Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 6.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Holders and traders both have two different goals. Holders are the ones that take the least amount of risk. As long as the holder isnt selling the price is lower than what he invested for, he will never be making loss (unless he invested in some shitcoins which will result in waste of both time and money). On other hand, traders are the ones that take higher risk, but they are able to make profit within short period of time if they are executing their trades correctly. But there is also a high chance of them losing a lot within the short period of time. During a bull market, the currencies are very volatile, and if the trader can take advantage of this volatility, they can make some very nice profit. And on other hand, if long term holders can time the market correctly and sell when the price is at peak, they will also be able to make some decent profit based on when they bought the coins. So yeah, both holders and traders make profit during bull run.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

In this case, the Holder is certain to be in a profitable position. Even if he accumulates from a price level below $20k USD then with the Bitcoin price being around $70k currently that means he has made a profit of more than 200%. But about traders we know that they continue to adapt to price volatility in the market. If they are reliable traders and can utilize the market well then traders may be in a position to have greater profits. Because they buy during corrections and sell when they rise again. And keep repeating it and it can bring greater profits than to the holder. It's just that if a trader turns out to be unable to maximize the market then it could be that even in a bullish market there will always be traders who are in a losing position. So I still think the holder is the winner.

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Quote from: tbct_mt2 on October 31, 2024, 03:25:17 AM

My simple answer is going to a holder is the winner against a trader...

I think everything will depend on the trader. And if he opens an order with a low leverage, for example x2, he will be able to significantly shift the point of liquidation of his position and at the same time get 2 times more profit than someone who just hodl his Bitcoin in his wallet.

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This comparison (spot vs derivative) has never been fair because derivative trading has more applied risks and rewards and spot positions are just what they are, spot. And for an asset like Bitcoin, you really can't do such comparison unless the spot investor has hundreds of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is just up 100% from the $35K price but anyone actively trading it on leverage will be up more than 500%. My opinion is that it depends and it's also relative — it would be a spot positions if it's huge size or the leveraged position if it's a smaller margin.

The reason why leverages are used anyway is to boost position size.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

The millionaires in my own view should be the traders even though they’re not going to be many as those who hold for a long time till bull run. What distinguishes them is that, as a a trader, you’ll be risking a lot while trading to make sufficient money as those that have hold for long, it will only make you become more emotional and apply some proper risk management before you’ll get it right.

While as an holder, at bull run, you just watch the market bringing in those profits for you and you just basically have to sit down and watch your portfolio grow. It involves very low or no risk, no emotions attached and just excitement to see your saving ma grow bigger after waiting for a long time for it to grow.

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Quote from: Rockstarguy on October 31, 2024, 03:48:38 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

I think hodlers have more profits in the bull market expecially for those who are into longterm investment, you just need to be patient and hodl till you are satisfied with the profit you have earned. The bull market still remains when trader makes quick profit and this profit is not always certain when the traders enters the market at the wrong. In the bull market it is still possible for a trader to lose when the trader is trading with emotion. The bull market is not a guarantee for traders to make a lot of profits, if you are not using the right strategies it is possible for you to still be at lose. In the bull market sometimes the market goes dip, this can also affect which the trader can decide to sell because of fear of losing.

Very well, those that bought their bitcoin holdings when the price was way low, stand the chance to profits much during a bull market and have less chances of selling off their bitcoin when the bull just started or even getting caught up in the Web of confusion where the until their lost that already accumulated profits due to bad decisions.

And as a holder one can send your bitcoin to any address, unlike with derivatives position where the holder doesn't have bitcoin in real time and what you have is just a marked position that generate interest along the line.

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Trading is an unrealized world, we can't really know how they will do, so we can't really predict who does better. There are traders which will do better than holders and there are traders which will do worse. We are sure about holders and what they make but at the same time if they keep holding afterwards then they will do bad there too.

So all in all, I would say this isn't really a problem, and I would say this is going to make things a bit worse on the long run. So if you are asking which one you should be, I would say it depends on your talents as a trader, if you are a great trader then you are going to make a lot of money but if you are a terrible trader then I would suggest just holding and trying to sell at the peak point of this bull run.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

I think hodlers have more profits in the bull market expecially for those who are into longterm investment, you just need to be patient and hodl till you are satisfied with the profit you have earned. The bull market still remains when trader makes quick profit and this profit is not always certain when the traders enters the market at the wrong. In the bull market it is still possible for a trader to lose when the trader is trading with emotion. The bull market is not a guarantee for traders to make a lot of profits, if you are not using the right strategies it is possible for you to still be at lose. In the bull market sometimes the market goes dip, this can also affect which the trader can decide to sell because of fear of losing.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Also more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Both can be profitable because during the bull market most cryptocurrency do well hence hodling and trading can't make you profits depending on your capital and the knowledge you have about the market. Trading has more work to do though than hodling as by hodling and not having to do too much, you can make same, similar or more profits than a trader. A traders can be victorious in some trades but lose in other trades but a hodler is going to make profits and his, is more certain that it's going to happen.

Futhermore, there are more millionaires in Bitcoin that got there through hodling than those that got there by trading only Bitcoin. A considerable amount of traders didn't get to be a millionaire from trading but selling courses on trading and getting into some projects early so they're part time investors.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

There are things that are not clear yet. If you buy Bitcoin at $35k, let's say for instance you bought a full Bitcoin worth $35k and the price reach $100k,yoy Wil be having a whooping profit of $65k profits without anyone stopping you from selling. However, when it comes to a person trying to open long position (in this case long a position), it's depend on where exactly the buyer open the position.

