Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 383. (Read 901367 times)

There is nothing to fear in death either way. If you assert that there's another life after this one, to remain logically consistent you must also accept the assertion that there is a third life after the next one, and a fourth life after that one, and so on ad infinatum. An afterlife is utterly meaningless without an after-afterlife.

So for the sake of argument let's accept the wild premise that there is another life after this one. If that life is mostly pleasurable, great, you stick around and enjoy it. Should that life prove to be more painful than pleasurable, you can simply use suicide to skip it and move on to the next life in the chain.

So as I've said before, there's nothing to fear in death - only suffering is worth fearing. We're in control, always, thanks to our ever-present ability to "opt out" of any life we don't like via suicide.

But religious people believe in some sort of afterlife, whether it be reincarnation or heaven, etc. And atheists believe that there's nothing after death. So in every case, there's nothing to be afraid of.

Unless atheists are afraid there is an afterlife they don't know about....

Since nobody actually knows what happens when we die, it's the unknown I guess.

Why would anyone fear death?

It's a recent event because the universe is a recent event. We have a young earth and a young universe.

Jesus is God right along with His Father and the Holy spirit. He was there at the beginning of our young universe, a recent event.

It was Jesus Who walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden after they sinned. The promise of salvation was expressed the first time, then. However, the promise existed right from the beginning, because Jesus is God and existed right from the beginning. God, Himself, trusted in His own promise that He made to Himself.

Then, throughout the Old Testament, we hear about angels. But we also hear about a special angel... the angel of the Lord. When you see in the O.T. the term "the angel of the Lord," you are looking at Jesus.

Time to do your studies if you are really interested.

That's great. If I was pointing at your personal claims, I shouldn't have been, and didn't really mean to be.


True about the Big Bang not being scientific method. Is it science? The line between what some people call science, and whatever else they might call it, can be very hazy at times. The point wasn't to focus on the Big Bang. The point was to focus on the fiction side of science.


This is not an easy subject. First, the scientific fact that God exists as explained by three of the fundamental laws of science, doesn't have anything to do with any of the religions on earth. At least not from the scientific standpoint.

The three chunks of scientific law are:
1. Cause and effect (action and reaction);
2. Complex universe;
3. Entropy throughout the universe.
I am not going to make a big thing out of this. I am not going to go and dig up all kinds of scientific teaching that shows links to it or other reference. I will simply explain it somewhat. My wording may not be the best, but you will get the idea. Once you have the idea, if you want to prove or disprove it to yourself, start researching.

Entropy is all-pervading. Everything slows down, wears out, falls apart, oxidizes, dies, etc.  Everything that is new and fresh becomes that way at the expense of something else wearing out. We see nothing in the universe that explains for a fact, the reverse of entropy... how things could exist without entropy having turned them to dust long ago.

There is great complexity in the universe. Perhaps the mind of mankind is the greatest complexity of the universe. Perhaps it is man's brain. Whatever is greatest, these or something else, the facts of our thinking, our emotions, our consciousness, our personal identity... the facts that these exist show fantastically great complexity in the universe.

Everything that we know of operates by cause and effect, action and reaction. Newton even made it into his Third Law. Because of this, from a pure science standpoint, everything in all the complexity, all our thinking and free will, has been caused by something causing it all to happen. Essentially, we don't have any free will. The thing that we call free will is a product of countless chemical and bio-electric actions and reactions in our bodies, and from without. If there is something outside of action and reaction (cause and effect), science has not found it. The very interesting point about cause and effect is that there is no pure random. The thing that we call "random" is simply our inability to see the multitudes of causes behind something. Everything that we know operates by cause and effect.

Cause and effect over the thousands of years has maintained a tremendous amount of complexity in things in the face of entropy. This shows us the fact that the mind of mankind was far more able in the past before entropy had the time to tear down its abilities. Another thing this shows is that everything in the whole universe is "pre-programmed," by Whatever started cause and effect. Cause and effect must have had a start. Otherwise entropy would have neutralized everything by now.

