Who should quit, and why? - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

michellee

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Quote from: Reredmi896 on May 09, 2024, 10:19:22 PM

Quote from: HelliumZ on May 01, 2024, 05:19:50 PM

But if that family is dependent on gambling and runs the family from the money earned from gambling then parents should not participate in gambling in front of the child for the time being.

Why do you say gambling is a job to fulfill family needs? What about the risk of losing? Shouldn't gambling be for games only, not for a full-time job?

If he used gambling as a job, he would not be able to provide for the family. He must remember that he will not always be able to make a profit in gambling. He could experience many losses and lose all his money at the gambling table.

The risk of losing will also be greater if he cannot control himself. When gambling, a person can lose control of himself which causes him to lose a lot of money. He should use gambling as entertainment only and not make gambling a job.

He can look for a real job to earn money for his family. It would be safer because he wouldn't have to lose money at the gambling table. He can also avoid possible gambling addiction.

Reredmi896

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Quote from: HelliumZ on May 01, 2024, 05:19:50 PM

But if that family is dependent on gambling and runs the family from the money earned from gambling then parents should not participate in gambling in front of the child for the time being.

Why do you say gambling is a job to fulfill family needs? What about the risk of losing? Shouldn't gambling be for games only, not for a full-time job?

angrybirdy

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Quote from: Orpichukwu on May 09, 2024, 10:05:32 PM

Quote from: Bravut on May 09, 2024, 09:33:16 PM

Quote from: Lida93 on December 10, 2023, 06:55:58 AM

Hey house someone need a few clips here, don't know if a post of this exact nature has been discussed though.

In a situation where the both spouse are gamblers. Husband gambles, wife gambles, how can both of them manage the situation in terms of finance and the family affairs especially when children are now involve so that the time both spends on gambling doesn't affect family moments and affairs in general.

Would it help if one of the couple quit for the other and if that's the case who should quit for who.

Smiles, seems like a job lol. If quitting is an option both short quit as gambling isn’t a means of income or survival. The family solely depends on both and if both gambles without limitation wether one or the other the family will still get wreck. The Husband might use the money meant for household needs to gamble likewise the wife using money for cooking or purchasing items, shopping for children to gamble too.

This could only happen when the person in question lacks self control, as well as the ability to get hold of their emotions, because if a gambler is in control of their emotions, it'll be very difficult to use money meant to sort another expense to gamble and hope to winning and replacing it.

Such a person would know that gambling isn't sure and anything can happening the missile of the game, winning isn't certain and the potential of losses are very much there.

we really need to be able to handle our own emotions because once you fall on what you feel, the barrier that you have created may be broken so that your own decision, financial securities and sound thinking are not affected because we know that one wrong move can lose everything. When we gamble, we always set aside other issues because we are only focused on our goal and it cannot be accompanied by other issues because it will be a reason for us to lose focus on gambling and lose.

Orpichukwu

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Quote from: Bravut on May 09, 2024, 09:33:16 PM

Quote from: Lida93 on December 10, 2023, 06:55:58 AM

Hey house someone need a few clips here, don't know if a post of this exact nature has been discussed though.

In a situation where the both spouse are gamblers. Husband gambles, wife gambles, how can both of them manage the situation in terms of finance and the family affairs especially when children are now involve so that the time both spends on gambling doesn't affect family moments and affairs in general.

Would it help if one of the couple quit for the other and if that's the case who should quit for who.

Smiles, seems like a job lol. If quitting is an option both short quit as gambling isn’t a means of income or survival. The family solely depends on both and if both gambles without limitation wether one or the other the family will still get wreck. The Husband might use the money meant for household needs to gamble likewise the wife using money for cooking or purchasing items, shopping for children to gamble too.

This could only happen when the person in question lacks self control, as well as the ability to get hold of their emotions, because if a gambler is in control of their emotions, it'll be very difficult to use money meant to sort another expense to gamble and hope to winning and replacing it.

Such a person would know that gambling isn't sure and anything can happening the missile of the game, winning isn't certain and the potential of losses are very much there.

Bravut

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Quote from: Lida93 on December 10, 2023, 06:55:58 AM

Hey house someone need a few clips here, don't know if a post of this exact nature has been discussed though.

