Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 5.

tvplus006

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Quote from: Marvell1 on November 01, 2024, 11:11:58 PM

But is this scenario feasible? Because I don't think someone can open a long position when bitcoin is at $35k and hold that position until bitcoin hits $100k. Because there is no guarantee that the price of bitcoin won't drop below $30k or even $20k before falling to $100k. That is why when trading we must always adhere to the take profit/stop loss principle. ..

I can say with confidence that such a scenario is quite possible. And to confirm my words, I post here a screenshot on which the trader (it's not me) holds his order for a year, opening it when the price of BTC was $26365. I don't know if he will be able to close the take profit order, because it is at the level of 100 thousand dollars. The holder will not be able to get such a profit)

Odohu

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

This is a very technical question that a straight answer might not address. On a simple look, it might appear like holders will profit more from bull market but there are instances where holders will hold beyond the point they ought to have sold thereby making them to lose considerable amount of money. Meanwhile traders have their way of entering the market near the bottom and selling near the peak because they have tools such as the RSI and others that help them perform the technical analysis. I'm not saying that trading is the best as I still prefer holding because of the peace of mind and safety it offers unlike trading that is very risky.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: Questat on November 01, 2024, 11:29:27 AM

Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on October 31, 2024, 06:48:48 AM

Well, the amount of profit that is obtained from Bitcoin is based on the amount of capital that is being invested, the big banks and some whales are trading with a large amount of money like $500k to $1 million and when they take a long position during bull market that they are already aware of how bullish the market will be, they usually end up with so much profit than some holders who held just a small portion of Bitcoin such as $50k worth.

Obviously, the bigger the amount of capital, the more huge the ROI is. And if you are one of those big whales that continuously trade in the market, you are for sure gonna reap massive amount of profits.

However, talking about long term hodlers, there are also those hodling a vast amount of bitcoin through DCA, and the amount of profits may vary depending on the current bitcoin price that they will decide to sell. But in general, both traders and hodlers are entitled to make high amount of ROI, the difference only comes with their amount of capital being invested.

You know, one thing about those big professional traders is that they make profit consistently even during Bitcoin bearish market or even when the market is not too volatile. So, even before a bull market starts, a trader must have accumulated a lot profit big enough to even surpass the entire profit the holder would have made. Although not all traders are professional and successful in trading.

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I think it is worth noting that traders are different. If we talk about an experienced trader, he will probably be able to make a bigger profit than the holder. But we also need to remember that the holder can be any person who bought Bitcoin and patiently waited for profit for a long time. Not everyone can be a successful trader, so there is no need even to guess who will be the winner. Patience can be a good partner in investments, and haste and incorrect strategies will lead to loss of capital.

Ricardo11

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Yes I also think an investor can get more facilities and security than a trader. As a trader always researches the market and tries to make a profit by trading on time, In that case, if there is a little mistake in market research and if there is a little mistake in adopting the right strategy, he loses all his money. most of the time the possibility of loss is more than profit in trading.

But when it comes to investment we have to invest for the long term, long term holdings in currencies like Bitcoin have a higher chance of profit. Bitcoin pumps up huge value after one of its four-year cycles. So we should aim to hold for at least two to three cycles, and keep investing a certain amount regularly using DCA. With the DCA method, we can invest without worrying about the fluctuations in the price of Bitcoin and take an average price over a long period of time, which also gives us a high chance of profit. In the near future the price of Bitcoin will cross $150K - $250K or even $1M, at which time you will get multiple returns from the current price.

Because of this I think if an investor invests in Bitcoin he will be more profitable in the long term and risk free than a trader.

Marvell1

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Quote from: tvplus006 on November 01, 2024, 04:44:38 PM

Quote from: Salahmu on November 01, 2024, 12:19:51 PM

This question is quite difficult to answer from your perspective but however I would like to answer based on the process a trader could have undergo on the process, so actually if both a trader and a holder invested on Bitcoin when the price was at $35k and later on the price of Bitcoin got to $100k, the person that would be on a higher profit will be the holder because he never touches his Bitcoin in anyway but instead he keeps adding more, while the trader on the other hand will not make much profit because is obvious that before the Bitcoin price got to that amount a trader would have open so many positions and of course a good number of those positions may not turn out well for him, so that's why I believe that a holder has more chance to profit than the trader on this scenario.

