Topic: Why do you believe God exists? - page 20. (Read 7969 times)

The exuberant irrationality of religion is poignantly manifested in as much as this idea and all it entails, being amongst other things, grandiose, almighty, omnipresent etc., can take preference over, exceed and outdo the full qualitative value and meaning of having someone tangible right in front of you, a fellow human being with all manner of interactions to your avail - completely and utterly startling.

There is certainly reason to believe that historically many religions were often formed twisted and warped little more then gross political tools. Nothing has the power to cement control like a bad religion.

I read a study a while back that highlighted  the fact that pagan priests and rulers who sanctioned human sacrifice may have had such motives. The analysis of more than seven dozen Austronesian cultures revealed that the practice of human sacrifices tended to make societies increasingly less egalitarian and eventually gave rise to strict, inherited class systems. The ritual killings helped keep the powerful in power and everyone else in check. I discussed this more here: Pagans and Human Sacrifice.

But is this the entire story or is this simply a manifestation of the human capacity to twist, lie, manipulate and corrupt for power. Are all religious velvet gloves hiding the iron fist of tyranny underneath or is there is something deeper to some of them?

To help make that determination we need to look at religions with a critical eye understanding the historical landscape in which they arose.

The more religions act like political systems favoring control of the powerful over the meek the more suspect we should be. When a religion does the opposite of that when it facilitates the rise of freedom or favors the powerless over the powerful we have something of a conundrum. How could such a belief survive and form when it opposes the powerful? Such inconsistencies warrant further evaluation.

For what it's worth I am firmly in the camp that there is something fundamental and deep in at least some religions.

So, the question becomes, is it the doing? Or is it faith?

For example. If bad people kidnap a child of some rich parents, why does a police officer rescue the child? Does he do it because he feels sorry for the child? Does he do it because it is his duty? Does he do it for the reward the rich parents offer?

The point is, it isn't the doing that God recognizes as much as the reason for doing it. Why? Because God looks at everything; He looks at the hearts of people. God doesn't need people to rescue kids. He can do it Himself. But He has made this world, as you say, partially as a testing ground for people. So He lets people do what they do as a test on all of the people invloved. But He looks at the hearts/faith of people in the things that they do.

This means that the heavenly position (or the Hell position for those who don't make it to Heaven) is based on faith rather than works. The works are simply the result of faith (except in accidents).

So, what is the proper faith to have, since that is what counts? What do we have faith in? How does it work, this having faith idea or goal?

What I mean above is behavior in the world

Because the situation in heaven is not like this world. The nature of this world for believers is the test and the field to get supplies until the afterlife. Allah SWT decreases so many rules that are obligatory or prohibited. Whoever carries out obligations and leaves haram, will get the pleasure of Allah SWT and be put into His heaven.

Whereas in heaven, it can be said that there are no more rules or shari'ah to do. All become permitted for believers. Something that is forbidden in this world is permissible. Including drinking khamar as you mentioned. Even khamar is available free in heaven on a flowing river.

Set a bowl of fresh-pressed grape juice out on the table for a few hours in a warm climate, and the grape starts to turn into wine all by itself.

Find some grapes on a vine, where the grapes are over-ripe and have started to shrivel. Eat one of them and you will taste the fermentation right in the grape.

Say it right out straight, if grapes are off limits to Muslims. But if they aren't, they will ferment right in your stomach after you eat them. You can't get away from wine if you eat grapes.

Don't take it too literally. The problems with religions happen when people treat them dogmatically, especially their adherents.
Religions are a lossy data stream from the past, like a humankind-wide dream you can't quite remember.
But it's still data. It's tells us something.

Allah ta'ala says,
أيود أحدكم أن تكون له جنة من نخيل وأعناب تجري من تحتها الأنهار له فيها من كل الثمرات وأصابه الكبر وله ذرية ضعفاء فأصابها إعصار فيه نار فاحترقت كذلك يبين الله لكم الآيات لعلكم تتفكرون
"Is there one of you who wants to have a date and wine garden that flows beneath the rivers; he had in the garden all kinds of fruits, then the old age came to that person while he had young children. Then the garden was blown by a strong wind which contained fire, then it burned. Thus Allah explained His verses to you so that you might think about them. "(Surat al-Baqarah: 266)   
Actually it is not the grapes that obey the devil's work. But the making of the grapes that make alcohol and the devil's works are the ones who drink alcohol.