Here is what I understand about longing and shorting position. If for instance you want to make similar $65k poroft but you don't have the capital to buy large, you will have to increase your leverage position by going more higher but the higher your leverage, the higher your liquidation risk but if you have the capital, to make something similar in profit wouldn't be a problem and your liquidation wouldn't be a problem. I will advice you look through how to leverage position and how to use the calculator.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

If the question is who is more profitable, actually both can be profitable. if the position you open is good and lasts until the profit is satisfactory, meaning there is no drop in the price of Bitcoin which causes your position to be liquidated, you can get big profits in a short time. but the movement of the price of Bitcoin even though it is in a bull run, we know it does not always continue to trend up.

I think the holder is more comfortable. the time required is indeed longer, but there is peace in its application before reaping the profits. there is no pressure as big as when you place your trading position.
I know we are not discussing pressure and risk. both traders and holders, I think both can get good profits if we really understand and do it well.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

If one can trade professionally then surely he can make better profit than the holder according to the duration of time. But there is also a lot of risk here, but those who hold have to accept risk, but there is no big risk. Because long-term investment in strong crypto currency like Bitcoin is more likely to make profit. so I would definitely support holding more as there is a relaxed profit to be made here. In the case of trading, many times we have to lose a lot, in this case we have a mental stress. so holding is definitely a good strategy to avoid everything and make good profit in relaxed way

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

So I made some calculations and it was pretty much obvious that if a person chose to take entry at CMP with 10x leverage and if market reached $100k he will definitely make more money then you as a future trader. And you as holder will not make much profit. He will make profit of upto 400% and you as a trade will make profit of upto %150 (around).

But we must keep the risk of leverage in mind too because with 10x leverage the trade becomes extremely risky and if market dumps to $65k even the trade might be liquidated and all the funds will be lost but in spot trading they won't get liquidated. So it's risky play for future traders I will prefer holding as I am also doing it and doing future at the CMP is so idiotic.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

If you want to estimate the probability of possible earnings, then it seems to me that during the bullrun it can be approximately equal, but perhaps the helder is able to get a greater profit even here, because he will not make unnecessary movements, but simply wait for the selling price, while the trader can exit the transaction and enter again during this time. Yes, there is a possibility that the trader can make several more successful transactions, but in reality everything works a little differently and not everyone is so lucky.

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Quote from: X-ray on October 30, 2024, 09:12:26 PM

it depends on the trader itself, if he can trade well, the profit could surpass any BTC holder easily, just imagine leveraging with 20x when rally occurs, when BTC doing 2x, the trader already profited 20x of its initial capital. that without counting if the trader is so good at swing trading, basically selling at every resistance and buying at every support with 100% win rate.

You are correct in general, the trader always gets more profit from the holder since the trader earns from the quantity of his trades. Eg. he doesn't need to sell any coins from his capital (wallet in hodlers case) but the profit from his trades and only if he needs to "cash out". Plus the hodlers always want a bull market while the trader doesn't. Without ups and downs, there is no profit for the trader.

Quote from: X-ray on October 30, 2024, 09:12:26 PM

but you also should know that trading isn't as simple as that, the market often time try to make things difficult for trader with sudden dips. with just one big dips alone a trader can lose their entire's month profit if they aren't good at managing their trade.
so if you ask who make more profit during bull market, it depends.

The major issue is that the trader doesn't know when a rally will occur, especially in the crypto market. And if he notices it, he can't be certain that it will continue to the point that he thinks. The risk with leverage trading is huge and can be disastrous in a matter of minutes, as you said. For me, a good trader doesn't even need to play with leverage trading and be in the "red zone" continuously. Can easily make a good profit without it.

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OP, during a bull market? Because 90% of "traders" lose money and/or are less efficient with their capital most of the time, I believe that simple HODLers will profit more than 50% of "traders". I merely said 50% as a safe percentage, but it could actually be more.

If a trader denominates his capital in Bitcoin and he/she didn't make more units of Bitcoin after the bull market, then it would have been better for him/her to merely just HODLed Bitcoin.

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Personally, hodli is easy to make profit from than trading, especially if you are not that good in trading. Let's not forget the risk in trading, and if the market goes against you, you will run at loss. I would prefer to hodli my bitcoin because my profit is 80% certain than running at loss. Hodli might not bring quick profit, but it has the chance of giving you bigger profits compared to trading in the long run. Perhaps, only few people are making money from trading.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Hodling is always the foremost strongest strategy for everyone, no matter how experienced they are in the world of investing. On the other hand, most traders make a loss and only a handful of the really good traders make a small, but steady profit.

So unless we are talking about an expert level trader, the hodler wins the competition by far.

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Holders I guess if we consider a regular trader vs regular holder. Trader can still lose or buy a little bit higher after they take profit which means their average buy price can be higher compared to the holder during the bullish period.

The only time trader can be on disadvantages is of they can execute a flawless trading which they can re-enter below the price which they sold their last holdings until the price reach selling price of the holders.

But this is very hard to do as regular trader that’s why I’m biased with holders that can gain more profit on bullrun.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Because of the potential that trading has, I will pick trading so long as the trader involved is someone who has proper knowledge. A trader will be able to profit more from the bull run better than a holder because he'll be able to flip any capital he has into something higher just as the value of what he has is increasing. There is less risk involved with just holding, so a very disciplined holder on the turn of things will do better than a bad trader who does not have enough knowledge before trading. Traders will only reduce their risk and increase their chance of making better profit than holders if they learn more.

Topic: Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 6. (Read 1440 times)