Well, if we consider the option that the trader has opened only one order and holds it as much as the holder. In this case, his profit will exceed the profit received by the holder. And the size of this profit will depend on the leverage when opening an order.

But is this scenario feasible? Because I don't think someone can open a long position when bitcoin is at $35k and hold that position until bitcoin hits $100k. Because there is no guarantee that the price of bitcoin won't drop below $30k or even $20k before falling to $100k. That is why when trading we must always adhere to the take profit/stop loss principle.
Meanwhile, holders will only buy more if the bitcoin price drops to $20k instead of being nervous and scared like traders. So I also agree that the holder will always get better returns than the trader.
The only advantage that traders have over holders is that they can make quick profits every day or in the short term, IMO.

Plaguedeath

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Bitcoin trader is always make more money than Bitcoin holder regardless in bull market or bear market, because Bitcoin is already less volatile.

But, if you're talking about shitcoins trader and shitcoins holder, shitcoins holder might make more than the shitcoins trader because if the price went up from $0.001 to $100 in just few weeks, you're make a lot money just by holding.

This's not happening in Bitcoin, you can only make 2-3x by holding, while you have an opportunity to earn like 5-10x by trading.

Jewan420

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You've asked a question that doesn't have a definitive answer. For some people it is more profitable to invest or hold during Bullrun, while for some people it is more profitable to trade. I think both trade and hold are profitable if you are a skilled trader, no need to be very skilled in investing. How much profit you will get depends on the skill in trading, if you are a good trader you can definitely make profit equal to or more than the investment. If your question is in terms of labor or risk, which is more profitable between trading and holding? Then it will be very easy to answer, my answer will be that hold is more profitable.

milewilda

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Obviously this one really talks or having that advantage with that short term trader because it would really be basing up into the duration on doing trades and in compare to the duration of that long term hold.
Basing up on what you have said that a particular trader did make out some trades on $71k period or time then having that $100k capital then x2 wouldnt really be that so damn hard specially if you do really
know on how to scalp prices in between dumps and pumps on what we do have in the market. Everything will really be basing up on how well you do make out trades on which this one will really that differ into each
person or trader because not all would really be ahving that the same level or ability or capability when it comes on doing things or trades.

Therefore,there's no way that we could really be able to tell on where things be ending up due to different factors. This is why on the moment that you will really be telling in between profitability
then its really that pretty obvious on this aspect on which it will really be basing up on how well you do make trades or simply being holding up on long term.

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Quote from: Silberman on November 01, 2024, 04:36:47 PM

The trader which can use leverage always has a higher ceiling when it comes to the profits they can get, however it is known that the number of traders that are profitable are way lower when we compare them to the successful investors out there, and it is also known that the number of traders that can beat the markets, which means they can obtain more money than those that simply bought an asset and they are holding it, are even a smaller group.

This is a very subjective matter because it depends on your entry and exit price level. So each person whether a trader or a holder, their profitability depends on that consideration. So we can't generalize the answer here because the variation is quite wide that you can't get a concrete answer for this.

Quote from: alastantiger on October 31, 2024, 03:05:44 PM

Both can be profitable because during the bull market most cryptocurrency do well hence hodling and trading can't make you profits depending on your capital and the knowledge you have about the market. Trading has more work to do though than hodling as by hodling and not having to do too much, you can make same, similar or more profits than a trader. A traders can be victorious in some trades but lose in other trades but a hodler is going to make profits and his, is more certain that it's going to happen.

Futhermore, there are more millionaires in Bitcoin that got there through hodling than those that got there by trading only Bitcoin. A considerable amount of traders didn't get to be a millionaire from trading but selling courses on trading and getting into some projects early so they're part time investors.

