Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 27. (Read 901370 times)

Science has found cause and effect. If, as the standard understanding of science is, there is no spirit or soul, then all things that we attribute to spirit and soul, are simply bio-electrical (or other) impulses that operate via C&E. All electrical impulses follow exact physical laws. Everything is programmed from the beginning... programming called cause and effect. No free will. Only programming.

But the scientists who think this way, still feel that they have free will to some extent. So, is the feeling of free will, really free will? Or is it artificial free will via C&E? If it is artificial free will, and there is nothing scientific that shows real free will, how do we know that we have free will, scientifically speaking?

The atheist who is a science buff, doesn't know that he has free will. He knows that he feels free will. But he doesn't know if it is artificial or real. He can only suggest artificial, because C&E is proven, but spontaneity hasn't been proven. To the atheist, everything is programmed, except that he guesses that there might be true free will that we don't know about.

The theist understands that there is free will, because God tells him that there is free will. But where does the free will lie? Just because a theist knows that he has free will, doesn't remove him from C&E programming, which programming says that free will is artificial.

From a theistic standpoint, we have free will. But our free will isn't what we think it is. We use artificial free will in our daily operations in lives, just like the atheists. We also use real free will daily (just like the atheists who don't know it), but we don't really know how we use it. It is a complete mystery. But we feel and use our artificial free will all the time.

Frankly, I am struggling to follow the rationale too lol

For what it is worth, I believe in free will. I don't know if BADecker is for or against the idea that we have free will, but I assume he is for because he believes in God.

There is no way God would create humans with no free will, that would be self-defeating.

No, I don't.

Well, isn't that what you claim? Aren't some of the world's greatest thinkers racing with all their strength to find something spontaneous, just so they can study it? And aren't they doing it because they fear that Whoever or Whatever controls C&E just might take their artificial free will away from them... and they want to be ready with free-will/spontaneity so they can fight to keep their free will, artificial though it may be?

Do you even understand what I am telling you?

You guys claim that the world is non-deterministic and deterministic.

What are you saying? That there isn't any free will? If you think that way, why do you even waste time posting in the forum? Are you forced to post?

Everybody can see that there is conflict in science all over the place. Einstein didn't accept quantum physics. All kinds of scientists date the age of evolution critters all over the place. Science is full of conflict.

Why do you think that free will can't be a subject of scientific inquiry? DuckDuckGo search on "the science of free will." But if you think that scientists are wrong to consider free will in their investigations, then you have more scientific conflict.

Why does God have to submit to C&E rules? The whole creation shows that God is outside of the universe to have created it. Why do you think that things outside the universe must follow universe rules?

Finally you have hit on something that is correct. But you throw it out like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

The problem isn't some line of religious thinking. The problem is that you don't even realize that your thinking is simply another line of religious thinking.

Of course he doesn't, he mentions cause and effect to debunk evolution but at the same time says people have free will when it comes to god, he doesn't even understand the contradiction, peanut brain.

The concept of free will is a religious invention to explain why God created evil or is allowing evil to exist.

There is no conflict in science.  The scientific method works by establishing causalities.  Free will cannot be a subject of a scientific inquiry.

I just pointed out that you have an issue with free will and C&E (which you attempted to prove God, by excusing God from C&E rules).

Religions (with the notion of free will) basically say that the world is non-deterministic, i.e. causes and effects do not exist.  To reconcile with reality (where we clearly observe causalities) religions says that everything is caused by God.

The religious world view is non-deterministic and deterministic at the same time.  That is one of the reasons why I think religions are basically mass, incoherent delusions.

If you don't see the problem with this line of religious thinking then I cannot help you.

Science has a conflict. Science says that cause and effect rules. They prove it by not being able to find anything that is truly spontaneous. But they also don't like the idea that they don't have free will. So, what is it?

Science has found countless trillions of things that work by cause and effect = determined will. When are they going to find something that is truly spontaneous so that they can suggest that we might have free will after all?

I belive that you are not an atheist because for all i know is ‘they dont hate God or religion’(since religion are the believers of God)instead they don’t only believe the God existence
I know few people whos claiming to be atheist wayback in college and this is their stand,i dont know why you are saying thered a ‘hate’when i guess there are still respects that existing in them.

Either you have a C&E or a free will.  You cannot have both.

Your world view has a conflict.  The universe is either deterministic or non-deterministic.  Not both.

Scientific ignorance shows that we don't have free will.

Get your story straight.

So we don't have free will. 

Get your story straight.

But that wasn't the point. The point was that your thoughts aren't your own, wherever they come from. You simply like to bring God/god into things, and then suggest that I was suggesting God.

Use your head for something besides a hair-rack, for once. Cause and effect dictate how things work. This is the best that science has for brain and mind. If science is incorrect in this, show it. What have we found that is truly spontaneous? If we haven't found anything truly spontaneous, then it all operates by C&E. Or do you like guessing?

Of course, if you are balled, you wouldn't be using your head for a hair-rack. Or do you wear a wig?

No worries dude, it makes great toilet paper....

''inducing'' thoughts by stimulating a brain doesn't mean the thoughts are from a god or another being, that's not even close of being evidence of that mate.

Quite the opposite in my opinion.

I control my mind, rather than let my mind control me.

Actually, there is. For decades, now, doctors who opened up a person's skull, and sent a little jolt of electricity through sections of the brain, induced thoughts in a patient that weren't exactly his. In similar way all of cause and effect induces thoughts in all of us.

The question should be, Are any of my thoughts mine?

''but enough to realize that not all thoughts are my own.'' Again, you might think you realize those thoughts are not your own but how do you know? Is there a way to prove it or test it? Of course not, it's just your brain, as usual. That's why mentally ill people think they can fly or someone is telling them things.

LOL.  I would get diarrhea.  Cellulose is hard to digest.