A person who is a billiards/pool player is good if he can, knowingly, set a string of five balls into action, the fifth going into a predetermined pocket. He taps the first ball, which hits the second, which knocks the third, which rolls into the fourth, which bumps the fifth into the pocket. Consider how great the Great First Cause must have been to have started all the cause-and-effect actions that continue to maintain this great amount of universal complexity in the face of all-pervading entropy.

Because the mind and brain of man are as complex as they are, the mind of the Great First Cause must be complex beyond understanding. Why? Because greater does not come from lesser. Entropy keeps it from happening. The complexity of the Great First Cause makes It fit the dictionary definition of the word "God."

Not only does God exist, but also, God is so extremely great beyond us that we are essentially less than nothing when compared with God.


Because of our remoteness, because of our inability to see the complexity in cause and effect, we use probability. Christianity is the religion of choice because of the odds it has overcome to be the religion that it is.

In the way that Christianity came into existence, the nation of Israel, their activities, the way they made the Bible record, the prophesies that exist, have been fulfilled, and are being fulfilled, the fact that the true Hebrew Bible has changed little over the ages even though it was copied by many scribes over and over, the numbers of ancient copies and fragments, and a lot more things, show that the Christian religion as it stands today couldn't exist. Since it couldn't exist, yet it is here, shows that there is more to it than simply something mankind could do. The Christian religion is a God production.

Do your own research into it.



Not everything about science is fictional. God made science - combinations of complex actions and reactions, some of which we can see, other of which we can't see. But the scientific theories are fictions as far as we know. Until such a time that we prove them to be fact, they are fiction... and they stand right alongside science fact, so that often we do not know where the division lies.

simple, people had no access to paradise. 
 I believe that the fear of death (everyone has it) is able to convince us of nonsense very large, such as religion

I like where you are going with this. The truth does not condemn you to rot in hell if you do not worship it. Humans are weird when it comes to many aspects of our lives. Sometimes it is very tiring to live among most people on Earth. True statement: "we don't know"; Delusional statement: "it was God". You get to decide on which side you want to be on.

Since someone mentioned it, I am also in favor of Buddhism.

Before Jesus came, all Christians would have been Jewish... there's an interesting piece on Judaism belief here.

What did the humans do before he was born then?
His birth was a very recent event in the scheme of things remember.

I'm not claiming that any theory is fact, but the theory you're talking about (the big bang) doesn't use the scientific method, as it can't be observed.  But if you track the speed and direction of matter in space, it is moving outwards from a single point.  If you care to understand why they think that, you should watch the Cosmos series by Neil Degrasse Tyson, or a Universe From Nothing by Lawrence Krauss.  Anyways, it remains a theory and it aligns with observable evidence today, but it's not fact.

How are you coming up with the "fact" that God exist?  What are the facts?
And if we are going to be religious, why is Christianity the religion of choice?  Does it have something to do with being raised Christian?  Have you taken as deep a look into other religions and consciously made a decision?  Is your current perspective one that has been conditioned?  I'm not trying to be offensive, but I'm asking rhetorically for you to think about it.  There is a VERY high correlation of people selecting the religion that is dominant in their childhood environment.  Meaning, if you were born in Indonesia, would Jesus still be your God?  No, it wouldn't.  You'd be conditioned to be Muslim, unless you lived in Bali, and then you'd be Hindu.

How is science fictional?  When you get sick, do you go to a doctor or do you pray to God?  You use all the technology that has been discovered by scientists, even the fact that you and I can communicate over electrical signals shows where science is at.  Science sends rockets into orbit dude...how is it fictional if it works?

I'm female....I'm not sure why you felt the need to use a pronoun as if you were talking to someone else, to respond to me.

I know you'll believe whatever you want to believe, but we, humans, are not god. You can only get to heaven through Jesus Christ.

You can't act like you agree with what I say, saying I'm "speaking honestly", and then go on to act as if I said something blasphemous.

This one speaks honestly. His anecdote is totally congruent with the findings of the sciences (neurology & psychology) related to religious thought.

