Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 6.

Jegileman

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

The millionaires in my own view should be the traders even though they’re not going to be many as those who hold for a long time till bull run. What distinguishes them is that, as a a trader, you’ll be risking a lot while trading to make sufficient money as those that have hold for long, it will only make you become more emotional and apply some proper risk management before you’ll get it right.

While as an holder, at bull run, you just watch the market bringing in those profits for you and you just basically have to sit down and watch your portfolio grow. It involves very low or no risk, no emotions attached and just excitement to see your saving ma grow bigger after waiting for a long time for it to grow.

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Quote from: Rockstarguy on October 31, 2024, 03:48:38 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

I think hodlers have more profits in the bull market expecially for those who are into longterm investment, you just need to be patient and hodl till you are satisfied with the profit you have earned. The bull market still remains when trader makes quick profit and this profit is not always certain when the traders enters the market at the wrong. In the bull market it is still possible for a trader to lose when the trader is trading with emotion. The bull market is not a guarantee for traders to make a lot of profits, if you are not using the right strategies it is possible for you to still be at lose. In the bull market sometimes the market goes dip, this can also affect which the trader can decide to sell because of fear of losing.

Very well, those that bought their bitcoin holdings when the price was way low, stand the chance to profits much during a bull market and have less chances of selling off their bitcoin when the bull just started or even getting caught up in the Web of confusion where the until their lost that already accumulated profits due to bad decisions.

And as a holder one can send your bitcoin to any address, unlike with derivatives position where the holder doesn't have bitcoin in real time and what you have is just a marked position that generate interest along the line.

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Trading is an unrealized world, we can't really know how they will do, so we can't really predict who does better. There are traders which will do better than holders and there are traders which will do worse. We are sure about holders and what they make but at the same time if they keep holding afterwards then they will do bad there too.

So all in all, I would say this isn't really a problem, and I would say this is going to make things a bit worse on the long run. So if you are asking which one you should be, I would say it depends on your talents as a trader, if you are a great trader then you are going to make a lot of money but if you are a terrible trader then I would suggest just holding and trying to sell at the peak point of this bull run.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

I think hodlers have more profits in the bull market expecially for those who are into longterm investment, you just need to be patient and hodl till you are satisfied with the profit you have earned. The bull market still remains when trader makes quick profit and this profit is not always certain when the traders enters the market at the wrong. In the bull market it is still possible for a trader to lose when the trader is trading with emotion. The bull market is not a guarantee for traders to make a lot of profits, if you are not using the right strategies it is possible for you to still be at lose. In the bull market sometimes the market goes dip, this can also affect which the trader can decide to sell because of fear of losing.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Also more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Both can be profitable because during the bull market most cryptocurrency do well hence hodling and trading can't make you profits depending on your capital and the knowledge you have about the market. Trading has more work to do though than hodling as by hodling and not having to do too much, you can make same, similar or more profits than a trader. A traders can be victorious in some trades but lose in other trades but a hodler is going to make profits and his, is more certain that it's going to happen.

Futhermore, there are more millionaires in Bitcoin that got there through hodling than those that got there by trading only Bitcoin. A considerable amount of traders didn't get to be a millionaire from trading but selling courses on trading and getting into some projects early so they're part time investors.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

There are things that are not clear yet. If you buy Bitcoin at $35k, let's say for instance you bought a full Bitcoin worth $35k and the price reach $100k,yoy Wil be having a whooping profit of $65k profits without anyone stopping you from selling. However, when it comes to a person trying to open long position (in this case long a position), it's depend on where exactly the buyer open the position.

Here is what I understand about longing and shorting position. If for instance you want to make similar $65k poroft but you don't have the capital to buy large, you will have to increase your leverage position by going more higher but the higher your leverage, the higher your liquidation risk but if you have the capital, to make something similar in profit wouldn't be a problem and your liquidation wouldn't be a problem. I will advice you look through how to leverage position and how to use the calculator.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

If the question is who is more profitable, actually both can be profitable. if the position you open is good and lasts until the profit is satisfactory, meaning there is no drop in the price of Bitcoin which causes your position to be liquidated, you can get big profits in a short time. but the movement of the price of Bitcoin even though it is in a bull run, we know it does not always continue to trend up.

