Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 227. (Read 901362 times)

God is perfect. Not only was He right in the things that He did, the things that Satan may have accused Him of making a mistake in, but He was right in casting Satan and his hordes out.

However, God is so immensely powerful that, regarding Himself, All the angels of all the Heavens could have done nothing to come close to harming Him in the least.

The thing that God has always been trying to do is save some of the AI machines He has made, both angels and mankind.

Do you know why God made the good angels to be virtual servants and protectors of mankind? I mean, angels are far greater than people. Why not let angels rule? But God has made them to be servants of people. Why has He done this?


It is because ALL the angels questioned God's judgment... not only the ones who are being destroyed. The good angels should have been destroyed just for questioning. God in mercy gave them a second chance by helping to save mankind.

That's why your powerful guardian angel who is invisible to you is protecting you. By attempting to get you to believe in the salvation of Jesus and so be saved, he (your angel) himself is partaking in that same salvation, which he couldn't have otherwise, because Jesus came for mankind, not for the angels.

Look. I am not posting with the idea that I am out to defame you in any way. And I suspect that you are not out to do such to me.

The things that I explain in my posts, mostly are the simple explanations. You don't have to believe me, obviously. But if you are interested in some of it, there are libraries full of books and an Internet that has almost as much. In addition, there are my previous posts, many of which have links in them, or instructions about what to search on to see why I say what I do.

This posting is fun. And it is instructional for all who want to take part. But I am not doing it with the idea of writing a book to explain answers to your questions.

First, God does miracles at times. But it is difficult to say when, because we do not know for sure when the thing that appears to be a miracle, is simply some avenue of nature that we don't understand yet, or when it is God doing a miracle.

More complex things do not develop from less complex things. For example. Simple water converts into a snowflake that is far more complex than the water was. But the forces that act on the water to form it into the snowflake are are far more complex than the water and the snowflake.

Cause and effect proves God because, whatever could "pitch out" all those electrons and energies and whatever else, and form the complexity of today's universe, especially with regard to the complexity of the mind, soul, spirit and reasoning ability of man, must be way more complex than all of it. We see nothing else in nature other than complexity being made by greater complexity. Rather, we see a gradual decay of greater complexity into lesser complexity (entropy).

Whatever it was that could form the complexity that exists, must have been more complex. Something that is more complex than mankind fits the description of what God must be. The further back we can push the beginning - say that we have some new theory that says that the universe is 20 billion-y-o rather than just 13 billion - the greater God must be to have been able to toss out the things that He did to make the complexity that exists now, all made by cause and effect, over great periods of time, especially in the face of all-pervading entropy.


This is because Big Bang Theory doesn't take into account the complexity that we see in the light that there is only cause and effect. Since nothing more complex comes from something less complex, if it was Big Bang that made the complexity that we have now after many years of cause and effect, Big Bang must have been more complex. More complex than the brain and mind and intelligence of man (since man is part of the universe) shouts "God" in the Big Bang.


There is no evidence of anything happening randomly. There is only evidence of complexity so great that we can't follow it without using the random idea. Everything operates by cause and effect... no random whatsoever.

Consider the flip of a coin. Will it come up heads? Or will it come up tails. It seems random. But it is only random to us because we can't measure all the forces on the coin that caused it to come up one way or the other. There is no random.



This is exactly my point. Natural selection happened back at the beginning when everything was set into its "orbit." Natural selection is the selecting done by Whoever programmed the cause and effect to act as it has down through all ages.

The basic trouble with people who understand that God exists - the ones in the churches and religions, I mean - even though they call Him the almighty, they usually don't have the slightest clue as to how immensely powerful He is. You are now smarter than most of the theists in the churches. You have now seen how God cast everything into its cause and effect path, and ages after He did it, the cause and effect is still producing complexity as great as the brain and mind and intelligence of mankind.

I kinda wish I could play pool that well.

Translated:

"I lied"


The only "Jewish Christian" movement I am aware of is "Jews for Jesus".  My mother was part of their movement for a time while I was younger.  I can't recall ever hearing about a tradition of handing down eye witness reports about anything...