In a situation where the both spouse are gamblers. Husband gambles, wife gambles, how can both of them manage the situation in terms of finance and the family affairs especially when children are now involve so that the time both spends on gambling doesn't affect family moments and affairs in general.

Would it help if one of the couple quit for the other and if that's the case who should quit for who.

Smiles, seems like a job lol. If quitting is an option both short quit as gambling isn’t a means of income or survival. The family solely depends on both and if both gambles without limitation wether one or the other the family will still get wreck. The Husband might use the money meant for household needs to gamble likewise the wife using money for cooking or purchasing items, shopping for children to gamble too.

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Quote from: adpinbr on May 09, 2024, 05:21:45 PM

Sometimes it happens that the wife and the husband do Gamble
But if the both of them knows that they are gamble, they can control their lives very well and also organized and winning unless they won’t have much problem in gambling.

Self-control in the gambling that we do is of course very important because if we cannot do this of course there will be things that we don't want to experience, of course this will be very detrimental to us, especially if we gamble with our partner, so this will make it difficult for us to meet the necessary needs, in a husband and wife relationship of course we must be able to remind each other to gamble well and always be able to control our emotions so that there is no greed when gambling and this will cause us to experience losses for ourselves.

It's true that when you have a family like yours, it's best to be able to control how much money is specifically used for gambling. Don't spend too much of everything in one day and we really have to divide the finances we have well, so that all the money we have can be used for what we use it for, when all the money spent is recorded neatly, then we will see how much a lot of money has been used for gambling and maybe it will be considered again when the value of the loss is large enough.

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Quote from: adpinbr on May 09, 2024, 05:21:45 PM

Sometimes it happens that the wife and the husband do Gamble
But if the both of them knows that they are gamble, they can control their lives very well and also organized and winning unless they won’t have much problem in gambling. They always do the right thing and gamble when it’s needed because they will put her together and try to bring us something out of a small amount of money because the nose test. They have abuse to pee but sometimes when it doesn’t goes this way it’s causes My problem to them because they will be posts of the self. Nobody will advise each other.

Curious you share that opinion about couples who gamble together, because I am yet to see in person a couple who both enjoy sharing such hobby with each other. It is not a secret most gamblers are men, and women rarely get involved in it (even if they wanted) for the sake of the household economy and because someone is supposed to take care of children. I have got the personal impression it is more likely for a couple to have problems and arguments over money and management of finances if both of them are involved in gambling.
It can be already difficult if the husbsnd ends up losing control over his budget and his habit starts to negatively affect the family economy and their way of life, now imagine how economically crippling it would be for all of them if both adults if the house were trapped in such situation.

I think if I ever get engaged, rather than introduce gambling to my fiance or share my experience with her, I would step down by wager and focus on saving money for the future.

Orpichukwu

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Quote from: Cyber_warrior on February 19, 2024, 04:23:46 PM

Yes. It is imperative that we abstain from gambling in front of our children, particularly if they are old enough. Whilst both spouses are allowed to gamble, this is only an agreement between the two of them as not everyone is aware of this type of circumstance. To be clear, even if my wife does decide to gambling, it will be with my money, thus I won't let her do it in the first place. Considering that my spouse and I are gamblers, what use will it be? In the end, I don't think it will have any beneficial effects.

And what age do you consider to be old enough, if I may ask? And if you said they were old enough for them to understand gambling, then what's the point of parents not gambling in front of their kids?

If the child is old enough for him or her to gamble, then there is no point for their parents to hide their gambling habits from them because, without them gambling in front of them, they will still go ahead and gamble whenever they want.

If the child is old enough, sometimes I think it's best if the parent can discuss gambling with them in order for them to share gambling tips and experiences with them. This helps put them on the right track.

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Quote from: Su-asa on May 02, 2024, 07:01:10 AM

Quote from: HelliumZ on May 01, 2024, 05:19:50 PM

It is normal that both husband and wife of a family can be gamblers together but if there are children in that family, it becomes unusual for parents to participate in gambling as guardians. So an ideal guardian should exempt either parent from gambling. Especially the mother is more close to the child so an ideal mother will sometimes ruin the child's future, the mother should first refrain from gambling, then the father will control himself from gambling after understanding the situation. But if that family is dependent on gambling and runs the family from the money earned from gambling then parents should not participate in gambling in front of the child for the time being.