The believer IS god. Your relationship with god is in reality a profound dynamic relationship with the self. Your ego. This is why god can seem so very REAL to you, because he IS real, God IS you!


Christianity is based on a false-dichotomy:



Belief is not a choice. It's a compulsion beyond the realm of choice, based on observation/evidence; in science argument and consensus.

Desirability is not a requisite of the truth. I do not choose what I believe because I perceive it as the more attraction option. I'm compelled to believe what I think is true, whether I like it or not!

The truth does not require your approval. It simply is.

Tolerant:

Believing that others will go to hell, has nothing to do with tolerance. I tolerate all the murderers and criminals in the world. I don't like that people do those things, but I forgive them. We're told to forgive those who do harm to us. That's very tolerant.

I see you ignored my last post.

Christians should be very empathic and compassionate.

However, the scientific method is not all there is to science. There are all kinds of definitions of science all over the place that go way beyond the scientific method.

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First, there is theory. Theory is built right into the scientific method. Theory is not fact.

Second, there is a lot of theory that has been around for a long time, yet it can't really be proven. For example, even though Big Bang Theory has been around for decades, there might not be any way to prove it without a literal time-dimension time-viewer. Yet, it is treated as fact by people from all walks of life, both high and low.

Third, the other side is this. When you put cause and effect together with our complex universe, in the face of entropy - all scientifically proven laws and facts - you come up with the fact that God exists. You won't have any details about God to speak of. All that you have are the facts that He is super intelligent, and extremely powerful. Try it... putting those 3 things together in a scientific way to see what I mean. It may take a bit of work if you are not familiar with them:
1. cause and effect;
2. complex universe;
3. universal entropy.

The point is, the thing that is called science is way more fictional than the idea that God exists. When people believe something fictional as being the truth, especially when it has as far-reaching effects as science does, they have themselves a religion. Science is a religion, even more than believing in God.

Aren't there parts of the bible that reference going to hell if not for believing in Jesus?  I am paraphrasing, but let me know if I am referencing something incorrectly.  Otherwise, that doesn't sound tolerant to me.

By what you say about Christians, there should be no Christian murderers, serial killers, rapists, or criminals in general.  But there are, and there are shitloads of them.

All humans require to be positive to society around them is empathy and compassion.  As soon as empathy and compassion are gone, the moral landscape can get very flawed to the point where it harms others without feedback of sadness or guilt.

Are you saying science keeps people in ignorance?  The scientific method requires empirical evidence and doesn't accept opinion that is not observable.  I don't think that keeps anyone ignorant of things that have yet to be discovered.  It also welcomes testing and questioning and doesn't involve any taboo.

Most people don't have a very good understanding of science, so I don't think it has much to do with the average person's belief system.  The majority of religious folks were indoctrinated from a young age and then there's a minority that has chosen a religion later in life without being heavily conditioned into it.

I'd say the greatest threat to religion is the internet and access to information.  Just access to something outside of localized knowledge is detrimental to religious belief.  How many kids do you know that were explained all religions and given the choice of what to believe?

Religion is fine as long as there is tolerance, but with the amount of religious conflict in the world, you can see that it segregates humanity into teams, and at times that conflict results in death and war.  Imagine two strangers with different belief systems trying to kill each other, and thinking "if only the rest of society wasn't ignorant like me".

Not only that, but Buddhism asserts a hypothesis, and prescribes a specific method -- which is both testable and replicable -- to explore that hypothesis.

I appreciate those who act kindly to others, no matter if they believe in any god or not. Christianity is about tolerance, and being kind and peaceful.

One thing in Christianity is that there are evil spirits trying to hurt people constantly. Followers of Jesus have His authority to drive them out in His name, but don't know it, for the most part. So they are free to mess with people. And if you were an evil spirit, you could see the ones that they would want to harass, would be Christians, to hurt them for following Jesus and trying to do right. Which then leads to the most sinful people being Christians, because they don't know what power they have to stop it, most don't even believe in evil spirits anymore (even though it's so clear in the bible), so they let it go on, sin, and make Christians as a whole look bad.