There is a strong Jewish Atheist movement... it has been estimated that nearly half of all Jews do not believe in God:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism

It is good for you to hang onto the words of the Bible rather than other explanations. Keep the faith. It is the Bible that holds you in faith.

First let me go back to the beginning. After Adam and Eve sinned, God came to them walking in the Garden. They hid themselves because they were naked. You can read about it in Genesis chapter 3. Specifically for our purposes, verse 8:
God is a Spirit. Spirits don't walk in gardens in the cool of the day. The one aspect of God Who is not only a Spirit only, but is also a man so that He can walk, is Jesus. Jesus was there right in the beginning, already helping people through their sins and mistakes. Read how He helped Adam and Eve, it's in the Bible, in Genesis 3.

Regarding Leviticus, the whole period of the Israel people from the time even before they left Egypt, and throughout the early years in Canaan, Jesus is there... in the form that He has in the beginning chapter(s) of the Revelation. Whenever you see the words "the Angel of the Lord" in the Old Testament, this is talking about Jesus, before He came in His humility - as a child born of Mary. If you see the words, "an angel," or "an angel of the Lord," it probably is not talking about Jesus.

The whole Bible is about Jesus and the things He did to save mankind. In addition, it is written in ways that the reader will get the best advantage out of it... by listening to the stories of real people who lived real lives of trouble, just like all of us.

Do you know why Satan was sent to hell?

Satan accused God of making a poor moral decision.  Satan's movement had a rapid following... quickly, a full 1/3 of all the angels were in support of Satan, opposing God.  God, realizing he was about to lose the majority, silenced the movement by banishing Satan and 1/3 of all the angels to hell.  God did not give Satan a trial, or even a chance to defend himself before being banished for eternity... (reference: Revelation 12:3-12)

Would you call that justice, or good basis for morality?  I call it tyranny!

There are lots of Jewish Christian churches around. There always have been. Look them up in your phone book.

I don't think BADecker meant to annoy you quite that much. I think you probably agree more than you disagree, so you calling him a fool is a bit over the top IMO.

Foolness is blamed all over the Bible especially in the Book of Proverbs which I quoted.

Wisdom is the opposite of foolness and is praised all over the Bible especially in the Book of Proverbs which I quoted.

Foolness and Simplicity often goes together and Simplicity carry beauty most of the times.

"Stupidity is a snake biting when touched."

Only Wisdom leads to Science.

Thomas A.Edison Vs Nikola Tesla.


Best regards.

BitNow and BADecker have a long history of vigorous debate in this thread. Usually about pointless and completely unprovable topics, so their conversation usually just peters out to a quiet and cranky stalemate.

I thought the same thing when I read it... I'm not sure BitNow understands which side he's on? lol

I feel like I should be agreeing with this, but I'm not sure.

Yes, you are. A reminder, since you cut it from the conversation above:






I only post questions which you can't answer. If one can't teach, explain a point or at the very least discuss a topic without getting confused and changing the subject, then one shouldn't place ones self in the role of a pedagogue.



You have posted a simple baseless lie here. OTOH I haven't lied about anything - I have simply asked you for proof for your assertions.

In fact, I always ask you for proof of your assertions and I rarely post anything else in this thread. So far, when I do, you have simply changed the subject, made up nonsense, or resorted to name calling.

First off, cause and effect disproves God until you find an effect that had no natural cause... that would kinda prove that something supernatural exists, but its never happened... unless you believe those fake "ghost hunter" shows on tv, in which case you are seriously gullible...

There is nothing about the big bang theory that would suggest complexity, intelligent design, or any such origin...



I see your misunderstanding after reading your post...

You think evolution = random chance?

Evolution is the opposite of random chance... it does have a random component, yes.  Mutations are random, but the selection is far from random... natural selection and survival of the fittest are the primary methods of evolution...

The effects of natural selection can be observed nearly everywhere on the planet.  Predatory animals have evolved different adaptations than prey animals.  Their eyes are in different locations on the face.  Prey animals tend to camouflage, whereas predators have less need of this particular adaptation.