It's very bad for both husband's and wife's to gamble even when they don't have children, gamble might be a thing of fun to them but don't I think we should all get it right that gamble is a thing one should enjoy, so if a whole family especially husband and wife, they might have problems with their gambling habits. If they gamble and their children is also aware that they gamble it will be very bad for the children because the children will try gambe some day and the children will be worst than their parents, some people are into gamble today because their friends or someone from their family made them to.

The compulsive gambler should be gotten to halt their gambling habit as it could begin to affect the family. Players who are both spouses and are unable to control their activities are a threat to the successful growth of a meaning society. Such things have its duties and functions which maintains or retains those expenses of a player. Not controlling it or allowing the gambler do everything all to themselves, would cause future troubles for the gambler's family. As the kids would be forcefully interested in the game and trying to win not just a designated amount, but such that could take good care of their family for a longer time.

The compulsive tendencies of watching our spouses gamble alongside us makes the eligibility of this habit thin, as only few gamblers get fine or accept the notion of having a compulsive spouse as gambler. Holding them back to their senses helps the people in the same environment with the people. It also depends completely on the location the gambler has found himself with his family. Some areas are not supportive of unworthy gambling behavior. Although, it's the right thing, doing, to help secure the peace and harmony of the environment.

adpinbr

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Sometimes it happens that the wife and the husband do Gamble
But if the both of them knows that they are gamble, they can control their lives very well and also organized and winning unless they won’t have much problem in gambling. They always do the right thing and gamble when it’s needed because they will put her together and try to bring us something out of a small amount of money because the nose test. They have abuse to pee but sometimes when it doesn’t goes this way it’s causes My problem to them because they will be posts of the self. Nobody will advise each other.

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Quote from: dezoel on May 02, 2024, 06:48:22 AM

If a gambler knows that they are getting out of control and losing a lot of money and time in gambling, and that in return is hurting their family and his relationship with them, that is the moment they should decide who is more important because they are going to have to lose one of them and you can't lose your family for anything, gambling is nothing more than an activity.

That is true, if a person does not decide what his top priority is, then it is a matter of that eprosna, because many of us without hesitation choose the benefit of the family, it is or is something that we are clear about, but there are people who are not Thus, there are people who sometimes prefer other things over their family, I will always choose my family, but sometimes there are people who do not give them the corresponding importance and that is very sad, the truth is that they are people I do not know, That's just what they want, that's why I'm very clear about it, for me that's the first thing, and then other enjoyments come, as long as things can happen that way.

Jody.Drummer

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Quote from: Su-asa on May 02, 2024, 07:01:10 AM

Quote from: HelliumZ on May 01, 2024, 05:19:50 PM

Quote from: Lida93 on December 10, 2023, 06:55:58 AM

Hey house someone need a few clips here, don't know if a post of this exact nature has been discussed though.

In a situation where the both spouse are gamblers. Husband gambles, wife gambles, how can both of them manage the situation in terms of finance and the family affairs especially when children are now involve so that the time both spends on gambling doesn't affect family moments and affairs in general.

Would it help if one of the couple quit for the other and if that's the case who should quit for who.

It is normal that both husband and wife of a family can be gamblers together but if there are children in that family, it becomes unusual for parents to participate in gambling as guardians. So an ideal guardian should exempt either parent from gambling. Especially the mother is more close to the child so an ideal mother will sometimes ruin the child's future, the mother should first refrain from gambling, then the father will control himself from gambling after understanding the situation. But if that family is dependent on gambling and runs the family from the money earned from gambling then parents should not participate in gambling in front of the child for the time being.

It's very bad for both husband's and wife's to gamble even when they don't have children, gamble might be a thing of fun to them but don't I think we should all get it right that gamble is a thing one should enjoy, so if a whole family especially husband and wife, they might have problems with their gambling habits. If they gamble and their children is also aware that they gamble it will be very bad for the children because the children will try gambe some day and the children will be worst than their parents, some people are into gamble today because their friends or someone from their family made them to.