As I mentioned above, it depends on your entry and exit in this market. Holding for long-time may give you high profitability, if and only if, you sell it at a price much higher than your buying price. It depends on the price level of how much you bought it, to calculate the profit you get from selling your stash.

tvplus006

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Quote from: Salahmu on November 01, 2024, 12:19:51 PM

This question is quite difficult to answer from your perspective but however I would like to answer based on the process a trader could have undergo on the process, so actually if both a trader and a holder invested on Bitcoin when the price was at $35k and later on the price of Bitcoin got to $100k, the person that would be on a higher profit will be the holder because he never touches his Bitcoin in anyway but instead he keeps adding more, while the trader on the other hand will not make much profit because is obvious that before the Bitcoin price got to that amount a trader would have open so many positions and of course a good number of those positions may not turn out well for him, so that's why I believe that a holder has more chance to profit than the trader on this scenario.

Well, if we consider the option that the trader has opened only one order and holds it as much as the holder. In this case, his profit will exceed the profit received by the holder. And the size of this profit will depend on the leverage when opening an order.

Silberman

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

The trader which can use leverage always has a higher ceiling when it comes to the profits they can get, however it is known that the number of traders that are profitable are way lower when we compare them to the successful investors out there, and it is also known that the number of traders that can beat the markets, which means they can obtain more money than those that simply bought an asset and they are holding it, are even a smaller group.

Salahmu

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000,

This question is quite difficult to answer from your perspective but however I would like to answer based on the process a trader could have undergo on the process, so actually if both a trader and a holder invested on Bitcoin when the price was at $35k and later on the price of Bitcoin got to $100k, the person that would be on a higher profit will be the holder because he never touches his Bitcoin in anyway but instead he keeps adding more, while the trader on the other hand will not make much profit because is obvious that before the Bitcoin price got to that amount a trader would have open so many positions and of course a good number of those positions may not turn out well for him, so that's why I believe that a holder has more chance to profit than the trader on this scenario.

Questat

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Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on October 31, 2024, 06:48:48 AM

Well, the amount of profit that is obtained from Bitcoin is based on the amount of capital that is being invested, the big banks and some whales are trading with a large amount of money like $500k to $1 million and when they take a long position during bull market that they are already aware of how bullish the market will be, they usually end up with so much profit than some holders who held just a small portion of Bitcoin such as $50k worth.

Obviously, the bigger the amount of capital, the more huge the ROI is. And if you are one of those big whales that continuously trade in the market, you are for sure gonna reap massive amount of profits.

However, talking about long term hodlers, there are also those hodling a vast amount of bitcoin through DCA, and the amount of profits may vary depending on the current bitcoin price that they will decide to sell. But in general, both traders and hodlers are entitled to make high amount of ROI, the difference only comes with their amount of capital being invested.

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Honestly, it’s hard to say who’s more profitable during that time for a few reasons:

- If the trader is highly skilled, they could probably make a lot. But if not, the holder is definitely at an advantage.

- If an investor only buys during the bull season, we can’t expect them to make much, especially with a small capital. But if they buy during the bear season, they might double or even triple their investment—especially if they’re buying in large quantities. It all depends on the timing and amount.

Whoever makes more or less profit doesn’t really matter because, in the end, the most important thing is that we all profit during the bull run.

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Quote from: Cryptmuster on November 01, 2024, 05:48:49 AM

Quote from: Uruhara on October 31, 2024, 08:32:27 PM

In this case, the Holder is certain to be in a profitable position. Even if he accumulates from a price level below $20k USD then with the Bitcoin price being around $70k currently that means he has made a profit of more than 200%. But about traders we know that they continue to adapt to price volatility in the market. If they are reliable traders and can utilize the market well then traders may be in a position to have greater profits. Because they buy during corrections and sell when they rise again. And keep repeating it and it can bring greater profits than to the holder. It's just that if a trader turns out to be unable to maximize the market then it could be that even in a bullish market there will always be traders who are in a losing position. So I still think the holder is the winner.

The trader may have unprofitable transactions in any market, and since I love statistics, I can say that holders will almost always make the best profit than traders. At one time, I experimented, one portfolio made only for the hold, and I sent part of the funds to trading to understand if I could trade more than the hold. Some transactions were very successful, some were unprofitable, but the first thing I turned to the entrance was that I spent a lot of time on trading, the second moment was an emotional component when I was lost money on unprofitable transactions. And in the end, the portfolio that I collected for the Hold (most of which consisted of Bitcoin) bypassed my efficiency in trading. It all depends on the skills of the trader, but in my case the hold is more profitable and calmer.

I do think that the best way out is to do both.
To reap the benefits from both sides of the activities.