In Islam Allah forbids drunks like drinking alcohol.
   
this is what you really say

Science works. But if the scientists knew why and how, they would have stopped being scientists long ago, for lack of anything else to discover. So, scientists actually know very little, considering how big the universe is, and how little they can actually do to change it.

This is why many scientists are turning to God, even though many of them call Him Intelligent Design(er) rather than God.

 it is true that I am a Muslim therefore I believe that God really exists. You also have the right to say above acting like drinking alcohol is a bad thing like hunting down a demon

So here I do not distinguish between your respective religions.

Dawkins actually sacrificed himself to Richard to save us all. All hail the true God. I'm so tired of people quoting the bible, they don't even realize how stupid it is.
[/quote]
Know O intelligent people, actually Rob you who created you from the beginning did not exist and have educated you with His favors are (Allah) Rob of the universe. And the people of their understanding believe in the Most High [[2]], they do not see Him with their eyes, but they have seen evidence that shows His existence, and that He is the Creator Who Takes Care of all there are, they know him with the evidence.

Dawkins actually sacrificed himself to Richard to save us all. All hail the true God. I'm so tired of people quoting the bible, they don't even realize how stupid it is.

I will give a little Christian biblical verse that God exists
 1:27 Only let your life be in accordance with the gospel of Christ, so that when I come I see, and when I do not come I hear, that you stand firm in one spirit, and one soul striving for faith that arises from the News The gospel.


 this is the 2nd verse of the Christian Bible, Jesus said:

One offspring goes and another comes, but the earth remains. e 1: 5 The sun rises 14, the sun sets, then rushes to the place where it rises again. 1: 6 The wind blows to the south, then turns to the north, it constantly turns, and in its turn the wind returns. 1: 7 All rivers flow into the sea, but the sea is not full; where the river flows, where the river flows always. 1: 8 All things are tedious, so they are not spoken by men; the eyes are not full to see, the ears are not satisfied to hear. 1: 9 What was there will be again, and what has been made will be made again; i have nothing new under the sun 15. 1:10 Is there anything that can be said: "Look, this is new!" But it was there first, long before we were there.

Of course, nobody knows that the universe isn't that big. After all, when light has to travel from that far away for it to be visible, we wouldn't have instruments sensitive to register such light. In addition, dark matter might get in the way of the light that is coming from out there so that it simply doesn't get here. Standard astrophysics understands this. They simply talk about it so little that you have to dig to find it.

Assuming you meant "hear" not "here"

Nothing... everything science believes to exist can be seen with your eye, a tool like a microscope, or it can be seen by the way it effects other objects around it (like the wind)

If it can't be seen or measured in some way (i.e., it makes no observable effect on anything), then it doesn't exist


You had me at "trillions of light years"... I'd recommend studying astrophysics... the observable universe is not nearly that big

Please do some research before pulling shit out of your ass... please

Even though we cannot see sickness,it does not mean that there is no pain.so is God.because we cannot see God,it does not mean that God does not exist.God is there.Even though we can’t see him,we can’t see him.
How many things can’t humans see or here,but in reality they exists?
How many heavenly objects are far billions,maybe even trillions of light years that humans have never seen,but they actually exists?
Therefore i truly belive that God exists.

Is there really?  Could you provide a link to a source for such evidence?

I have searched the internet, and no legitimate (scientific) evidence for any god(s) exists

No gods, ghosts, angels or demons have ever disrupted a scientific experiment... it's literally never happened... not even once

Sorry, not sorry

https://www.csicop.org/si/show/twenty-one_reasons_noahs_worldwide_flood_never_happened
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Global_flood
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8883

Again, scientifically proven to be totally false.

Indeed, one would be hard pressed to test your belief that there is no scientific proof for God. If your belief could be tested, you would have changed your belief long ago, to one that scientifically proves that God exists.

As for science proving the Great Flood of Noah's day to be false, just the opposite is true. And regarding the ark, originally the big ships of many present day nations were patterned after the basic ark pattern, because that was simpler than trying to invent something that would float properly.

Much of what is said in the Bible is there to be believed. But some of it has been proven to exist... just to show that the rest of the Bible is factual as well. So faith is built on fact and proof, both in the Bible, as well as the science religion.

No it's not my ''belief''. A belief cannot be tested, measuring the age of the earth or the universe can be tested with several different methods and they all sync and give accurate results. The flood can be scientifically proven to be false just, the ark, etc etc. Those are not beliefs. You have beliefs. You believe everything that is said in the bible is true although you have no evidence and you certainly have no test to prove god.