I think the holder is more comfortable. the time required is indeed longer, but there is peace in its application before reaping the profits. there is no pressure as big as when you place your trading position.
I know we are not discussing pressure and risk. both traders and holders, I think both can get good profits if we really understand and do it well.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

If one can trade professionally then surely he can make better profit than the holder according to the duration of time. But there is also a lot of risk here, but those who hold have to accept risk, but there is no big risk. Because long-term investment in strong crypto currency like Bitcoin is more likely to make profit. so I would definitely support holding more as there is a relaxed profit to be made here. In the case of trading, many times we have to lose a lot, in this case we have a mental stress. so holding is definitely a good strategy to avoid everything and make good profit in relaxed way

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

So I made some calculations and it was pretty much obvious that if a person chose to take entry at CMP with 10x leverage and if market reached $100k he will definitely make more money then you as a future trader. And you as holder will not make much profit. He will make profit of upto 400% and you as a trade will make profit of upto %150 (around).

But we must keep the risk of leverage in mind too because with 10x leverage the trade becomes extremely risky and if market dumps to $65k even the trade might be liquidated and all the funds will be lost but in spot trading they won't get liquidated. So it's risky play for future traders I will prefer holding as I am also doing it and doing future at the CMP is so idiotic.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

If you want to estimate the probability of possible earnings, then it seems to me that during the bullrun it can be approximately equal, but perhaps the helder is able to get a greater profit even here, because he will not make unnecessary movements, but simply wait for the selling price, while the trader can exit the transaction and enter again during this time. Yes, there is a possibility that the trader can make several more successful transactions, but in reality everything works a little differently and not everyone is so lucky.

bias

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Quote from: X-ray on October 30, 2024, 09:12:26 PM

it depends on the trader itself, if he can trade well, the profit could surpass any BTC holder easily, just imagine leveraging with 20x when rally occurs, when BTC doing 2x, the trader already profited 20x of its initial capital. that without counting if the trader is so good at swing trading, basically selling at every resistance and buying at every support with 100% win rate.

You are correct in general, the trader always gets more profit from the holder since the trader earns from the quantity of his trades. Eg. he doesn't need to sell any coins from his capital (wallet in hodlers case) but the profit from his trades and only if he needs to "cash out". Plus the hodlers always want a bull market while the trader doesn't. Without ups and downs, there is no profit for the trader.

Quote from: X-ray on October 30, 2024, 09:12:26 PM

but you also should know that trading isn't as simple as that, the market often time try to make things difficult for trader with sudden dips. with just one big dips alone a trader can lose their entire's month profit if they aren't good at managing their trade.
so if you ask who make more profit during bull market, it depends.

The major issue is that the trader doesn't know when a rally will occur, especially in the crypto market. And if he notices it, he can't be certain that it will continue to the point that he thinks. The risk with leverage trading is huge and can be disastrous in a matter of minutes, as you said. For me, a good trader doesn't even need to play with leverage trading and be in the "red zone" continuously. Can easily make a good profit without it.

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OP, during a bull market? Because 90% of "traders" lose money and/or are less efficient with their capital most of the time, I believe that simple HODLers will profit more than 50% of "traders". I merely said 50% as a safe percentage, but it could actually be more.

If a trader denominates his capital in Bitcoin and he/she didn't make more units of Bitcoin after the bull market, then it would have been better for him/her to merely just HODLed Bitcoin.

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Personally, hodli is easy to make profit from than trading, especially if you are not that good in trading. Let's not forget the risk in trading, and if the market goes against you, you will run at loss. I would prefer to hodli my bitcoin because my profit is 80% certain than running at loss. Hodli might not bring quick profit, but it has the chance of giving you bigger profits compared to trading in the long run. Perhaps, only few people are making money from trading.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

When we talk about bull market we talking of a 2x price appreciation, and let take bitcoin for example, who profits more between a long term and me holder who bought bitcoin at a price range of $35,000 and bitcoin reaching $100,000, so a trader who open his trading position of 10 and with a good amount of capital around when the price is 71,000, so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Taking this question out of my personal curiosity of the market and how each bull run. Ale more millionaires in the bitcoin ecosystem, via trading vs holding.