Right, anyway it's best that both of them don't get involved or stop being involved in gambling, we don't need to look at who should stop between the wife or the husband and it doesn't matter even if you don't have children yet the best option is to stop gambling completely, on the other hand I understand that maybe it's a difficult decision to follow but anyway it's the best. I think it's a fact that there's going to be some money spent on gambling and obviously if they both quit gambling then they can save more money and use it for other more important needs. And on the other hand you also mentioned about the possibility that when they have a child there is a possibility that the child will be infected with the gambling habits of the parents, and that could threaten the future and personality of the child, and honestly I can't imagine what the situation would be if the whole family was involved in gambling, losing the financial balance in the family is a certainty.

Hirose UK

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on May 01, 2024, 04:53:25 PM

Quote from: JMBitcointernational on May 01, 2024, 04:34:26 PM

Naturally , man is the Head of the Family And should Find a means To provide for his Family , And If gambling will make him To Care for his Family the Woman should quit And also Respect the man as the Head . Imagine the shame when you enter casino house And see husband and Wife dragging To bet, ordinarily it is an insult To the man for not caring for his Family And allowing his Wife To gamble . It is also a disgrace To the man therefore the Woman should quit gambling .

Sometimes what he says may or may not be applicable, as a man yes, it is the natural stupidity of responding to all things, I have always said something if we seek the best for our family, there are things that we must stop doing and start doing Other times, we as men and heads of family, if we see that an activity will tempt towards the well-being of our family, we have to suspend it, leave it there, nothing can be done, it is something that has to be done, of course. The rest will be worse if not It does, I can say it from my point of view because that's who I am, but people who don't have that decision-making power, well, everything starts to get complicated, regardless. whether he has a wife who is also in the game and not. If you want to leave, you must leave.

But if both of them are involved in gambling then it will be much more difficult because man who can be said to be the head of the family must really set good example for his family.
For example, if man wants his wife to leave gambling, the husband must also be able to leave gambling as form of commitment that together they will build much better family in the future.
If it is only done by putting pressure on one party, as in the term, the husband really pressures his wife to stop but he as the husband doesn't stop, then everything will be the same and this will be waste of time.
So the conclusion is that if think about it logically and really prioritize justice then they should both be able to start and stop at the same time, this is much better and will be very effective.

harapan

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Quote from: Ben Barubal on December 10, 2023, 08:25:03 AM

Quote from: Lida93 on December 10, 2023, 06:55:58 AM

Hey house someone need a few clips here, don't know if a post of this exact nature has been discussed though.

In a situation where the both spouse are gamblers. Husband gambles, wife gambles, how can both of them manage the situation in terms of finance and the family affairs especially when children are now involve so that the time both spends on gambling doesn't affect family moments and affairs in general.

Would it help if one of the couple quit for the other and if that's the case who should quit for who.

I think it seems like it was just discussed here in the gambling section, like you are talking about here. It is difficult to have both parents addicted to gambling. And it is impossible that their children do not see that. Except that it depends on the age of their child, who has a broad mind about gambling.

Even if one of them quits, it will be difficult for him to do that 100%, and of course he still sees that his wife will gamble. Maybe it would be better if they both stopped gambling; that would be better so they wouldn't be tempted to gamble.

Mmmm for me I think the wife should stop gambling because she has a lot task to handle as being focused in moulding the kids, mostly the Man don't have much time to stay at home doing such except when he wants to help out but finding both of them doing same thing isn't going to help the kids grow at balance cause they might grow up doing same thing they have watched their parents do.

The wife should stop,I don't see it as bad for a woman to gamble but in a responsible manner but mind you two wrongs can't make a right,one must advice the other,so it's better either of them stops tho.
But again why will both parents be gambling at the same time,are they going through financial crisis that they feel Gambling will sort it out or what.

Su-asa

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Quote from: HelliumZ on May 01, 2024, 05:19:50 PM

Quote from: Lida93 on December 10, 2023, 06:55:58 AM

Hey house someone need a few clips here, don't know if a post of this exact nature has been discussed though.

In a situation where the both spouse are gamblers. Husband gambles, wife gambles, how can both of them manage the situation in terms of finance and the family affairs especially when children are now involve so that the time both spends on gambling doesn't affect family moments and affairs in general.

Would it help if one of the couple quit for the other and if that's the case who should quit for who.

It is normal that both husband and wife of a family can be gamblers together but if there are children in that family, it becomes unusual for parents to participate in gambling as guardians. So an ideal guardian should exempt either parent from gambling. Especially the mother is more close to the child so an ideal mother will sometimes ruin the child's future, the mother should first refrain from gambling, then the father will control himself from gambling after understanding the situation. But if that family is dependent on gambling and runs the family from the money earned from gambling then parents should not participate in gambling in front of the child for the time being.