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Quote from: Uruhara on October 31, 2024, 08:32:27 PM

In this case, the Holder is certain to be in a profitable position. Even if he accumulates from a price level below $20k USD then with the Bitcoin price being around $70k currently that means he has made a profit of more than 200%. But about traders we know that they continue to adapt to price volatility in the market. If they are reliable traders and can utilize the market well then traders may be in a position to have greater profits. Because they buy during corrections and sell when they rise again. And keep repeating it and it can bring greater profits than to the holder. It's just that if a trader turns out to be unable to maximize the market then it could be that even in a bullish market there will always be traders who are in a losing position. So I still think the holder is the winner.

The trader may have unprofitable transactions in any market, and since I love statistics, I can say that holders will almost always make the best profit than traders. At one time, I experimented, one portfolio made only for the hold, and I sent part of the funds to trading to understand if I could trade more than the hold. Some transactions were very successful, some were unprofitable, but the first thing I turned to the entrance was that I spent a lot of time on trading, the second moment was an emotional component when I was lost money on unprofitable transactions. And in the end, the portfolio that I collected for the Hold (most of which consisted of Bitcoin) bypassed my efficiency in trading. It all depends on the skills of the trader, but in my case the hold is more profitable and calmer.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 01, 2024, 04:22:49 AM

Quote from: Rockstarguy on October 31, 2024, 03:48:38 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

I think hodlers have more profits in the bull market expecially for those who are into longterm investment, you just need to be patient and hodl till you are satisfied with the profit you have earned.

The bull market still remains when trader makes quick profit and this profit is not always certain when the traders enters the market at the wrong. In the bull market it is still possible for a trader to lose when the trader is trading with emotion. The bull market is not a guarantee for traders to make a lot of profits, if you are not using the right strategies it is possible for you to still be at lose. In the bull market sometimes the market goes dip, this can also affect which the trader can decide to sell because of fear of losing.

👍

It will be easy for those "traders" in BitcoinTalk to claim that they are more "profitable" without neither showing the proper data nor have the data-set large enough to actually matter.

I'm confident that some of the people who have posted in this topic has tried "trading". OK, then be honest to yourself, were you a profitable "trader"? Or instead, do you have less units of your capital if it's denominated in Bitcoin?

If you can't outperform Bitcoin, then denominate your capital in Bitcoin and HODL BITCOIN.

Even though BTC fluctuates too, from time to time, it's the most stable investment you can make on the market, that's, of course, right.
But each has his goals and the ways he sees fit to achieve them.
Even though they may be riskier than BTC.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Rockstarguy on October 31, 2024, 03:48:38 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

I think hodlers have more profits in the bull market expecially for those who are into longterm investment, you just need to be patient and hodl till you are satisfied with the profit you have earned.

The bull market still remains when trader makes quick profit and this profit is not always certain when the traders enters the market at the wrong. In the bull market it is still possible for a trader to lose when the trader is trading with emotion. The bull market is not a guarantee for traders to make a lot of profits, if you are not using the right strategies it is possible for you to still be at lose. In the bull market sometimes the market goes dip, this can also affect which the trader can decide to sell because of fear of losing.

👍

It will be easy for those "traders" in BitcoinTalk to claim that they are more "profitable" without neither showing the proper data nor have the data-set large enough to actually matter.

I'm confident that some of the people who have posted in this topic has tried "trading". OK, then be honest to yourself, were you a profitable "trader"? Or instead, do you have less units of your capital if it's denominated in Bitcoin?

If you can't outperform Bitcoin, then denominate your capital in Bitcoin and HODL BITCOIN.

fikrett

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Quote from: tvplus006 on October 31, 2024, 06:04:37 PM

Quote from: tbct_mt2 on October 31, 2024, 03:25:17 AM

My simple answer is going to a holder is the winner against a trader...

I think everything will depend on the trader. And if he opens an order with a low leverage, for example x2, he will be able to significantly shift the point of liquidation of his position and at the same time get 2 times more profit than someone who just hodl his Bitcoin in his wallet.

It all depends on experience and the sum you've got in store.
As well as the targets you've got on your mind.
This should decide whether you hold or trade your way up.

Topic: Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 5. (Read 1440 times)