Hodling is always the foremost strongest strategy for everyone, no matter how experienced they are in the world of investing. On the other hand, most traders make a loss and only a handful of the really good traders make a small, but steady profit.

So unless we are talking about an expert level trader, the hodler wins the competition by far.

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Holders I guess if we consider a regular trader vs regular holder. Trader can still lose or buy a little bit higher after they take profit which means their average buy price can be higher compared to the holder during the bullish period.

The only time trader can be on disadvantages is of they can execute a flawless trading which they can re-enter below the price which they sold their last holdings until the price reach selling price of the holders.

But this is very hard to do as regular trader that’s why I’m biased with holders that can gain more profit on bullrun.

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Quote from: Wiwo on October 30, 2024, 02:44:38 PM

so between the two who stand the chance of profiting more putting into consideration the timing that it involved for both parties.

Because of the potential that trading has, I will pick trading so long as the trader involved is someone who has proper knowledge. A trader will be able to profit more from the bull run better than a holder because he'll be able to flip any capital he has into something higher just as the value of what he has is increasing. There is less risk involved with just holding, so a very disciplined holder on the turn of things will do better than a bad trader who does not have enough knowledge before trading. Traders will only reduce their risk and increase their chance of making better profit than holders if they learn more.

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Quote from: Peanutswar on October 31, 2024, 09:57:18 AM

It depends on the market situation, but for its a win-win for both if you have this

The situation is the same, in a same bull market. In this discussion, investors and traders are participating in a same market, bullish.

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in the first case if you are kind of busy person and you still want to get ride with the market you don't need to get bothered with the market volatility because you can leave your asset into your wallet. Note again in your wallet not in exchange. and do a take profit if you think its enough for you.

It's not your private keys, it's not your bitcoins.

Investors don't have need to trade daily so it's best and safest for them to withdraw bitcoins for holding to their non custodial wallets (need to be open source wallets too).

Reminder: do not keep your money in online accounts

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In the second case if you know to yourself you are a good trader you can ride with the market price action and get a fast earning because you can make a profit gains every move unlike in spot you are just waiting with the pump and in the futures trading you are getting earning with the pump and dumps

Trading is not easy in bull market because if you don't pick perfect price for sellings and rebuying, you will lose your bitcoin. You can get profit with spot trading in a bull run but will get less profit than holding.

If you trade with Futures, Margins, you will get loss, not profit.

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There will be winners and losers in a bull market, not everyone makes a profit. It can be said that it all depends on your knowledge and skills whether you are a long term investor or a trader. But overall I think holders will benefit more because even during bull season, Bitcoin volatility is still very unpredictable in the short term. Traders still face many challenges and market fluctuations, so the loss rate is still higher and making profits is not easy.

In every bull cycle I hear a lot of stories about someone making thousands of percent returns or millions of dollars from investing and holding , I rarely hear of someone making millions from trading and getting rich from trading . That is why I believe holding will give better returns than trading .

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It depends on the market situation, but for its a win-win for both if you have this, in the first case if you are kind of busy person and you still want to get ride with the market you don't need to get bothered with the market volatility because you can leave your asset into your wallet. Note again in your wallet not in exchange. and do a take profit if you think its enough for you. In the second case if you know to yourself you are a good trader you can ride with the market price action and get a fast earning because you can make a profit gains every move unlike in spot you are just waiting with the pump and in the futures trading you are getting earning with the pump and dumps

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Quote from: YOSHIE on October 31, 2024, 07:52:45 AM

In my understanding, if crypto market conditions are bullish, my assessment is that the winners and profits are the holders, provided they buy when the price is cheapest and sell when the price is high, in fact this situation is commonly known by users crypto.

That's how we have a famous saying "If you can't HOLD, you won't be rich". This saying went viral with Changpeng Zao in 2021 [1], but I am unsure that Changpeng Zao is a first person who said this. Perhaps he is not the first person said so, but the first one who succeeded to make it viral on media.

[1] https://x.com/cz_binance/status/1359529612024270851

60% of Bitcoin is Held Long Term as Digital Gold. What About the Rest

HODL camp shows power of HODL that can help you to avoid loss and increase your profit too. [2]

[2] https://hodl.camp/

Topic: Who profits more during bull Market, trader vs holder? - page 6. (Read 1354 times)