It's very bad for both husband's and wife's to gamble even when they don't have children, gamble might be a thing of fun to them but don't I think we should all get it right that gamble is a thing one should enjoy, so if a whole family especially husband and wife, they might have problems with their gambling habits. If they gamble and their children is also aware that they gamble it will be very bad for the children because the children will try gambe some day and the children will be worst than their parents, some people are into gamble today because their friends or someone from their family made them to.

dezoel

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on May 01, 2024, 04:53:25 PM

Quote from: JMBitcointernational on May 01, 2024, 04:34:26 PM

Naturally , man is the Head of the Family And should Find a means To provide for his Family , And If gambling will make him To Care for his Family the Woman should quit And also Respect the man as the Head . Imagine the shame when you enter casino house And see husband and Wife dragging To bet, ordinarily it is an insult To the man for not caring for his Family And allowing his Wife To gamble . It is also a disgrace To the man therefore the Woman should quit gambling .

Sometimes what he says may or may not be applicable, as a man yes, it is the natural stupidity of responding to all things, I have always said something if we seek the best for our family, there are things that we must stop doing and start doing Other times, we as men and heads of family, if we see that an activity will tempt towards the well-being of our family, we have to suspend it, leave it there, nothing can be done, it is something that has to be done, of course. The rest will be worse if not It does, I can say it from my point of view because that's who I am, but people who don't have that decision-making power, well, everything starts to get complicated, regardless. whether he has a wife who is also in the game and not. If you want to leave, you must leave.

A responsible person will always have their priorities sorted, and since we know how important the family is to us, we need to make sure we are keeping them on the first position when we are making a decision, so our decision should have no direct negative effects for our family which means that if we are about to do something, we should make sure that doing that thing wouldn't harm our family or as you said, their well-being, and if it does, we shouldn't do it.

If a gambler knows that they are getting out of control and losing a lot of money and time in gambling, and that in return is hurting their family and his relationship with them, that is the moment they should decide who is more important because they are going to have to lose one of them and you can't lose your family for anything, gambling is nothing more than an activity.

HelliumZ

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Quote from: Lida93 on December 10, 2023, 06:55:58 AM

Hey house someone need a few clips here, don't know if a post of this exact nature has been discussed though.

In a situation where the both spouse are gamblers. Husband gambles, wife gambles, how can both of them manage the situation in terms of finance and the family affairs especially when children are now involve so that the time both spends on gambling doesn't affect family moments and affairs in general.

Would it help if one of the couple quit for the other and if that's the case who should quit for who.

It is normal that both husband and wife of a family can be gamblers together but if there are children in that family, it becomes unusual for parents to participate in gambling as guardians. So an ideal guardian should exempt either parent from gambling. Especially the mother is more close to the child so an ideal mother will sometimes ruin the child's future, the mother should first refrain from gambling, then the father will control himself from gambling after understanding the situation. But if that family is dependent on gambling and runs the family from the money earned from gambling then parents should not participate in gambling in front of the child for the time being.

danadc

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Quote from: Accardo on February 20, 2024, 11:49:34 AM

Quote from: Aanuoluwatofunmi on February 20, 2024, 08:55:02 AM

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on February 17, 2024, 12:43:55 PM

Yeah, never a good idea for both parents to engage in gambling, as no doubt, this could have a very bad negative impact on the children going while they are growing up to become teenagers, and teenagers into adults, the children could pick that up from their parents and that could turn the entire family into a den of chaos and confusion.

If the two parents are gamblers, then you should expect nothing from the child than being a chronic and addicted gambler, the son of a lion will surely roar like a lion, he will take much of gambling from his parents, but i wonder how they could both manage the home in bringing the children and having resource for their daily needs when they both gambles, can they even afford to make earnings? i doubt, we should leave a good example for our children to take and not care less about what our actions might put in them to become what they may never thought or imagine in life.

