/cz_binance/status/1359529612024270851

60% of Bitcoin is Held Long Term as Digital Gold. What About the Rest

HODL camp shows power of HODL that can help you to avoid loss and increase your profit too. [2]

[2] https://hodl.camp/

YOSHIE

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder?

In my understanding, if crypto market conditions are bullish, my assessment is that the winners and profits are the holders, provided they buy when the price is cheapest and sell when the price is high, in fact this situation is commonly known by users crypto.

For me, crypto traders have a different understanding of bullish issues, they have a stop loss button where the button works automatically when the price is targeted at a certain position, meaning there are limits for those who trade, they don't have to be guided by bullish phenomena.

Or another lucky thing for spot trading when bullishness occurs, the same thing happens to holders, almost the same way spot buys when crypto prices are cheap and sells when prices are high.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

For me holder is always the winner since they are the one who doesn't take to much risk and there's no capital or profit loss for them since the only thing they do is to buy then hold it.

Compare it to traders which they are commonly earning but also there's some instances that they lose from their trades especially if the market didn't came up base on their prediction. Those losses will provably bring them more negatives rather than the gains they get. But we can't also deny that there are lots of traders gaining, but then again since market is unpredictable the profit will also goes the same with traders.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Well, the amount of profit that is obtained from Bitcoin is based on the amount of capital that is being invested, the big banks and some whales are trading with a large amount of money like $500k to $1 million and when they take a long position during bull market that they are already aware of how bullish the market will be, they usually end up with so much profit than some holders who held just a small portion of Bitcoin such as $50k worth.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

If you can spend most of your day with the trading app, then the trader profits more during a bull market but you have to keep in mind that there are many moments when the sudden price spike also gives you a good chance to generate a generous profit from short sell but this is when trading becomes gambling and it's becoming very risky. The number one rule is to not short-sell, forget it, and only make a profit from price increases during the bull run.
If you are the type of person who can't spend most of their time with trading apps, then I think you won't be able to use the bull market's benefits with trading and holding will be a better option for you.

jcojci

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I think holder will be profits but if they don't sell their Bitcoin, the profit will remain at that without they can use the profit. The traders can also make a big profit if they close their trade in the right time. The key is when you can close your trade or sell your Bitcoin and you have the money in your hands, that will be your profit. If you decide to waits for more and expect to see the next high price, you will not always gets it because the market can changes soon. But all will depends on how he can make that profit because sometimes traders can have a bigger profit than traders if he know how to do that.

tbct_mt2

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

My simple answer is going to a holder is the winner against a trader.

Because a holder can enjoy most of the bull run and take profit with full original bitcoin amount at his exit price. The exit price for taking profit can not be perfect one because it's always hard to guess what is ATH of a market cycle, a bull run to take profit; but at least the holder does not lose any fraction of his original bitcoin amount by trading.

With a trader, trading is risky, and risk of selling low, buying higher repeatedly appears. It means when a trader trades more rounds, risk of losing several fractions of his original bitcoin amount is increasing. It's risk for Spot trading market, and if it is Margin market or Futures market, risk is much bigger with market liquidations.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

If you are using spot trading then the bitcoin you hold can be stored to meet the 100% increase to get maximum profit.
But when you are involved in future trading then the profit will depend on opening the order position, the problem is when you touch liquidity then all you have will be gone when the market reverses with the trading scheme you are doing.
Holding is not dangerous because they expect profit in the process of a big increase but the profit is very comparable to the bitcoin you have.

If the question is through trading or holding then you also have to see someone's ability to run it.
But for me it is safer to apply the holding pattern and as much as possible fill bitcoin as a step to meet better profits.

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Quote from: X-ray on October 30, 2024, 09:12:26 PM

it depends on the trader itself, if he can trade well, the profit could surpass any BTC holder easily, just imagine leveraging with 20x when rally occurs, when BTC doing 2x, the trader already profited 20x of its initial capital. that without counting if the trader is so good at swing trading, basically selling at every resistance and buying at every support with 100% win rate.
(....)

True! If most or all of the trades of the trader are winning, then I believe the trader can make more profits. It's a matter of how active you trade, and how big your trade size position.
Trading during bull market is not easy, it's not only buy low and sell high, and consider also some traders who not profitable during bull market and some are only profitable during bear market or the opposite.

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it depends on the trader itself, if he can trade well, the profit could surpass any BTC holder easily, just imagine leveraging with 20x when rally occurs, when BTC doing 2x, the trader already profited 20x of its initial capital. that without counting if the trader is so good at swing trading, basically selling at every resistance and buying at every support with 100% win rate.

but you also should know that trading isn't as simple as that, the market often time try to make things difficult for trader with sudden dips. with just one big dips alone a trader can lose their entire's month profit if they aren't good at managing their trade.
so if you ask who make more profit during bull market, it depends.

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To me, it's a vague comparison because you are not considering other factors

Liquidation price for your derivatives position. This carries a higher risk vs the spot trade
Fees - Both trading, the funding fees. How long ago was BTC at 35000?

If you look at it hypothetically, of course the 10x position has more ROI than the spot trading option, But the later is way less risky and leverage trading.

EL MOHA

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It’s quite a tricky question, for an investor I will say holding of bitcoin actually gives you and almost 2x of your capital but as you know this is actually going take a longer time while trading most especially leverage trading will simply just make it quicker to flip the capital but as we all know the quicker the profit the more riskier because the leverage trading doesn’t provide you the advantage that your holdings will. In trading you can lose an entire capital at once while it is not possible for holding.

Opening a long position at $35k or $71k with a 10x or more will simply be faster to get a 2x of the used capital of the trade goes your way, at at $35k price a move to $40k will simply have done more than 100% which is 2x already and same thing with the $71k is which should get a 100% before $75k is reached, all this are subjected to the trade going the traders way

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In my opinion and experience, I'm more profitable being a holder. And on the perspective of the rich and wealthy investors, they're not day traders but investors and considerably good at holding. They trade, yes but at most of the time they're holding most of the stocks and assets that they have before flipping it. And that's why I think that during the bull run, the most profitable are the long term holders as there's lesser effort compared to the active traders that they have to be pressed by the market and compete with the others in the market which how it goes to become winners and profitable.

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If you buy bitcoin in the spot market, you can send the coin to a noncustodial wallet. You will have complete control of your coins and you will be able to sleep very well at night and no issue will be from the exchange like hack. But if it is derivative, you have to leave the coin on the exchange. What if the exchange is hacked or your coins is seized.

If you open 10x leverage for long position at $35000, the liquidation price would be around $31500. Do you know that when bitcoin first went above $35000, it went back below $2700 again. This can even occur several times.

If you are lucky that bitcoin price does not go back down to the extent your money is not liquidated, you will make money more from 10x position. But also if the exchange is not hacked and also if your coin is not seized.

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When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Topic: Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 7. (Read 1440 times)