Topic: Why do you believe God exists? - page 5. (Read 7963 times)

God rejected him, in any case. If god wanted us to know about his existence, he would know exactly what to do to show us. And no, this wouldn't take away my free will, he wouldn't need to force me, just show me enough proof. Logically god makes no sense in any way you can think about it.

Every society follows some kind of moral code.

Sometimes that code can be as simple as the strongest rule and the weak are slaves.  Usually it's more complex.

Democratic rule does not prevent tyranny it is not exempt from injustice and immorally. Review the history of Athens if you want to understand this better.

Tyranny of the majority was one of the greatest concerns of the US founding fathers. It the reasons they took such great effort to limit the power of direct democracy. Everything from the selection of Senators by state representatives, the selection of the president via the Electoral College, and the limits of voting to land owners were all attempts to lower the risk of a tyrannical mob rule.

Your stated standard is "you are automatically a good person if you are following the moral code that your society accepts." This is a very problematic code that highlights the profound detachment from reality your philosophy and atheism leads into.

I noticed you did not really refute my examples above. Via your standard any horror if accepted by a society becomes "good" and the perpetrators of said horror are "good people". With this standard you are lost in a morass of relativism a natural consequence of rejecting the divine.



You lack an understanding of the pivotal role of the Judeo-Christian tradition in facilitating coordination and driving progress over time.

I discussed this topic in some depth here:
Religion and Progress


You were raised religious and brought up to accept and worship God. You and later rejected both that tradition and God. We have real issues of dispute we should not waste our time on word games.

Let's see so according to your logic:

The Soviet Gestapo who forceably resettled presents to collective farms in 1932 leading to the starvation of 8 million were swell folks because they were following the Soviet code.

The Nazi's guards who starved and gassed millions were great guys too because Hitler was elected and widely admired and supported by the German People.

According to you these folks were paragons of virtue following the moral code their societies accepted at the time.

Similarly if you can get a majority to support your desired re-education camps and book burnings that will be great too. I think I understand you better now.


Here is a short video that describes your fundamental problem. You have rejected God, and without God one can no longer properly define good and evil.
Can You Be Good Without God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxiAikEk2vU

That still doesn't mean anything lmao. That's not a way to discover what's real and what's not. Just because the harry potter book was sold more than ''insert other book'' doesn't mean harry potter is real.

The fact that people read and distribute books isn't the important part. The important part is twofold:
1. The rate;
2. The results with people.

God is expanding the bible at a fabulous rate beyond the natural rate. People are helping with this expansion by being touched by god to be part of it.

Science books in the dust.

Empirical results from quantum mechanics are objective observations. The fact that you choose to dismiss the logical implications of the those observations highlights your bias.


Thanks for the armchair psychoanalysis. I functioned very well as a atheist in society for decades most of my adult life in fact. I abandoned that position once it became apparent that it was logically untenable.


Ahh and who gets to decide who the innately good people are?

Who gets to decide who to sent to those re-education camps you want and what books need burning. You because of your innate goodness?

This is an amazing experience! Wananavu99, thank you for sharing

Actually, the Bible is the most printed, sold, and distributed book out there. Why have you moved on, away from the truth?

Put simply it gives life purpose. Without purpose there is no punishment for immoral action and no reward for moral action.

The falseness of materialism is not just a philosophical argument it is the most logical interpretation of multiple and repeated scientific experiments.

Modern science provides powerful evidence against the materialist worldview. This summary of recent scientific studies highlights this and is worth watching if you were not aware of this.

Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

Materialist cling to false notions of an independent physical reality. They do this because once you realizes that materialism is false a theistic view of world logically follows.

