Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 223. (Read 901342 times)

This is the sh*t I've heard all of my life: when you give logical, irrefutable proof to a religious nut, the only argument they have is: anything is possible with God. And that's it.

The validity comes about because of the fact that it exists as it does??
What does that even mean?
Something is because something is? The fact that the Harry Potter exists (it is written) doesn't mean the accounts in it are true.
And tradition and word of mouth are not proof.

First let me go back to the beginning. After Adam and Eve sinned, God came to them walking in the Garden. They hid themselves because they were naked. You can read about it in Genesis chapter 3. Specifically for our purposes, verse 8:
God is a Spirit. Spirits don't walk in gardens in the cool of the day. The one aspect of God Who is not only a Spirit only, but is also a man so that He can walk, is Jesus. Jesus was there right in the beginning, already helping people through their sins and mistakes. Read how He helped Adam and Eve, it's in the Bible, in Genesis 3.

Regarding Leviticus, the whole period of the Israel people from the time even before they left Egypt, and throughout the early years in Canaan, Jesus is there... in the form that He has in the beginning chapter(s) of the Revelation. Whenever you see the words "the Angel of the Lord" in the Old Testament, this is talking about Jesus, before He came in His humility - as a child born of Mary. If you see the words, "an angel," or "an angel of the Lord," it probably is not talking about Jesus.

The whole Bible is about Jesus and the things He did to save mankind. In addition, it is written in ways that the reader will get the best advantage out of it... by listening to the stories of real people who lived real lives of trouble, just like all of us.

As usual, we have to fear the Lord. That's not right - ruling through fear. That's the rule of the jungle. The most powerful rules. There was no need for laws and free will. Fear always works best.

So the Holy Spirit works better on the weak minded/spirited? That's really funny.
That would mean that the ones that are atheists have strong mindsets.
Thank you for the compliment. It's very welcome.

The validity comes about because of the fact that it exists as it does??
What does that even mean?
Something is because something is? The fact that the Harry Potter exists (it is written) doesn't mean the accounts in it are true.
And tradition and word of mouth are not proof.

Yeah - it's easy to call someone stupid without backing your words with anything. Although, you should never call someone stupid, even if they are - it's rude. Grow up!

Stories don't mean anything. Even if they are told by "real" people doesn't mean they are real.
Just once I'd like to see you say something concrete: God exists, and the proof is "X".
Something scientifically proven. Until now you haven't said a thing.

Yeah - it took me 5 years of studying theology to finally understand that it's all nonsense. That's my opinion, please respect it, I'll respect your and that's it. Don't force your ideas upon others. Go be with Jesus.

Logic - can't fight it. Not in this universe. Which, I for one, believe drives this current version of the universe we're living in.

Yeah - it took me 5 years of studying theology to finally understand that it's all nonsense. That's my opinion, please respect it, I'll respect your and that's it. Don't force your ideas upon others. Go be with Jesus.

The validity comes about because of the fact that it exists as it does??
What does that even mean?
Something is because something is? The fact that the Harry Potter exists (it is written) doesn't mean the accounts in it are true.
And tradition and word of mouth are not proof.

I'm sure Jesus is alive in heaven but He's not here on earth. And we, here, on earth, deal in real, objective, palpable things.

Have you read that little header above each of the gospels?

When were they written, according to your own bible? (many bibles give dates)

The earliest (Mark) is supposedly written 40 years after "Jesus" died, the latter ones as late as 140AD, over 100 years after Jesus died... now add 20 years since they were not children when they met Jesus...

Given the average lifespan was around 30 years at the time, I find it hard to believe that these 60-140 year old men wrote accurate accounts of what happened 40-100 years earlier...

How well do you remember events from 40+ years ago?

Much (maybe most) of the New Testament is eye-witness reports. The validity comes about because of the fact that it exists as it does, being backed by people who hang onto tradition (Christians of Israelite ancestry) more than they hold onto life itself. Their tradition is that the New Testament is truth.

Because Science comes from Wisdom which comes from fearing the Lord.


Best regards.

The idea of cause and effect suggests that there is no free will. But how can one talk to a materialistic scientist who doesn't believe in spirit and soul, but only believes in bio-mechanical operations of mind?

Just for you, friend. I'll say it again, and I have said it many times before. But you will have to think about it a little.

There are 3 points that prove the existence of God. There may be more. But these 3 will do it.
1. Cause and effect, which is really an expansion on Newton's 3rd Law.
2. Complex universe.
3. Universal entropy.


Cause and effect almost proves God all by itself. Consider that everything operates by cause and effect. Nothing that exists or acts, exists or acts except that something causes it to exist or act. This is basic, foundational science. And it is a law - Newton's 3rd - because it is evident all over the place in everything, and there has been nothing found that refutes it (although there are some guesses and theories that might refute it).

In other words, things happen because something made them happen, and we see nothing that started things happening in the first place.

How great universal cause and effect is, can be shown by the example of the pool/billiards professional. The pool professional announces what his shot is going to be, and the pocket the ball is going to toll into. Then he takes his shot. He hits the cue ball, which hits a second ball, which hits a third ball, which hits a fourth ball, which knocks the fifth ball into the prescribed pocket. This professional is quite good.

Whatever caused the universe, bumped untold numbers of electrons, and all kinds of other particles, and all kinds of energies, so that they bumped other electrons and things and energies, some 13 billion years ago (if scientists are near correct), which cause 13 billions of years of countless countless cause and effect reactions, that resulted in the complexity of mankind, and the complexity of the rest of the universe.

A good pool shark might be able to do the 5-ball thing now and again. If it was the Big Bang that started the universe, the Big Bang was so extremely smart that it made great complexity, including mankind and his mind - and spirit and soul if you believe in those things - after what seem to be 13 billion years of seemingly random cause and effect actions (which absolutely could not be random to make the complexity). If they were random, prehistoric man would have made jet planes long ago, and modern living would be a whole lot different.

Think of it. Think of all the photons that were caused, and all the activities they caused by their actions. And we are only talking about the simple universe that we know exists through astronomy. What about all the dimensional activity that we barely know anything about? All of it operating through cause and effect set off by whatever started everything going some 13 billion years ago (if you want to believe the accuracy of the accepted age of the earth).

This whole thing was pre-programmed! We see nothing other than cause and effect making things happen. And now, after 13 billion years, that cause and effect makes gigantic complexity. Whatever makes this complexity, must be even more complex... must have super-complex mind and spirit and intelligence to do things so far beyond what a pool shark could do.

When you add the fact of universal entropy (as far as we can see, and without being able to see anything opposite of entropy), Whatever the Thing was that started all this, doesn't seem to be doing much in a great way right now. Cause and effect suggests that it all was stated way back in the beginning.

The thing that started everything going in the pre-programmed fashion that it exists in, fits our definition of the word "God." In fact, our word "God" is way too limited to comprehend what the Being must be like. Yes, Being. Because He/It made us beings, and therefore had to be at least a being to comprehend what we would be like today, from the vantage point of 13 billion years ago.

Think about this, because my little writing here in no way does God justice. Volumes could be written expressing what I have said here. And it is all withing the realm of our scientific understanding.