Cooperation is key in this type of family, where both spouses are gamblers. Not all will end up becoming compulsive, if they work alongside each other and caution one another, they can be responsible gamblers. I know that it's quite a tough one, if one of them gets addicted. And it'll be almost impossible for the kids not to find out about their parent's engagement into gambling. Especially when they discuss about their wins and losses. To be honest, the family can be run without having some financial challenges, if the parents set aside some funds for gambling, alone. However, isn't it better for both to be gamblers than one person, that hides it from the family and runs dry the finances of the home. No one is the right person to quit, instead both should end it and focus on training their kids. Because someday the kids will become gamblers, one way or another. Even if the parents are responsible players, the kids may not.

Compulsivity problems are something that we cannot control in our own lives, unless they have a type of treatment, I have a friend who suffers from that and it is difficult, he has to take a medication to calm them down and that is something delicate , they cannot receive strong coins, so in a casino I do not recommend that someone who is like this can play in a casino, the problem can involve the entire family, because it is something that can affect those who are the head of the family and that is But, I believe that games of chance in that case do not apply nor should people play, yes, that is what I have always said, however, because everyone is the owner of their actions, but with casinos, money, you must have careful.

LUCKMCFLY

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Quote from: JMBitcointernational on May 01, 2024, 04:34:26 PM

Naturally , man is the Head of the Family And should Find a means To provide for his Family , And If gambling will make him To Care for his Family the Woman should quit And also Respect the man as the Head . Imagine the shame when you enter casino house And see husband and Wife dragging To bet, ordinarily it is an insult To the man for not caring for his Family And allowing his Wife To gamble . It is also a disgrace To the man therefore the Woman should quit gambling .

Sometimes what he says may or may not be applicable, as a man yes, it is the natural stupidity of responding to all things, I have always said something if we seek the best for our family, there are things that we must stop doing and start doing Other times, we as men and heads of family, if we see that an activity will tempt towards the well-being of our family, we have to suspend it, leave it there, nothing can be done, it is something that has to be done, of course. The rest will be worse if not It does, I can say it from my point of view because that's who I am, but people who don't have that decision-making power, well, everything starts to get complicated, regardless. whether he has a wife who is also in the game and not. If you want to leave, you must leave.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: Accardo on February 20, 2024, 11:49:34 AM

Quote from: Aanuoluwatofunmi on February 20, 2024, 08:55:02 AM

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on February 17, 2024, 12:43:55 PM

Yeah, never a good idea for both parents to engage in gambling, as no doubt, this could have a very bad negative impact on the children going while they are growing up to become teenagers, and teenagers into adults, the children could pick that up from their parents and that could turn the entire family into a den of chaos and confusion.

If the two parents are gamblers, then you should expect nothing from the child than being a chronic and addicted gambler, the son of a lion will surely roar like a lion, he will take much of gambling from his parents, but i wonder how they could both manage the home in bringing the children and having resource for their daily needs when they both gambles, can they even afford to make earnings? i doubt, we should leave a good example for our children to take and not care less about what our actions might put in them to become what they may never thought or imagine in life.

Cooperation is key in this type of family, where both spouses are gamblers. Not all will end up becoming compulsive, if they work alongside each other and caution one another, they can be responsible gamblers. I know that it's quite a tough one, if one of them gets addicted. And it'll be almost impossible for the kids not to find out about their parent's engagement into gambling. Especially when they discuss about their wins and losses. To be honest, the family can be run without having some financial challenges, if the parents set aside some funds for gambling, alone. However, isn't it better for both to be gamblers than one person, that hides it from the family and runs dry the finances of the home. No one is the right person to quit, instead both should end it and focus on training their kids. Because someday the kids will become gamblers, one way or another. Even if the parents are responsible players, the kids may not.

Totally depends on how both of you would really be working out which husband and wife specially if you are both gamblers then its impossible that you wont really be able to notice out something wrong with your activities. This is why it would be best that you both would be assessing out the condition whether it would really be viable to quit or would be retaining on what you are doing. Its not really that bad to gamble
as long you wouldnt really be compromising when it comes to the finances that you do have or simply doesnt affect out your family's savings and other important matters when it comes to finances
because on the time that it would really be compromising it out then its already indicative sign that both of you are already that addicted to gambling and this is something that you should quit or stop as soon as possible. This is why it would better that dont make things becomes get worst before you would be making out that action on quitting up gambling. Be responsible and be wary on the things that it is happening.

Topic: Who should quit, and why? - page 2. (Read 2655 times)