Evolution can be seen and charted with things like the flu virus.  You can literally watch it change as the years go by...

Many bacteria are evolving to become immune to the antibiotics we use to fight them.  This has led to doctors prescribing antibiotics less often, etc...

You have to be blind to not see evidence of evolution everywhere you look!

1. You are not Wise
2. You are simple and idiot
3. You will continue to be simple and idiot if you won't change.

What's the effect of this?!?

Can we keep Wisdom (and maybe Simplicity) and throwing Stupidity?

"Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly."
- Pro 13:16

Best regards.

Much (maybe most) of the New Testament is eye-witness reports. The validity comes about because of the fact that it exists as it does, being backed by people who hang onto tradition (Christians of Israelite ancestry) more than they hold onto life itself. Their tradition is that the New Testament is truth.

Just for you, friend. I'll say it again, and I have said it many times before. But you will have to think about it a little.

There are 3 points that prove the existence of God. There may be more. But these 3 will do it.
1. Cause and effect, which is really an expansion on Newton's 3rd Law.
2. Complex universe.
3. Universal entropy.


Cause and effect almost proves God all by itself. Consider that everything operates by cause and effect. Nothing that exists or acts, exists or acts except that something causes it to exist or act. This is basic, foundational science. And it is a law - Newton's 3rd - because it is evident all over the place in everything, and there has been nothing found that refutes it (although there are some guesses and theories that might refute it).

In other words, things happen because something made them happen, and we see nothing that started things happening in the first place.

How great universal cause and effect is, can be shown by the example of the pool/billiards professional. The pool professional announces what his shot is going to be, and the pocket the ball is going to toll into. Then he takes his shot. He hits the cue ball, which hits a second ball, which hits a third ball, which hits a fourth ball, which knocks the fifth ball into the prescribed pocket. This professional is quite good.

Whatever caused the universe, bumped untold numbers of electrons, and all kinds of other particles, and all kinds of energies, so that they bumped other electrons and things and energies, some 13 billion years ago (if scientists are near correct), which cause 13 billions of years of countless countless cause and effect reactions, that resulted in the complexity of mankind, and the complexity of the rest of the universe.

A good pool shark might be able to do the 5-ball thing now and again. If it was the Big Bang that started the universe, the Big Bang was so extremely smart that it made great complexity, including mankind and his mind - and spirit and soul if you believe in those things - after what seem to be 13 billion years of seemingly random cause and effect actions (which absolutely could not be random to make the complexity). If they were random, prehistoric man would have made jet planes long ago, and modern living would be a whole lot different.

Think of it. Think of all the photons that were caused, and all the activities they caused by their actions. And we are only talking about the simple universe that we know exists through astronomy. What about all the dimensional activity that we barely know anything about? All of it operating through cause and effect set off by whatever started everything going some 13 billion years ago (if you want to believe the accuracy of the accepted age of the earth).

This whole thing was pre-programmed! We see nothing other than cause and effect making things happen. And now, after 13 billion years, that cause and effect makes gigantic complexity. Whatever makes this complexity, must be even more complex... must have super-complex mind and spirit and intelligence to do things so far beyond what a pool shark could do.

When you add the fact of universal entropy (as far as we can see, and without being able to see anything opposite of entropy), Whatever the Thing was that started all this, doesn't seem to be doing much in a great way right now. Cause and effect suggests that it all was stated way back in the beginning.

The thing that started everything going in the pre-programmed fashion that it exists in, fits our definition of the word "God." In fact, our word "God" is way too limited to comprehend what the Being must be like. Yes, Being. Because He/It made us beings, and therefore had to be at least a being to comprehend what we would be like today, from the vantage point of 13 billion years ago.

Think about this, because my little writing here in no way does God justice. Volumes could be written expressing what I have said here. And it is all withing the realm of our scientific understanding.

Validity of the new testament is attested by tradition and eye reports? I mean you're joking right?

You've said a lot of things but still haven't seen any concrete proof. You've said that you've proven something but I've only seen words. Show us the proof man. God exists because God exists is not proof. It's just you saying "God exists".
And I say "Star Wars exists and it's great!".