I never used to believe there was a God, during my second year of pre-med I got to a very low point in my life where I was drinking so much, had so many relationships that didn't last a couple of days, I was so depressed and ending it sounded like the only logical thing to do.  Yet, in this the most dire moment of my life my whole body started to feel enveloped by unfathomable love, unadulterated love beyond anything I can explain.  I was wrapped up in it and I had an otter body experience where I heard a voice tell me that I'm loved more than anything in the world.  God knows all, even down to the tiniest particle and all is God.  I felt no judgement or condemnation for my actions, this feeling covered or enveloped me till I was so happy that I couldn't speak and tears ran down my eyes.  Next thing I knew the sun started to rise and it was morning.  That day I went home and sank to my knees praying for help.  The next several months wasn't easy, but I cleaned up, took a year off school and just wanted to help people.  I cannot explain what happened to me, it was surreal, I was beyond words.  I was an Atheist and now I'm a believer, not of any religious thought or doctrine but of Love.  I learned that God is love and that's it. 

I am simply highlighting your self-imposed miosis. You base your determination of objective facts on your materialism yet refuse to consider challenges to that materialist foundation.

Your concerns about religious tyranny in a theocratic state are of course valid. Humans corrupt every institution we partake in and vesting ultimate state power in any centralized church run by man can lead to no outcome other then eventual corruption of said church and tyranny. The founders of the US understood this well which is why they both guaranteed religious freedom and prohibited an official state religion in the first amendment of the constitution.


You appear to have bought into the progressive delusion that humans are basically good and if we all just embrace our inner humanity we can all sing songs together in harmony.

The reality is that humans are not inherently good. We are innately infused with great evil. That ultimately is part of the message of the Old Testament you so misunderstand. It tells us that all humans even the best of us are inherently flawed and capable of great evil. It also lays out a framework via which said evils can be mitigated and perhaps someday rectified.

You are already on record as in favor of forcibly removing children from the homes of religious parents and placing them in re-education camps. Now you want book burnings too? You will make a good foot soldier when the next tyranny rises its head.


You sound like one of the scientists who loudly proclaimed space was full of Luminiferous Aether or the confident proponent of Phrenology standing tall with his tape measure.

The reality is that your firm foundation of facts are not nearly as certain as you proclaim.

1. Earth is not flat.

The entire universe including the Earth might be flat.
Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe
https://m.phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html

2. Earth is billions of years old.

Time itself may be an illusion and the age of the earth depends on your frame of reference.
TIME is an ILLUSION
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYZQxMowBsw

3. Nobody created the universe or life on Earth.

This is your religion and your conclusion has not been proven by science nor does it have anything to do with science.

It also says god ordered people to kill other people because they were doing things on the sabbath, why are you attempting to ignore this?

That's why the Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." The word "kill" really means "murder" in modern English. "Kill" is from the old English. So, why are you attempting to act so ignorantly?

Someone that is dead cannot have a better life, badecker, study some biology. People murdered definitely did not have an easier life, they had an easier death in any case.

Actually, they wouldn't. Why? Because the O.T. teaching made life easier on them.

''You talk so silly. The general structure of the O.T. was for the best benefit of the people of that day'' Tell that to the slaves and people murdered for picking up sticks on the sabbath lol. I'm sure they would disagree with you.

You almost sound like you haven't heard about what American soldiers do around the world all the time. Or about all the court cases that promote all kinds of things. Or about all the laws in the States; like the ones in all the States that talk about marrying age for boys and girls: https://family.findlaw.com/marriage/state-by-state-marriage-age-of-consent-laws.html. And this stuff is going on today, in the USA. Not way back whenever, when the circumstances and customs of society were way different.

You talk so silly. The general structure of the O.T. was for the best benefit of the people of that day. But they show what is best at the same time. You simply take it all out of context so that you don't have to understand.

You can't receive the best benefit when you leave God out of the equation, or out of your life.

I agree, most Christians are sensible people, and they read the bible, so the bible is not corrupting them.

Yes, most christians are sensible people but they have to ignore big chunks of story in the bible. The bible talks about slavery and rape, even allows it, the bible even allows murder. They have to come up with excuses because they know the bible is wrong so they say things like: ''Oh but that's the old testament'' ''it doesn't count''