Topic: Why do you believe God exists? - page 22. (Read 7902 times)

There is plenty of evidence of simple living beings evolving to really complex animals, they didn't need a creator.

There is no evidence of anything magically appearing in this world, Look at buildings, cars and the aeroplanes,  they were all made and it shows that everything has a creator so that means that Human Being who has made all these things must also have a creator,  it's just logical.

{quote]af_newbie]"The question of God existence or non-existence is not even a scientific question."
it is most certainly a scientific question; just because you cant use your scientific method dont mean you cant use another.
{quote]af_newbie]"We are all born into one religion or other.  Very few people alive today were born in Atheist families.

This, of course, will change in the future as more and more people lose faith in the supernatural."

very few people were born in atheist families because atheists create fewer babes; see where this would go? maybe an endless cycle, but not change without some new thing to change peoples minds on a massive scale.

people see the same evidence, and take it as evidence for different beliefs; people see evidence and dont even see the same evidence.
we always see everything through the lens of our own worldviews. we use worldviews to interpret what we see. so,, iwas taught creationist
sphell, and so take everything ive learned with this lens. the existance of God is a scientific fact. standard geology is error, big bang cosmology is error, plate tectonics is error, bacteria evolving into hyenas and snakes evolving into birds is error; i wont say darwinism is error, as i love to look at insects and other creatures and think about how they evolved/adapted;(survival of the fittest can be a useful theory, but maybe i misuse darwinism in this writing.)  i like to think of my philosophy as darwinistic, i think of myself as a darwinist, but maybe im delusional.

{qoute]af_newbie]"As for the God of the Gaps, well, we do have unknowns, let's leave them unknowns until they become known."

we need to assume something is true, because we will never have infinite knowledge. have to assume something, then you can build everything else on top of that.

You can't. That's why I cannot disprove your nihilistic materialism.

The only thing you can do is invite people to consider another perspective.

C.S. Lewis does this well as I highlighted earlier.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.46859248

How can you prove or disprove faith?  People believe what they believe.  

we need to assume something is true, because we will never have infinite knowledge. have to assume something, then you can build everything else on top of that.

Just one final point for clarity sake.

If cannot disprove a pantheistic God then you also also cannot disprove a faith centered on the worship of such an entity.

The most you can do is demonstrate that a particular religion's understanding must be incomplete or lacking using whatever logical inconsistencies you identify in their texts.

I agree that the question of God existence or non-existence is not a scientific question. Science alone is only a tool and too narrow a framework to fully evaluate the universe and our place within it.

So I can prove to you that the "Gods" of all major religions do not exist, however, I cannot prove to you that some pantheistic God does not exist.

The question of God existence or non-existence is not even a scientific question.

The exuberant irrationality of religion is poignantly manifested in as much as this idea and all it entails, being amongst other things, grandiose, almighty, omnipresent etc., can take preference over, exceed and outdo the full qualitative value and meaning of having someone tangible right in front of you, a fellow human being with all manner of interactions to your avail - completely and utterly startling.

I think dippididodaday inadvertently makes a good case for why you are incorrect about this point af_newbie. I disagree with him only where he describes the phenomenon as irrational as noted in the quote.  He captures well the shear power of religion.

It's not something that is entirely dependent on parent to child  transmission or social networks those those certainly play a role in transmitting and sustaining it.


Many would disagree with you. They would point to the natural world or written tradition as evidence. You would likely challenge that evidence with materialism and a dismissal of the historical accounts as fantasy.

At a minimum, however, if you are logical you must concede the following. We have no evidence God does not exist.

The exuberant irrationality of religion is poignantly manifested in as much as this idea and all it entails, being amongst other things, grandiose, almighty, omnipresent etc., can take preference over, exceed and outdo the full qualitative value and meaning of having someone tangible right in front of you, a fellow human being with all manner of interactions to your avail - completely and utterly startling.

We have no evidence that any God (of any kind) exists

...
Today, people just know better.  Religions exist today only because our parents force us to believe in them at a risk of losing relationships with our family and friends.

There is certainly reason to believe that historically many religions were often formed twisted and warped little more then gross political tools. Nothing has the power to cement control like a bad religion.

I read a study a while back that highlighted  the fact that pagan priests and rulers who sanctioned human sacrifice may have had such motives. The analysis of more than seven dozen Austronesian cultures revealed that the practice of human sacrifices tended to make societies increasingly less egalitarian and eventually gave rise to strict, inherited class systems. The ritual killings helped keep the powerful in power and everyone else in check. I discussed this more here: Pagans and Human Sacrifice.

But is this the entire story or is this simply a manifestation of the human capacity to twist, lie, manipulate and corrupt for power. Are all religious velvet gloves hiding the iron fist of tyranny underneath or is there is something deeper to some of them?

To help make that determination we need to look at religions with a critical eye understanding the historical landscape in which they arose.

The more religions act like political systems favoring control of the powerful over the meek the more suspect we should be. When a religion does the opposite of that when it facilitates the rise of freedom or favors the powerless over the powerful we have something of a conundrum. How could such a belief survive and form when it opposes the powerful? Such inconsistencies warrant further evaluation.

For what it's worth I am firmly in the camp that there is something fundamental and deep in at least some religions.

A more sane explanation is that Quran was hastily assembled into a book by some military leaders who saw disorder among the ranks.
These guys plagiarized the Bible (which in turn was plagiarized from the Egyptian texts) and added few mistakes of their own in the process.

What I mean above is behavior in the world

Because the situation in heaven is not like this world. The nature of this world for believers is the test and the field to get supplies until the afterlife. Allah SWT decreases so many rules that are obligatory or prohibited. Whoever carries out obligations and leaves haram, will get the pleasure of Allah SWT and be put into His heaven.

Whereas in heaven, it can be said that there are no more rules or shari'ah to do. All become permitted for believers. Something that is forbidden in this world is permissible. Including drinking khamar as you mentioned. Even khamar is available free in heaven on a flowing river.

What I mean above is behavior in the world

Because the situation in heaven is not like this world. The nature of this world for believers is the test and the field to get supplies until the afterlife. Allah SWT decreases so many rules that are obligatory or prohibited. Whoever carries out obligations and leaves haram, will get the pleasure of Allah SWT and be put into His heaven.

Whereas in heaven, it can be said that there are no more rules or shari'ah to do. All become permitted for believers. Something that is forbidden in this world is permissible. Including drinking khamar as you mentioned. Even khamar is available free in heaven on a flowing river.

Exactly.  The wild yeast living on grapes skin was supposedly put there by Allah, the maker of all things. LOL

Looks like Allah was confused about his own creations (or the writers of Quran did not know exactly what makes grapes turn into wine and settled on the "work of Satan" as the "answer")

A more sane explanation is that Quran was hastily assembled into a book by some military leaders who saw disorder among the ranks.
These guys plagiarized the Bible (which in turn was plagiarized from the Egyptian texts) and added few mistakes of their own in the process.